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ESO Morrowind Patch will be the best thing to happen to ESO.
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IronCrystal✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.Edited by IronCrystal on May 4, 2017 11:33AMMake PC NA raiding great again!
Down with drama!
What Mechanics Healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Homestead Raid Scores
vHRC 157,030
vAA 138,287
vSO 153,393
vMoL 154,550
Not raiding in Morrowind1 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭TastesAllColors wrote: »ESO Morrowind Patch will be the best thing to happen to ESO.ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »[Edit to remove minor bait]
Edited by ZOS_AntonioP on May 3, 2017 9:34PM
All clear now.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Yeah, I fully agree with this. The thing is, people who run group content and solo world bosses are a tiny sliver of the game's population. Which makes all of these, "this will kill the game," lines more than a little hyperbolic. Most players will not notice the difference.0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »Moloch1514 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes. And the thing doesn't fight back. I guess I just don't equate increasing the TTK and forcing the use of clunky heavy attacks with fun.
Exactly! For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Thats the problem you weren't supposed to be 2 man dungeon anything lol .
Just shows game is too easy
Yeah, the game is way too easy, I've done the last vMsa stage without equipment about a month ago, everyone can do it, on consoles the 89% of the community have completed vMsa based on the achievements.
I really hope the game gets harder, I'm tired of having to do vMol HM without shields and food to have some challenge.
K1 The Big Monkey1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »Moloch1514 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes. And the thing doesn't fight back. I guess I just don't equate increasing the TTK and forcing the use of clunky heavy attacks with fun.
Exactly! For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Thats the problem you weren't supposed to be 2 man dungeon anything lol .
Just shows game is too easy
Yeah, the game is way too easy, I've done the last vMsa stage without equipment about a month ago, everyone can do it, on consoles the 89% of the community have completed vMsa based on the achievements.
I really hope the game gets harder, I'm tired of having to do vMol HM without shields and food to have some challenge.
Given that 89% of the community hasn't even hit level 50, I find that claim... "dubious."4 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually the ESO "Middle Class" will be the one's hurt the most by the CP and class changes. The so called "Elites" will just learn to adapt and be able to do their vMOL, vMA, etc. And if you think the respective guilds will lower their CP requirements, I think you are a bit disillusioned.
I don't know, I am in the middle and my DPS went from 20k to 19.5k. Same gear.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Morrowind patch has caused more people to quit than any other patch ever!!Edited by Bigevilpeter on May 4, 2017 1:28PM0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Ihatenightblades wrote: »Moloch1514 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes. And the thing doesn't fight back. I guess I just don't equate increasing the TTK and forcing the use of clunky heavy attacks with fun.
Exactly! For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Thats the problem you weren't supposed to be 2 man dungeon anything lol .
Just shows game is too easy
Yeah, the game is way too easy, I've done the last vMsa stage without equipment about a month ago, everyone can do it, on consoles the 89% of the community have completed vMsa based on the achievements.
I really hope the game gets harder, I'm tired of having to do vMol HM without shields and food to have some challenge.
Given that 89% of the community hasn't even hit level 50, I find that claim... "dubious."
http://www.bishfish.co.nz/images/webbooks/downriggerrods.jpgK1 The Big Monkey0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes, it was PVP players who literally went into Zos' HQ and forced them to change everything and wreck the game. lol? And I play pve only atm, if that was directed to me as well as all the rabid PVPers. @Betheny
The whining pitch from PVPers' voices is of such a magnitude it can reach ZOS ears from right across the country and over the oceans. All from the comfort of your little keyboards PVPers.
You're delusional if you think the PVE only community can't and doesn't whine just as much.
Yeah? Show me all the threads from PVE players calling for nerfs. I can show you thousands of threads from PVP players calling for nerfs over PVP issues.
Mobs cannot file complaints when something is totally OP, I think people call it "power creep".
Btw please don't be toxic
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »Moloch1514 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes. And the thing doesn't fight back. I guess I just don't equate increasing the TTK and forcing the use of clunky heavy attacks with fun.
Exactly! For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Thats the problem you weren't supposed to be 2 man dungeon anything lol .
Just shows game is too easy
Yeah, the game is way too easy, I've done the last vMsa stage without equipment about a month ago, everyone can do it, on consoles the 89% of the community have completed vMsa based on the achievements.
I really hope the game gets harder, I'm tired of having to do vMol HM without shields and food to have some challenge.
@Kay1
Could you post a video of you doing hard mode without food.
Sounds interesting.
Cheers!Edited by KingYogi415 on May 4, 2017 1:35PM3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I don't know what to think. Good thing is that ZOS knows there is an issue with infinite sustain / recourse but after watching some videos / reviews of upcoming changes I think that ZOS is doing it from a wrong angle.
They are tying to make the "gap" between high CP and low CP players smaller. But in the end the players who will feel this changes the most is an "average joe" (players who play not that often just for relax and usually don't know well the game mechanics yet).
So in the and those players will have the most troubles with sustain & resources. The game will become more difficult for them etc.
So the effect will be quite the opposite of the intended one...1 -
Aquanova✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Yeah, I fully agree with this. The thing is, people who run group content and solo world bosses are a tiny sliver of the game's population. Which makes all of these, "this will kill the game," lines more than a little hyperbolic. Most players will not notice the difference.
People who run group content are a tiny sliver of the game? Are u fkn for real?
What the he'll else content other than group or solo is their in this game? RP?NA/PC2 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes the game is too easy. But I don't think it's because of sustain. Last night, on my level 47 alt running through a delve, I came across a cp200 sorc using a lightning staff while using hurricane. I stood and watched in amazement as she hard casted crystal frags three times in a row as 6 mobs beat on her. As she got to the last mob she then used multiple lighting staff heavy attacks to finish it off. The game does not punish you for playing like an ***. When you can completely ignore game mechanics and still come out on top, it's not because of infinite sustain. The game does not prepare you for end-game content at all anymore.2 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Funkopotamus wrote: »I said it back 2 years ago that CP would kill this game and that the DEVS would never be able to program the game around CP players and casuals.. Well HERE WE ARE living the prophecy!
Really now? You said, two years ago, "ZOS will botch up the Champion system. They'll give us too much power by accident, then strip it away, causing dozens, dozens, of players to leave, dooming the game to death!"? I think I missed that post.
Stark you and I have had our moments on here, but yes YES indeed I along with many others said that the CP system was broken! And that it would be the death of this game in many post. The devs cannot balance content with a broken system like CP. I actually said that it would make the game too easy for most and to hard for some.
I also remember posting the data mined screenshot of the text chat system being "Disabled" in the Xbox one file. When smurf and others were telling me that text chat was never going to be in ESO console. lol. It was there from day one, but was simply disabled, but everyone thought I was crazy.Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If Zenimax wants to provide more access to end game content to newer players, the game should teach the mechanics of combat properly
Out of all you said, this is the core issue that they need to address. There is a divide in the game right at the point where "Animation Canceling" becomes the skill that players need to pick up and master. ZOS does not teach this skill, but the end-game is much easier when it is being used, and used well.
I am a firm believer in the idea that the game should teach all of the game concepts required to play the game, in some fashion. The need to teach animation canceling is no different than the need to teach people how to heavy attack, or pick locks. Animation canceling is simply not talked about. Any player that does not research this, or become exposed to the concept, has no idea. Yeah, some players will figure this out, and not even know it is what they are doing. That does not excuse ZOS from the responsibility of introducing this concept to players, in my opinion.
If ZOS cannot teach this, they need to remove it as a combat mechanic.IronCrystal wrote: »I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Well...
A lot of long term players seem to forget that new players are chronically out of resources. They sneeze in this game and stamina goes down by half.
Early in the game, some of them get to use just a couple of skills and they are out. Running out of resources has always been an issue for newer players in this game, and newer players have to deal with it, or the character dies. Granted they are not running trials and veteran content, but they are learning about resource management specifically running out of resources, while they play. We all did.
"Combat in ESO is, and has always been, about fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is key and is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we have made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become somewhat trivial; it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage."
I see what the Devs are saying when they say the core pillar of resource management has been somewhat trivial in the game. The important point to note is that this statement does not apply to the newer and less experienced players. It is directed at the more experienced players.
So, to me, the impact is not aimed at those who do group content like dungeons and trials as much as it is players who, in doing that content, have learned that they can make builds and employ skills that do not require as much attention to resource management. Maybe they don't want to. Maybe they just don't use the skill enough. In any case, the impact is real, for these players.
Not as much, other players.
Edited by Elsonso on May 4, 2017 2:32PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Yeah, I fully agree with this. The thing is, people who run group content and solo world bosses are a tiny sliver of the game's population. Which makes all of these, "this will kill the game," lines more than a little hyperbolic. Most players will not notice the difference.
Wait ...........so your saying that a MMO that actually has GROUP dungeons for dailies is a " tiny sliver of the game's population" Not to mention everything "End game content" is strictly "Group focused"
I just..........
I............. WOW!
0_o
Wut?Edited by Funkopotamus on May 4, 2017 2:28PMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington5 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭KingYogi415 wrote: »Ihatenightblades wrote: »Moloch1514 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes. And the thing doesn't fight back. I guess I just don't equate increasing the TTK and forcing the use of clunky heavy attacks with fun.
Exactly! For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Thats the problem you weren't supposed to be 2 man dungeon anything lol .
Just shows game is too easy
Yeah, the game is way too easy, I've done the last vMsa stage without equipment about a month ago, everyone can do it, on consoles the 89% of the community have completed vMsa based on the achievements.
I really hope the game gets harder, I'm tired of having to do vMol HM without shields and food to have some challenge.
@Kay1
Could you post a video of you doing hard mode without food.
Sounds interesting.
Cheers!
I second this.The Flyers0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I feel this expansion will be overshadowed by how horrid these nerfs areEdited by Aliyavana on May 4, 2017 2:21PM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Yeah, I fully agree with this. The thing is, people who run group content and solo world bosses are a tiny sliver of the game's population. Which makes all of these, "this will kill the game," lines more than a little hyperbolic. Most players will not notice the difference.
People who run group content are a tiny sliver of the game? Are u fkn for real?
What the he'll else content other than group or solo is their in this game? RP?
Solo content. You're honestly telling me, you've never noticed just how many players you can find wandering around the game aimlessly, far from any group content? Then compare that to the teeth pulling it takes to get a PUG together?0 -
Bartdude✭✭✭I don't see how nerfing sustain is making the game harder? it's just making it take longer to kill/do game content. New builds/metas etc. will soon be established to deal with the content. IMO the real reason is just to give Morrowind some longevity, the rest of the nerfs are just to make battlegrounds work. I think Zeni should have tried to sort all the bugs that already exist before attempting to add more content but hey gotta make a buck I suppose and adding another char/class when they can't balance the 4 we have is well....yeah!"No *** lady! does it sound like I'm ordering pizza?"3 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭Love the way it'll change PVP.
It'll be fun when you're in a ball-group. Solo/small scale won't even be a thing.
The change was made for PvE—not PvP.0 -
colig✭✭✭✭I don't see how nerfing sustain is making the game harder? it's just making it take longer to kill/do game content. New builds/metas etc. will soon be established to deal with the content. IMO the real reason is just to give Morrowind some longevity, the rest of the nerfs are just to make battlegrounds work. I think Zeni should have tried to sort all the bugs that already exist before attempting to add more content but hey gotta make a buck I suppose and adding another char/class when they can't balance the 4 we have is well....yeah!
Fight takes longer -> difficult game mechanics become more apparent -> more chance of someone making a mistake -> game harder2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Yeah, I fully agree with this. The thing is, people who run group content and solo world bosses are a tiny sliver of the game's population. Which makes all of these, "this will kill the game," lines more than a little hyperbolic. Most players will not notice the difference.
Wait ...........so your saying that a MMO that actually has GROUP dungeons for dailies is a " tiny sliver of the game's population" Not to mention everything "End game content" is strictly "Group focused"
I just..........
I............. WOW!
0_o
Wut?
No, I'm saying the segment of the game's population that actually participates in veteran dungeons, trials, and even normal dungeons on a regular basis is a tiny minority of the community, in comparison to the number of players just wandering around out there killing things and questing alone or with a buddy.
I'd agree that it's kinda bonkers for an MMO, but... I mean, you've actually logged in, and looked at the game, right? You're not just basing this off how you believe an MMO should be, right?0 -
Balamoor✭✭✭✭✭
✭TastesAllColors wrote: »
Here's the thing.......
What are there five trials? In a game with a ridiculous amount of content and dungeons. Are you really chest thumping over the most slapdash part of ESO? This isn't like WoW where raiding is the end game, heck ESO doesn't even want to call it raiding, it's the same with Vet dungeons...not one iota of that content is relative to the overarching game.
So what were going to have a handful of players slapping each other on the back over content that is pretty uninspiring and has jack and ship to do with the world story direction and really doesn't offer much other than bragging rights and armor most folks end up covering with a Crown store skin? And you know as well as I do changes like this doesn't last very long.
Iv'e said it before and it's true, being a Raider in ESO is sorta like being a NASCAR fan in London, there are just other games where that play-style is more relevant.
But whatever blows your dress up.Edited by Balamoor on May 4, 2017 2:44PM3 -
kuro-dono✭✭✭✭so amazed of the tears who whine about morrowind nerfs. haha. oh dear. thank god i am more than delighted how many in thos thread recognize the potentiality this patch has to save the future of this game.
so. how many casual leaving the game? between 1-1000
how many endgamer, elite leaving? bit more than casuals.
so this brings out, why then the elites leaving, instead of casuals if this doomsday is making it more horrible for the ppl who are playing as they want? i guess someone less toxic, with level headed brain can give me the answer.
this patch. nerfs massively power creep. and it doesnt murder the casuals/normal peoples fun lv at all. it shortens their tiny recovery just tiny wee bit, while endgamer gets quite big blow.
so what this means? endgamer has to fix out their recoveries ALOT. casuals who do their stuff?... eh i dont think they doing ny changes at all. heavy attacking to stay alive? oh no how terrible!!! i cant kill this trash in 20 sec, i need to spend now 30sec!!!
next. dungeon runs mechanic skipping> less likely to happen as you need to focus on few other things instead of just spam your adhd spirit the button to wreck boss with 9999999k dps per sec. oh no i need to ACTUALLY LEARN MECHANIC OF THE BOSS!!!!
i was bit mean there... sorry you doomsayers for that.
i can pretend to be nice to you nonlevel headed folks, but you dont deserve it. behaving like *** and causing high end toxicity here at forums. Its just.. that you guys need to be explained what in gods name is wrong with your attitude.
i am pvp:er myself. so there is few challenging things in cyrodiil aswell.
TANKS, TANKHEALERS, TANKPROC DPS:ERS.
then...
SINGLEHIT BURST BUILDS, PERMACLOAKERS, PERMAROLLERS. PERMA BOLTESCAPERS.
then from raid side.. we all remember impulse train? Everytime it evolved when zos pathetically tried to nerf them, instead you felt they got more POWERFUL.
with allt he nerfs etc thats been happening, zos been fighting fire with fire, NOW, finally they took different aproach. vs fire they use now totally opposite element to cooldown even little bit the issues we got.
what this actually does? it tells the endgamers to bloody cool down and try have fun, instead of complain at forums how they have farmed billionz of times dungeon, or veteran maelstorm and complain how run takes too long. lol too long for 15-20min dungeon and 40-50min for maelstorm? dear god why ppl are in some sort of rush. its not like eso is intented to be finished anytime soon, i hope.
LEARN THE BLOODY MECHANIC, CHILL, AND TRY HAVE SOME FUN. thats what this nerf promotes.
oh. disclaimer, sorry my engrish isnt very smooth, but it should point out the obvious to all the sherlocks and trolls. what this causes, who it nerfs, and is this bad for the game or not.
few other ppl here in this topic have made few good posts about this, and i am sure i dont need to point it out, since it seems more and more obvious to ppl that naysers are just full o ***t.
if someone desires. i can make sort of numerical post regarding how much this affects the both side of the coin + casuals/newplayers vs the endgamers.
thank you for reading my evil and nasty but HONEST post regarding this upcoming DOOMSDAY.1 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Funkopotamus wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.
I'm going to say it. "Standard overworld PvE" never requires even a full rotation of abilities to kill. So of course you probably aren't running out of resources on a stamblade.
This primarily effects those who do group content like dungeons and trials or try to solo world bosses and such.
Yeah, I fully agree with this. The thing is, people who run group content and solo world bosses are a tiny sliver of the game's population. Which makes all of these, "this will kill the game," lines more than a little hyperbolic. Most players will not notice the difference.
Wait ...........so your saying that a MMO that actually has GROUP dungeons for dailies is a " tiny sliver of the game's population" Not to mention everything "End game content" is strictly "Group focused"
I just..........
I............. WOW!
0_o
Wut?
No, I'm saying the segment of the game's population that actually participates in veteran dungeons, trials, and even normal dungeons on a regular basis is a tiny minority of the community, in comparison to the number of players just wandering around out there killing things and questing alone or with a buddy.
I'd agree that it's kinda bonkers for an MMO, but... I mean, you've actually logged in, and looked at the game, right? You're not just basing this off how you believe an MMO should be, right?
Stark your post enlightens the population to the problem that ESO faces. "and this comes from reviews" ESO suffers from an identity crisis. Is it an MMO. or a RPG?
You seem to want ESO to be a "Skyrim with friends" type of game. [but it was never ment to be this if it was then set gear would drop from regular quest mobs...] You say that the majority of the player base is happy mindlessly smashing mud crabs and never enter dungeons?
I find that very hard to believe. I have played since PC and then went to console. I say this with conviction.. I have yet to meet a player in this game that doesn't run dallies for set gear. Hell I do not think I have had a player tell me "Nah Im good" when invited to run a trial.
Are there players that have not ran trials? Sure, but it is not by choice.
If there are they are unicorns.
Edited by Funkopotamus on May 4, 2017 3:39PMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington2 -
PathwayM✭✭✭✭Lol my takeaways from this thread are as follows...
PvErs be like... #notmypatch "I'm leaving"
PvPrs be like... Good Riddance!
Why can't we all just get along?
1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Funkopotamus wrote: »I said it back 2 years ago that CP would kill this game and that the DEVS would never be able to program the game around CP players and casuals.. Well HERE WE ARE living the prophecy!
Really now? You said, two years ago, "ZOS will botch up the Champion system. They'll give us too much power by accident, then strip it away, causing dozens, dozens, of players to leave, dooming the game to death!"? I think I missed that post.
There were quite a few people theorizing that CP was going to cause huge problems back then. I was one of them.
Introducing seasoned CP caps and later (now) chopping out and reworking the stats so they are weighted in the front is confirmation of that.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »You seem to want...
This has absolutely nothing to do what what I want. I'm saying what I've observed about the in game population base, combined with statistics that have been dumped by the devs over the years regarding the player base.0
