[FEEDBACK] My personal opinion on the Morrowind changes, and direction of the game.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

*** Disclaimer: This is NOT an "I quit" post. ***

I know that I and many other people have repeatedly voiced our dismay, concern, and outright disappointment and rage at these changes coming down the pipe, and the same emotions that ZOS is not listening to our feedback one little bit. We've given our virulent disapproval of the changes. We've given alternate changes that would achieve the same result but would save player builds and even full Classes. We've got some math-wizards who've crunched mountains of numbers that PROVE that the changes will be bad. We've made video displaying how bad the changes will be. We've had Streamers (who're so beloved by ZOS over the rest of us) who've displayed how bad the changes will be. The very vocal disapproval is all over these Forums, every Facebook post ZOS makes, Reddit, 4Chan, Twitter, video-game Magazone site Forums, etc. We've left mountains of evidence that; not only are the vast majority of players against these changes, we've told you why and left alternate suggestions, all in very great and well compiled detail.

But what do we get?

We get canned, PR responses from the Reps who're allowed to post on these Forums; and those responses still fail to address any of the multitudinous concerns of the community. We get told that you're "listening", even though the changes "may not be what you're wanting, we're still listening"... When this magnitude of Players is unhappy with these changes, ZOS; it's not a case of "we're listening, you just didn't get what you wanted", it's an outright dismissal of the concerns and desires of the majority of your Player Base.

But another emotion that the changes and lack of active listening by ZOS is bringing about; is depression.

I really loved ESO. I made that statement past tense because that love is already dwindling at an ever faster rate as these changes come closer to reality every day.

I Main a Magicka Templar. Two in fact, one is a Healer and one is a DPS monster; and both are going to become nigh useless once these changes go Live.

Now, I have/had a full slate of eight (8) characters on my Xbox account. I also have a PC account for this game (as I said, I loved ESO), and that account exists specifically so that I can participate in the PTS. I used to have eight characters, but I deleted my MagDk and MagNB a few nights back. There simply is no point to having them once this patch goes Live, as they will be completely useless to run in anything EXCEPT overland content, and I've already completed all that on every one of them.

I also have a couple of Magicka Sorcs, but I will be funneling that down to One (1) MagSorc, as there will be no point to having more than one.

I also will have to (deeply disappointed with this reality here) whittle my stable of Mag Templars down to one.

Couple all of that with and because of the changes ZOS is going to make regardless of Player feedback, and my actual play time in ESO will be greatly reduced as well. Changing the combat to be Heavy Attack focused is boring. It takes the "fun" out of what used to be a great combat system, and reduces it to a mindless slog of Heavy Attacks... and not much else.

There's a reason people build their characters to specifically avoid frequent uses of Heavy Attacks, ZOS. And that reason is that it's a boring, mindless, cheap combat system lacking in any kind of originality.

So my play time is going to drop from 14-28 hours per week, to about 1-4 hours per week. Just enough to keep my Guild running.

Why? Because I cannot devote that much time to a game where the Devs are determined to make the game as monotone and monotonous as you are shooting for with these changes.

About the only thing keeping me in ESO is the Elder Scrolls skin that it wears. And that's really every reason I have for keeping the two characters I plan on keeping. The Elder Scrolls skin.

Now; I have 20+ years of playing MMORPG's under my belt. I started with Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, and EverQuest. These were great MMORPG's in their day, and they were great because, despite the changes they made, they kept that "fun and unique" factor deeply embedded in every change that they made.

Did those games make some truly horrible changes along the way? Sure. And that's ultimately what led to them "dying off", even if they all haven't "shut the lights off" and powered down the servers. It has happened with some truly great MMO's as well (i.e. Star Wars Galaxies).

I would rather not see this same thing happen to ESO, especially since it is still very young for an MMO at only three (3) years old. But this seems to be what you as a development company are determined to do, despite the legions of Players trying to tell you what to do to avoid this very same fate for ESO.

So; my play time is going to decrease, and indeed it already has. I haven't logged into the Live server except for a minuscule total of four (4) hours over the last two weeks, and that's due to these changes you're forcing upon a player base that doesn't want them. I mean, what's the point of logging in and supporting a game that is determined to remove anything unique about the various classes and to reduce the formerly unique combat down to a mindless Heavy Attack slog? I also have all-but quit logging into the PTS, except for a couple of hours here and there. Again; what's the point to dropping into the PTS and testing and leaving Feedback, when it is only going to fall on deaf ears of a development company that doesn't listen unless the Feedback only gives glowing praise of the destruction you are inflicting on your own game?

So really, ZOS; what's the point anymore?

My play time will stay at a meager 2-4 hours per week, if even that much, once these changes go live. There will not be any more Crown Store purchases. I've already cancelled all of my Subscriptions on mine and my wife's accounts. And my characters in my stable will drop to only two.

Because due to your intransigence over these changes, and outright willful dismissal of Player concerns; there's zero reasons to give you or your game any more of my limited, precious free-time that I get to enjoy my Gaming hobby.

There's plenty of other great MMORPG's on the market currently, and several more releasing over the next year that hold a lot of promise. So while I will still hope that ESO improves, you have pushed me to explore those other MMORPG's much more than I would have, had you not taken the intransigent stance that you have over these changes, and willful dismissal of your Player's concerns.

So; while I am NOT quitting ESO, I quite frankly, have other MMO's to explore that DO have a desire to keep uniqueness and fun in their design and development core values.

The fault for this change in my attitude lies squarely on your shoulders, ZOS. This is no one's fault but your own.

And I have a strong suspicion that I am not alone in this.

Peace,

Vampire Nox

Mauin · May 2017

I agree so much with this. I've been playing for two years, and I've been subbed for a little over a year. I used to enjoy playing this game. Used to. The thing is, with this patch especially, I've grown very tired of player feedback being almost totally ignored, and I'm *very* unhappy with the direction this game is going in.

I wish I could say it was just this patch, though. This feeling has been building for a while now. Time after time I've seen player feedback get ignored, and there hasn't been any truly new content since... What, the two dungeons added by Shadows of the Hist? And those didn't take long to do. Granted, I still don't have all the achievements, but why should I bother when several of my favorite characters have had their builds totally destroyed? Only one of my characters might be useful in Morrowind, and that's my Sorc, of course, since clearly Sorcs are the favorite class.

Playing ESO has become a chore to me. It's not enjoyable anymore. There's been a huge gap between new content, and I'm frustrated with how the game has been handled. I'm just... At my limit.

Eddyble · May 2017

Good Read,

I agree with a lot of it. And to add my 2 cents, I definitely feel the FUN being continuously taken out of the GAME. Yes, some changes are needed but a lot aren't, I can adapt but that shouldn't be the point. We shouldn't have to defend the changes by saying L2P. It shouldn't be WORK. Little things keep getting tweaked and just take away the joy. Even with the run speed changes recently, being able to make your character do silly things like run faster than a mount was entertaining (also helped with farming mats). I'm becoming more and more saddened each patch note over the last year +.

argouru · May 2017

I have to admit that my own enthusiasm for the game has begun to diminish in light of these changes, esp. to my favorite class of Nightblades. I only just started getting into end-game pve content and learning that it will become harder for me to complete as I'm not the best player and lack good reflexes, is very disheartening. I may end up playing less often than I already have been. For now, I'm trying to complete as much content as I can before the next update hits while I'm still able to complete it. after that, I may avoid end-game content and stick to questing in the new zones until these changes are altered or reversed.

Admittedly, the real feeling of dissatisfaction comes from the minimal responses from the developers, making us feel as if our concerns fall on either deaf or unconcerned ears. It's the lack of acknowledgement of our concerns that is the worst part of this. I get that they can't answer EVERY concern, but letting us know they hear us and are doing something, ANYTHING to address them would be helpful in easing our fears and disheartenment.

HugeMuffin · May 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

But another emotion that the changes and lack of active listening by ZOS is bringing about; is depression.

Yup, this patch has taken people who care passionately about the game and either run them off, or got them to admit "I'ts just a game. It's not worth building communities in, it's not worth caring about, it's not worth contributing to."

This game's mechanics and systems are both easy to grasp but incredibly deep. Using only three main attributes, a handful of stat numbers, and a limited array of skills, this game opened up a world of possibilities and customization. I know that fascination held me enough that I wrote several thousand words aimed directly at helping new players gain an understanding of the game and of pvp.

The past few weeks of patch cycles have completely burned that out of me.

The morrowind patch has shifted a game, which should be fun and focused on fun, to being focused on 'viable'. Yes, it's possible to be viable, but combat isn't fun, or deep, or varied. It's slow, it's plodding, and it's clunky.

I'll still stick around and play, but it's just a game now. There are world's of difference bouncing between Live and PTS right now, but the main intangible is that PTS isn't fun. I can do things, but they aren't fun.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Excellent additions. Thank you all for adding in your own views alongside mine.

Another thing that gets me: the contradictions between their changes and the reasoning behind the changes.

An example: "We made the changes to focus more on Heavy Attacks and weaving them into your combat rotations. We did this to preserve the 'fast-paced' combat that everyone loves and has become a hallmark of ESO's combat mechanics."

If "preserving the fast-paced combat" is the main goal, why change the sustain/cost reduction thus forcing players to utilize Heavy Attacks almost every-other attack?

Heavy Attacks charge so slowly, that they serve no purpose BUT to slow down combat.

So why make changes that are supposed to preserve the fast-paced combat, but force us to rely on combat mechanics that directly oppose that goal?

This situation and scenario has been voiced many times by Players in many different venues, but with no answer or acknowledgment from the Devs.

It's a very worrisome contradiction that only serves to further erode trust in the changes/direction that ZOS is taking with ESO.

Wolfenbelle · May 2017

Although I don't plan to leave the game or change the already limited time I have to play it, I concur with most of what has been posted on this thread. I've been playing ESO for over three years and have not seen this much upset among players in all that time.

With the exception of resto staff, heavy attacks actually slow combat down because the player has to wait for the attack to charge. While waiting, the player is wide open to being damaged by enemies. Forcing heavy attacks to be so important is stupid, to be honest, so I'm surprised that developers for one of the leading MMOs on the market would do such a thing. Yet, as OP said, there doesn't appear to even be any acknowledgement of the problem by ZOS, let alone any attempt to change direction while there is still time.

I will find a way around the heavy attack thing, but if it turns out to be impossible, then I will consider leaving the game.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

KhajiitHasSkooma · May 2017

Also agree!

You can't put a metric on fun. You can only say whether you are enjoying something or not. When I logged on the PTS and tried out a heavy attack build on my magDK, I knew I wasn't having fun. When I ran through vMA on my mag sorc that got adjusted for sustain and it was just an hour and a half of heavy attacking misery, I knew I wasn't having fun.

When this game launched, it was in a bad state. Bugs that prevented progress in the quest lines on top of all the gold sellers and ton of other stuff. ZOS fixed a majority but of the issues the game had at launch. When One Tamriel came out, I thought ZOS had done a damn good job of turning things around. However, all the PTS changes have managed to severely doubt their ability to take this game forward in a positive manner.

No one wants heavy attack meta in PVE. This is a core gameplay mechanic. They force it on us. The Morrowind patch feels like Launch 2.0. Except this time, not sure how in the world they are going to turn it around. I'm really not sure they are capable of it. Highly doubt people are going to give this game a third chance.

I might just go back to Skyrim or replaying Morrowind, just heavily modded. As long as this is the direction of ESO, there's going to be a ton more people joining the "what the hell bethesda, we want TES6 not that eso trash" crowd, as little sense as that statement makes.

argouru · May 2017

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Although I don't plan to leave the game or change the already limited time I have to play it, I concur with most of what has been posted on this thread. I've been playing ESO for over three years and have not seen this much upset among players in all that time.

With the exception of resto staff, heavy attacks actually slow combat down because the player has to wait for the attack to charge. While waiting, the player is wide open to being damaged by enemies. Forcing heavy attacks to be so important is stupid, to be honest, so I'm surprised that developers for one of the leading MMOs on the market would do such a thing. Yet, as OP said, there doesn't appear to even be any acknowledgement of the problem by ZOS, let alone any attempt to change direction while there is still time.

I will find a way around the heavy attack thing, but if it turns out to be impossible, then I will consider leaving the game.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Lightning staffs also have a 'beam-like' quality, which makes them the most enjoyable to use for me as I hate the build up for flame and ice staffs, which I wish also had a beam-like attack method over the build up for a single shot like they do now. With beams, I feel like I'm actually doing consistent damage with no awkward pauses to build up a heavy attack. After all, I can't spend ALL my time going "I'm going to heeeeaaaallll you to death, I'm going to heeeeaaaallll you to death..." when I use a resto staff.

argouru · May 2017

I'd also like to see videos of the developers playing through some vet-level pve content with the new changes and no moderator add-ons or tricks to see how well THEY do with a stamblade, stam dk and such in vet-level dungeons and trials under the new system.

Wolfenbelle · May 2017

argouru wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Although I don't plan to leave the game or change the already limited time I have to play it, I concur with most of what has been posted on this thread. I've been playing ESO for over three years and have not seen this much upset among players in all that time.

With the exception of resto staff, heavy attacks actually slow combat down because the player has to wait for the attack to charge. While waiting, the player is wide open to being damaged by enemies. Forcing heavy attacks to be so important is stupid, to be honest, so I'm surprised that developers for one of the leading MMOs on the market would do such a thing. Yet, as OP said, there doesn't appear to even be any acknowledgement of the problem by ZOS, let alone any attempt to change direction while there is still time.

I will find a way around the heavy attack thing, but if it turns out to be impossible, then I will consider leaving the game.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Lightning staffs also have a 'beam-like' quality, which makes them the most enjoyable to use for me as I hate the build up for flame and ice staffs, which I wish also had a beam-like attack method over the build up for a single shot like they do now. With beams, I feel like I'm actually doing consistent damage with no awkward pauses to build up a heavy attack. After all, I can't spend ALL my time going "I'm going to heeeeaaaallll you to death, I'm going to heeeeaaaallll you to death..." when I use a resto staff.

Good point about the lightning staff. My main is a stam Redguard DW/bow Templar DPS, but I also have a DPS Breton sorc that I'm re-gearing with Morrowind in mind. I'm above 630CP and will need to figure out optimal allocation for the sorc. That might be my way around the Morrowind changes, but I love my Templar and would hate to shelve her, so I might replace bow back bar with a staff.

Kilandros · May 2017

I also played Asheron's Call at my first MMO

You could feel the love the AC Devs had for that game. Even when the game basically stopped being profitable and WoW was dominating the MMO scene, those Devs put their hearts and souls into keep the game fun.

I get none of that sense of love or passion from the ESO Dev team

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

I also played Asheron's Call at my first MMO

You could feel the love the AC Devs had for that game. Even when the game basically stopped being profitable and WoW was dominating the MMO scene, those Devs put their hearts and souls into keep the game fun.

I get none of that sense of love or passion from the ESO Dev team

Agreed!

I loved most everything about Asheron's Call, and when I had to leave the game... that was a sad day for me. But you're absolutely correct. Every change, every patch, every time the Devs would even just talk to the community in AC, you could just tell that they had just as much passion for the game as the people playing it. You could tell that when the Devs would talk about their characters; not only were they actually playing the game alongside the rest of us, they were just as passionate about their characters as we the Players were.

That's a type of passion and love for the game that is simply absent in ESO. It's not "misplaced" or "misunderstood", it's simply not there... And that lack of passion and love for the product is what leads to changes like we're getting with Morrowind.

t3hdubzy · May 2017

Ive been dusting off old games and playing them lately. They arent nearly as enjoyable as ESO could be or has been, but my frustration level is way down.

Kilandros · May 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I also played Asheron's Call at my first MMO

You could feel the love the AC Devs had for that game. Even when the game basically stopped being profitable and WoW was dominating the MMO scene, those Devs put their hearts and souls into keep the game fun.

I get none of that sense of love or passion from the ESO Dev team

Agreed!

I loved most everything about Asheron's Call, and when I had to leave the game... that was a sad day for me. But you're absolutely correct. Every change, every patch, every time the Devs would even just talk to the community in AC, you could just tell that they had just as much passion for the game as the people playing it. You could tell that when the Devs would talk about their characters; not only were they actually playing the game alongside the rest of us, they were just as passionate about their characters as we the Players were.

That's a type of passion and love for the game that is simply absent in ESO. It's not "misplaced" or "misunderstood", it's simply not there... And that lack of passion and love for the product is what leads to changes like we're getting with Morrowind.

Even though Turbine shuttered the game servers, the AC developers were helping players set up private AC servers so the game could live on. That's dedication.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I also played Asheron's Call at my first MMO

You could feel the love the AC Devs had for that game. Even when the game basically stopped being profitable and WoW was dominating the MMO scene, those Devs put their hearts and souls into keep the game fun.

I get none of that sense of love or passion from the ESO Dev team

Agreed!

I loved most everything about Asheron's Call, and when I had to leave the game... that was a sad day for me. But you're absolutely correct. Every change, every patch, every time the Devs would even just talk to the community in AC, you could just tell that they had just as much passion for the game as the people playing it. You could tell that when the Devs would talk about their characters; not only were they actually playing the game alongside the rest of us, they were just as passionate about their characters as we the Players were.

That's a type of passion and love for the game that is simply absent in ESO. It's not "misplaced" or "misunderstood", it's simply not there... And that lack of passion and love for the product is what leads to changes like we're getting with Morrowind.

Even though Turbine shuttered the game servers, the AC developers were helping players set up private AC servers so the game could live on. That's dedication.

Absolutely!

Tholian1 · May 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Couple all of that with and because of the changes ZOS is going to make regardless of Player feedback, and my actual play time in ESO will be greatly reduced as well. Changing the combat to be Heavy Attack focused is boring. It takes the "fun" out of what used to be a great combat system, and reduces it to a mindless slog of Heavy Attacks... and not much else.

There's a reason people build their characters to specifically avoid frequent uses of Heavy Attacks, ZOS. And that reason is that it's a boring, mindless, cheap combat system lacking in any kind of originality.

When I was new, I always ran out of resources (still have some problems with that) but hated heavy attacking. I only wanted to use the cool skills that had fun descriptions. I had rather run out of resources than heavy attack at all. Why? Because heavy attacks are boring and made the combat feel sluggish and clunky. Not fast paced and fun.

Floki_Vilgerdarson · May 2017

OP I enjoyed reading your post. I also improved my vocabulary by looking up "intransigent". Perfect choice of words, I also respect your opinion based on your extensive experience in MMOs it is clear you speak from wisdom.

Thank you for your time and energy writing this post.

Floki

Ruze · May 2017

argouru wrote: »

I have to admit that my own enthusiasm for the game has begun to diminish in light of these changes, esp. to my favorite class of Nightblades. I only just started getting into end-game pve content and learning that it will become harder for me to complete as I'm not the best player and lack good reflexes, is very disheartening. I may end up playing less often than I already have been. For now, I'm trying to complete as much content as I can before the next update hits while I'm still able to complete it. after that, I may avoid end-game content and stick to questing in the new zones until these changes are altered or reversed.

Admittedly, the real feeling of dissatisfaction comes from the minimal responses from the developers, making us feel as if our concerns fall on either deaf or unconcerned ears. It's the lack of acknowledgement of our concerns that is the worst part of this. I get that they can't answer EVERY concern, but letting us know they hear us and are doing something, ANYTHING to address them would be helpful in easing our fears and disheartenment.

I feel the same way. I am pretty casual. I have but one combat character (a NB that I use to tank in dungeons and just try to make fun stam builds for questing), one crafting character, and a mule. The NB changes make me extremely hesitant to even attempt dungeons as a tank, since siphoning attacks is so useful given that I need both resources. I got a full leeching set just a couple of weeks ago to tank with after coaching level 20 guys through ICP multiple times (which was fun and luckily I had people willing to keep going and were receptive to my mechanics tips).

But now I have been less motivated to continue progressing (such as trying to get a good monster set) because I do not know if it will even be fun to tank as a NB after Morrowind. Even if it is still doable (which I am sure it will be) the idea that it will still be harder just does not sound fun to me. I like a challenge, but struggling to even be able to use your abilities consistently to keep you and your team alive sounds so not fun. And I am really talking doing a quick daily dungeon run with the group finder, not trials, because I think the more inexperienced players are going to be hit the hardest by the changes.

I will still enjoy questing (which I still have a lot left of), but if group content just becomes harder and more tedious, I doubt I will enjoy doing it anymore.

Moloch1514 · May 2017

Great post! 100% agree with everything. This all went South when ZOS shifted focus to Crown sales (and made a certain hire). Game play seems like a minor issue to ZOS, and if we don't like it, they'll just have more free weekends and get more short term players.

Mush55 · May 2017

I was never an ESO fan tbh but I am an avid mmo player, started on everquest with my dial up modem and progressed through the new ones as they were released, some good some bad and some truly epic.

Well time moves on and a family and kids my pc made way for a console and eso's release, 16 vet ranks I sufferd then they removed them, over 700 cp I think I have now they are changing this system.

I think that Zos has no understanding or clear path in which it wants to take this game for the long term, each update seems to reverse any previous update . Maybe if they had carried on with a subscription model they may of had some better minds in house to keep things moving forward and on an even keel.

I've quit returned and am about to leave for good not dramatics just no confidence in the developers any more.

alexkdd99 · May 2017

I agree with alot of what you said. However I believe the post could of done without the statements/ threats of playing less and paying less. Imo it just detracts from the overall goal of the post.

Imo, when they see people posting threats or similar things as in your post they either close them or just ignore them.

I think alot of your post is good and I agree with, but ultimatum type post are not good. Nobody likes an ultimatum.

Dapper Dinosaur · May 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Imo, when they see people posting threats or similar things as in your post they either close them or just ignore them.

I think alot of your post is good and I agree with, but ultimatum type post are not good. Nobody likes an ultimatum.

Apparently there's nothing else they're going to listen to.

My only hope at this point is that they do in fact realize the horrible mistake they're about to make and are actually working on an alternative right now, and just aren't ready to come out with it yet. From what others have said about ZoS's PTS history though, those hopes are very slim. I also am practically quitting. They just had that anniversary event to help everyone grind up a bunch of new characters to 50, and I've been working on gearing them all up, but it feels completely pointless when I'm not going to be able to clear endgame content no matter what I do with them anyway in the next patch.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

I agree with alot of what you said. However I believe the post could of done without the statements/ threats of playing less and paying less. Imo it just detracts from the overall goal of the post.

Imo, when they see people posting threats or similar things as in your post they either close them or just ignore them.

I think alot of your post is good and I agree with, but ultimatum type post are not good. Nobody likes an ultimatum.

I understand where you're coming from, and some of my post does seem a bit demanding or like an ultimatum.

But I'm simply being as honest as I can. This is where I'm at now, how my attitude has been changing over the course of the last say... year-and-a-half of ESO and ZOS's changes, and it's all that they've left me with. None of it is threatening though. that I won't admit to.

It's simply my testament to where ZOs has left me in regard to their game.

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

OP I enjoyed reading your post. I also improved my vocabulary by looking up "intransigent". Perfect choice of words, I also respect your opinion based on your extensive experience in MMOs it is clear you speak from wisdom.

Thank you for your time and energy writing this post.

Floki

Thank you for the compliment, and I'm glad I could help your vocabulary!

I guess "wisdom" would be the correct word, though I don't use it in reference to myself much though. It makes me feel as if I'm being vain. lol But I have been around the block a few times in this genre.

I've had the honor and pleasure of playing some truly epic MMORPG's in those years. Those are the types of MMO's that MMO's today are still judged against.

I've also had the misfortune of playing some MMO's that were/are epic-horrible in all the worst ways.

And I've played MMO's that weren't horrible, but they weren't "great" either. They were just a fun romp and a nice way to pass the time until the next "epic" MMORPG came along.

But I have seen MMORPG's and the Genre as a whole change and evolve over the years. I've seen enough to know what works, and what leads to failure. What are great, smooth, well planned mechanics, and everything that is not.

Where does ESO fit into that scale? It's in my OP (of course), but I'm seeing a shift in the game; and with the experiences I've had, both good and bad, it is my strongly held personal opinion that these changes are going to be strikingly detrimental to ESO.

I'm not trying to be a "doomsayer" or anything like that. But I have seen what has killed MMO's in the past. Some die quickly in just a few weeks. With other games the death was slower, hemorrhaging players at a slower rate, but just as unstoppable and inevitable. Changes like these? These are changes that a lot of dead MMO's have made as well, and these are changes that no "successful" MMORPG has made to my recollection.

I've done my best to try to leave my honest feedback, to warn ZOS away from making vast mistakes like these upcoming changes. I've seen what happens to MMO's that do this, it isn't pretty, and it doesn't lead to happy times in-game.

And if they are steadfast in forging ahead with these decisions? Well... ESO isn't the only MMO on the block. I'll keep playing, marginally, but only with the hope that they reverse these decisions.

bugmom · May 2017

I agree with OP. I've been playing since shortly after launch and used to play many hours every day. Now, days and days go by and I find it a chore just to think of playing this game. That is mostly because, instead of looking forward to awesomeness coming in the next patch or next DLC, I find myself being more and more depressed about what fun thing will ZOS take away next. I have a full stable of various characters and instead of building them up and improving them I've found them to be more and more useless. It's one thing to max out an all gold end game character and find new goals to work towards in a new release (whether new skills, better armor) versus finding your whole character and all the hours invested are now down the drain. It's not fun. It's depressing.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Mush55 wrote: »

I was never an ESO fan tbh but I am an avid mmo player, started on everquest with my dial up modem and progressed through the new ones as they were released, some good some bad and some truly epic.

Well time moves on and a family and kids my pc made way for a console and eso's release, 16 vet ranks I sufferd then they removed them, over 700 cp I think I have now they are changing this system.

I think that Zos has no understanding or clear path in which it wants to take this game for the long term, each update seems to reverse any previous update . Maybe if they had carried on with a subscription model they may of had some better minds in house to keep things moving forward and on an even keel.

I've quit returned and am about to leave for good not dramatics just no confidence in the developers any more.

I agree with you.

Just from what I've seen from past MMO's, their changes, and the effects of those changes both in-game and in the life of MMO's that have made changes like this before ZOS... I really don't think they have the vision that they say that they do for ESO.

I just have that feeling that they're wandering around in the dark. They know they're potentially sitting on a goldmine, bu they have no idea how to get the vein out of the rock.

The changes are just so contradictory to their stated goals for the game...

I really think that they just need to hire someone as a lead developer who has a lot of time specifically in running an MMO. I fully understand that their developers have plenty of experience in writing/coding for an MMO, but I don't think they have anyone with any appreciable experience Leading in MMO development/design/direction.

And I think the game, the game experience, and the core mechanics and base direction for this game is suffering from that.

Dantaria · May 2017

My personal 2 cents into that discussion

This new state of the game is really desperately sad. From my experience in PTS - yes. You see that long and ugly HA animation from lightning staff much more often now. But even this isn't the end.

The other major - massive - turn-off in all this is that HAs are absolutely unrewarding.

I'm not Alcast or Gilliam, I honestly admit that I'm nowhere near their level. But personally I do not see any way now to make HA builds viable. The numbers are too damn low.

As a result not only you're forced into much slower combat. You are forced - if you have some addons like Combat Metrics, which allows you to see your DPS - into watching your efficiency drop like crazy.

So when I go to PTS and start beating my poor target dummy, not only am I feeling myself forced into long, sluggish and ugly mechanic. I'm feeling myself forced into long, sluggish, ugly, punishing mechanic.

I'm not quitting. But the only reason I'm not is that I'm at the same time a try-hard who wants to beat vMoL and a casual lore-nerd who likes TES lore and is excited about the opportunity to talk with Vivec.

When Morrowind comes out... I'll just go do some questing. Talk to Vivec, talk to Fyr, talk to my fellow Telvanni sorcerers mages... A vacation of sorts. 'Cause honestly? My DPS - duh, everyone's DPS - is still more than enough to faceroll overworld content. Faceroll it while drinking beer and being sleep-deprived at 5.00AM

But vet dungeons and trials? You know... At that point I feel like it doesn't even matter if I would be capable of that or not. Even if I would - I would most probably pass. Because any battle which is longer than 1.5 minutes feels boring and punishing beyond measure

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

My personal 2 cents into that discussion

This new state of the game is really desperately sad. From my experience in PTS - yes. You see that long and ugly HA animation from lightning staff much more often now. But even this isn't the end.

The other major - massive - turn-off in all this is that HAs are absolutely unrewarding.

I'm not Alcast or Gilliam, I honestly admit that I'm nowhere near their level. But personally I do not see any way now to make HA builds viable. The numbers are too damn low.

As a result not only you're forced into much slower combat. You are forced - if you have some addons like Combat Metrics, which allows you to see your DPS - into watching your efficiency drop like crazy.

So when I go to PTS and start beating my poor target dummy, not only am I feeling myself forced into long, sluggish and ugly mechanic. I'm feeling myself forced into long, sluggish, ugly, punishing mechanic.

I'm not quitting. But the only reason I'm not is that I'm at the same time a try-hard who wants to beat vMoL and a casual lore-nerd who likes TES lore and is excited about the opportunity to talk with Vivec.

When Morrowind comes out... I'll just go do some questing. Talk to Vivec, talk to Fyr, talk to my fellow Telvanni sorcerers mages... A vacation of sorts. 'Cause honestly? My DPS - duh, everyone's DPS - is still more than enough to faceroll overworld content. Faceroll it while drinking beer and being sleep-deprived at 5.00AM

But vet dungeons and trials? You know... At that point I feel like it doesn't even matter if I would be capable of that or not. Even if I would - I would most probably pass. Because any battle which is longer than 1.5 minutes feels boring and punishing beyond measure

Agreed.

That's the other part that the "just weave in some Heavy Attacks, it's not that hard L2P" crowd keeps glossing over.

Not only is ZOS reworking the base combat mechanics to all-but require weaving in HA's almost every other attack; they've also slightly lengthened the HA charge time, and they reduced the resource return from a successful HA...

Again, more changes that are contradictory to their stated goals for the game and these changes more specifically.

And as I alluded to in my OP; being forced to frequently use Heavy Attacks is a boring, mind-numbing, slow slog of game play. There's a reason that most peoples builds, for any type of character, are designed to use Class Skills 99% of the time and only use Heavy Attacks in those rare circumstances.

It's because Heavy Attacks slow combat down to a crawl, they don't return really any resources in any significant amounts, and their just not fun to use in any way.

But now we're being forced to weave them into our regular attack combos, at an alarming frequency, and they're going to be slower than before, and return less resources than before.

This is... it's just damn depressing...

Dantaria · May 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

It's because Heavy Attacks slow combat down to a crawl, they don't return really any resources in any significant amounts, and their just not fun to use in any way.

To be fair, personally I do feel that the Tenacity passive helps on PTS. The bit of resources you get back from HA is worth considering. But it's not enough to not be forced into HA after too short time for combat to feel dinamic.

And you stand there. And you watch this abysmally long charge. And you see your numbers dropping like crazy exactly because of it and nothing can be done, because Staff Expert passive is s**t...

When we apply this to any vet content with long battles things just look... Not worth to bother with.

Like... Come on. There has never been any good reason to run trials to begin with. The same applies for vet and vet HM dungeons.

Whatever for were we doing this? Gold jewellry? You have it after 3-4 runs. 2 keys in vet HM dungs? Well maybe...

But this - all of this - is not nearly enough reason to bother now, because there is zero fun. Zero. You HA and LA too often now

ofSunhold · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

But vet dungeons and trials? You know... At that point I feel like it doesn't even matter if I would be capable of that or not. Even if I would - I would most probably pass. Because any battle which is longer than 1.5 minutes feels boring and punishing beyond measure

Me too. Running dungeons was fun. It was so fun I queued into dungeon finder as a heals and ran PUGs just for the hell of it. It was amusing, and rewarding.

This experience is not happening on the PTS. Now I'll run dungeons for the gear I need, just like so many people, or make do with something easier to get because dungeons suck now.

I like to think they're going somewhere with this. There are hints of a pattern they don't ever mention, going back at least two updates. I so hope this is not just wishful thinking.

I'm sorry you're feeling this way, OP. There are people I wanted to keep playing with who have quit in despair after checking out the PTS, and that alone makes me hate this update.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · May 2017

can't agree with you more op. I feel the folks that consistently agree with the changes looming over all of us are the casual players with no ties to this game at all. the proposed changes aren't going to promote more people to dedicated players imo. I feel once they get a feel for the combat system an realise so much is out of there grasp they'll find something else. all I can say is this next chapter will be worst iteration in eso's combat system. I understand zos is can and will do whatever they want but it's also a business so disenfranchising your most dedicated player base makes no sence.