Vigor Nerf

Durham

Minno wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet itwas used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)

Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.

A single cast of vigor to heal you to full health would delve for 56k ... that's a 28k heal in PVP lol... ok you have no clue what your talking about....

VIGOR delves for 11k in heavy without major mending lol....you have to keep vigor going in PVP not hit it one time lol

For most NB it's around 10k

dirtykdx

It's not just a nerf for individual DPS in PVE.

You think you're going to stay alive during the execute phase of the mage without the extra HoT ticks from the tank(s) firing shields + vigor? That's cute. You'll be trying to keep harness magicka up and you'll run dry and die trying to heavy attack her to death. Not to mention powerful assault is DEAD. So, no more group buffs there.

All nerfs stack. This does affect you magicka guys and gals as well.

DHale

Or how bout we leave it as is.

Hutch679

Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%

DisgracefulMind

dirtykdx wrote: »

It's not just a nerf for individual DPS in PVE.

You think you're going to stay alive during the execute phase of the mage without the extra HoT ticks from the tank(s) firing shields + vigor? That's cute. You'll be trying to keep harness magicka up and you'll run dry and die trying to heavy attack her to death. Not to mention powerful assault is DEAD. So, no more group buffs there.

All nerfs stack. This does affect you magicka guys and gals as well.

Why would your two healers have problems keeping springs up on your group on the execute phase of The Mage? It's not hard to quickly swap to drain the boss, then swap back to your heal bar. Also, it's fairly easy to shoot out a couple of orbs too. And tanks will most likely be fine using vigor during that execute phase because they won't be using their stamina for anything else.
I'm not seeing the issue here.
Vigor is extremely powerful, and I can't say I disagree with ZoS on this part that it needed a cost increase.

Durham

Hutch679 wrote: »

Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%

Please read the post ... they did reduce it with less major mending and champ point passives.... it's much more then 2% for me it's -37% less healing and cost 50% more ... most people haveno clue....

DisgracefulMind

Durham wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%

Please read the post ... they did reduce it with less major mending and champ point passives.... it's much more then 2% for me it's -37% less healing and cost 50% more ... most people haveno clue....

*30% more.
And I agree, adjusting the healing is not needed with the cost increase.

Rohamad_Ali

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

All they did was increase the cost. Now I get that the sustain changes are hitting everyone hard, but vigor literally costs nothing on live as it is currently.

But those cost reductions in CP are no longer available like on live and getting stamina back is a pain in butt with new passive changes . There so many changes to consider , I wish they would hold off on chopping everything until we can see exactly the effects with sustaine and cp changes before cutting a AW Skill up .

Minno

Durham wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet itwas used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)

Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.

A single cast of vigor to heal you to full health would delve for 56k ... that's a 28k heal in PVP lol... ok you have no clue what your talking about....

VIGOR delves for 11k in heavy without major mending lol....you have to keep vigor going in PVP not hit it one time lol

For most NB it's around 10k

Ok so then if it wasn't a problem why was the cost increased?

Some players only used vigor ignoring similar issues players had with BoL, which was used in a similar manner as a spamable (and hence why I said it brought you back to full bar).

Similar magicka hots are run in that you ride the duration due to the costs. Having vigor run in the same intent means stamina now has to understand they have high dmg but at risk of not having a consistent strong self heal.

SodanTok

LiquidPony wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

@sodantokb16_ESO

What you're basically saying is that ZOS lied in the PTS v3.0.0 patch notes, then:

Vigor was too cheap for an area of effect healing ability, so we’ve increased its cost so there is more of an impact to keeping the heal over time buff active.

Vigor's ticks are pretty small even when they crit.

They didn't lie. It was too cheap for AoE HoT. It would be still too cheap for single target AoE.

You can all complain whatever you want. About shields or smth, but dont tell me it was not god damn cheap skill that you could run always forever. Complain about shields if thats what your problem is with, not about deserved nerf.

@sodantokb16_ESO I didn't say anything about shields, keep your conversations straight.

And what, exactly, is a "single-target AoE?"

You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

"You can all" was obviously meant at everyone not just you. And shields were example (ergo the "smth). From sentence before about AoE HoT one would guess I made error and obviously meant in the next sentence single target heal. I guess this would all require some thinking you werent capable of.

Sanctum74

It should cost more, even without major mending its a huge heal over time. Its twice the heal of bol and enables stam users to go on the offensive. The resto heal ticks are tiny compared to vigor unless you wanna spam heals or invest heavily into cp healing. So in comparison to other heals its still a great skill for the cost.

DisgracefulMind

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

All they did was increase the cost. Now I get that the sustain changes are hitting everyone hard, but vigor literally costs nothing on live as it is currently.

But those cost reductions in CP are no longer available like on live and getting stamina back is a pain in butt with new passive changes . There so many changes to consider , I wish they would hold off on chopping everything until we can see exactly the effects with sustaine and cp changes before cutting a AW Skill up .

Now I will agree there, they should have done more testing. However, I don't think the vigor nerf will turn out to be that catastrophic.

But yeah, ZoS didn't think a lot of things through for this patch. We'll just have to wait and see what ends up on live.

Minno

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It should cost more, even without major mending its a huge heal over time. Its twice the heal of bol and enables stam users to go on the offensive. The resto heal ticks are tiny compared to vigor unless you wanna spam heals or invest heavily into cp healing. So in comparison to other heals its still a great skill for the cost.

If tooltip says 10k over 5 seconds, that's 2k per tick. Even troll King is less heal per second lol. Extended ritual is like 1k every 2 sec with 40k mag/2k SD.

Durham

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It should cost more, even without major mending its a huge heal over time. Its twice the heal of bol and enables stam users to go on the offensive. The resto heal ticks are tiny compared to vigor unless you wanna spam heals or invest heavily into cp healing. So in comparison to other heals its still a great skill for the cost.

It's 5-6k heal that costs 4k to cast yea its a huge heal lol
It delves for 11k in heavy ... now divide by 2 please ... stop comparing to rest staff....

Durham

Minno wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It should cost more, even without major mending its a huge heal over time. Its twice the heal of bol and enables stam users to go on the offensive. The resto heal ticks are tiny compared to vigor unless you wanna spam heals or invest heavily into cp healing. So in comparison to other heals its still a great skill for the cost.

If tooltip says 10k over 5 seconds, that's 2k per tick. Even troll King is less heal per second lol. Extended ritual is like 1k every 2 sec with 40k mag/2k SD.

Your comparing it to extended ritual why??????lol omg .... doesn't that also give you major mending and purge .. my stamplar i use that purging and major mending not healing..... please... and also comparing it to troll why would you do that???

Malamar1229

they dont have to give after taking. game balanced around groups not solos. Get your healing from a healer.....

shouldnt have ever given big ass heals to giant sword wielding, heavy armor, hard hitting melee classes. thats not balance.

Durham

Malamar1229 wrote: »

they dont have to give after taking. game balanced around groups not solos. Get your healing from a healer.....

shouldnt have ever given big ass heals to giant sword wielding, heavy armor, hard hitting melee classes. thats not balance.

Lol you do know that this game is based off of a rpg.. right ... the game is designed to be played solo if wanted

Minno

Durham wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It should cost more, even without major mending its a huge heal over time. Its twice the heal of bol and enables stam users to go on the offensive. The resto heal ticks are tiny compared to vigor unless you wanna spam heals or invest heavily into cp healing. So in comparison to other heals its still a great skill for the cost.

If tooltip says 10k over 5 seconds, that's 2k per tick. Even troll King is less heal per second lol. Extended ritual is like 1k every 2 sec with 40k mag/2k SD.

Your comparing it to extended ritual why??????lol omg .... doesn't that also give you major mending and purge .. my stamplar i use that purging and major mending not healing..... please... and also comparing it to troll why would you do that???

What should I compare it to? Air?
Those, with exception to troll King, are heals over time. Health recovery is still technically a heal over time, but not negated by defiles.

Compared to mutagen, mutagen is 14000k over 20 seconds with 40k mag 2k sd. Meaning that's 700 heals per tick on tooltip. 350 heals in cyro, babe.

Vigor can get you 1k per tick in cyro. Currently OP given 2333 stamina if you run only one piece medium.

Unless you want the heal decreased for the same cost as live?

Durham

Keep in mind most of us are talking from a PVP perspective not PVE ... in PVP it's divided x2 and you pretty much have to keep it going constantly in fights it's not as strong a heal per cast as you think ... about 5k to 7k over 5 secs .

Minno

Durham wrote: »

Keep in mind most of us are talking from a PVP perspective not PVE ... in PVP it's divided x2 and you pretty much have to keep it going constantly in fights it's not as strong a heal per cast as you think ... about 5k to 7k over 5 secs .

Name another heal that's 1k per tick that doesn't require slotting a weapon? There's legitimate reasons why the cost was increased.

Malamar1229

Durham wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

they dont have to give after taking. game balanced around groups not solos. Get your healing from a healer.....

shouldnt have ever given big ass heals to giant sword wielding, heavy armor, hard hitting melee classes. thats not balance.

Lol you do know that this game is based off of a rpg.. right ... the game is designed to be played solo if wanted

im not going to bother elaborating since you are clueless to what an MMO is and what this game was advertised as.

KingJ

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Increasing the cost was a great change. Honestly they should reduce the amount it heals by about 2%

Please read the post ... they did reduce it with less major mending and champ point passives.... it's much more then 2% for me it's -37% less healing and cost 50% more ... most people haveno clue....

*30% more.
And I agree, adjusting the healing is not needed with the cost increase.

It more than 30$ with the removal of cost reduction from Cp and the change to medium armor its more than a 30% increase.You have to look at all the changes made.

Ocelot9x

Imho vigor nerf is in line with zos mentality: nerf skilled play styles so baddies can kill something without putting efforts

Edziu

Minno wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Keep in mind most of us are talking from a PVP perspective not PVE ... in PVP it's divided x2 and you pretty much have to keep it going constantly in fights it's not as strong a heal per cast as you think ... about 5k to 7k over 5 secs .

Name another heal that's 1k per tick that doesn't require slotting a weapon? There's legitimate reasons why the cost was increased.

so give us please more stam heals from maybe weapons? which dont need to hit your target to give you heal like draining shot need, bloodthirst need and thats all lol, we have only rally from 2h with 500 -1k crit heals per tick and hels for 10k with crit once per 15+ seconds going on this buff and we have only vigor to this which dont need a target to heal us while after all not only you have resto staff but many of class skills are with healing based on magica ofc

olsborg

It would be so needed, and so awesome, if they would just make one of the vigor morphs a selfheal only, and not cost the whole world to cast it.

olsborg

Durham wrote: »

No reason to increase the cost of vigor. ...after buffing defile, increasing stam cost (nerf)... changes in healing (nerf) .
The major mending (nerf)

Right now ...
VIGOR costs 50% more this to much period...
VIGOR heals for less cham point change
VIGOR heals for less because of major mending nerf
VIGOR heals for less because defile is more potent

That basicly affects all heals.
And the funny thing is, damage-shields stay exactly the same.

Durham

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

they dont have to give after taking. game balanced around groups not solos. Get your healing from a healer.....

shouldnt have ever given big ass heals to giant sword wielding, heavy armor, hard hitting melee classes. thats not balance.

Lol you do know that this game is based off of a rpg.. right ... the game is designed to be played solo if wanted

im not going to bother elaborating since you are clueless to what an MMO is and what this game was advertised as.

Nope not clueless but they did make this game to be soloable..... it's was also advertised to be able to soloed... but mute point ... going back to healing we already run 1 to 2 dedicated healers without them we lose most fights with decent setup groups ..... we run 6 to 7 with 3 to 4 stam classes ... our vigor is to weak for healing as a group...

Durham

olsborg wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

No reason to increase the cost of vigor. ...after buffing defile, increasing stam cost (nerf)... changes in healing (nerf) .
The major mending (nerf)

Right now ...
VIGOR costs 50% more this to much period...
VIGOR heals for less cham point change
VIGOR heals for less because of major mending nerf
VIGOR heals for less because defile is more potent

That basicly affects all heals.
And the funny thing is, damage-shields stay exactly the same.

But all healing cost was not increased 50% and not healing is heals over time ... we can't stack it ... if you spam it It serves no purpose....

Anti_Virus

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

they dont have to give after taking. game balanced around groups not solos. Get your healing from a healer.....

shouldnt have ever given big ass heals to giant sword wielding, heavy armor, hard hitting melee classes. thats not balance.

Lol you do know that this game is based off of a rpg.. right ... the game is designed to be played solo if wanted

im not going to bother elaborating since you are clueless to what an MMO is and what this game was advertised as.

Aren't you from the crowd that complains about Zerging?

Dragath

vigor is too cheap on live, even for a single target heal.
look at the cost of magicka based heals that heal for the same amount. they are much more expensive.