I preordered and have paid the sub every month. It's just a good deal, ESO plus, but it is by no means game breaking. It's by no means a must have. You're welcome to just play what content you want to play, that's perfectly valid.

I know people who bought only the base game and feel just fine about that choice, and I know people who have played everything and are fine with that. I know subscribers, people who buy just what they want to play, and people who buy everything. It really is whatever suits your needs, whatever YOU want to do.

Sure they offer incentive to buy or subscribe, I mean, this is a game and it is a business if you want that gone you'll have to overthrow the entirety of Capitalism (which I am totally down with, comrade).

Edit: I'm just saying, you have options, don't limit yourself to just two.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

So many streamers are quitting. A lot of my friends are saying goodbye and moving on to other games where the developers actually understand the playerbase.

We have tried to explain the issues to ZOS over and over again. I can type post after post. But they just don't seem to understand.

This in a nutshell. The game is now a single player Rpg with other people around. They charge you twice for what others give in a sub only game. The game has a middle of the road design. The single player design is mediocre if I want to play a sprpg I'll go play witcher it's phenom . As a MMO it completely lost its way and failed to pick a direction and put effort into development of these mechanics. ZOS Will continue to feed on the churn player base and produce easy bake Barbie doll content and charge twice for it

Yeah Swtor expacs only charged 20$, this is 40$ upgrade, but even then seems alot better than purchasing a 150$ digital house though

lihentian wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

i have played many games, but this kind of greed seem beyond measure..

So... this is greedier than the games which don't sell items, but only allow you to rent them? (Pretty much every game from Nexon?)

This is greedier than games that require you to either cough up cash to level up (STO)?

Trust me, if this was Cryptic running the game, there'd be 12 new classes, each more brokenly powerful than the last, all of them in the crown crate system, with a worse payout rate than the mounts. Which could be bought and sold for gold (which sounds great, until you watch them completely inflate the economy to the point where you need to buy stuff from the store to sell in order to have enough gold to buy anything remotely useful.

And you'd still need to buy character slots for the new classes you unlocked.

I understand being upset, but, hyperbole like this just undermines the entire argument.

what is the different here?

The nature of what you're paying for.

lihentian wrote: »

you want to use crafting bag?

You can, actually, craft without it. Trust me, I did for almost two years, until it was introduced. That includes collecting Rubidite and crafting 160 gear. It wasn't an easy process, especially since tier 10 mats stack up in your bank like you wouldn't believe. Hell, I crafted back when items only stacked to 100, and it effectively took twice the space it does now.

But, you can craft. The crafting bag is about not having to choose. You can just keep nabbing stuff at will. It's not that you get more stuff than you'd have otherwise, just that you can keep all of it, without worrying if it's taking up too much space.

lihentian wrote: »

you pay monthly to rent them, you want to more bank space?

This is basically the same situation. I mean, we've all spent three years with the existing bank system. We've got approaches to it. Increased bank space is nice. No mistake about that. It'll let you collect more set pieces without worrying about filling up your bank, or wondering if this is something that's really worth keeping. You'll still be making those decisions, but they won't be as pressing (initially).

lihentian wrote: »

you pay monthly to rent it..

Yeah, that is the nature of subscription games.

I mean, honestly, I used to be pretty harshly against them. I passed on a lot of early MMOs, including WOW, because I didn't like the idea of having to rent a game I'd already paid for.

Thing about ESO is, it's playable without a subscription. There's a lot of neat stuff there that you can have. But nothing that's actually necessary to play.

Before they put a spending cap on CP, I would have said (and may have said, for that matter) that an XP buff is Pay to Win. You're spending money for direct power advantages over another player, even if they're minor. Now it just gets you to cap a little faster.

lihentian wrote: »

you want to dye your outfit? you pay monthly to rent them..

To be fair, that is completely cosmetic. You're changing the coloring of gear that isn't even what you're actually using. If you want to subscribe for a month, set up a color scheme you want and are committed to, you can do that. You can also slap a dye stamp on it for 50-75 crowns, if that's your thing. But, it's not equivalent to power, nor to what Nexon does. Where you'd have to pay 5 bucks a month to keep that costume at all.

lihentian wrote: »

most of the nexon game are f2p, you can play without paying a penny, also all game content are free, there are no requirement to buy dlc or expansion to play story content.

I don't know if you've ever played them, but that's... not really true. Technically, sure. You can go in, experience some of the content. But, they've actually got you renting your items. Want a better gun or sword? Go to the shop and discover that for just 0.25 fake bucks you can have a gun for the twenty-four hours, or for 5 you can have it for the next thirty days. It may look cheap, but to continue playing for more than a very brief period of time, it gets expensive to the point that the crowncrates look downright inviting.

Also, that gun/sword/armor whatever, will have stats that are significantly better than the free version you get by default, and the limited time ones you can pull from whatever lockbox system they've tossed in there.

They'll drip feed fake currency at a glacial pace, and allow you to rent gear for the next day... but that's about it. Log off for a week, come back, and all your stuff is gone.

lihentian wrote: »

p.s. please do realize that we do need to buy the game, then dlc and expansion and most likely mount(which i did)..

I realize it. I own the game. I've bought mounts, though I've also got the Senche Tiger, so I never needed a mount. I picked them up because, "ooh, shiny." You can buy one in game for 10k, which really is not much, and then it's yours, for all your characters. Everyone has a horse, one time payment, no real cash involved.

Used to be, the cheap one was statistically inferior to the other three (and you needed to buy it for each character), but that went away with 1.6. So, no problems on that front now.

Buying the box, and game, gets you a fully functional game, which is more than I can say about anything I've seen from Nexon... or Cryptic these days. ZOS has been adding stuff to the subscriber rewards to try to entice you, sure. Doubling the bank size is nice, but it's not P2W, unless you define winning as plugging 480 items down Tythis's throat.

There's no hard wall like STO uses, where you need to spend 30 bucks (minimum), (or wait for one of three special events each year, then grind for 25 days solid without breaks), or you can't advance to endgame.

Hell, one of Cryptic's subscriber perks for Champions Online, and, I swear, I'm not kidding here, is "freeform characters." What this means is, instead of picking a class, you can pick any powers in the game for your character. The power disparity between Freeform and Archetype (class locked) characters would be comical, if it wasn't such an expensive prospect. Spend 50 bucks per character, or 15 bucks per month, or your character will always be hobbled.

I haven't always seen eye to eye on ZOS's business model. I'm still somewhat irked with the crown crates existing. But, I've seen legitimately exploitative and P2W games. This doesn't raise a blip. I'd like to say this is still a bad thing, but with the direction major publishers are going, including companies like EA and Ubisoft? This is downright restrained. It's not a good thing, but it's also not, "the greediest thing you'll ever see."

Ultimately, the question you need to be asking yourself is, "do I feel like I'm getting my money's worth out of this?"

I mean, I do, but that's me, my money, and my perspective. Enough that, yes, I have preordered, and not just due to misguided nostalgia because Morrowind was one of my first actual RPGs.

If you're not, then don't buy it. It's that simple. I can't tell you what you're feeling. If you do, and Morrowind appeals, then feel free. The costume looks kinda cool, though I'm not sure if I'll be wearing it next month, or if I'll stick to my existing costume selection.

The other question, and this might tie into your feelings on getting your money's worth is, "do you feel like you'd be getting your money's worth from a subscription?"

Again, that's a personal perspective, and neither I, nor anyone else on this board can answer it for you.

Notice I did not say anything about the subscription gating stuff off. That's not an accident. It can be very easy to get into a situation where you're saying, "the grass is greener over there," and working into some kind of resentment over it. That's legitimate, at least from a personal perspective, but if that's actually happening, you need to figure out if its coloring your feelings on the rest of the game, and decide accordingly.

I mean, I do subscribe. I've let it lapse a couple times since launch (intentionally once, unintentionally the other), but I mean, I feel I'm getting my money's worth. Poking around the Gold Coast or Wrothgar intermittently. Sometimes the IC. Never Hew's Bane. But that doesn't help you. Doesn't answer your questions.

The one thing I would still caution against is hyperbole. There's a lot of people running around, screaming about how the sky is falling. If you're looking for good advice, stripping down and joining the natives isn't going to get you good advice, just an echoing chamber of people who are pissed with changes that probably don't even affect their characters.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

So many streamers are quitting.

I feel like a stereotypical mother saying this, but... "And if lots of streamers were jumping off a bridge, would you do it too?"

I honestly have no idea why people put so much importance on some loudmouth extroverts on Youtube & Twitch. Let alone the fact that they can, irrationally, make money at it? So confused.
(of course, the whole "streaming" thing passed me by entirely. Why would I want to watch someone else play a game? Even ignoring the "village idiot" antics they toss in to be "entertaining".)
--

OP: There's another, middle-road option. Play the game (when the patch hits) without the expansion. See how the new systems effect you, and if you still enjoy the game. Then make a decision on whether to buy Morrowind or not.

lihentian wrote: »

so you think it is normal for them to sale $150 for a virtual house that does nothing, $20 dollar for a character slot $50for a simple assistant??

Honestly, I'm more fine with the super-expensive house than the character slots or assistant - because the house has no "real" game function, which means it's 110% entirely optional.

lihentian wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

.

so what you are saying it is ok for them to charge you money to buy an outfit, then charge again just to dye it?

They charge you for the outfit. Okay, yeah, it's purely cosmetic, doesn't make you more powerful, sure. Are they sometimes overpriced? Yeah. But, they're not necessary, and there are a few that are available for free, so that is also an option.

Charge you to dye them? It's pretty clearly stated how that works, so, again, it's your money. That's a question you need to ask yourself. Again, it's purely cosmetic. It doesn't make you more effective, it doesn't make your character better, it just looks cool. But, isn't that why you (hypothetically) bought the costume in the first place? To look cool?

lihentian wrote: »

dye stamp?? don't get me start with it, it is one of the worst thing in their cash shop. it is expensive, there are no preview, and you don't even get to choose which color you want or where each color goes to. if you haven't tried it yet, you should, because you bring them on to the table.

Worse than the houses? Worse than the assistants who don't have full functionality?

lihentian wrote: »

so you think it is normal for them to sale $150 for a virtual house that does nothing, $20 dollar for a character slot $50for a simple assistant??

Well, the character slots are $15, and the assistants are (effectively) $40 (since $40 will get you 5500 crowns). But that nitpick aside?

The houses are a neutral point for me. I'm not going to spend money on them. I'm sure there are people out there who have, and will. They're cool to have, I'm sure, but I'm not going to open my real wallet for one. If you find value in them, then that's your call, otherwise you can ignore them. You're not locked out of anything (except for a few titles) by ignoring them.

The character slots are something I'm pretty happy with. Less thrilled that Morrowind won't include extra ones gratis, but it's not a deal breaker, for me. Again, character slots don't, really, make you more powerful. The most they do is open up the option to run dailies on more characters, if you really want to do that. If you like rerunning content, or trying out different characters, they're cool. If you don't, then you're not loosing anything by ignoring them.

Again, not giving players some character slots with the Morrowind box purchase isn't something I'm happy about, but, for me, I can live with it. If you can, or not is up to you, and how you want to spend your money.

The assistants are just a (minor) convenience. Egregiously overpriced for what they do, but they are convenient. Not having to run back to the bank, or look for a merchant is nice. It saves time. But, it's not going to make you more powerful.

lihentian wrote: »

i have play many triple A games, and most of the are cheaper then one tiny DLC zone in this game...and thank you, you have convince me to stop spending money in this game.. most likely i will not pre order this upcoming expansion. since i don't want to delete one of my character and i don't want to pay 50 dollars for dlc and another 20 dollars for a character just to play that class i just bought.

Then there you go.

lihentian wrote: »

p.s if you have play long enough, you should have know that back in the days everything literally drop only one gold, and price of horse are insane. basically it take month of farming day and night to get a horse. which is why i said we are forced to buy a mount, which is not longer the case. but still stand true for any old player.

I remember. I don't remember it being quite that bad, though it certainly felt like it sometimes. I also remember the constant deterioration bug where your armor would, "rot" away while you were wearing it. That crippled my ability to earn gold for awhile, back then. Still, by around level 15 to 20, I was already swinging around enough cash (even with that bug) to actually buy the cheap horse. Not that it mattered for me personally, like I said, I had the Imperial Horse. It wasn't that unobtainable then, either, though it might have felt like it.

starkerealm wrote: »

yes, dye stamp is the worst, even when comparing with assistant and overpriced house. the stamp is one use only, automatically dye the outfit you were wearing, which they never made it clear. many people accidentally dye their outfit into wrong color and had to spend double the money just to get it back.

plus the choice are terrible, it is not like you select three color, but instead they give a preset. which you have no control of which color going to where.

all in all, i brought up the outfit dye, the bank the crafting bag because i felt b2p player are treat as second class player.. and things really getting worse and worse. it almost as if they reject all b2p player who refuse to go under monthly sub.. and am not so sure if i want to continue to spend money to be treated this way...

well anywayz i decide not to spend the money.. maybe in a years time i might come back and pick up the expansion and half price.

p.s. am from Canada, so character slot are indeed nearly 20 dollars here~~~

lihentian wrote: »

if i spend the money to buy an outfit, why on earth should i spend another $20 a month just to dye it???

My subscription was only $13 a month, not $20
Also, if you subscribe, you can use the crowns that're included with the sub to buy the costumes.

lihentian wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

if i spend the money to buy an outfit, why on earth should i spend another $20 a month just to dye it???

My subscription was only $13 a month, not $20
Also, if you subscribe, you can use the crowns that're included with the sub to buy the costumes.

it is not the money, it is the fact that i rare play one game for too long. i like trying out new games.. it would be ok with me if they sale outfit dye all together for like 50 dollars? but lock everything behind sub model is not really acceptable to me.

Honestly, that probably makes you not a good match for MMOs. Even in the modern era of f2p/etc, MMOs are all about long-term retension. The want you to stick around, they want stuff to take a lot of time to complete, they're big on time sinks.

(And that's fine - not every game or game genre is for every person.)

Honestly the only shady business thing so far are the crown crates but like even video game WUNDERKIND that people pretend can do no wrong Blizzard has literal skinner boxes in their games. Everything else, like, the game is perfectly functioning and fun and challenging and rewarding at the base level, everything they offer for extra is either extra content or purely cosmetic, I mean come on?

What happened to the kind of communities games used to foster? I'm talking Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines communities where a broken game with golden ideas was loved and worked on by fans for years. Here.. We just complain.

1. If you really enjoy this game, and you like doing veteran content and solo questing then the new expansion is worth all the money.
2. If you are nervous about how good or bad it will be, then do not pre-order, wait a few months and then buy it if you like it.
3. If you are tired of the game, and tired of ZOS slowpoke development then quit the game.

A good while 2 years ago I would have thrown everything I had at the game and loved it, but now after waiting 1 year for a real DLC, and not getting anything good.... I feel all my money on this game have been wasted, and I am preparing to cancell my 2 subscriptions and quit the game for good.
Morrowind is too little and too late for me, but in many other cases it is not and people will continue to love and enjoy playing this game.

I don't care what others say I love the game been playing since day one and I have eso+ the crafting bag is a great addition as I have 10k of crafting materials in my bag.