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My personal issue with Morrowind

  • sadownik
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    @Kyle1983b14_ESO IF its really THAT small wouldn't you like to know before buying?
  • DaveMoeDee
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    I am sorry for writing here my personal issue. I want to know if i am the only one who has this problem.
    I dont have problem with the changes on active skills, passives skills, classes and so on because this is quite common for zenimax online, and im sure im gonna adapt it again.
    My problem is that morrowind looks like to me with major update or just anither Dlc. I don't understand why we have to buy this update. They should offer free the battlegrounds and they have to add the new map and the new class as a DLC.
    As far as i remember on other games we had to buy expansions that had to offer 4-5 new dungeons 1-2 new raids ,10-15 new maps 1-2 new classes and a new story line and that was quite normal. I dont think that Morrowind is an expansion.

    Buy the company and control how content is released. No? Cant?
    Make your own game and offer all these things free. No? Cant?
    Important part, they didn't describe it as an expansion either. Never have, specifically said it wasn't.

    Morrowind is working a bit differently from most expansions. It is the game itself moving on, not just expanding (includes the base game form here on out). Some games do this, most keep base game + expansion(s), and some including old expansion in the base game.

    Hands down, one of the big reasons they can't run it like a DLC is the new class. ESO+ runs out, now you cant play a character at all? Sure, they could separate it, but they didn't. Get used to it.

    Warden is not a problem any more than Imperial is a problem. They could just sell Warden as a 5k crown store item that is not included with ESO+. Problem solved. Morrowind would just contain story and BG and cost 3000 crowns or maybe 3500. If they feel BG really requires major server infrastructure, perhaps more. Then again, if BG pulls people out of Cyrodiil, that will make operations happy.

    While I find the whole "chapter" wordplay dishonest, I don't blame them for accepting financial realities if B2P with optional sub hurt their revenue streams compared to original forecasts. Personally, I will wait for future sales. If I was into BG, I would pre-order. I can focus on fishing achievements on my main for now. Heck, my main hasn't even killed all dolmen bosses since he was leveled pre-dolmen farming. I have a ton of achievements left for earlier DLC that I have only started to work on with the TG anniversary event. I might even need to start farming AP with my main because he has fallen behind alts and those alts are low level in AW themselves. But that is my. I almost never pre-order games. I am happy to wait a year. And I never complain about prices. I just buy or don't buy.
  • Cpt_Teemo
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    sadownik wrote: »
    @Kyle1983b14_ESO IF its really THAT small wouldn't you like to know before buying?

    No not really, cause I think it's better buying content than a house tbh that's why I never purchased a house even with crowns from subbing.
  • Shadow_Viper_vX
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    colig wrote: »
    "Other MMOs do this."
    "It's only $$$, just save up."
    "It's not a DLC, it's a chapter."
    "You don't have to buy it. Base game is perfectly fine."
    "ZOS is obligated to make as much money as they can."
    "If you can't afford it, don't buy it and shut up."
    "DOOOOOM GLOOM"
    "cool story bro"
    "Why do people complain so much?"
    "ESO is different from other MMOs."

    You forgot "Pointless Thread is Pointless" a personal favorite
  • DaveMoeDee
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    Xundiin wrote: »
    ...
    All game companies are greedy by an definition really. but that's what happens when you have investers standing over you with their hands out for the pay out of the investment.
    ...

    I would add to this that ZOS is legally required to be "greedy." They are obligated to act on behalf of the stockholders' best interests. I suppose if a few people owned the bulk of the company, they could choose to forego getting a return on their investment. But they would then get sued by other stockholders.

    Also, companies need to monetize successful products sufficiently to cover losses from other products. Microsoft took a bath for years on Bing, but Office more than covered that. And when margins start collapsing on products, companies look to allocate resources elsewhere. I am happy when they release houses for 18k crowns and people buy it. It is a good sign. People enjoy the world created enough to spend significant money on it, even after 3 years.
  • DaveMoeDee
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    Lysette wrote: »
    Maikon wrote: »
    Lysette wrote: »
    I got a beta test invitation and do not even feel the urge to try it - I think it is massively overpriced and should be a DLC - I am not going to support this practice to go around ESO+ by calling it an upgrade - it is a DLC and I want it for free with ESO+, or I just let go on it and do not play it at all.

    @Lysette

    Massively overpriced? If so, you may need a career change, McDonalds hourly pay may not be able to support your expensive lifestyle.

    Well, you come to wrong conclusions here - things are overpriced, if their price is not reasonable - this has nothing to do with if I can afford it or not - I am spending around 200 euros every months on gaming, I could easily afford it, but I will not buy it, when I think, that they are ripping me off compared to offers from other gaming companies, which offer me a lot more content for a much lower price - so please be respectful, your comment is an insult actually.

    Btw why do you think, ZOS invited me to the beta - because they have seen my spendings on this game and want it back - but I am refusing.

    I think they invited you because they wanted a lot of people to test. I would guess that you played PC beta, as they seemed the pull in a lot of people who played that.
  • Lysette
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Lysette wrote: »
    Maikon wrote: »
    Lysette wrote: »
    I got a beta test invitation and do not even feel the urge to try it - I think it is massively overpriced and should be a DLC - I am not going to support this practice to go around ESO+ by calling it an upgrade - it is a DLC and I want it for free with ESO+, or I just let go on it and do not play it at all.

    @Lysette

    Massively overpriced? If so, you may need a career change, McDonalds hourly pay may not be able to support your expensive lifestyle.

    Well, you come to wrong conclusions here - things are overpriced, if their price is not reasonable - this has nothing to do with if I can afford it or not - I am spending around 200 euros every months on gaming, I could easily afford it, but I will not buy it, when I think, that they are ripping me off compared to offers from other gaming companies, which offer me a lot more content for a much lower price - so please be respectful, your comment is an insult actually.

    Btw why do you think, ZOS invited me to the beta - because they have seen my spendings on this game and want it back - but I am refusing.

    I think they invited you because they wanted a lot of people to test. I would guess that you played PC beta, as they seemed the pull in a lot of people who played that.

    No, I didn't - I just spent a lot of money on vanity items in the crown store and I paid for a year subscription in advance - well it will be over in august, but I love the crafting bag and even if I do not play often, I have to keep subscription up - and for that I expect them to deliver on their promise for ESO+ - that you do not have to pay extra for new provinces and that all will be included with ESO+ - they made this impression and i guess, that was as well their original intention - and now they are changing that and screw us subscribers over - I am not happy with that.
  • Dark_Aether
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    I took some time and really tested the PTS, including Morrowind contents this week-end. I still blame them for making promises they cannot keep, they're losing their integrity this way. They backed themselves into a corner the second they promised all DLC contents would be free for subscribers.

    Now should Morrowind be included in ESO+? After testing, I'd say no. It feels much bigger then the previous DLCs.

    Is it worth $40? Absolutely not. This feels no more than $24.99 worth of content to me.
    Edited by Dark_Aether on May 1, 2017 2:32PM
  • Balamoor
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    I took some time and really tested the PTS, including Morrowind contents this week-end. I still blame them for making promises they cannot keep, they're losing their integrity this way. They backed themselves into a corner the second they promised all DLC contents would be free for subscribers.

    Now should Morrowind be included in ESO+? After testing, I'd say no. It feels much bigger then the previous DLCs.

    Is it worth $40? Absolutely not. This feels no more than $24.99 worth of content to me.

    It's so subjective.

    In 1987 I purchased a game called Phantasy Star the day of release... the cost $75.00, that's around 165.00 adjusted to today's inflation. Most games have cost the same as they do today since the late 80's, they are one of the few items that haven't had a price increase, yet no one ***, whines and complains more about prices than gamers. Unless it's free, and gives you things, gamers complain...it's idiotic.

    The only people I hear complaining more about prices are the oldsters who hang out at McDonald every morning. Look if anyone thinks that ZoS lacks integrity, and they are being ripped off by charging less than it cost for a tank of gas or a single trip to the theaters in most states for a game expansion then people should vote with their wallets...only they should stop droning on about how they are being ripped off, because it's not going to get Zos to hand anyone the Xpack for free.

    Folks know the price of admission and they should make the adult decision to buy or not, no one really cares one way or the other.
    Edited by Balamoor on May 1, 2017 3:34PM
  • vulcuran2
    vulcuran2
    Soul Shriven
    first of all people get it right its not a dlc its a chapter its a party of a whole nnew story if you dont like it dont buy it if you like it buy it plain and simple quit complaining gheez
  • rotaugen454
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    It is a chapter because that lets them sell a physical collector's edition with a book, map and statue. Yes, I preordered it.
    "Get off my lawn!"
  • Elsonso
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    Balamoor wrote: »
    In 1987 I purchased a game called Phantasy Star the day of release... the cost $75.00, that's around 165.00 adjusted to today's inflation. Most games have cost the same as they do today since the late 80's, they are one of the few items that haven't had a price increase, yet no one ***, whines and complains more about prices than gamers. Unless it's free, and gives you things, gamers complain...it's idiotic.

    No kidding. On top of that, the gamers demand more for the same price. Top of the line graphics and voice overs are not cheap.
    @Elsonso on PC North America
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus


  • Queo
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    I had not realized that Morrowin was not going to be part of the ESO+ sub. I hadn't read anything on it other then how bad the changes will be, not that I cared. After reading this thread, here is how i feel about this "new chapter".

    1) The Warden should be sold as a Stand alone class

    2) The new content, is a DLC, and i think ZoS is being sneeky by saying its a "chapter". I get it their game and they need to figure out ways to make money, but this is not a vanity item. While I roll my eyes at players who cry over a 150 dollar house, this is different. Whats the difference between a Chapter and a DLC? How long before that distinction becomes blurred?? This more then anything else is why this "chapter" business is raising some red flags for me. If we except it now, we will except it in the future, because its the norm.

    3) If they had split out the class from the content, they should treat the zone as a DLC. You can buy the DLC and class as a bundle.
  • Lysette
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    Queo wrote: »
    I had not realized that Morrowin was not going to be part of the ESO+ sub. I hadn't read anything on it other then how bad the changes will be, not that I cared. After reading this thread, here is how i feel about this "new chapter".

    1) The Warden should be sold as a Stand alone class

    2) The new content, is a DLC, and i think ZoS is being sneeky by saying its a "chapter". I get it their game and they need to figure out ways to make money, but this is not a vanity item. While I roll my eyes at players who cry over a 150 dollar house, this is different. Whats the difference between a Chapter and a DLC? How long before that distinction becomes blurred?? This more then anything else is why this "chapter" business is raising some red flags for me. If we except it now, we will except it in the future, because its the norm.

    3) If they had split out the class from the content, they should treat the zone as a DLC. You can buy the DLC and class as a bundle.

    This.
  • jaye63
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    Beesting wrote: »
    I have not preordered it because i am not excited with the changes that make playing the game harder, more tedious and less fun.
    I wanted new and harder content, not the nerfs / chances to sustain.
    Even now with all the bad healers and tanks not buffing and debuffing like they should, because they are new and there are no load screen tips telling them how important it is for good dps, the pledges take far too long.

    So i dont know if the base game / current content will be fun to play after morrowind. If it would be i would have been happy to buy it, at the moment i am not sure.

    Agreed!

    If the PTS notes get followed to the letter, this is an extreme understatement. If I have to rebuild 10 toons, I'll quit. I didnt spend the last 9 months working toward something to have it ripped out from under me and have to learn the whole game over. Stat distribution, SP distribution, CP point distribution, what gear will work best with that, farming new gear because the old wont work with the changes I have to make. It's like paying them money to mess up my gaming experience.

    I will wait til the last update before the drop of MW to see how bad the nerfs are actually going to be before I actually quit. If I only need to make a couple of tweaks here and there, I can live with it... IF they're small ones. But if I have to start over, which is what the PTS Notes indicated, I'll start over on a new game.
  • Xundiin
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    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    Xundiin wrote: »
    ...So all DLC's are in fact expansions.
    LOL. You don't know what "expansion" means in the context of computer/video gaming. A single piece of horse armor (or whatever) is not an expansion. What the heck. The word "expansion" has NEVER been used that way in the entire history of computer gaming. You can't just invent your own definition. Originally you could only buy expansions on CD in brick-and-mortar stores, and the concept of DLC didn't exist yet. Then one year gaming companies realized they could sell additional content via direct downloads to your computer, and the concept of the DLC was born. Only these were never full expansions at first; it was always a smaller amount of content. So originally, an "expansion" was a name given to a larger amount of additional game content, and a "DLC" was a smaller bit of content that wasn't worth a full expansion.

    Now people think of everything as being DLCs, because you can download entire expansions now. That wasn't always the case. However, never in the whole history of gaming has anyone EVER called a single item from a game an "expansion."

    Actually, I do. You must not know what dlc is since a dlc is not distributed in physical form.

    "An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game or video game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters and/or an extended storyline to complete an already released game."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

    So apparently I understand what expansion means more than you do. Thanks for playing.
    Edited by Xundiin on May 1, 2017 6:00PM
    #SavePlayer1
  • Costismaros
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    I am sorry for writing here my personal issue. I want to know if i am the only one who has this problem.
    I dont have problem with the changes on active skills, passives skills, classes and so on because this is quite common for zenimax online, and im sure im gonna adapt it again.
    My problem is that morrowind looks like to me with major update or just anither Dlc. I don't understand why we have to buy this update. They should offer free the battlegrounds and they have to add the new map and the new class as a DLC.
    As far as i remember on other games we had to buy expansions that had to offer 4-5 new dungeons 1-2 new raids ,10-15 new maps 1-2 new classes and a new story line and that was quite normal. I dont think that Morrowind is an expansion.

    The expansion itself is supposed to be larger than any DLC before. They have chosen that Trials will now be part of expansions which alone is big and the zone is to have more questing than even Wrothgar did. The sheer size of the zone with the added value is their justification.

    Games also change how they add dungeons and raids. I have never seen 10-15 new maps added to an MMO in one expansion. Any expansion that had that many maps added must have added extremely small maps with limited questing since expansions are often added annually.

    I have seen major MMOs added trials and dungeons throughout the year, not necessarily in the expansion. It should also be rare a new class is added since that is pretty major. Hopefully Zos is not planning a new class per year. I know of one major MMO that has never added a class and has been around at least 2 years longer than ESO.

    Regardless, it is what it is and I doubt it will be changed to a DLC.

    I compared ESO chapter with WOW expansions, my mistake.

    The think is that I m login in the game and craglorn is empty, cyrodil has no queue.
    Maybe people are disappointed about Morrowind for more than one reasons.

    The think is the subscribers have to pay 15 € for June month +40€ for Morrowind chapter and they are ready to Run the same vPledges again. GOGO
    Edited by Costismaros on May 2, 2017 1:27PM
  • Prof_Bawbag
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    My personal issue with Morrowind is it currently costs the same as it cost to buy Mass Effect, Nioh, Horizon etc. I'll wait for the price drop. They can sell the fluff for what they want, but still have standards when it comes to what I'll pay for dlc, expansions and full games.
    Carebear Master Race
  • Rouven
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    If it was only a DLC I could not buy the collectors edition with a book and a plastic toy *pouts*

    I have another probably 10 games on my computer that I have not finished or not even really started - don't buy most games when they come out but later when they are on sale. Steam wishlist, can't miss it.
    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett
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