Nerfing BSW with no Necro nerf another slap in the face to every non-Sorc

Feanor · May 2017

You all remember the time when Sorc pets were not only situationally useful and clunky (they still are, and still taking up 4 bar slots), but were so underpowered that you only saw them in RP?

Apparently it was ok for the non-Sorcs to have 2/3 of an entire class skill line to be useless. Then pets got buffed. Still they were not widely used because of the restrictions they bring, namely the 4 bar slots. 4 slots is a lot. Because ZOS was stubborn and didn't want to redesign the Daedric summoning skill line they buffed pets some more to the point where we are now.

Pets still have only 15k HP, die a lot if you don't constantly shield and heal them, have no UI whatsoever, and will often not even fight (hello my familiar, nice you join the fray after the boss is dead).

If you reduce the damage significantly we will be back to the state where pets are fluffy RP. I get the Sorc OP plox nerf hard train here, but one should be wary of what one wishes for.

As for Necropotence, it's an old set that reaches as far back as 1.3 (http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necropotence+Set). It already was nerfed when the 5pc was changed from 12% max Magicka to 10% max Magicka to 4000 Magicka flat in gold quality. The set is not the problem.

Nerf Sorc is the deal of the day. It will be another class next round again. On the end all these nerf cycles only mean one thing - less fun overall in the game. Nobody can want that.

Transairion · May 2017

Now all they need to do is nerf the pets and the game will be relatively fine. At least all classes will suck, more or less, equally as much.

How much damage sorc pets do and their scaling of only magica is not.

What a time to be alive, calls for Daedric Summoning pets to be nerfed. Except it's only one pet, in one very specific build... Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey crit spam. Matriarch and Lightning Antronach still aren't really viable summons, but oh no Familiar the DPS morph is actually doing DPS better nerf anything and everything that effects it.

For the uninformed and ranting, Daedric Summons ONLY scale off Max Magicka and their attacks can't crit at all. Only Volatile Familar's AOE Pulse can crit because it's the only offensive activated ability across ALL the three Daedric summons. Twilight Tormentor's is only a basic attack buff when the foe is a certain health %, and it's the worst morph in the game.

Wasn't it just last year there were calls for Daedric Summoning to be entirely removed as a skill tree "because useless!!", but now Volatile Familiar and only Familiar is doing good DPS and we gotta gut it?

All those slow years of "Sorc summons worthless please buff" and once one becomes properly viable, undo all those fixes?

Sorry, but LOL.

DerpyShadowz · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DerpyShadowz wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Burning spellweave was overrated as hell. It was only somewhat better than julianos (like 70 spell damage average).

With the new changes, even at maximum theoretical uptime it wouldn't compete with the buffed war maiden set. (66% uptime * 525 spell damage = 346, worse than war maiden's 400).

Burning Spellweave is increased by Major prophecy etc, the War maidens 400, is a flat value that only increases the skills tooltip, it doesn't gain anything extra from Major/minor prophecy like Spellweave because its not applied to your actual spell damage stat.

You don't even know the correct buff name and you expect me to take you seriously? And major sorcery does apply to war maiden.

Was a simple early morning mistake, Chill out a bit dude.

Perhaps they changed it this recent patch, it was the same reason why Sun wasn't BiS for DK in PvE, because it was a flat buff and can not be boosted through other sources, perhaps they have fixed that recently with sets of this nature that apply to certain damage types, and if that is the case, then i am wrong (And if that really is the case, then Sun should get the same treatment)

Either way its still a bad set personally, A good portion of few classes damage comes from Fire & Shock, which this wont benefit.

EDIT: Watch Gilliam's video, he explains this in the same way, And Gilliam's a smart dude.

https://youtu.be/U2b-RrR0lHw?t=37m51s

clocksstoppe · May 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DerpyShadowz wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Burning spellweave was overrated as hell. It was only somewhat better than julianos (like 70 spell damage average).

With the new changes, even at maximum theoretical uptime it wouldn't compete with the buffed war maiden set. (66% uptime * 525 spell damage = 346, worse than war maiden's 400).

Burning Spellweave is increased by Major prophecy etc, the War maidens 400, is a flat value that only increases the skills tooltip, it doesn't gain anything extra from Major/minor prophecy like Spellweave because its not applied to your actual spell damage stat.

You don't even know the correct buff name and you expect me to take you seriously? And major sorcery does apply to war maiden.

Major Sorcery and Major Brutality does not affect sets like Ysgramor, Netch, SotS, War Maiden, Automaton etc
It's why these sets are not worth using at the moment, and unless they fix that, it won't change.

Yes it *** does. I just went on live server and tested sword singer set and it literally does the same damage if you replace it with its equivalent "true" weapon damage bonus. Again, if you have no idea what you are talking about, shut up. All sets that say "Adds x damage to your y type abilities" give you REAL WEAPON/SPELL DAMAGE that gets buffed by major sorcery/brutality.

Qbiken · May 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

BSW was nerfed because it was too good no matter how you look at it, there simply wasn't another choice that came close.

Necropotence isn't in that same boat, when the pet dies, and it will, often. The damage it provides goes into the chute. Then you have to resummon, and start over again and again.

That said someone suggested that the 5 piece bonus should give something (1500?) for the fifth piece if you don't have a pet, so that other classes and builds can use it.

So just because some theorycrafters once found out that BSW would be considered BiS it deserved a nerf?? Just because the majority of players use a certain set/sets does it deserve a nerf?? The answer is no

There will always be set(s) considered BiS that the majority of players will use. The so called "diversity" is created by yourself, not my ZOS. All sets can´t perform equal in all situations, that´s not balance and neither is it diversity if everything is on the same level for all content/purpose (sry for lack of proper word to describe it) There´s no logic in nerfing stuff just because it´s popular or BiS. If that was the case we would have to nerf half of the sets in the game.....

It´s another thing to nerf stuff if they´re overperforning or not working as intended, that I´m all for. But was BSW "overperforming"? Not really if you ask me. It sure is/was a strong set, but once again: Just because something is considered "the best" and is the most used set, doesn´t mean it needs a nerf/fix.

I'm not insulting you or your intellect. I just want to ask, you understand the difference between something overperforming by say, 5% and something overperforming by say 15% right? How about 20%? More? In the 5% case you're right. It doesn't need a nerf, the latter *probably* should. So they did.

No offence to me or my intellect taken

. I must confess that I don´t have any numbers to 100% support my claims but if it´s overperforming (compared to what may I ask??) then a tweak/nerf can be needed. But what gets me the most is the way the devs motivates the change. They motivate it by claiming they want to create "divirsity".....you don´t create divirsity by nerfing sets, you just makes people move towards Another meta.

Mush55 · May 2017

And here we are with you arguing amongst yourselves. Defend or flame sorcs , it's not the class it's the developer same goes with the cp change and also BSW nerf and a myriad of other mind blowing decisions that are being introduced.

All in all this clearly shows that they Zos don't have a frickin clue what they are doing with them wanting all classes to be good at everything and perform every task equally well.

The only thing over performing is the cluelessness that the devs have about there own game. I could write an entire page but we all know the score that if they had a clear direction in the beginning instead of their haphazard way of plugging the gaps with vet ranks then cp's and separated PvE and PvP or at least make skills work differently in each enviroment (god forbid)The game would not be in the total turn around state as it is now.

I'm out I tried to see the positives in the beginning but with each patch my enthusiasm gets lower to where we are now the above explains some of this.................................

Derra · May 2017

Transairion wrote: »

Now all they need to do is nerf the pets and the game will be relatively fine. At least all classes will suck, more or less, equally as much.

How much damage sorc pets do and their scaling of only magica is not.

What a time to be alive, calls for Daedric Summoning pets to be nerfed. Except it's only one pet, in one very specific build... Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey crit spam. Matriarch and Lightning Antronach still aren't really viable summons, but oh no Familiar the DPS morph is actually doing DPS better nerf anything and everything that effects it.

For the uninformed and ranting, Daedric Summons ONLY scale off Max Magicka and their attacks can't crit at all. Only Volatile Familar's AOE Pulse can crit because it's the only offensive activated ability across ALL the three Daedric summons. Twilight Tormentor's is only a basic attack buff when the foe is a certain health %, and it's the worst morph in the game.

Wasn't it just last year there were calls for Daedric Summoning to be entirely removed as a skill tree "because useless!!", but now Volatile Familiar and only Familiar is doing good DPS and we gotta gut it?

All those slow years of "Sorc summons worthless please buff" and once one becomes properly viable, undo all those fixes?

Sorry, but LOL.

I´ve made the statement about ~1.5 years ago that if you ever want pets to be vaible outside of niche builds they´d have to be so absurdly overbuffed to compensate for the inconvinience of using them that they would in return make sorcs OP in the scenarios where they are usable.
That´s exactly what happened.
Volatile familiar isn´t in the realm of good dps - it´s insane dps and almost the sole reason why sorcs outperform all other classes by a large margin at the moment.

As for the uninformed: All pet attacks (twilight zap, attronarch channel, volatile familar zap an pulse) can crit - with the sorcs magical critical rating (and base crit modifier). Get your facts straight.

John_1999 · May 2017

Its a Buff if you don't use BSW.

Draqone · May 2017

Transairion wrote: »

For the uninformed and ranting, Daedric Summons ONLY scale off Max Magicka and their attacks can't crit at all. Only Volatile Familar's AOE Pulse can crit because it's the only offensive activated ability across ALL the three Daedric summons. Twilight Tormentor's is only a basic attack buff when the foe is a certain health %, and it's the worst morph in the game.

Kay1 · May 2017

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Honest question. With nerf to proc chance and strength of buff, is BSW now worse than Julianos?

It still better, people tend to overreact they are currently in the "creating new meta" phase.

"now Julianos will be better for xx if you use xx because bsw is now *** *** you Zenimax necro is broken"

DPShiro · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DerpyShadowz wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Burning spellweave was overrated as hell. It was only somewhat better than julianos (like 70 spell damage average).

With the new changes, even at maximum theoretical uptime it wouldn't compete with the buffed war maiden set. (66% uptime * 525 spell damage = 346, worse than war maiden's 400).

Burning Spellweave is increased by Major prophecy etc, the War maidens 400, is a flat value that only increases the skills tooltip, it doesn't gain anything extra from Major/minor prophecy like Spellweave because its not applied to your actual spell damage stat.

You don't even know the correct buff name and you expect me to take you seriously? And major sorcery does apply to war maiden.

Major Sorcery and Major Brutality does not affect sets like Ysgramor, Netch, SotS, War Maiden, Automaton etc
It's why these sets are not worth using at the moment, and unless they fix that, it won't change.

Yes it *** does. I just went on live server and tested sword singer set and it literally does the same damage if you replace it with its equivalent "true" weapon damage bonus. Again, if you have no idea what you are talking about, shut up. All sets that say "Adds x damage to your y type abilities" give you REAL WEAPON/SPELL DAMAGE that gets buffed by major sorcery/brutality.

No, it does not. And swearing and using caps doesn't change that.

It's even been confirmed by @Asayre and @Alcast and others.

You are wrong, stop spreading false information.

clocksstoppe · May 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DerpyShadowz wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Burning spellweave was overrated as hell. It was only somewhat better than julianos (like 70 spell damage average).

With the new changes, even at maximum theoretical uptime it wouldn't compete with the buffed war maiden set. (66% uptime * 525 spell damage = 346, worse than war maiden's 400).

Burning Spellweave is increased by Major prophecy etc, the War maidens 400, is a flat value that only increases the skills tooltip, it doesn't gain anything extra from Major/minor prophecy like Spellweave because its not applied to your actual spell damage stat.

You don't even know the correct buff name and you expect me to take you seriously? And major sorcery does apply to war maiden.

Major Sorcery and Major Brutality does not affect sets like Ysgramor, Netch, SotS, War Maiden, Automaton etc
It's why these sets are not worth using at the moment, and unless they fix that, it won't change.

Yes it *** does. I just went on live server and tested sword singer set and it literally does the same damage if you replace it with its equivalent "true" weapon damage bonus. Again, if you have no idea what you are talking about, shut up. All sets that say "Adds x damage to your y type abilities" give you REAL WEAPON/SPELL DAMAGE that gets buffed by major sorcery/brutality.

No, it does not. And swearing and using caps doesn't change that.

It's even been confirmed by @Asayre and @Alcast and others.

You are wrong, stop spreading false information.

Well it's sad that Alcast doesn't know what he is talking about either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExStwCUlPM

Go test it yourself if you don't believe me. But don't be a clown and take what some popular streamer says for granted.

pattyLtd · May 2017

This is so dumb.
They unexpectedly slightly nerfed bsw and all it leads to is people starting to whine about other sets that should be nerfed.
Of course all perfectly in line with the "Nerf Sorcs too" crowd.

I don't agree with most of the changes but honestly not listening to the forums too much might be a good thing, go figure

altemriel · May 2017

pattyLtd wrote: »

This is so dumb.
They unexpectedly slightly nerfed bsw and all it leads to is people starting to whine about other sets that should be nerfed.
Of course all perfectly in line with the "Nerf Sorcs too" crowd.

I don't agree with most of the changes but honestly not listening to the forums too much might be a good thing, go figure

they should buff the other sets instead, not nerf the BIS sets!

Nelson_Rebel · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

You all remember the time when Sorc pets were not only situationally useful and clunky (they still are, and still taking up 4 bar slots), but were so underpowered that you only saw them in RP?

Apparently it was ok for the non-Sorcs to have 2/3 of an entire class skill line to be useless. Then pets got buffed. Still they were not widely used because of the restrictions they bring, namely the 4 bar slots. 4 slots is a lot. Because ZOS was stubborn and didn't want to redesign the Daedric summoning skill line they buffed pets some more to the point where we are now.

Pets still have only 15k HP, die a lot if you don't constantly shield and heal them, have no UI whatsoever, and will often not even fight (hello my familiar, nice you join the fray after the boss is dead).

If you reduce the damage significantly we will be back to the state where pets are fluffy RP. I get the Sorc OP plox nerf hard train here, but one should be wary of what one wishes for.

As for Necropotence, it's an old set that reaches as far back as 1.3 (http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necropotence+Set). It already was nerfed when the 5pc was changed from 12% max Magicka to 10% max Magicka to 4000 Magicka flat in gold quality. The set is not the problem.

Nerf Sorc is the deal of the day. It will be another class next round again. On the end all these nerf cycles only mean one thing - less fun overall in the game. Nobody can want that.

Agreed nobody wants that.

But if YOUR class was made irrelevant because of another one that's ALREADY used as 7/8 Damage Dealer spots in every trial, you can easily see why there's bitterness here

pattyLtd · May 2017

altemriel wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

This is so dumb.
They unexpectedly slightly nerfed bsw and all it leads to is people starting to whine about other sets that should be nerfed.
Of course all perfectly in line with the "Nerf Sorcs too" crowd.

I don't agree with most of the changes but honestly not listening to the forums too much might be a good thing, go figure

they should buff the other sets instead, not nerf the BIS sets!

Oh i definetly agree with you but that's an entirely different scope.
They shouldn't even consider adding more nerfs to this patch, enough is enough.

Better to spend their time looking over the planned changes currently on PTS and ask themselves how much of these are really necessary to make resource management matter again but they won't.

altemriel · May 2017

pattyLtd wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

This is so dumb.
They unexpectedly slightly nerfed bsw and all it leads to is people starting to whine about other sets that should be nerfed.
Of course all perfectly in line with the "Nerf Sorcs too" crowd.

I don't agree with most of the changes but honestly not listening to the forums too much might be a good thing, go figure

they should buff the other sets instead, not nerf the BIS sets!

Oh i definetly agree with you but that's an entirely different scope.
They shouldn't even consider adding more nerfs to this patch, enough is enough.

Better to spend their time looking over the planned changes currently on PTS and ask themselves how much of these are really necessary to make resource management matter again but they won't.

yes

Edziu · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

There are only four possibilities:

1) ZOS does not listen to player feedback. (There has been a huge amount of consistent, clear, well-documented feedback in-game, on the forums, on Youtube, and elsewhere showing how drastically far ahead sorcs are for multiple patches.)
2) ZOS does listen to player feedback, but in this case don't care: they are fine with sorcs consistently outperforming other classes in PVE by gross margins.
3) ZOS does listen to player feedback, but they can't figure out how to fix this problem.
4) ZOS does listen to player feedback, and 3.0.4 will finally respond to it on this issue.

Really hoping it's the last one.

1) very likely
2) more very likely because of what I see since 1st morrowind patch notes
3) impossible....they are just destroying it more that it was on start so revert it will fix it more then trying to fix it other way
4) more impossible...if they just destoying it more from patch to patch without touching many important think like still sorc, dk etc..I just dont see if they will finally do something, just look now on last patch...less and lesser class skills changing but if change its still nothing good/enough/important

theamazingx · May 2017

Zarrakon wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

The gap in DPS parses is already absolutely massive. 40k+ from Sorc pet builds whereas Mag DK and Mag Templar are at ~32k and Mag NB at ~30k.

BSW is absolutely essential for Mag DKs and Mag Templars. Mag Sorcs have access to one of the most broken, overtuned sets in the game to use with their overpowered pet build.

Once again, Zenimax gives a huge middle finger to any non-Sorc player in ESO.

The 40k+ sorcerer parses are on live with already unsustainable builds (i.e. they wouldn't be able to achieve that on the robust dummy on live, and they definitely won't be able to achieve that in Morrowind). On top of that, these are all on the training dummy, and most of the people that post parses this high don't have a ward slotted (which is absolutely necessary to keep the familiar alive in a lot of fights). I don't think you've even begun to think about how hard it is to use the familiar in trials.

Just a few things off the top of my head:
There are several points where the familiar bugs out and doesn't appear until after an encounter (notably in AA), or completely ignores attack commands (in MoL). You have two wasted bar slots whenever this happens.

The familiar will die every prayer phase on the twins in vMoL. It also takes several seconds for it to switch targets when ordered (and sometimes, it will outright ignore you). And you need to slot ward to keep it alive on Vashai (it will die if left in the negate unwarded for 3-4 seconds, and does not move fast at all).

The familiar will die every time lightning is channeled in the first boss in vAA, unless you cast ward.

The Serpent on hard mode will kill the familiar on every cast of world shaper (roughly every ~15-20 seconds).

The familiar does not follow you down the portal against the Mantikora.

The familiar will die on Ra-Kotu if you don't use ward.

Honestly, the BSW nerf was probably targeted at sorcerers (who could keep BSW up for long enough to be worthwhile just using blockade and maybe Ilambris). Personally, I think it would've been better to keep the spell damage where it is and just reduce the proc chance to 10% or 12% (so that DKs could reliably keep it up, but other classes cannot).

No, the 40k parses are coming from sorc self buffed reports on the pts. With fully sustained heavy attack adaptations of builds that are pulling significantly higher numbers on live. Even DKs have a ceiling over 40k on live. Day 1 I had a parse linked to me of a sorc solo sustained 39k. How well sustained you may ask? It was done on one of the new raid test dummies.

I agree that the varying viability of pets should be taken into account. When sorcs can have a pet out, they should be on the top of the charts. But perhaps 10-15% above literally everyone else, instead of 25%, and their ceiling in pet-unfriendly fights being a little lower than everyone else.

And I know there's a lot of talk about necro here - not sure why. Necro isn't OP itself, magwarden is weak enough as is. Scamps just need a little kick on the head.

Izaki · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Burning spellweave was overrated as hell. It was only somewhat better than julianos (like 70 spell damage average).

With the new changes, even at maximum theoretical uptime it wouldn't compete with the buffed war maiden set. (66% uptime * 525 spell damage = 346, worse than war maiden's 400).

Except that you can't compare sets based on average stats. The reason why BSW is better than Julianos or Sun is because the peak damage is much higher than with anyother set. For example, if you BSW is proc'ed while you drop a destro ultimate, the said ultimate will deal more damage than Julianos and will boost your overall DPS more.

Izaki · May 2017

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

@Minalan How the *** do you defend a class wich has 15% more DPS than the rest playing ranged while others are in melee range, having to use beast trap and all..? Do you really think that doing this the game gets any better?

Nerfing Necro is not balancing the game, its rendering a set useless. Nerfing the Scamp is balancing the game.

Izaki · May 2017

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

4000 magicka is equal to around 400 spell damage, and it requires that you keep a pet up. So many ignorant whine posts

4000 magicka is more than 400 spell damage because with all the modifiers it's not 4000 magicka in the end but more (in some cases like sorcerer high elfs up to 20% more), don't say the whole community is ignorant when it's you not knowing what are talking about. But it also adds better healing, better shields, better ultimates, magicka boosts absolutely everything since it's the base stats.

It is overtuned because it requires a pet to be up. Wich is fine, since wardens need this set so bad to be competitive (and even then they're not at the moment in terms of PvE dps). Problem is Sorcerer is doing WAY TOO MUCH DAMAGE over time, they also HAVE THE BURST, they also have the DEFENCE, they also are RANGED. Stop defending sorcerers they need a nerf. although probably the nerf is not on necropotence but in their base damage on some skills.

Major sorcery buff increases spell damage by 20%, his point is that it's about the same.

I know you're not going to listen because you're a sorc hater, but I thought I'd point that out.

The potato threads have been strong lately, and it's the same five or six guys posting all day.

Excuse me but even friends wich are sorcerers admit they're way over the top, go test somethings in PTS you'll see that a good sorc pulls out a lot of dps and there's a huge gap from them to other classes and its a DAMN FACT that they're RANGED wich is more convenient than melee since they loose less dps when mooving.

Just trying to have a balanced game man, what is your problem.

Mina still raised a valid point. Spell Damage benefits from a few modifiers too, namely Minor and Major Sorcery. So yes, its pretty obvious that by telling everyone that they don't know what they are talking about in the end its pretty obvious that you're the one who's ignorant

Nelson_Rebel · May 2017

nerf scamp and liquid lightning damage by about 5%-8% each, reduce splash damage from lighting staves by 5%

Do this and sorcerers won't be so overpowered, necro won't be useless and other classes will have a chance to participate in content again instead of "sorc or gtfo"

Stamden · May 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

nerf scamp and liquid lightning damage by about 5%-8% each, reduce splash damage from lighting staves by 5%

Do this and sorcerers won't be so overpowered, necro won't be useless and other classes will have a chance to participate in content again instead of "sorc or gtfo"

40,000 x 0.95 (assuming these changes would lead to a raw 5% decrease in damage, which they wouldn't even) = 38,000

Still miles ahead of every other class. Sorc abilities need significant damage nerfs. Atleast 30% to things like scamps, and some reasonable nerfs to Curse and LL too.

Transairion · May 2017

I´ve made the statement about ~1.5 years ago that if you ever want pets to be vaible outside of niche builds they´d have to be so absurdly overbuffed to compensate for the inconvinience of using them that they would in return make sorcs OP in the scenarios where they are usable.
That´s exactly what happened.
Volatile familiar isn´t in the realm of good dps - it´s insane dps and almost the sole reason why sorcs outperform all other classes by a large margin at the moment.

As for the uninformed: All pet attacks (twilight zap, attronarch channel, volatile familar zap an pulse) can crit - with the sorcs magical critical rating (and base crit modifier). Get your facts straight

Seems the Wiki I'd been using was woefully out of date on combat pets, since apparently this has been a thing since 1.6 and they didn't list it on the combat pet page:

Pets
Pets now take 90% less damage from AoE’s, up from 50% less damage.
The Crit rating for pets is now equal to your Spell Crit rating.
Summoning a pet no longer reduces your available magicka.

My particular pet build never focused on Crits so it was completely indifferent to me, and I've never seen Pet Criticals even mentioned until now. Allow me to apologize for being so blatantly mistaken then.

However, this does beg the question: since 1.6 pets have been able to crit, yet they've never been considered anything more than niche (or outright trash tier skills) since then. Most of the buffs to summons since 1.6 (few and far between) were all focused on survivability to counter their flawed AI.

Therefore, isn't the entire reason Volatile Familiar is now "broken OP" due to one single bugfix where Scamp didn't get any/full benefit from Daedric Prey?

Even in all these damage parses, almost half of Familiar's damage output is coming from crits (near 50% and oddly, Pulse is critting almost 10% more than Familiar melee and Matriach Zap??). Adding crits to pets was barely noticed by anyone until this more recent bugfix, it certainly didn't make them viable or even mentionable until lately.

Sooooooo just remove crits from pets and bump up their base damage to compensate? The meta Sorc build is a crit machine, no crits and Scamp is worthless to it (and by extention Daedric Prey).

Pet Sorcs aren't gutted to deal with one single build.

Waffennacht · May 2017

I didn't know Sorcs were the only ones allowed to use Necro

SanTii.92 · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Burning spellweave was overrated as hell. It was only somewhat better than julianos (like 70 spell damage average).

With the new changes, even at maximum theoretical uptime it wouldn't compete with the buffed war maiden set. (66% uptime * 525 spell damage = 346, worse than war maiden's 400).

uhm, are you even aware that maiden only increase spell damage on magic damage abilities? Means no blockade, no light attacks, no destro ult, etc. Set won't ever be worth for pve.

bubbygink · May 2017

I don't get why people in this thread keep bringing up stuff like "wow remember when sorc pets used to be so bad." That has literally nothing to do with the point of this thread. It doesn't matter how the game "used to be." The bottom line is that it is entirely indisputable that mag sorcs have a far better DPS than any other class. Period. I just don't get how anybody who cares about balance can defend this. Sorc PvE DPS clearly needs a nerf or the other classes to be brought up in line. I don't get how there can even be an argument against this. Balance PvE DPS, ZoS.

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

@Minalan How the *** do you defend a class wich has 15% more DPS than the rest playing ranged while others are in melee range, having to use beast trap and all..? Do you really think that doing this the game gets any better?

Nerfing Necro is not balancing the game, its rendering a set useless. Nerfing the Scamp is balancing the game.

3 of 5 classes in game can benefit from it too much to ignore, replacing max magicka 2/3/4 set effects with something different will bring it to the line with destruction mastery, where it should be

Tannus15 wrote: »

But every class can use it with "Maw of the Infernal"

With it's zero-chance proc and 15s TTL? Gl at trying to make it work

Transairion · May 2017

I don't get why people in this thread keep bringing up stuff like "wow remember when sorc pets used to be so bad." That has literally nothing to do with the point of this thread. It doesn't matter how the game "used to be."

It has everything to do with this thread, considering it wasn't so long ago it was begged for Necropotence to LOSE the pet requirement so it could match the generic +2000 stamina set (I forget the name). Pet Sorcs in general were also considered a gimmick that didn't work, with threads to make them "unable to steal buffs" by not being able to be buffed at all ingame.

One single Sorc build happens to be meta, and it (ab)uses the Volatile Familiar bugfix to Pulse crit spam out high DPS.

Blinding nerfing an item set "because it's in the meta now" after existing for literally YEARS in a balanced, niche state where Sorcs didn't even normally use it is an insane leap of logic. You know people still want to use things after the meta crowd drops it like a hot potato right?

I'd rather the Scamp's bugfix be reverted or summons unable to crit than having the Scamp's damage gutted to weaker-than-pre-bugfix levels to deal with a single build. Same with Necropotence, except that has already been nerfed TWICE throughout it's lifetime (it was originally gave 12% of your max magicka. Then 10%. Then 4000 like now. It STILL wasn't popular because of pet requirement). It was the only set in the game for pet builds for a long time.

3 of 5 classes in game can benefit from it too much to ignore, replacing max magicka 2/3/4 set effects with something different will bring it to the line with destruction mastery, where it should be

Right, it was so amazingly good all this time that only Nightblades ever used it because Shades are immortal and only take one bar slot total? Where were you championing Necropotence, what, even a 6 months ago?

Destruction Mastery doesn't have a pet requirement, and Necropotence is literally just a resource booster because it was designed for Pet Sorcerors back when the only scaling pets had WAS max magicka. You change Necropotence to "Combat Pets do 50% more damage" then sure, but it's literally the original Pet Sorc set... you start giving it crappy set effects that have nothing to do with pets, and you destroy the only purpose it has.