GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Yeah and make stamina dw the most useless weapon choice ever in pvp.... the 2nd slot is what makes slotting dw even worth it.

You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called Lich, Clever Alch, Armor Master. All thats limited is 1 of your 5 piece sets that must be this to achieve but you cant have it all op.

Oh poor DW. It will hurt their feelings being used less in PvP. DW lives matters right.
/s

Also let me edit your statement:
"You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called being limied to few sets in game where there are hundreds"

Hundreds of sets yet only like 15 are used in pve and pvp.

So? Even with 15 sets you can make 105 combinations. With 3 back bar sets you can only make 45.

Not to mention how this number is actually bigger than 15 in PVP. There are 4,950 combinations of 100 sets yet only 300 with 3 backbar sets.

Sorry thought you were discreditting that you have options for 2h/bow, resto/destro 5 5 2.

I dont understand why this thread topic always pops up. Like you said there are still loads of combos that can do it.

Oh I was never discrediting you dont have options. I was only pointing out how those options are limited. This topic pops up because nothing changed since last time it popped out. And ZoS needs to be constantly reminded about this issue. At least until they definitely say no.

Trexton wrote: »

I really want to make a full Magicka Ice Warden Tank, but sadly that will never be possible with the current set bonuses counting the Ice staff as only one piece of the set piece instead of two because it takes both slots.would of loved this set up if only an ice staff would count as two of the five set pieces.

5x Jewelry X3 and Staff X2 - Ebony
5x Robes of the Hist - head and shoulders
2x Blood Spawn , Heavy Helm and Medium Shoulders

But sadly with that pesky staff only counting as on an Ice Staff tank is almost impossible​ to make a main tank for vet trials​. I'm sure I could lose the monster set and tank all vet dungeons but I don't think I could tank vet trials.

What do you all think?

This request comes up pretty regularly on this forum, and each time it's a correct request.

The game simply needs to balance sets so that all equipment types can complete them.

Crazy people who are against this request will claim that 2-handed weapons are somehow intrinsically better than single-hand weapons. This is nonsensical. One vs two-handed weapons were not balanced around potential set completions. The number of combinations they would have to account for would make the balancing problem intractable.

I list three solutions:

- Simply count 2-handed weapons as two set items, and reduce their drop rate while increasing crafting materials.
- Count one-handed weapons/shield as half of a set item (this would make them equal to 2-handed weapons)
- Create a new item type for each 2-handed weapon, that acts as an off-hand for set completion.

Obviously the first solution is the most straightforward, balanced, and requires very little work by Zenimax.

FlyLionel wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

Speak of the devil

I was thinking of you

FlyLionel wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

But vma lightning staff+master resto with spc and seducer sounds good to me...and every other bis healer.

Okay, healers need to heal before they can acquire the BIS. what about everyone who is gearing up to get the best?

Are you kidding me? Are you just asking that because you literally do not understand PVE or because you want to prove your point without actually being in the field? Let me explain it to you this way, in PVE it's not like PVP where your healing is reduced. In PVE someone can be at 1% health and it's a one shot heal..don't believe me? Fine, two shot heal MAX. What about everyone who is gearing up to get the best? Um..okay well not even BIS healers spec into super hardcore high BOL tooltip heals because it's useless when healing is this strong in PVE. So what next? Sustain? Okay, so all of the new people gearing up to be the best, spec into sustain and slap on a utility set like worm while you're at it because once you reach Moksha with recovery absolutely no one is going to spec into anything but utility.

TL;DR Healers don't need 5/5/2 they are perfectly fine. Don't believe me? Well go play a healer with some random build like 5 seducers 2 engine guardian 3 willpower random staffs, go do a vet dungeon(not dlc dungeon, that's endgame) and ask your group how you did. No, you cannot heal one shots so those don't count.

@max_only You still want healers to be able to go 5/5/2 with destro/resto? If so please tell me why and how they are at a disadvantage.

Take it easy bro.

Giving people build options doesn't sour the milk.

Maybe "need" was the wrong word.

(I only play healer or tank in any game btw and I do just fine pugging with my off-meta healbot)

Healers *would like* to have this option, it's not just pvpers looking to be gods of war.

Better now? Geesh.

They should make 2 handed weapons count if you have 3 pieces already.

Afraid I don't believe this is a good idea. There has to be trade offs. If you want the power of the two handed, you lose the slot for a set. That's really only fair. And from what I've seen tonight, two handed isn't lacking use. People are still choosing it over one handed weapons. Though I wouldn't be opposed to daggers getting a stamina heal

Trexton wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

where is the 'beating a dead horse' picture when you need it?

is it really that hard to use the Search function to find the 5,482,368,452 other threads about this topic?

Just commenting to comment and get that attention, stay thirsty my friend.

so that's a NO on the 'search' function? that's what I thought. This topic has been discussed over and over and over with little to no comments from ZOS other than "we are considering it....".

You only need to spend a small amount of effort to find all of the arguments for and against it.....but I guess that is too much to ask

Just change it so that it is a 5 SLOT bonus instead of a 5 PIECE bonus whereby 2 handers utilize 2 slots.
And for the love of God and Money make it so staffs give more spell damage than dual wielding, maybe factor staffs as 1.2 x tooltip for spell damage and 0.8 x tooltip for weapon damage to make them weaker for weapon damage to balance the use.

MacCait wrote: »

NO!

This would be a bad move, and it makes no logical sense. It is only proposed by two handed wielders who want EVERYTHING.

Actually I don't run 2 hand builds but would like to, I refuse to give up the 5 slot bonus. Even my magicka characters run
dual wield for the added spell damage and 5th slot bonus. Thats just dumb, but it is most beneficial

Dual wield and sword and board have two pieces because the user has two weapons. The user has to CRAFT two weapons, UPGRADE two weapons, put ENCHANTMENTS on two weapons.

And this is difficult how?

Two hands are NOT the same as two weapons. That is a very silly and illogical argument!

Two handers require 2 hands (2 slots) same as dual wield or sword and board

Two handed is already very powerful. It has Rally, giving a self heal., or can give you a purge by using forward momentum. This in my opinion is already an overpowered bonus. How does a weapon heal you?? But it does... so be it. Dual wield and sword and board does not have a self heal. So if the argument is simply 'This does this, so that should do that'... then arguably in this track of ilogical thought, duel wield should also get a self heal.

Dual wield has 2 self heals

In PvP, most people use two-handed. Why? Because it has the self heal, becuase it can knockback, and because it has an execute. Two handed is a much more powerful weapon than dueal wield. If ZOS make it count as two pieces, it creates an inbalance. There would be absoluetely no reason to duel wield.

Any thougths as to 2 handed staffs or is this strictly from a stam build standpoint? Especially with this meta where
heavy attack staffs are going to be a large part of magicka sustain.

This whole argument seems to be based on a greedy approach of wanting everything. This proposed change would not be a good change and would not benefit the game overal.


It creates more options without penalizing for going 1 way instead of the other. The 5th bonus is what makes the set.

Leave it as it is. I use both on different characters. I don't see a reasonable argument why it should be changed.

Ranger209 wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

NO!

This would be a bad move, and it makes no logical sense. It is only proposed by two handed wielders who want EVERYTHING.

Actually I don't run 2 hand builds but would like to, I refuse to give up the 5 slot bonus. Even my magicka characters run
dual wield for the added spell damage and 5th slot bonus. Thats just dumb, but it is most beneficial

Dual wield and sword and board have two pieces because the user has two weapons. The user has to CRAFT two weapons, UPGRADE two weapons, put ENCHANTMENTS on two weapons.

And this is difficult how?

Two hands are NOT the same as two weapons. That is a very silly and illogical argument!

Two handers require 2 hands (2 slots) same as dual wield or sword and board

Two handed is already very powerful. It has Rally, giving a self heal., or can give you a purge by using forward momentum. This in my opinion is already an overpowered bonus. How does a weapon heal you?? But it does... so be it. Dual wield and sword and board does not have a self heal. So if the argument is simply 'This does this, so that should do that'... then arguably in this track of ilogical thought, duel wield should also get a self heal.

Dual wield has 2 self heals

In PvP, most people use two-handed. Why? Because it has the self heal, becuase it can knockback, and because it has an execute. Two handed is a much more powerful weapon than dueal wield. If ZOS make it count as two pieces, it creates an inbalance. There would be absoluetely no reason to duel wield.

Any thougths as to 2 handed staffs or is this strictly from a stam build standpoint? Especially with this meta where
heavy attack staffs are going to be a large part of magicka sustain.

This whole argument seems to be based on a greedy approach of wanting everything. This proposed change would not be a good change and would not benefit the game overal.


It creates more options without penalizing for going 1 way instead of the other. The 5th bonus is what makes the set.

Leave it as it is. I use both on different characters. I don't see a reasonable argument why it should be changed.

Hi Ranger209.

When qouting, it is better to qoute individual qoutes rather than adding your own comments that then appear with the qoute, as in this case it then appears as though you are saying I said all of that when in fact you have added your comments. Just a tip.

Ranger209 wrote: »

b]And this is difficult how?[/b]

I never said it was difficult. That is your comment. I am saying it's different and more costly to craft. Suggesting that a two-handed weapon should hold two slots is not right as you cannot compare it to two ACTUAL weapons that have been crafted. UNLESS, in FAIRNESS, you are forced to create two two-handed weapons... but even then it would not make sense.

Ranger209 wrote: »

Two handers require 2 hands (2 slots) same as dual wield or sword and board

No, it does not. Two-handed requires one slot, not two. It just means you cannot equip a second weapon as you second hand is being occupied by holding a much larger and heavier weapon.

Ranger209 wrote: »

b]Dual wield has 2 self heals[/b]

No, that's not quite correct. It's not the same. The heals you speak of are 1) an attack, and 2) an ultimate attack. You cannot just self heal at any given moment. Only the two-handed can do that. You also cannot purge. In order for you to heal, you would either have to attack someone with the skill or use up an ultimate (both risking further incoming damage within combat). So no it's not the same as a 'self-heal'.

Ranger209 wrote: »

It creates more options without penalizing for going 1 way instead of the other. The 5th bonus is what makes the set.]

It is incorrect to suggest a player is being "penialized".

Yes I get that the 5th bonus is what makes the set, and that this would create more options... but it would not make sense. For example, if you have one heavy two-handed weapon, wether a staff or sword, hammer, or axe... it is going to require you to hold it with two hands. If however you had two lighter weapons, such as daggers, swords etc... you can hold one in each hand, thus giving you an extra slot to which can affect a set gear combination, thus allowing you to run two 5 sets. The argument for allowing everyone to have two 5 sets is nice sure, but it doesn't make sense, and would be unfair considering there is more cost in crafting for duel wielders. So the argument seems invalid.

max_only wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

Speak of the devil

I was thinking of you

FlyLionel wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

But vma lightning staff+master resto with spc and seducer sounds good to me...and every other bis healer.

Okay, healers need to heal before they can acquire the BIS. what about everyone who is gearing up to get the best?

Are you kidding me? Are you just asking that because you literally do not understand PVE or because you want to prove your point without actually being in the field? Let me explain it to you this way, in PVE it's not like PVP where your healing is reduced. In PVE someone can be at 1% health and it's a one shot heal..don't believe me? Fine, two shot heal MAX. What about everyone who is gearing up to get the best? Um..okay well not even BIS healers spec into super hardcore high BOL tooltip heals because it's useless when healing is this strong in PVE. So what next? Sustain? Okay, so all of the new people gearing up to be the best, spec into sustain and slap on a utility set like worm while you're at it because once you reach Moksha with recovery absolutely no one is going to spec into anything but utility.

TL;DR Healers don't need 5/5/2 they are perfectly fine. Don't believe me? Well go play a healer with some random build like 5 seducers 2 engine guardian 3 willpower random staffs, go do a vet dungeon(not dlc dungeon, that's endgame) and ask your group how you did. No, you cannot heal one shots so those don't count.

@max_only You still want healers to be able to go 5/5/2 with destro/resto? If so please tell me why and how they are at a disadvantage.

Take it easy bro.

Giving people build options doesn't sour the milk.

Maybe "need" was the wrong word.

(I only play healer or tank in any game btw and I do just fine pugging with my off-meta healbot)

Healers *would like* to have this option, it's not just pvpers looking to be gods of war.

Better now? Geesh.

Don't take it the wrong way; i'm just speaking the truth. I am cool. You can have all the build options in the world but there comes a point where balance has to come in as a factor, and that completely stops this argument as a whole. Basically you don't want a lot of sugar in your milk, right?

Endgame gear like VMA weapons(2h mainly) and Master weapons(Resto) will no longer be BIS and will need a rework, this means Zos will have to prioritize old content-->Not realistic. If you truly want a change you can't switch from healers needing something to now 'would like'. At the same time since it is no longer 'need' and just 'would like' tells me that this is clearly nothing serious to continue further. Is that all?

SPC/Mending and 2pc engine guardian/sentinel/troll king while using destro and resto? What happens to the current healers who go DW or Sword and shield losing elemental drain/destro ult sacrificing to get that particular build? There needs to be a trade off.

It's also not about 'better now?' I'm trying to explain why it's not a good for the game if you just implement it without a thorough plan. You say you're a healer so you should understand.

Edit: 4p sets sound good btw, that will bring more build options.

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

It's Fine As It Is

No Change Needed

This is a non-issue

QFE

Because Bad Idea is Bad

If you want a two-set bonus then use either two weapons or a one-handed weapon and shield

It's that simple

Step 1. Code it so that a player can only have one Undaunted Monster effect at any 1 time.
Step 2. Introduce Undaunted Monster Weapons, these represent every 1 handed weapon, every 2 handed weapon, and shield. One of these would be equal to both the helm and shoulder pieces for buffs (i.e. all the 2 piece buffs rolled into one).

Result: DW and SnB Players can continue to use the Monster helm and shoulder configuration that they are comfortable with, or can use the 11 piece format to wear two 5 piece sets and one extra piece.

Bonus: DW and SnB will benefit from being able to use a VMA or Master weapon with the new Undaunted weapons which will give them a bonus over 2H users. 2h players can now equip two 5 piece sets but give up the opportunity to use a master or maelstrom weapon in order to do so.

Added bonus, weapon swap would also afford the opportunity for Undaunted Monster Buff swap.

The real issue going forward will be magicka builds and sustain. You need a 2h staff to recover magicka thru heavy attacks. There are way more options for a stam build that still allow 5-5-2 bonuses than there are for magicka builds with heavy attack sustain. Can yo do it? Yes, but only by utilizing a few specific armor sets, the options to do so are significantly less for magicka. I have 11 toons and enjoy both, but always feel more pigeon-holed armor wise with the mag builds.