Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Vigor Nerf
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Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭people that say vigor was OP never used vigor. Nerfing vigor is basically nerfing stam nb's to the ground even more than they already are.Edited by Kalante on May 2, 2017 3:49AM8 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.
That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet itwas used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)
Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.
Obiously a shield stacking easy mode magick user... Try playing a nb with rally n vigor and then come back and talk all you want, It is called playing hard mode now days... Sorcs on the other hand not only have unlimited shields but also a 1 button forget about it curse...free dps for dummies lol! U wont miss a rotation now
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%
Please read the post ... they did reduce it with less major mending and champ point passives.... it's much more then 2% for me it's -37% less healing and cost 50% more ... most people haveno clue....
*30% more.
And I agree, adjusting the healing is not needed with the cost increase.
5% flat cost increase for stam moves, the 16% cost reduction from cp that is now gone, and the up to 7% cost reduction from medium armor, on top of the extra 30% cost increase for this one skill, so it is really almost 60% more expensive.
I like the idea for 2 morphs, one that heals just you for more, say 1.5x more then the other morph that heals you and everyone around you.2 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭C'mon guys It's no surprise as there's no other "class" that has a Stamina fast Heal...oh wait.
Edited by Cronopoly on May 2, 2017 4:55AM0 -
GiuEliN0✭✭✭For all the peoples saying Vigor was op... Ok its an opinion... But please try do vMa with the new Vigor in stamina build(not stam sorc) and let me know how is going... really how someone already stated change a morph to self heal only... And let the cost a little bit increased... Dont kill every stam build without 2H...
I can stay with a cost increase of 15%... But not how It is right now in PtsBeta-tester January 2014
PC EU
Most Important Character:
Elsewin, DC, Bosmer Stamblade PVE cp 1100+ Flawless Conqueror
https://signatur.eso-database.com/12343192/signatur.jpg0 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭For all the peoples saying Vigor was op... Ok its an opinion... But please try do vMa with the new Vigor in stamina build(not stam sorc) and let me know how is going... really how someone already stated change a morph to self heal only... And let the cost a little bit increased... Dont kill every stam build without 2H...
I can stay with a cost increase of 15%... But not how It is right now in Pts
Exactly this. I've just started doing vMSA on my stamblade and keeping Vigor up all the time is virtually the only way to survive all the incoming damage, especially if you don't know all the spawn points by memory. The heals form Bloodcraze/Bloodthirst is not enough to keep us alive if anything goes wrong.4 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This nerf to cost needs to reversed. A heal over time is not the same thing as an instant shield for Magicka players and so you can't increase the cost of Vigor just because it's cheaper. It typically takes multiple Vigor casts to fully regain health whereas it only takes a single Healing Ward cast.
If you absolutely have to nerf Vigor then nerf the heal to other players or remove the heal to other players entirely from Resolving Vigor. Either one is a much better change than just a blanket 30% cost increase much it even harder to survive in harder content on Stamina classes like Nightblade that have no passive bonus to healing received.7 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭so this is just next reason to not stay in this game while only fun I have while playing on my stamblade which is gets just more rekt
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JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭Vigor atm is a very STRONG heal ,
No one can say its not. the biggest problem is when its mixed with rally
I can have a stam build under %20 health and buy the time i get my execute off there back to plus %75 health.
Its like a lot of things in this game that , its not a real big problem by itself but mixed with other things, is when the problem happens , ZOS needs to look at the big pic and act on things more often.
I think a lot of thing s are going to be for the good in the long run.
Its a big change this up coming patch and take time to get used to it
BUT LIFE WILL GO ON AND SO WILL ESO
TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp1 -
SirCritical✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »I understand that Vigor is a very powerful AoE heal but most people could care less about that as many use it as a self heal. Increasing the cost is just overkill, many would prefer you simply lessen the amount of AoE healing done. If you are going to nerf Vigor, you need to give all stamina classes a skill that is like crit-surge for the sorc. The siphoning attacks changes are OK in this manner BUT they do not heal enough to be on par with crit-surge. Repetence just got gutted and needs to be reverted to it's older state if this vigor nerf goes live. Stamina nightblades often use vigor in PvE (And PvP settings) as it is a more potent heal overtime on yourself. My suggestion would be to lessing the AoE healing done of the Resolving vigor morph, while still retaining it's cost on live. The AoE healing morph of Vigor would cost more, but do more healing to those around you, have a larger radius, and probably cost slightly more.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I would just make Resolving Vigor a self-heal only, and Echoing Vigor the AoE heal. Adjust the costs and tooltip values accordingly.
And/or make Swallow Soul stamina-based1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭JonnytheKing wrote: »Vigor atm is a very STRONG heal ,
No one can say its not. the biggest problem is when its mixed with rally
I can have a stam build under %20 health and buy the time i get my execute off there back to plus %75 health.
Its like a lot of things in this game that , its not a real big problem by itself but mixed with other things, is when the problem happens , ZOS needs to look at the big pic and act on things more often.
I think a lot of thing s are going to be for the good in the long run.
Its a big change this up coming patch and take time to get used to it
BUT LIFE WILL GO ON AND SO WILL ESO
oh yeas very strong heal sure.....but I need 100% uptime of it on duels on stamblade so I need to recast it always after 5 sec if I can because if not my health just drastically is going down from dots and other skills, I will just got rekt by sorc combo or templar power of the light itp if I will lose my vigor up...I just have 1-2k crit heal tick on medium armor while people in stupid heavy + ofc their major mending have 3-4k crit healticks because of heavy armor bonus to healing recevied
yes..this heal is very strong but on heavy armor with bonuses to healing...in pure medium armor this heals isnt that strong and you need mostly to dodge while its up to noot take next damage while healing while heavy armor just tanking but its other way
EDIT: with not to mention taking away guaranteed crit while hide/cloak which will just more hurt nb with cloak alsow this this healingEdited by Edziu on May 2, 2017 10:36AM1 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Omg I agree it's to cheap .... but 50% increase is to much when you consider we use that same pool for damage and mobility... the overall reduction in availability vigor and healing passives make this HOT much weaker.... It's was stacked nerfed that's what I'm trying to say please go to test and test before you make a comment...with a defile and the stamina classes except templar unable use purge it's bad...Edited by Durham on May 2, 2017 11:20AMPVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables3 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%
Please read the post ... they did reduce it with less major mending and champ point passives.... it's much more then 2% for me it's -37% less healing and cost 50% more ... most people haveno clue....
Yeah you're combing two things together. Vigor never gave major mending so technically you're talking about a nerf to two skills not just vigor. I get what you're saying, but major mending with vigor is for sure overkill and the change is much appreciated from my perspective. I'm tired of running into invincible templars...0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.
That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet itwas used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)
Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.
A single cast of vigor to heal you to full health would delve for 56k ... that's a 28k heal in PVP lol... ok you have no clue what your talking about....
VIGOR delves for 11k in heavy without major mending lol....you have to keep vigor going in PVP not hit it one time lol
For most NB it's around 10k
Do you even play stamina classes? I have NEVER seen a vigor hit 28k, thats average 5k+ a tic which is absolutely outrageous even with 100 in blessed. Quit spewing out false information, if your ignorant to a matter you have no place speaking on it.
Edited by templesus on May 2, 2017 2:34PM5 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%
Please read the post ... they did reduce it with less major mending and champ point passives.... it's much more then 2% for me it's -37% less healing and cost 50% more ... most people haveno clue....
Yeah you're combing two things together. Vigor never gave major mending so technically you're talking about a nerf to two skills not just vigor. I get what you're saying, but major mending with vigor is for sure overkill and the change is much appreciated from my perspective. I'm tired of running into invincible templars...
Yes im talking about the stacking of nerfs in this patch... not just healing but many other things....
VIGOR cost 30% nerf
Stam reduction cost nerf 10 to 15%
Stam 5% stealth nerf all abilities...
Armor reduction nerf
Major mending nerf
Defiles getting major buff. Major defiles will effect you for 10 secs on most abilities an defile you 60 to 70% that with out a poison going off....
This is stacking!!!
This was to much . Stam was hit way to hard...
Another example:
Stam DK meta were hit with 9 stacking nerfs ... it's unplayable in pvp...
Edited by Durham on May 2, 2017 2:42PMPVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Keep in mind most of us are talking from a PVP perspective not PVE ... in PVP it's divided x2 and you pretty much have to keep it going constantly in fights it's not as strong a heal per cast as you think ... about 5k to 7k over 5 secs .
Name another heal that's 1k per tick that doesn't require slotting a weapon? There's legitimate reasons why the cost was increased.
You're trying to compare Stam playstyle to magical, When they aren't similar at all. Magicka has burst heals, bol, twilight, coag, healing g ward, burning embers, etc. Stam has no burst heal. You can argue rally, but thats a burst heal once every 5-10 seconds, any sooner and it won't heal you for anything, and dont even get me started on draining shot. Furthermore, every magicka class has class based ways of healing, name another class based heal that doesn't require being magicka? Oh thats right you can't, at least until warden comes out. Almost everyone on this post arguing for the nerf has likely never played stamina a down in there lives and just need to l2p against them.4 -
dirtykdx✭✭✭Do you even play stamina classes? I have NEVER seen a vigor hit 28k, thats average 5k+ a tic which is absolutely outrageous even with 100 in blessed. Quit spewing out false information, if your ignorant to a matter you have no place speaking on it.
Think something here was lost in the quoting...I think this was what was referred to:That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet it was used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)
Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.
So, when he (or her) said this:A single cast of vigor to heal you to full health would delve for 56k ... that's a 28k heal in PVP lol... ok you have no clue what your talking about....
VIGOR delves for 11k in heavy without major mending lol....you have to keep vigor going in PVP not hit it one time lol
For most NB it's around 10k
He was agreeing with what you're arguing with him (or her) about.
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor -> Rally -> dodge roll cancel behind LoS object -> back to full HP. Proper stam builds don't even break a sweat on live doing this. Just saying.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you even play stamina classes? I have NEVER seen a vigor hit 28k, thats average 5k+ a tic which is absolutely outrageous even with 100 in blessed. Quit spewing out false information, if your ignorant to a matter you have no place speaking on it.
Think something here was lost in the quoting...I think this was what was referred to:That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet it was used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)
Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.
So, when he (or her) said this:A single cast of vigor to heal you to full health would delve for 56k ... that's a 28k heal in PVP lol... ok you have no clue what your talking about....
VIGOR delves for 11k in heavy without major mending lol....you have to keep vigor going in PVP not hit it one time lol
For most NB it's around 10k
He was agreeing with what you're arguing with him (or her) about.
Oh thanks for clarifying, I knew that had to be ajoke0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vigor -> Rally -> dodge roll cancel behind LoS object -> back to full HP. Proper stam builds don't even break a sweat on live doing this. Just saying.
Bol-Shield Stack-Coag-->Mist form behind LoS object-->repeat--> back to full HP. Proper magicka builds dont even break a sweat doing this on live. Just saying.4 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You don't have always Stamina to break CC to get your OP shield stack up again. Just saying.Edited by Feanor on May 2, 2017 2:56PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Killset✭✭✭✭Vigor -> Rally -> dodge roll cancel behind LoS object -> back to full HP. Proper stam builds don't even break a sweat on live doing this. Just saying.
Ahhhh... The LoS addition to your hypothetical equation. Perhaps ZOS will give stam users an ultimate where they summon a rock and a tree to circle until they get there health back. Don't use something that every single class, magic or stamina, does to support your argument. Just saying.
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Killset✭✭✭✭I think a lot of people confuse Vigor with Vigor buffed my major mending or major vitality. Those two together are strong. However, I think they are perfectly balanced with the amount of damage thrown around in PvP. Maining a Stamblade, I assure you, Vigor by itself is not strong. Healing can be downright brutal on a NB.
It's fairly obvious that the people complaining Vigor is too strong main magic classes. And the Rally plus Vigor argument is BS. I have to wait about 10 seconds for Rally to be worth anything so it is situational at best. It's like if Sorcs had to cast their Hardened Ward then let it charge for 10-15 seconds, then cast it again to get the effect. If they Activate it early, it is diminished to the point of near uselessness. Maybe that is a good solution to Shieldstacking.
For the record, Shields on my Sorc are about 1,000 times better than Vigor on my NB. Period. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say "man my Vigor is too strong on my NB!" And next patch, aside from Warden, every stam class will be healing like a NB. Welcome to the S#!+ show!5 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Let's see. Stamina classes use stamina for- attacking
- defending
- roll dodging
- break free
- sprinting
- healing
What current patch gives us compared to live- all stamina skills we use for attacking are 5% more expensive
- medium armor was nerfed cost wise by 1% per piece, resulting in 5-7% more expensive skills, compared to live
- break free and roll dodging are now separate things in CP trees, making us spend far more points into these than before
- block cost 2x more now and is less reliable option since it needs to be timed 2x better. With lag we have, I say GG Zos.
- only reliable self heal cost even more than other stuff stamina related.
Based on all of this, we would need about 45k stamina to stay as mobile and effective as someone with 35k atm on live. And don't get me wrong, HA meta just does not work in PvP.2 -
ljb2k5_ESO✭✭✭so this is just next reason to not stay in this game while only fun I have while playing on my stamblade which is gets just more rekt
Yep pretty much in the same boat. My stamblade is pretty much dead, there is a loss of uniqueness, a loss of efficacy, a loss of fun. I can't come up with reasons to keep going in this game if the PTS goes live, so I guess it was fun while it lasted time to move on if goes live. I may move on regardless because even if they don't go live, I am worried about the line of thinking and direction these notes indicates from the dev team.2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno The people have spoken!Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »so this is just next reason to not stay in this game while only fun I have while playing on my stamblade which is gets just more rekt
Yep pretty much in the same boat. My stamblade is pretty much dead, there is a loss of uniqueness, a loss of efficacy, a loss of fun. I can't come up with reasons to keep going in this game if the PTS goes live, so I guess it was fun while it lasted time to move on if goes live. I may move on regardless because even if they don't go live, I am worried about the line of thinking and direction these notes indicates from the dev team.
I have a feeling this will be more common then not... this is the biggest and most unpopular nerf patch in the games history.... Zos is not going to change course on this folks... I only seen a few companies go against customer wishes and wants they have 1 thing all in common they no longer exist...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables1 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭I understand that Vigor is a very powerful AoE heal but most people could care less about that as many use it as a self heal. Increasing the cost is just overkill, many would prefer you simply lessen the amount of AoE healing done. If you are going to nerf Vigor, you need to give all stamina classes a skill that is like crit-surge for the sorc. The siphoning attacks changes are OK in this manner BUT they do not heal enough to be on par with crit-surge. Repetence just got gutted and needs to be reverted to it's older state if this vigor nerf goes live. Stamina nightblades often use vigor in PvE (And PvP settings) as it is a more potent heal overtime on yourself. My suggestion would be to lessing the AoE healing done of the Resolving vigor morph, while still retaining it's cost on live. The AoE healing morph of Vigor would cost more, but do more healing to those around you, have a larger radius, and probably cost slightly more.
@ZOS_RichLambert
You're forgetting that harness costs like 3k Magicka and hardened 3k magicka they are expensive unlike vigor0 -
Killset✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »I understand that Vigor is a very powerful AoE heal but most people could care less about that as many use it as a self heal. Increasing the cost is just overkill, many would prefer you simply lessen the amount of AoE healing done. If you are going to nerf Vigor, you need to give all stamina classes a skill that is like crit-surge for the sorc. The siphoning attacks changes are OK in this manner BUT they do not heal enough to be on par with crit-surge. Repetence just got gutted and needs to be reverted to it's older state if this vigor nerf goes live. Stamina nightblades often use vigor in PvE (And PvP settings) as it is a more potent heal overtime on yourself. My suggestion would be to lessing the AoE healing done of the Resolving vigor morph, while still retaining it's cost on live. The AoE healing morph of Vigor would cost more, but do more healing to those around you, have a larger radius, and probably cost slightly more.
@ZOS_RichLambert
You're forgetting that harness costs like 3k Magicka and hardened 3k magicka they are expensive unlike vigor
You are forgetting that Harness almost pays for Itself and Hardened. And don't forget being able to run Lich, another 5 piece, and a monster set as of One Tamriel.
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