My personal issue with Morrowind

Costismaros

I am sorry for writing here my personal issue. I want to know if i am the only one who has this problem.
I dont have problem with the changes on active skills, passives skills, classes and so on because this is quite common for zenimax online, and im sure im gonna adapt it again.
My problem is that morrowind looks like to me with major update or just anither Dlc. I don't understand why we have to buy this update. They should offer free the battlegrounds and they have to add the new map and the new class as a DLC.
As far as i remember on other games we had to buy expansions that had to offer 4-5 new dungeons 1-2 new raids ,10-15 new maps 1-2 new classes and a new story line and that was quite normal. I dont think that Morrowind is an expansion.

colig

"Other MMOs do this."
"It's only $$$, just save up."
"It's not a DLC, it's a chapter."
"You don't have to buy it. Base game is perfectly fine."
"ZOS is obligated to make as much money as they can."
"If you can't afford it, don't buy it and shut up."
"DOOOOOM GLOOM"
"cool story bro"
"Why do people complain so much?"
"ESO is different from other MMOs."

Marabornwingrion

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

notimetocare

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

How so? Most base content in expansions for other games arent much larger. Adding in the free patch content of other games to the 'expansion' is misleading since ESO+ still has full access to future DLC patches

FloppyTouch

Just a way to make more money and that is all. I'm not against it at all tbh just don't be jerks about it and call it what it is a DLC say ur going to change ur business model and how subbing and all future DLC will not be part of it.

notimetocare

Costismaros wrote: »

I am sorry for writing here my personal issue. I want to know if i am the only one who has this problem.
I dont have problem with the changes on active skills, passives skills, classes and so on because this is quite common for zenimax online, and im sure im gonna adapt it again.
My problem is that morrowind looks like to me with major update or just anither Dlc. I don't understand why we have to buy this update. They should offer free the battlegrounds and they have to add the new map and the new class as a DLC.
As far as i remember on other games we had to buy expansions that had to offer 4-5 new dungeons 1-2 new raids ,10-15 new maps 1-2 new classes and a new story line and that was quite normal. I dont think that Morrowind is an expansion.

Buy the company and control how content is released. No? Cant?
Make your own game and offer all these things free. No? Cant?
Important part, they didn't describe it as an expansion either. Never have, specifically said it wasn't.

Morrowind is working a bit differently from most expansions. It is the game itself moving on, not just expanding (includes the base game form here on out). Some games do this, most keep base game + expansion(s), and some including old expansion in the base game.

Hands down, one of the big reasons they can't run it like a DLC is the new class. ESO+ runs out, now you cant play a character at all? Sure, they could separate it, but they didn't. Get used to it.

Elsonso

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

Yeah. I am guessing that selling DLCs and giving away free base game updates was not rocking their world. I see ESO at a crossroads.

In one direction, they can finish the transition to F2P, expand the Crown Crates to include something more compelling than fancy mounts, and really dive into the world of paid content sold in the Crown Store. They have not even started to mine that resource.

In another direction, they can double down on B2P and sell expansions that make people purchase the game again, every few months.

As a player, I do not want to have to evaluate each Crate season, store Showcase, and limited time offer to see if the gear that they are offering needs to be purchased, or the buff they are offering might help me in the game. I do not want them to monetize around the store as much as they are now, they are doing too much in that respect already.

By selling us Chapters, I think they are sending a message that they want to be a B2P where we buy expansions and the Crown Store is not intrusive. I think that if Chapters do not perform to their liking, we will get that Crown Store. Possibly in addition to Chapters.

So, I welcome the Chapters. I want this first one was absolutely compelling. A no brainer to purchase. I want this Chapter to sell millions so that they don't have to go the other direction.

Yes, I have pre-ordered Morrowind. I agree with the direction. I see it as much cheaper than the alternative.

Beesting

I have not preordered it because i am not excited with the changes that make playing the game harder, more tedious and less fun.
I wanted new and harder content, not the nerfs / chances to sustain.
Even now with all the bad healers and tanks not buffing and debuffing like they should, because they are new and there are no load screen tips telling them how important it is for good dps, the pledges take far too long.

So i dont know if the base game / current content will be fun to play after morrowind. If it would be i would have been happy to buy it, at the moment i am not sure.

Costismaros

colig wrote: »

"Other MMOs do this."
"It's only $$$, just save up."
"It's not a DLC, it's a chapter."
"You don't have to buy it. Base game is perfectly fine."
"ZOS is obligated to make as much money as they can."
"If you can't afford it, don't buy it and shut up."
"DOOOOOM GLOOM"
"cool story bro"
"Why do people complain so much?"
"ESO is different from other MMOs."

[

notimetocare wrote: »

Costismaros wrote: »

I am sorry for writing here my personal issue. I want to know if i am the only one who has this problem.
I dont have problem with the changes on active skills, passives skills, classes and so on because this is quite common for zenimax online, and im sure im gonna adapt it again.
My problem is that morrowind looks like to me with major update or just anither Dlc. I don't understand why we have to buy this update. They should offer free the battlegrounds and they have to add the new map and the new class as a DLC.
As far as i remember on other games we had to buy expansions that had to offer 4-5 new dungeons 1-2 new raids ,10-15 new maps 1-2 new classes and a new story line and that was quite normal. I dont think that Morrowind is an expansion.

Buy the company and control how content is released. No? Cant?
Make your own game and offer all these things free. No? Cant?
Important part, they didn't describe it as an expansion either. Never have, specifically said it wasn't.

Morrowind is working a bit differently from most expansions. It is the game itself moving on, not just expanding (includes the base game form here on out). Some games do this, most keep base game + expansion(s), and some including old expansion in the base game.

Hands down, one of the big reasons they can't run it like a DLC is the new class. ESO+ runs out, now you cant play a character at all? Sure, they could separate it, but they didn't. Get used to it.

Well mate i was anticipating this "Call it as you like" Morrowind for long time. I am one of the players who have played the game since the beginning and i have accomplished all the goals of it. I am not in good mood when i have to pay for play the same content especially when i own all the dlc's so far and i am +member as well. They had to add more content.

Malic

colig wrote: »

"Other MMOs do this."
"It's only $$$, just save up."
"It's not a DLC, it's a chapter."
"You don't have to buy it. Base game is perfectly fine."
"ZOS is obligated to make as much money as they can."
"If you can't afford it, don't buy it and shut up."
"DOOOOOM GLOOM"
"cool story bro"
"Why do people complain so much?"
"ESO is different from other MMOs."

Pretty much the above, someone will be along shortly to shout you down using one of the above points of logic.

You pretty much have to decide at this point do you want to keep playing or not. I personally dont have faith in ZOS they have had a long time to get things balanced for the part of the game I enjoy (pvp) they failed. Everyone has to make their own call, most relationships dont last forever.

Maybe for you OP its time for a break up. If so welcome to the club.

Beesting

To explain, i remember the imperial city patch that dropped the overwhelming set, that was bis because the martial knowledge only dropped in vr14.
But the problem was you had to run the dungeon 100 to 200 times to get one set of overwhelming. I did not think this was fun and refused to do it anymore after 30 dry runs. No loot = no fun = wasting my time

At the moment the game is fun because some things are still really hard to get, like a bsw sharpened staff, i did at least 150 runs on vcoa but never saw it drop but the dungeon is short so it does not matter that much.
I see people run normal aa and get a drop of IA sharpened staff, this makes me happy for them, one guy said he did it 350 times before he finally got it. Again, it does not matter because a run can be done in 10 mins with a social guild

At the moment i am lucky enough to do vmol a few times and week and clear it in reasonable time. This is fun even when i dont need the loot because it is a challenge. If the new trial was introduced without nerfing us, i am sure it would be fun and challenging as well.
But if we end up wiping on first or second boss for weeks and weeks on end i am doubtfull it will be worth it.

Then it will be back to mindless zerging pvp .... Even though i can't buy anything really usefull with ap.
I hope the nerfs will be reconsidered and i will be happy to pay for the dlc and play a lot of hours.

xeNNNNN

colig wrote: »

"Other MMOs do this."
"It's only $$$, just save up."
"It's not a DLC, it's a chapter."
"You don't have to buy it. Base game is perfectly fine."
"ZOS is obligated to make as much money as they can."
"If you can't afford it, don't buy it and shut up."
"DOOOOOM GLOOM"
"cool story bro"
"Why do people complain so much?"
"ESO is different from other MMOs."

I feel "triggered" now.

Lysette

I got a beta test invitation and do not even feel the urge to try it - I think it is massively overpriced and should be a DLC - I am not going to support this practice to go around ESO+ by calling it an upgrade - it is a DLC and I want it for free with ESO+, or I just let go on it and do not play it at all.

Xundiin

All DLC's are expansions, not all expansions are DLC's. Why is this you ask? Distribution. How is the product purchased and received. DLC's only come as digital data. Expansions are physical copies that you can hold in your hand. This is the difference.

ArchMikem

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

Lysette

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

Cpt_Teemo

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

You haven't played WoW: Legion yet have you?

Xundiin

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Lysette

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

Xundiin

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

/facepalm

ESO isn't even developed by the same team that does the single player game. And you are missing the point.... the barn door is in front of you and you shot behind you sort of missed.

The reason I said Make and forget is that's how single player games are developed. They have massive times working on ONE project. Once project is released, they split the team and down size a little. A small portion work on bug fixes. The rest of the time is working on the DLC (if there are going to be any). Once the game company feels the game is complete the entire team moves on to another game.... the game.. that you may love... is no longer in development.... it's forgotten. THAT is what is ment by make and forget.

MMO's are different. You have a large team developing the game. Once the game is release they go into bug squashing mode, while part of the team goes into making new content for the current game, and part another part of the team go into making expansions, and part of the team go into balancing mechanics. Non of those areas ever stop developing... ever. The game is a living breathing constantly being developed. It's why they say MMO's are a live. They need constant attention.

Lysette

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

/facepalm

ESO isn't even developed by the same team that does the single player game. And you are missing the point.... the barn door is in front of you and you shot behind you sort of missed.

The reason I said Make and forget is that's how single player games are developed. They have massive times working on ONE project. Once project is released, they split the team and down size a little. A small portion work on bug fixes. The rest of the time is working on the DLC (if there are going to be any). Once the game company feels the game is complete the entire team moves on to another game.... the game.. that you may love... is no longer in development.... it's forgotten. THAT is what is ment by make and forget.

MMO's are different. You have a large team developing the game. Once the game is release they go into bug squashing mode, while part of the team goes into making new content for the current game, and part another part of the team go into making expansions, and part of the team go into balancing mechanics. Non of those areas ever stop developing... ever. The game is a living breathing constantly being developed. It's why they say MMO's are a live. They need constant attention.

But that is their problem how they manage that and deliver still at an acceptable price - there are MMOs out there with much larger and more complex content, who do not need to rip of people and deliver this service at an acceptable price - it is the greediness of ZOS, which is putting me off that much - and it can be seen in so many areas of the game, where the effort required is actually very low (like a new texture on a mount) and they nevertheless demand a very high price for it. ZOS is just an awfully greedy company and it shows everywhere.

Graydon

Don't buy it

STEVIL

Costismaros wrote: »

I am sorry for writing here my personal issue. I want to know if i am the only one who has this problem.
I dont have problem with the changes on active skills, passives skills, classes and so on because this is quite common for zenimax online, and im sure im gonna adapt it again.
My problem is that morrowind looks like to me with major update or just anither Dlc. I don't understand why we have to buy this update. They should offer free the battlegrounds and they have to add the new map and the new class as a DLC.
As far as i remember on other games we had to buy expansions that had to offer 4-5 new dungeons 1-2 new raids ,10-15 new maps 1-2 new classes and a new story line and that was quite normal. I dont think that Morrowind is an expansion.

based on previous ESO history - DLC can offer you a zone - large or small - and some quests, skill lines and so on or maybe as little as a dungeon or two.

No ESo DLC in the past has offered a new class.

morrowind is offering the same DLC style content - not just two new dungeons - and also a class.

So it is clearly not "just another dlc".

i am ok for that reason with calling it an expansion.

but you dont have to be.

Balamoor

colig wrote: »

"Other MMOs do this."
"It's only $$$, just save up."
"It's not a DLC, it's a chapter."
"You don't have to buy it. Base game is perfectly fine."
"ZOS is obligated to make as much money as they can."
"If you can't afford it, don't buy it and shut up."
"DOOOOOM GLOOM"
"cool story bro"
"Why do people complain so much?"
"ESO is different from other MMOs."

Pretty much this^
Not that it's going to stop the same 15 people posting variations of the OP over and over and over and over and over......

Xundiin

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

/facepalm

ESO isn't even developed by the same team that does the single player game. And you are missing the point.... the barn door is in front of you and you shot behind you sort of missed.

The reason I said Make and forget is that's how single player games are developed. They have massive times working on ONE project. Once project is released, they split the team and down size a little. A small portion work on bug fixes. The rest of the time is working on the DLC (if there are going to be any). Once the game company feels the game is complete the entire team moves on to another game.... the game.. that you may love... is no longer in development.... it's forgotten. THAT is what is ment by make and forget.

MMO's are different. You have a large team developing the game. Once the game is release they go into bug squashing mode, while part of the team goes into making new content for the current game, and part another part of the team go into making expansions, and part of the team go into balancing mechanics. Non of those areas ever stop developing... ever. The game is a living breathing constantly being developed. It's why they say MMO's are a live. They need constant attention.

But that is their problem how they manage that and deliver still at an acceptable price - there are MMOs out there with much larger and more complex content, who do not need to rip of people and deliver this service at an acceptable price - it is the greediness of ZOS, which is putting me off that much - and it can be seen in so many areas of the game, where the effort required is actually very low (like a new texture on a mount) and they nevertheless demand a very high price for it. ZOS is just an awfully greedy company and it shows everywhere.

All game companies are greedy by an definition really. but that's what happens when you have investers standing over you with their hands out for the pay out of the investment.

You're not even paying the normal price you would for an expansion that other games do. unless you are buying the game for the first time you pay 60 for both the base and morrowind. if you already own the base game you pay 40. Considering WoW and just about every MMO that has a large update like this charges 60 plus you still need to buy the base game... or all the expansions in some cases. I'd say they are showing more logic in their pricing than most AAA MMO's in the past or currently are.

So your biggest complaint is you are used to single player games that charge you 10-15 dollars for an expansion vs an MMO that charges 60 on average. Take into account of the massive amounts of development a MMO needs over a single player game. It's not unreasonable until you have people like you who stomp their feet screaming foul because a company needs to make money to pay for the development team and other resources. Not to mention the investors.

zaria

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

/facepalm

ESO isn't even developed by the same team that does the single player game. And you are missing the point.... the barn door is in front of you and you shot behind you sort of missed.

The reason I said Make and forget is that's how single player games are developed. They have massive times working on ONE project. Once project is released, they split the team and down size a little. A small portion work on bug fixes. The rest of the time is working on the DLC (if there are going to be any). Once the game company feels the game is complete the entire team moves on to another game.... the game.. that you may love... is no longer in development.... it's forgotten. THAT is what is ment by make and forget.

MMO's are different. You have a large team developing the game. Once the game is release they go into bug squashing mode, while part of the team goes into making new content for the current game, and part another part of the team go into making expansions, and part of the team go into balancing mechanics. Non of those areas ever stop developing... ever. The game is a living breathing constantly being developed. It's why they say MMO's are a live. They need constant attention.

But that is their problem how they manage that and deliver still at an acceptable price - there are MMOs out there with much larger and more complex content, who do not need to rip of people and deliver this service at an acceptable price - it is the greediness of ZOS, which is putting me off that much - and it can be seen in so many areas of the game, where the effort required is actually very low (like a new texture on a mount) and they nevertheless demand a very high price for it. ZOS is just an awfully greedy company and it shows everywhere.

All game companies are greedy by an definition really. but that's what happens when you have investers standing over you with their hands out for the pay out of the investment.

You're not even paying the normal price you would for an expansion that other games do. unless you are buying the game for the first time you pay 60 for both the base and morrowind. if you already own the base game you pay 40. Considering WoW and just about every MMO that has a large update like this charges 60 plus you still need to buy the base game... or all the expansions in some cases. I'd say they are showing more logic in their pricing than most AAA MMO's in the past or currently are.

So your biggest complaint is you are used to single player games that charge you 10-15 dollars for an expansion vs an MMO that charges 60 on average. Take into account of the massive amounts of development a MMO needs over a single player game. It's not unreasonable until you have people like you who stomp their feet screaming foul because a company needs to make money to pay for the development team and other resources. Not to mention the investors.

This, you are pretty required to buy an WOW expansion as all end game move to it.
You are not required to buy Morrowind, you can play the game just fine without it.

zaria

Beesting wrote: »

To explain, i remember the imperial city patch that dropped the overwhelming set, that was bis because the martial knowledge only dropped in vr14.
But the problem was you had to run the dungeon 100 to 200 times to get one set of overwhelming. I did not think this was fun and refused to do it anymore after 30 dry runs. No loot = no fun = wasting my time

At the moment the game is fun because some things are still really hard to get, like a bsw sharpened staff, i did at least 150 runs on vcoa but never saw it drop but the dungeon is short so it does not matter that much.
I see people run normal aa and get a drop of IA sharpened staff, this makes me happy for them, one guy said he did it 350 times before he finally got it. Again, it does not matter because a run can be done in 10 mins with a social guild

At the moment i am lucky enough to do vmol a few times and week and clear it in reasonable time. This is fun even when i dont need the loot because it is a challenge. If the new trial was introduced without nerfing us, i am sure it would be fun and challenging as well.
But if we end up wiping on first or second boss for weeks and weeks on end i am doubtfull it will be worth it.

Then it will be back to mindless zerging pvp .... Even though i can't buy anything really usefull with ap.
I hope the nerfs will be reconsidered and i will be happy to pay for the dlc and play a lot of hours.

Yes the nerfs is my main reservation, not the price.
Will do some more testing on PTS and it will be an go / no go for me.

Vizier

It appears to be a slick way they skirted their agreement with subscribers by redefining what DLC is. If compared to other MMO "expansions," it's not an expansion. It sure has an expansion price tag though. They got that part right.

Elsonso

Lysette wrote: »

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

There is one thing that I have not forgotten about TES, and that is that each subsequent release from BGS has lower quality than the one before it. Quality is not only how many bugs it has, but also includes the quality of the design, the completeness of the game, and the longevity and value of the game. I don't rate the quality of my games based on how pretty it looks, what FPS I can get out of it with all settings maxed, and how "ENB" makes it look. By my observation, quality is pretty much the inverse of how pretty the game looks. I'd probably never put TES 6 down if the graphics looked like Minecraft, just because the quality would be through the roof.

When I first heard about Elder Scrolls Online back in 2013, I pretty much forgot about it immediately. I expected that ESO would be a failure and so out of my mind it went. Completely. I did not give it another thought until early 2014. It is just like I expect that TES 6 is going to the prettiest, most successful, failure in The Elder Scrolls series. ESO was going to be a flash in the pan followed by an implosion that would go largely unnoticed.

This is what I expected out of ESO. 1127 days later, I am still here. If you had told me at any time in 2013 that I would be playing Elder Scrolls Online in 2017, I would have looked at you like you were insane. I guess I am the insane one.

Morrowind. It is expensive, by itself, but cheap compared to how much time I have already spent with the game. The question has never been whether Morrowind was worth pre-ordering a copy. For me, it is. I already approve of this direction and think it is the right thing for them to do. The real question has always been how far above that line the Chapter is when it finally ships. For the answer to that, we have to look at PTS.

Mattock_Romulus

Once ZOS realized people would spend exorbitant amounts of money on Crown Crates, Caves and Islands it was a no brainer to charge for a DLC. The community has shown they will spend money on anything so why not charge them for a DLC as well.

Lysette

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Agree. Morrowind is too small to be called expansion. Part of the content from it should be in free update. Rest should be as regular DLC, which we should have access as long as we have ESO+ membership.

"Should" is too strong a word for the basic consumer to use when talking about a Company's business model.

Vvardenfell is going to be much larger than Orsinium, which was pretty damn big and is still the biggest DLC zone to date. Now ZOS is giving us an even LARGER zone and people are complaining about the sale price and method of that sale?

well, it might be large - but the price is like for a really huge landmass and content - I mean it cost like witcher 3, which was about 1.5 times the size of GTA 5 - what is morrowind compared to that?- tiny - it is massívely overpriced.

And the whole time Witcher was being developed they had the entire team developing only that game.... Unlike an MMO where you have your team doing not only new content, but current content, and bug fixes introduced by new content. What's the difference you ask? Single player games are make and forget. Move to the next project. MMO's are living games. They evolve over the years and are in constant development on multiple fronts. Multiple projects.

Well, don't forget that Morrowind is based on a single player game, like the whole ESO MMO - if it would be like you said, and it would be make and forget, there would be no ESO - there is just ESO, because the TES series has been unforgettable. And why was that?- Because they delivered quality for the time where it was released at a very acceptable price - whereas this here now is just ripping off people.

/facepalm

ESO isn't even developed by the same team that does the single player game. And you are missing the point.... the barn door is in front of you and you shot behind you sort of missed.

The reason I said Make and forget is that's how single player games are developed. They have massive times working on ONE project. Once project is released, they split the team and down size a little. A small portion work on bug fixes. The rest of the time is working on the DLC (if there are going to be any). Once the game company feels the game is complete the entire team moves on to another game.... the game.. that you may love... is no longer in development.... it's forgotten. THAT is what is ment by make and forget.

MMO's are different. You have a large team developing the game. Once the game is release they go into bug squashing mode, while part of the team goes into making new content for the current game, and part another part of the team go into making expansions, and part of the team go into balancing mechanics. Non of those areas ever stop developing... ever. The game is a living breathing constantly being developed. It's why they say MMO's are a live. They need constant attention.

But that is their problem how they manage that and deliver still at an acceptable price - there are MMOs out there with much larger and more complex content, who do not need to rip of people and deliver this service at an acceptable price - it is the greediness of ZOS, which is putting me off that much - and it can be seen in so many areas of the game, where the effort required is actually very low (like a new texture on a mount) and they nevertheless demand a very high price for it. ZOS is just an awfully greedy company and it shows everywhere.

All game companies are greedy by an definition really. but that's what happens when you have investers standing over you with their hands out for the pay out of the investment.

You're not even paying the normal price you would for an expansion that other games do. unless you are buying the game for the first time you pay 60 for both the base and morrowind. if you already own the base game you pay 40. Considering WoW and just about every MMO that has a large update like this charges 60 plus you still need to buy the base game... or all the expansions in some cases. I'd say they are showing more logic in their pricing than most AAA MMO's in the past or currently are.

So your biggest complaint is you are used to single player games that charge you 10-15 dollars for an expansion vs an MMO that charges 60 on average. Take into account of the massive amounts of development a MMO needs over a single player game. It's not unreasonable until you have people like you who stomp their feet screaming foul because a company needs to make money to pay for the development team and other resources. Not to mention the investors.

I play EVE online since 2008 - i get all expansions with the subscription, there are no extra costs - and I can even pay for the subscription with ingame currency (buying game time from others with it) - it does not have to be like ZOS and others are handling it - it can be great value for a very reasonable price as well - EVE online is the best example for that.