I think I figured out why people [including myself] stop playing this game eventually

Mutagem · May 2017

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

SquareSausage · May 2017

Its also an MMO, so try group content, youll be grinding for gear until youre CP1000 and beyond.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

Ironically, gear has never been the predominant driver. I've always felt player skill was more important personally. There's nothing rewarding about 'building' the unstoppable force that lets you gain victory while hands free and clicking a button with your big toe. I realize that is hyperbole, but the point I think is made. Horizontal development to me is what can keep a game interesting, which is why I am really disheartened that Spellcrafting was dumped onto the back burner. There are so many ways that they could develop horizontal development. Legerdemain was one of those ways, so is TG, DB, etc... At any regard I'm not entirely sure I agree about gear. In terms of the way gear is handled in ESO, it is actually one of my least favorite parts of the game. I don't like the way helmets lock you in, I don't like the way you're forced to hodgepodge things stylistically, I don't like the very notion of sets. I'd rather we could slot in unique traits or qualities via the crafting system. I'd rather we had gear that wore out and needed upkeep and eventual replacement. I'd rather if dungeons dropped required materials for certain traits, that those pieces could be traded and crafted by all with the appropriate skill to acquire and the players to craft. See the way Star Wars Galaxies was when it was good to understand what I'm talking about.

Galwylin · May 2017

I figured once everything was level equal, we'd see a lot of the normal progression in these type games disappear. No matter what, you're never going to grow once you top out your CP160 in terms of gear. From then its just getting specific items of gear. The additional cp offer some progression but to the overall world, you're still that level 8 toon that wander off an island somewhere. Just a bit more health and skills. Even your former island has kept pace with you. I'm not sure what's going to happen for me once I have every quest done since I'm not big on farming. I'll probably be wearing the same crafted gear I have been with maybe some off pieces changed out. It sounds rather grindy. Thankfully I still have almost two complete Alliances to go on the character I've progressed the most.

Emothic · May 2017

For me is when the developers try to push for a full Non-CP PvP campaigns. The day that happens is the day I stop playing the game. Or at least untill the re-release CP campaigns.

CoyoteNZ · May 2017

Never was really a gear collector myself, but like getting as much crafting ability as possible.

I play hard for a burst, then burn out on a game.

I find it best for me to rotate games; so when I'm starting to get burnt out I go to my next fav game, and when I burn out move again.

I've just come back after six months, so lots of new stuff, housing etc. plus have 10k crowns in store because I never stopped my subscription.

I wonder what Elite Dangerous will be up to when I rotate back in four or five months.

I found ESO good, as I was able to come back and didn't take to long to relearn and get back to where I was, but all fresh.

I took GTA-OL off my rotation as I couldn't even figure out how to drive my car and get back to racing before being blown up five times. That's all it took to r move from the list.

So for me...

- keep developing so new stuff when I come back
- Make it so my old characters aren't completely useless when I come back
- Easy learning curve on return

idk · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

The game is part TES and part MMO. The exploration in the game is very similar to previous TES games. However, part of the game involves other players such as dungeons, trials, vDSA and AvA, soon to be Batlegrounds.

If you want challenging single player content that is vMaelstrom Arena. Normal is fairly easy, vet offers a worthy challenge. For open world, MMOs generally do not have challenging content because what is challenging for one player is a push over for others, hence content like vMA and the group content mentioned above.

From your post you have barely scratched the surface concerning end game.

IcyDeadPeople · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

My experience when I play the single player TES games is quite different. I don't care about the best gear, in fact I enjoy those games much more when you are struggling to survive with some crappy iron sword. I usually delete a character and start over whenever the combat starts to become too easy. It's more about the experience of playing the role, wandering around the world, getting into tough fights and choosing to go wherever and do whatever I think that character would do.

I started out playing ESO like that during the beta but after I tried PVP I got hooked on it. From that point, I just wanted to get the best gear possible in order to do better in PVP. Something about the sandbox environment of Cyrodiil feels a bit more like the single player TES games compared to the PVE zones.

Ignotus · May 2017

I think I figured out why people [including myself] stop playing this game eventually

I'm about to blow some minds here, but I think the answer is pretty simple:
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Knootewoot · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

So you played Skyrim and found the best gear and then you decided you beat the game?

I'm sorry. I play RPG's for the story and exploration. I never played any RPG, single or multiplayer, for gear progression. I don't even understand the idea someone plays a game just for getting better gear. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

Lord-Otto · May 2017

When they increase max gear level from 160, forcing me to kiss my 300+ hours of farming goodbye and to do it again. That's when I'll conclude I could rather spend the time on having fun and that's when I'll fall behind. I will quit then.

Bringer · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously.

Since when?
Thats not even a blanket true statement for mmo progression systems, as there are and have been plenty of mmos that dont use gear as their primary means of character progression. This is true for some older mmos of the pre-eq era, intermediate mmos like city of heroes/villians who didnt even have equipment in that sense, as well as some still currently running mmos such as, say, EVE, where character progression is time based and you regularly lose your 'gear' all the time.

Gear based progression is just, primarily, a characteristic of EQ clones.

Now, progression being kind of meh in this game is a valid critisizm, but you cant both have long-term progression and lack of grind, the two are mutually exclusive, so when you have a game like this where the main progression system (VR) was changed to account wide, and people are currently calling for achievements and even alliance rank to be accounivised you probably wont see much support for making a real long term progression system to this game.

AT least there is a lot of different things to do. I dont really play this like an mmo because its not really that good of an mmo if you look at it that way, but it is a fun game.

brantkin · May 2017

Yeah gotta say one tamerial while it did fix a lot of things, it also made the game extremely static and boring at times, no sense of progression like at all really. The world and yourself feel completely static and unchanging at every step. Which in my opinion causes it to become boring faster, if i always felt like im improving and making progress i generally have a funner time with the game.

That's why i changed to crafting in away i felt i was accomplishing something, i had a goal and that was to get to max rank metal working so i can use dro m'athra motifs to look like im an end game char in a mmo. Rather than some peasant with a bunch of mis-matched garbage.

Now that the goal is over i have nothing else to strive for really, as im back to doing little damage in fights and never becoming stronger as my dps statics out at around the same amount. Leaving me with a void and a thought of just wasting my time, when i could be playing other games or doing other more meaningful things.

tinythinker · May 2017

Different issues for different people. For example, my drop-off in play is connected mostly to a couple of things:

I never have the "unstoppable gear" preferred for trials and vMA and competitive PvP and I tangentially work with groups. So, I do what I can in terms of content and progression (solo quests and some dungeons, maybe an easy mode trial and just running around in Cyrodiil) then get stuck and roll a new character and doing to over. But I never find a build (race/class) that works with my mediocre gear to really see improvement or an opening to do more. Not since the end of 1.5. Doing the same thing over and over on multiple characters (4 or 5 have all regular quests and all dolmens/delves for the base game done and others are halted in progression on that) gets old.

Part of this is beyond my control (how the game mechanics/gear has changed over time) and part is just that I don't like bothering people too much for help when I can't offer something in return (asking for people to help me farm or craft gear, running content when I feel under-powered/not pulling my weight, etc.) and that I am reluctant to or unable to speak in voice comms. Some of it is also probably just a natural individual skill limit, which is why having better gear and reliable teammates matters.

The other thing, which is completely beyond my control, is that while I appreciate allowing new DLC/Chapter zones to have their own self-contained story so that new players can jump right in, it would be nice to also have a continuous story too. This could easily be layered on top of any or all base game and DLC zones with phasing and dialogue options unlocked under certain conditions. It would give a sense of investment in a larger story and in NPCs, even if it was a very loosely connected set of plots. There wouldn't need to be dates or specified intervals of time indicated, only a sequential ordering.

Everyone has their own "why I sometimes get frustrated/bored/disinterested in an MMO" story. ZOS can't cater to us all. (But if you like, ZOS, pm me for a list of how you could simply cater to *me*).

Waffennacht · May 2017

Well if you're talking about end game gear and hard content then you must be talking about trial gear

Because it's BiS and it's by no means easy

Solo and true "end game" content are not synonymous in MMOs (and you know what I mean)

TheShadowScout · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously...

...and actualyl, that's the part I hate most about MMORPGs. Because...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

When they increase max gear level from 160, forcing me to kiss my 300+ hours of farming goodbye and to do it again. That's when I'll conclude I could rather spend the time on having fun and that's when I'll fall behind. I will quit then.

...this.

I agree that a MMORPG should give people a continuous chase to "become better". I disagree that this chase should be re-farming all their gear whenever the cap raises. I disagree that they should be forever chasing the "best gear possible", and instead chase other stuff.
I hate chasing gear.
I love chasing skill maxings/morphings!
I love chasing achievements. (though some are a bit too much chase, really)
I love chasing guild progressions!
I love chasing crafting motivs!
Why? Because the latter things last forever, are part of my character, and wont become obsolete someday just because gear cap rises!

I think the game should add more stuff to chase, yes, but that is should avoid making people feel their hard charing of times past has been for nothing when the object of their chase needs be discarded in favor of the new flavor.

As such, I would wish they might add more of the fun things to chase. More guilds. More crafting styles. More weapon skills. More achievements. More skills, one way or another.

And if they have to raise gear cap, then at least give us some way to raise gear level, even if it is as annoying as farming a whole new set would be, it at least would bypass the sinking feeling of having all the work we put into golding our favorite CP160 set go to waste...

...

Also, I think the game really could use more grand things to work towards, guild-wise. Stuff where lots of guild members contribute, and in the end have a greater sense of achievement when they finally finish that special guildhall addition or something... especially when the contributions might be done well, stuff where its not only the highend players, but also guild noobs that can pitch in, so, less "spend hard to get stuff that only endgame characters have a hope of grabbing" and more "spend tons of easy to grab, but time consuming resources".

tinythinker wrote: »

The other thing, which is completely beyond my control, is that while I appreciate allowing new DLC/Chapter zones to have their own self-contained story so that new players can jump right in, it would be nice to also have a continuous story too...

Rejoyce then, because they are doing that.
There is a nice big storyline in the works hinted at by the prohpet at the end of orsinium, and further elaborasted upon in the recent new "missing prophecy" quest... looks like after Molag Bal had his turn, three princes will be next to make trouble on a large scale (Mephala, Nocturne and Clavicus Vile from the looks of it!)
...
...And yeah, I can't wait to see how that turns out, I am hoping they might not use up all their thunder in one DLC, but have a nice drawn out theme that goes through multiple regions, multiple DLCs, and gives us long time enjoyment as we follow the small stories while watching the big one unfold...

MLGProPlayer · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

Did you just start playing this game?

Yes, overland content is a joke. But there are over 30 dungeons, arenas, and trials that offer plenty of challenge.

Do I wish overland content was more difficult? Absolutely. But to say there isn't any difficult content in the game is to be ignorant.

Sausage · May 2017

Dont stop playing, just take a Break and play something else, like Conan Exiles.

StormWylf · May 2017

tinythinker wrote: »

Different issues for different people. For example, my drop-off in play is connected mostly to a couple of things:

...Everyone has their own "why I sometimes get frustrated/bored/disinterested in an MMO" story. ZOS can't cater to us all...

This nailed it.

Most of us have played other MMO's and left for one reason or another. Sometimes it's just time for a change.
If you are not having fun, find something that works for you. I'm still having a good time here (even though I hate the gawd awful auction house system).

ObsidianMichi · May 2017

Everyone takes breaks, everyone burns themselves out, and sometimes we just need a change. Playing one game consistently for any length of time is a commitment, but I like that there will usually be new content with the MMOs I love when I return. Sometimes though, people move on and there's nothing wrong with that either.

Nemesis7884 · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

1 u dont understamd what makes rpg great at all....its the characters and the story and certainly not mainly the items

2 vertical progression is stupid and horixontal progression works much better imo, especially in mmo

Mutagem · May 2017

Wasn't expecting so many replies lol I'll try to respond as best as I can. I also wanna say this is still my favorite MMO i've played the ones I have played are:

WoW
Rift
Age of Conan [I wish this game had a /fart like that game does lol]
SWTOR
Tera [The combat and BAM quests in that were pretty good]

Couple other ones I can't remember

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

The game is part TES and part MMO. The exploration in the game is very similar to previous TES games. However, part of the game involves other players such as dungeons, trials, vDSA and AvA, soon to be Batlegrounds.

If you want challenging single player content that is vMaelstrom Arena. Normal is fairly easy, vet offers a worthy challenge. For open world, MMOs generally do not have challenging content because what is challenging for one player is a push over for others, hence content like vMA and the group content mentioned above.

From your post you have barely scratched the surface concerning end game.

Completely untrue there. I have beaten veteran malestrom arena, all the vet trials and on hard mode [except vMOL but meh, games lost interest for me kinda]

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

Did you just start playing this game?

Yes, overland content is a joke. But there are over 30 dungeons, arenas, and trials that offer plenty of challenge.

Do I wish overland content was more difficult? Absolutely. But to say there isn't any difficult content in the game is to be ignorant.

That's the problem is I've been playing since July 2014. I played it really extensively when i first got into it and loved it. I played until july 2015 then i took a year off until july 2016. I just think somewhere though during that cadwells journey playing the whole thing through it slowly lost its appeal to me. Making an alt kinda helped but not really. I can't even find myself the desire to play any of the story of orsinium which i'm told is amazing and I got through some of it but just the gameplay/gear aspect just doesn't get me anymore.

I think the bottom line though is that this game failed [as of this point imo] to cater to what made the other elder scrolls games more successful: a more solid single player experience. I know it's an MMO and as stated above it's still the best one I've played, it just doesn't stand the test of time though in that single player experience. I think it just lacks the immersion maybe?? I dunno

The ironic thing was PVP kept me interested in the game for a longer duration. Which shouldn't be how it is in a game that was fundamentally built upon successful single player games

Vipstaakki · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously. The plateau for that in this game ends rather early and you're left over powered killing everything in quests with ease from cadwells silver all the way to cadwells gold. The whole idea of past elder scrolls games leaves this idea very frail in this game and leaves the single player content feeling rather easy/boring. Buff the toughness/strength of single player quest combat and it could be redeemed more imo

I thought I had more to add but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet lol feel free to throw in your thoughts

I think you are wrong.
For me the whole point of RPG's is about the story and the journey rather than getting to Min/max as fast as possible.

Mutagem · May 2017

Also just to clarify with people attacking my "gear progression" comment I wrote this after sleeping for 15 hours lol I do agree that doesn't JUST make a good RPG. To back up my claims heres a list of RPGs ive beaten over the years

Arcanum
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Bioshock infinite
Baldurs gate 1
Baldurs gate 2
Borderlands 1
Borderlands 2
Borderlands: Prequel
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Demons souls
Dark souls 1
Dark souls 2
Dark Souls 3
Diablo 1
Diablo 2
Diablo 3
Dishonored
Dishonored 2
Divine divinity: Original Sin
Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen
Dragon age origins
Dragon age 2
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Dying light
Dead island
Dead island riptide
Ff 7 8 9 10 12
Fable
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
Fallout 4
Fallout new vegas
Far cry 3
Far cry 4
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Legend of zelda LTTP SNES
Mass effect 2
Mass Effect: Andromeda
Oblivion
Planescape: Torment
STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl
STALKER call of pripyat
STALKER Clear Sky
Shadowrun (SNES)
Shadowrun Returns
Shadowrun returns 2 (cant remember the name of it)
Skyrim
System shock 2
Wasteland 2
Watch Dogs [Sort of??]
Watch Dogs 2 [sort of??]
Witcher 1
Witcher 2
Witcher 3

Shogunami · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

Also just to clarify with people attacking my "gear progression" comment I wrote this after sleeping for 15 hours lol I do agree that doesn't JUST make a good RPG. To back up my claims heres a list of RPGs ive beaten over the years
Arcanum
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Bioshock infinite
Baldurs gate 1
Baldurs gate 2
Borderlands 1
Borderlands 2
Borderlands: Prequel
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Demons souls
Dark souls 1
Dark souls 2
Dark Souls 3
Diablo 1
Diablo 2
Diablo 3
Dishonored
Dishonored 2
Divine divinity: Original Sin
Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen
Dragon age origins
Dragon age 2
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Dying light
Dead island
Dead island riptide
Ff 7 8 9 10 12
Fable
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
Fallout 4
Fallout new vegas
Far cry 3
Far cry 4
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Legend of zelda LTTP SNES
Mass effect 2
Mass Effect: Andromeda
Oblivion
Planescape: Torment
STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl
STALKER call of pripyat
STALKER Clear Sky
Shadowrun (SNES)
Shadowrun Returns
Shadowrun returns 2 (cant remember the name of it)
Skyrim
System shock 2
Wasteland 2
Watch Dogs [Sort of??]
Watch Dogs 2 [sort of??]
Witcher 1
Witcher 2
Witcher 3

Funny thing is I dont think almost any of those games are about getting the best gear possible. Neither do they all fit in the same genre as not all of them are RPGs. Some are jRPGS, some are aRPGS, some of them aren't RGPs at all.

I understand what you mean though, gear progression is the main point for many RPG players - but gear progression isn't the actual point of any traditional RPG. The point of RPGs is in the name - ROLE PLAYING games.

Story, atmosphere, characters and interacting with the world, that's the point of RPGs.

Gear progression in ESO is almost nonexistent. The only real progression is when you level up and gear your character.
This is one of the failures of ESO imho, but it doesn't make the game itself a failure.

And I do agree, ESO is insultingly easy. The game more or less forces you to run around naked, with a costume mind you, to have any kind of challenge when questing.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Mutagem wrote: »

1. Single Player RPG context in terms of itemization. The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously...

...and actualyl, that's the part I hate most about MMORPGs. Because...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

When they increase max gear level from 160, forcing me to kiss my 300+ hours of farming goodbye and to do it again. That's when I'll conclude I could rather spend the time on having fun and that's when I'll fall behind. I will quit then.

...this.

I agree that a MMORPG should give people a continuous chase to "become better". I disagree that this chase should be re-farming all their gear whenever the cap raises. I disagree that they should be forever chasing the "best gear possible", and instead chase other stuff.
I hate chasing gear.
I love chasing skill maxings/morphings!
I love chasing achievements. (though some are a bit too much chase, really)
I love chasing guild progressions!
I love chasing crafting motivs!
Why? Because the latter things last forever, are part of my character, and wont become obsolete someday just because gear cap rises!

I think the game should add more stuff to chase, yes, but that is should avoid making people feel their hard charing of times past has been for nothing when the object of their chase needs be discarded in favor of the new flavor.

As such, I would wish they might add more of the fun things to chase. More guilds. More crafting styles. More weapon skills. More achievements. More skills, one way or another.

And if they have to raise gear cap, then at least give us some way to raise gear level, even if it is as annoying as farming a whole new set would be, it at least would bypass the sinking feeling of having all the work we put into golding our favorite CP160 set go to waste...

...

Also, I think the game really could use more grand things to work towards, guild-wise. Stuff where lots of guild members contribute, and in the end have a greater sense of achievement when they finally finish that special guildhall addition or something... especially when the contributions might be done well, stuff where its not only the highend players, but also guild noobs that can pitch in, so, less "spend hard to get stuff that only endgame characters have a hope of grabbing" and more "spend tons of easy to grab, but time consuming resources".

tinythinker wrote: »

The other thing, which is completely beyond my control, is that while I appreciate allowing new DLC/Chapter zones to have their own self-contained story so that new players can jump right in, it would be nice to also have a continuous story too...

Rejoyce then, because they are doing that.
There is a nice big storyline in the works hinted at by the prohpet at the end of orsinium, and further elaborasted upon in the recent new "missing prophecy" quest... looks like after Molag Bal had his turn, three princes will be next to make trouble on a large scale (Mephala, Nocturne and Clavicus Vile from the looks of it!)
...
...And yeah, I can't wait to see how that turns out, I am hoping they might not use up all their thunder in one DLC, but have a nice drawn out theme that goes through multiple regions, multiple DLCs, and gives us long time enjoyment as we follow the small stories while watching the big one unfold...

The 'Chase' that you're talking about @TheShadowScout is what I refer to as horizontal development. Its my thought exactly.

Banana · May 2017

Ive got the missus moving in soon. She may decide for me.

Mrs_Malaka · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

Also just to clarify with people attacking my "gear progression" comment I wrote this after sleeping for 15 hours lol I do agree that doesn't JUST make a good RPG. To back up my claims heres a list of RPGs ive beaten over the years

Arcanum
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Bioshock infinite
Baldurs gate 1
Baldurs gate 2
Borderlands 1
Borderlands 2
Borderlands: Prequel
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Demons souls
Dark souls 1
Dark souls 2
Dark Souls 3
Diablo 1
Diablo 2
Diablo 3
Dishonored
Dishonored 2
Divine divinity: Original Sin
Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen
Dragon age origins
Dragon age 2
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Dying light
Dead island
Dead island riptide
Ff 7 8 9 10 12
Fable
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
Fallout 4
Fallout new vegas
Far cry 3
Far cry 4
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Legend of zelda LTTP SNES
Mass effect 2
Mass Effect: Andromeda
Oblivion
Planescape: Torment
STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl
STALKER call of pripyat
STALKER Clear Sky
Shadowrun (SNES)
Shadowrun Returns
Shadowrun returns 2 (cant remember the name of it)
Skyrim
System shock 2
Wasteland 2
Watch Dogs [Sort of??]
Watch Dogs 2 [sort of??]
Witcher 1
Witcher 2
Witcher 3

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Rosveen · May 2017

Mutagem wrote: »

The whole point of RPG's is getting the best gear possible continuously.

This isn't even on my list of priorities, let alone at its top. I've played and loved games with abysmal gear progression. I spent hundreds of hours in Skyrim in studded armor because I like the way it looks. In fact, I'd argue that in Elder Scrolls games the focus on looks is as much, if not more common than the focus on stats. These games aren't terribly hard, hitting the armor cap is very easy if you use crafting skills at all, so the stats dont matter as much. Incidentally, this is where ESO failed despite its early attempts to make crafting interesting and valuable: without transmogrification, all the nice motifs are useless.