Nerfing BSW with no Necro nerf another slap in the face to every non-Sorc

Stamden

The gap in DPS parses is already absolutely massive. 40k+ from Sorc pet builds whereas Mag DK and Mag Templar are at ~32k and Mag NB at ~30k.

BSW is absolutely essential for Mag DKs and Mag Templars. Mag Sorcs have access to one of the most broken, overtuned sets in the game to use with their overpowered pet build.

Once again, Zenimax gives a huge middle finger to any non-Sorc player in ESO.

spiiros

They want "variety" in sets.

Necro Necro Necro!

bUxx222

Its diversity... lol

Tannus15

But every class can use it with "Maw of the Infernal"

Vaoh

Necropotence is fine.

This set helps out Magicka Warden more than any other class (basically 100% uptime with Blue Betty) and Magicka NB.

Magicka Sorc is not strong because of the Necroptence. Its strong because the skills themselves are dealing too much damage. I'm looking at you Volatile Familiar.....

casparian

In another context, this could have been fine. With BSW best for DKs, Necro best for sorcs, and other things now possibly best for other classes (Scathing for Magblade?), there could have been some nice diversity in endgame builds, instead of BSW being the best for every class. The problem is that on live and on PTS, it doesn't really matter what's BIS for non-sorcs, since sorcs are so overtuned and so drastically ahead of the other classes in DPS. As it stands, nerfing non-sorcs' best set without giving them anything else to bring them up to sorcs' level is just baffling.

There are only four possibilities:

- ZOS does not listen to player feedback. (There has been a huge amount of consistent, clear, well-documented feedback in-game, on the forums, on Youtube, and elsewhere showing how drastically far ahead sorcs are for multiple patches.)
- ZOS does listen to player feedback, but in this case don't care: they are fine with sorcs consistently outperforming other classes in PVE by gross margins.
- ZOS does listen to player feedback, but they can't figure out how to fix this problem.
- ZOS does listen to player feedback, and 3.0.4 will finally respond to it on this issue.

Really hoping it's the last one.

STEVIL

Vaoh wrote: »

Necropotence is fine.

This set helps out Magicka Warden more than any other class (basically 100% uptime with Blue Betty) and Magicka NB.

Magicka Sorc is not strong because of the Necroptence. Its strong because the skills themselves are dealing too much damage. I'm looking at you Volatile Familiar.....

Agreed... i right now have necro on magblades and i dont think any on my sorcs... I expect to equip my Argonian warden as well once cap is reached.

Domander

No, it's not.

casparian

And another thing: I also don't want to see a Necro nerf. It's such a cool set for pet users (not just sorcs), and I'm quite happy there's a set that gives pet builds an actually endgame-relevant buff for having pets out.

Now all we need are buffs to the other classes/their sets.

Draqone

It's not necro that's the problem, it's the sorc damage numbers.

Alpheu5

How did mag sorcs go from the laughing stock of the bunch to God-tier overlords in the span of time between One Tamriel and now? Because none of that OPness is rubbing off on me.

Stamden

casparian wrote: »

- ZOS does listen to player feedback, but in this case don't care: they are fine with sorcs consistently outperforming other classes in PVE by gross margins.

Unfortunately, I think this is the most likely case. What is scary is that it goes beyond just PvE overperformance, it's just that PvE has the easiest data to analyze so it's very clear when the Zenimax is blatantly choosing to ignore the problem. The problem extends to every aspect of the Sorcerer class in all aspects of the game. When we look at PvP, Mag Sorcs are also complete monsters right now and Stam Sorc will always be the best stam/hybrid setup in the game. In no aspect of the game is the class of Sorcerer not best-in-class or top tier. It is obvious that Zenimax has a huge bias toward this class and this has been going on for years.

Nelson_Rebel

gdamnit is this foreal?? what the fu are they doing in there? ONLY playing sorcs? do they not see the imbalance here?!?!??!?

I give up, f'ing pointless now

Zarrakon

Neighbor wrote: »

The gap in DPS parses is already absolutely massive. 40k+ from Sorc pet builds whereas Mag DK and Mag Templar are at ~32k and Mag NB at ~30k.

BSW is absolutely essential for Mag DKs and Mag Templars. Mag Sorcs have access to one of the most broken, overtuned sets in the game to use with their overpowered pet build.

Once again, Zenimax gives a huge middle finger to any non-Sorc player in ESO.

The 40k+ sorcerer parses are on live with already unsustainable builds (i.e. they wouldn't be able to achieve that on the robust dummy on live, and they definitely won't be able to achieve that in Morrowind). On top of that, these are all on the training dummy, and most of the people that post parses this high don't have a ward slotted (which is absolutely necessary to keep the familiar alive in a lot of fights). I don't think you've even begun to think about how hard it is to use the familiar in trials.

Just a few things off the top of my head:

• There are several points where the familiar bugs out and doesn't appear until after an encounter (notably in AA), or completely ignores attack commands (in MoL). You have two wasted bar slots whenever this happens.
• The familiar will die every prayer phase on the twins in vMoL. It also takes several seconds for it to switch targets when ordered (and sometimes, it will outright ignore you). And you need to slot ward to keep it alive on Vashai (it will die if left in the negate unwarded for 3-4 seconds, and does not move fast at all).
• The familiar will die every time lightning is channeled in the first boss in vAA, unless you cast ward.
• The Serpent on hard mode will kill the familiar on every cast of world shaper (roughly every ~15-20 seconds).
• The familiar does not follow you down the portal against the Mantikora.
• The familiar will die on Ra-Kotu if you don't use ward.

Honestly, the BSW nerf was probably targeted at sorcerers (who could keep BSW up for long enough to be worthwhile just using blockade and maybe Ilambris). Personally, I think it would've been better to keep the spell damage where it is and just reduce the proc chance to 10% or 12% (so that DKs could reliably keep it up, but other classes cannot).

Minalan

BSW was nerfed because it was too good no matter how you look at it, there simply wasn't another choice that came close.

Necropotence isn't in that same boat, when the pet dies, and it will, often. The damage it provides goes into the chute. Then you have to resummon, and start over again and again.

That said someone suggested that the 5 piece bonus should give something (1500?) for the fifth piece if you don't have a pet, so that other classes and builds can use it.

Dagoth_Rac

Honest question. With nerf to proc chance and strength of buff, is BSW now worse than Julianos?

Minalan

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Honest question. With nerf to proc chance and strength of buff, is BSW now worse than Julianos?

I want to know the answer to this as well, is the average parse similar now? BSW still has the extra 129 spell damage with the third piece.

Mattock_Romulus

Clamoring for the nerfing of others OP? You are not being a good @Neighbor right now.

Why don't you ask for buffs instead?

Zarrakon

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Honest question. With nerf to proc chance and strength of buff, is BSW now worse than Julianos?

If it's up 67% of the time (which is the maximum), it's only marginally better than the 5-piece on Julianos (giving an average of 350 spell damage). Julianos is already pretty powerful, so this isn't a bad thing. And I like that this change (along with sustain changes in general) makes the 5-piece on Moondancer a much more attractive option than it currently is.

If you're a DK, you won't have it up 67% of the time, but even at 60% uptime it'd still slightly beat out Julianos just in terms of average spell damage on the 5-piece bonus (315 vs. 300). But it also boosts the chance to set enemies on fire (which is not insignificant), and if you're good about timing your ultimates, you can get the full 525 spell damage for the full duration of your destro ult.

Moiskormoimi

Yeah I just don't care any more. They're obviously trying to maximize the most profit out of the chapter knowing they pulled some shadow (albeit 'legal') business practices to do it. I've accepted this is the new norm from gaming companies (played many other mmos and it is pretty consistent). I'm still going to play until the enjoyment is gone and I find something else I want to play. Maybe sooner than later, and this is after coming back after a long hiatus to begin with but meh. Best I can offer as advice is play until you feel you're not getting your money's worth, then step away. It's ok to care about the game, but don't be a masochist about it.

Asgari

Necro is a warden set too. cant nerf that

MehrunesFlagon

Considering alot of the results you have seen so far. I would say be careful what you wish for.

Masel

5 moondancer will be BiS next patch. That recovery gets you to so much more sustain (1900 recovery on my magblade while it's active), and the shadow blessing gives you a lot more damage. Still testing out a lot atm, but you can beat 30k easily on a magblade with 5 MD, 3 Willpower, 2 Illambris (all 7 light with one big health glyph), double vMA staffs with a drain magicka XI poison on main bar. Great sustain and you don't sacrifice a lot of damage. If you don't like illambris you can also run scathing/necropotence/tbs/julianos.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Honest question. With nerf to proc chance and strength of buff, is BSW now worse than Julianos?

I want to know the answer to this as well, is the average parse similar now? BSW still has the extra 129 spell damage with the third piece.

And Julianos has 3% extra crit. I personally find the extra crit more valuable in PvE as a 1pc bonus, which is also the main reason why I use Aether over Moondancer. For most DPS sets, you only need to compare the 5th piece boni.

Domander

4000 magicka is equal to around 400 spell damage, and it requires that you keep a pet up. So many ignorant whine posts

Izaki

Masel92 wrote: »

5 moondancer will be BiS next patch. That recovery gets you to so much more sustain (1900 recovery on my magblade while it's active), and the shadow blessing gives you a lot more damage. Still testing out a lot atm, but you can beat 30k easily on a magblade with 5 MD, 3 Willpower, 2 Illambris (all 7 light with one big health glyph), double vMA staffs with a drain magicka XI poison on main bar. Great sustain and you don't sacrifice a lot of damage. If you don't like illambris you can also run scathing/necropotence/tbs/julianos.

Yeah, pretty much this^ Moondancer is indeed going to be amazing next patch, but I'm afraid that it won't be enough to outparse and outsustain a heavy attack build.
That being said, its possible. But i don't think that the 7 light is really needed. You're going to be activating Orbs and Shards at least every 30sec which gives you sustain and then, the other synergies also restore resources via the undaunted passives.

dpencil1

Remember when you'd get laughed at for using pets?

My, how times have changed.

Transairion

Neighbor wrote: »

The gap in DPS parses is already absolutely massive. 40k+ from Sorc pet builds whereas Mag DK and Mag Templar are at ~32k and Mag NB at ~30k.

BSW is absolutely essential for Mag DKs and Mag Templars. Mag Sorcs have access to one of the most broken, overtuned sets in the game to use with their overpowered pet build.

Once again, Zenimax gives a huge middle finger to any non-Sorc player in ESO.

Is this real life, one specific pet Sorc build is now "so broken OP" we want to nerf the ORIGINAL, and for a long time ONLY pet-based item set in ESO into the ground? Said item set was only ever used by Nightblades because Summon Shade was fire and forget while actual combats pets have a huge downside of taking up slots on every bar you have... and all that extra magicka doesn't work when the pet isn't active or dies.

Using one specific pet other than Shade spam is now viable, the world is ending, nerf pets back into non-viability!

To think, the entire reason Volatile Familiar is "broken OP" now is because of a bugfix where previously Familiar wasn't affected by Daedric Prey at all. Working as intended = broken, nerf it into the ground. They're going to have to revert it to stop all this crying.

Shame on you.

DocFrost72

As @Vaoh and others stated, nerfing a set because a class is over performing hurts those other classes. I'd imagine nightblades (especially my heavy attack build with shades... >.>) would thank you for not removing necrosis and still, hilariously, having sorcs continue to be at the top of the list for magicka dps.

Weps

Minalan wrote: »

BSW was nerfed because it was too good no matter how you look at it, there simply wasn't another choice that came close.

This is the core of the issue to me.
Then why you don't buff the other sets?

Why the nerf is always the only solution they seem to choose?

acw37162

You could actually make a pretty effective argument if you took out your biased comments on sorc and baiting/flaming comments.

But the fact quite a few people choose to flame instead of just present their case makes it very easy to be ignored.