Please make two handed weapons count as two set bonuses!

MagicalSociety

I really want to make a full Magicka Ice Warden Tank, but sadly that will never be possible with the current set bonuses counting the Ice staff as only one piece of the set piece instead of two because it takes both slots.would of loved this set up if only an ice staff would count as two of the five set pieces.

5x Jewelry X3 and Staff X2 - Ebony
5x Robes of the Hist - head and shoulders
2x Blood Spawn , Heavy Helm and Medium Shoulders

But sadly with that pesky staff only counting as on an Ice Staff tank is almost impossible​ to make a main tank for vet trials​. I'm sure I could lose the monster set and tank all vet dungeons but I don't think I could tank vet trials.

What do you all think?

Sheezabeast

Why doesn't Zos just make 4 piece sets. Problem solved.

MagicalSociety

Because people could end up with three 4 piece sets if they made all 5 piece four instead. That would be way OP. But it wouldn't do anything other than level the playing field to make 2H weapons count as two pieces that fill both weapon slots on each bar and give the same bonuses as someone that duel wields.

TheShadowScout

Trexton wrote: »

Please make two handed weapons count as two set bonuses!

Yeah, sure.
You may have noticed, two-handed weapons have other advantages to balance the lack of a second set bonis count... like additional damage per blow for two-handed, and range for bow and staff...
...and now you are asking to keep those advantages, yet also gain a second set bonus??? Level the playing field indeed, when two handed stuff has -all- the advantages, riiiight.

Suuure.

What would you suggest one-handed and shield and dual wield users get as bonus to balance things again, hmm? Raising their damage to 2H levels, so all the melee weapons are the same? Where would be the fun in that, I ask ye?

The system is set up that you have to make choices, instead of being able to have it all in every way. That's the point! That's the fun, in choosing either this, or that extra advantage, buit not both. Just like you have to make choices in your active skill selections.

Like in this case. You can have either two five piece sets with two-handed wearpons, or one five piece set, one monster set, and one three piece weapon set (like endurance/agility/willpower) - but not two five piece sets and one monster set, that only works with S&B and DW, which have other drawbacks compared to having a two-handed weapon, mainly lack of ranged normal attacks or a buit less oomph behind your blows. As intended.

And you will have to make that choice, instead of asking for a change in the rules that gives you all the advantages.

MagicalSociety

Sadly that's why you will never see a Magika built tank and Ice staff will remain useless. Because Ice staff are so op. LMAO! Without it being a two piece it's absolute junk. And even a sword and board can out DPS a Ice staff. DW compared to an Ice staff. You test that out buddy and let me know how it works out for ya! Lol

Shadow_Viper_vX

It's Fine As It Is

No Change Needed

This is a non-issue

max_only

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

Browiseth

here's a gif of a popular quote to properly express my feelings on this thread

mandricus

Both of you are saying true things. Having 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces would unbalance things for DD builds. Having Frost Staves counting as 1 piece makes them unviable to run an end game tank build (every tank build has 2sets + a monster set). Since they are unviable also for any magicka DDs at the moment, I would say that frost staves in their current state are pretty useless, just another wasted slot (adding them to the skills that need reworking, useless passives, useless morphs and so on.... "build diversity" they say... I Wonder if any ESO developer has ever tried to complete VMOL or VSO as main tank with a Frost staff tank)

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

Speak of the devil

MagicalSociety

This so needs to happen and to the dude that was saying "You may have noticed, two-handed weapons have other advantages to balance the lack of a second set bonus count... like additional damage per blow for two-handed, and range for bow and staff..." Now add both your weapons up and stop being slow, you'll figure out the only difference is one takes two slots and the other takes one. Use some common sense and a very little intelligence to see. It would be awesome for everyone.

Anunakis

2h has slower attacks then dual wield, bow is useless except sniping from the castles and still worse then some of staves ,

so rebalancing dual wield with 2 handed weapons could be not even nice more then that or just add another slot for thing like ring or bracelet just for 2h weapon

Stovahkiin

Here we go again

Browiseth wrote: »

here's a gif of a popular quote to properly express my feelings on this thread

^

Royaji

Two-handed weapons are one item. They should not be counted as two items. Because one is not two. Simple.

Tanking monster sets are average at best. Drop bloodspawn, equip one piece chokethorn/shadowrend. Here you go. 5/5/1 setup for an ice tank. Still not viable for anything other than vet dungeons (because of the stupid heavy attack taunt and no defensive bonuses on the staff) but still. Lacking 5/5/2 is not your issue. The overall uselessness of ice staff is.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yeah and make stamina dw the most useless weapon choice ever in pvp.... the 2nd slot is what makes slotting dw even worth it.

You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called Lich, Clever Alch, Armor Master. All thats limited is 1 of your 5 piece sets that must be this to achieve but you cant have it all op.

SodanTok

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Yeah and make stamina dw the most useless weapon choice ever in pvp.... the 2nd slot is what makes slotting dw even worth it.

You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called Lich, Clever Alch, Armor Master. All thats limited is 1 of your 5 piece sets that must be this to achieve but you cant have it all op.

Oh poor DW. It will hurt their feelings being used less in PvP. DW lives matters right.
/s

Also let me edit your statement:
"You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called being limied to few sets in game where there are hundreds"

STEVIL

Trexton wrote: »

Because people could end up with three 4 piece sets if they made all 5 piece four instead. That would be way OP. But it wouldn't do anything other than level the playing field to make 2H weapons count as two pieces that fill both weapon slots on each bar and give the same bonuses as someone that duel wields.

uhhh... so a 2pc monster set and two 5pc sets is fine but three 4pc sets is "way OP?"

three four piece sets would get you THREE end-set bonuses and SIX 2-3pc bonuses.
the 5-5-2 gets you THREE end-set bonuses (one is monster) and SEVEN 1-2-3-4pc bonuses

Where exactly is the "way OP" in that?

Suggestion i have been making for some time is to allow crafters to remove one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from crafted sets at crafting. this would get you your "two sets plus monster" and give crafteds their own unique capabilities to help offset the drops uniques (jewelry, 2pc monsters, 1-2pc arena weapons, etc)

but 2H has benefits all its own that help offset the set differences.

Also consider...

The set combo you mention is "best" for a DW or sword and shield type character.

On the other hand, if you use backbar a set like warlock or lich, you can wear 1pc lich armor, 3 pc lich jewelry and a backbar staff lich, then have your other pieces be another 5pc set (front bar) and the monster pair.

Since lich and warlock have long cooldowns and you just need to be on them for a second to trigger their 5pc benefit, you can effectively get the benefits of 5-5-2 even with staves.

So having the staff only count as one, it makes some sets better for staves and bows and 2h while other sets are better for dw and sword/shield.

Net result, a slight nudge to diversity in sets played. Not all sets are equally good with all weapons... choices matter.

GreenSoup2HoT

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Yeah and make stamina dw the most useless weapon choice ever in pvp.... the 2nd slot is what makes slotting dw even worth it.

You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called Lich, Clever Alch, Armor Master. All thats limited is 1 of your 5 piece sets that must be this to achieve but you cant have it all op.

Oh poor DW. It will hurt their feelings being used less in PvP. DW lives matters right.
/s

Also let me edit your statement:
"You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called being limied to few sets in game where there are hundreds"

Hundreds of sets yet only like 15 are used in pve and pvp.

Queo

Trexton wrote: »

This so needs to happen and to the dude that was saying "You may have noticed, two-handed weapons have other advantages to balance the lack of a second set bonus count... like additional damage per blow for two-handed, and range for bow and staff..." Now add both your weapons up and stop being slow, you'll figure out the only difference is one takes two slots and the other takes one. Use some common sense and a very little intelligence to see. It would be awesome for everyone.

lol I was going to ask how much DMG difference the really was...

The other advantage is in upgrading cost. much cheaper for 2 handers... although i'd gladly play 2 as much in upgrade items to have a 2 count as 2 effect...

oh and it be easier to find a 2 head weapon to complete set bonus... again id gladly trade...

DurzoBlint13

where is the 'beating a dead horse' picture when you need it?

is it really that hard to use the Search function to find the 5,482,368,452 other threads about this topic?

MagicalSociety

Just have two handed weapons take both slots instead of having an empty and only count it as two if it takes both slots. Some people will say no just to say no and will cry just to cry. This is the only option to have a Magika tank be possible.

McCracken79

All they have to do is give magicka users a new weapon that counts as two like a wand and orb like in Diablo 3. Not sure if it fits into Elder Scrolls lore. Actually this should have been in the game from the start for better balance.

MagicalSociety

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

where is the 'beating a dead horse' picture when you need it?

is it really that hard to use the Search function to find the 5,482,368,452 other threads about this topic?

Just commenting to comment and get that attention, stay thirsty my friend.

SodanTok

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Yeah and make stamina dw the most useless weapon choice ever in pvp.... the 2nd slot is what makes slotting dw even worth it.

You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called Lich, Clever Alch, Armor Master. All thats limited is 1 of your 5 piece sets that must be this to achieve but you cant have it all op.

Oh poor DW. It will hurt their feelings being used less in PvP. DW lives matters right.
/s

Also let me edit your statement:
"You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called being limied to few sets in game where there are hundreds"

Hundreds of sets yet only like 15 are used in pve and pvp.

So? Even with 15 sets you can make 105 combinations. With 3 back bar sets you can only make 45.

Not to mention how this number is actually bigger than 15 in PVP. There are 4,950 combinations of 100 sets yet only 300 with 3 backbar sets.

GrigorijMalahevich

Haha, my magdk has 4 sets (willpower only two items 5+5+2+2

P.S. I still think two handed sets need to count as two items, it is just common sense, but then VMA and Master weapons need a serious buff and you will need double the resources to craft two hand weapons and double the tannins for upgrade...

Uriel_Nocturne

Let's see...

Having Two-hand weapons count as two Set pieces would:
- Allow Two-hand characters be equal with Dual Wielders
- Would allow for greater build diversity as it would open up more Sets (both Crafted and Monster Drop) for Player use
- Would theoretically allow Players to utilize greater build diversity to expand upon an increase in Two-hand Build viability.
- Allow for Two-hand users to theoretically reclaim greater resource returns per attack/proc based upon a larger pool of viable Sets.

Compare that against the Update that:
- All-but removed Cost Reduction from the game.
- Nigh-completely removed Player self-sustain from the game.
- Severely gimped combat to all but require the frequent use of slow, unwieldy Heavy Attacks
- Decreased the viability of "end-game" Sets so that the new Morrowind Sets look arbitrarily more attractive.

So, yeah... letting Two-hand weapons count as two Set pieces would increase Player diversity and options, and ZOS is dead-set on making sure that you play the game exactly how Wrobel thinks you should be playing it, including pigeon-holing every player into set archetypes for what Magicka/Stamina character should be in his mind.

So, since that change would go against the company philosophy of "Always gimp the Player, NEVER make the Player stronger", it likely won't get changed.

FlyLionel

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

But vma lightning staff+master resto with spc and seducer sounds good to me...and every other bis healer.

max_only

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

Speak of the devil

I was thinking of you

FlyLionel wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

But vma lightning staff+master resto with spc and seducer sounds good to me...and every other bis healer.

Okay, healers need to heal before they can acquire the BIS. what about everyone who is gearing up to get the best?

GreenSoup2HoT

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Yeah and make stamina dw the most useless weapon choice ever in pvp.... the 2nd slot is what makes slotting dw even worth it.

You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called Lich, Clever Alch, Armor Master. All thats limited is 1 of your 5 piece sets that must be this to achieve but you cant have it all op.

Oh poor DW. It will hurt their feelings being used less in PvP. DW lives matters right.
/s

Also let me edit your statement:
"You can use 5/5/2 with 2h/bow or resto/destro. Its called being limied to few sets in game where there are hundreds"

Hundreds of sets yet only like 15 are used in pve and pvp.

So? Even with 15 sets you can make 105 combinations. With 3 back bar sets you can only make 45.

Not to mention how this number is actually bigger than 15 in PVP. There are 4,950 combinations of 100 sets yet only 300 with 3 backbar sets.

Sorry thought you were discreditting that you have options for 2h/bow, resto/destro 5 5 2.

I dont understand why this thread topic always pops up. Like you said there are still loads of combos that can do it.

FlyLionel

max_only wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

Speak of the devil

I was thinking of you

FlyLionel wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Those naysayers are just pvpers.

Healers need this change too, not just wrecking blow spammers.

But vma lightning staff+master resto with spc and seducer sounds good to me...and every other bis healer.

Okay, healers need to heal before they can acquire the BIS. what about everyone who is gearing up to get the best?

Are you kidding me? Are you just asking that because you literally do not understand PVE or because you want to prove your point without actually being in the field? Let me explain it to you this way, in PVE it's not like PVP where your healing is reduced. In PVE someone can be at 1% health and it's a one shot heal..don't believe me? Fine, two shot heal MAX. What about everyone who is gearing up to get the best? Um..okay well not even BIS healers spec into super hardcore high BOL tooltip heals because it's useless when healing is this strong in PVE. So what next? Sustain? Okay, so all of the new people gearing up to be the best, spec into sustain and slap on a utility set like worm while you're at it because once you reach Moksha with recovery absolutely no one is going to spec into anything but utility.

TL;DR Healers don't need 5/5/2 they are perfectly fine. Don't believe me? Well go play a healer with some random build like 5 seducers 2 engine guardian 3 willpower random staffs, go do a vet dungeon(not dlc dungeon, that's endgame) and ask your group how you did. No, you cannot heal one shots so those don't count.

@max_only You still want healers to be able to go 5/5/2 with destro/resto? If so please tell me why and how they are at a disadvantage.

JiKama

I was just thinking about this earlier. Why is it with two daggers I get two set pieces. With my greatsword it takes to hands to hold it, but only get one passive for the set. Really the only reason I ever dual wield. Doesn't seem well thought out. But ayeeee.... I just play the lute and greet others as they arrive in Seyda Neen