Daily Limit for Stolen Goods

Jollygoodusername · May 2017

There shouldn't be a limit. Common sense! They just needed to fill the Leger skill line with something to make it a skill point sink.

Jollygoodusername · May 2017

"Don't fence white items" What the hell does that have to do with an arbitrary limit? I can loot as many chests per day, that have gold in them, as I want. I dunno, this is just one of those cheap mechanics that annoys me. It's already screwed up that even with all the blue items found, you get caught at some point and end up paying back a percentage of what you earned at the fence.

The gold from thin air argument is kind of silly considering all the other places one gets gold...from thin air >_<

Gargath · May 2017

Really , what's wrong with "generating new gold into the game economy"? If you grind for gold at npcs isn't this generating new gold out of nowhere? Or when you grind day by day for those most expensive sets and sell many of them to other players, don't you put a lot of gold into game economy? From my point of view you get the sets and sell them on the same way like I get the loot from thievery and sell. We both put some time into out activities and rely on rng before we sell. The difference is that you can sell unlimited amount of items while my sales are limited and less profitable. Either way we both generate profit on items we get out of nowhere.
Also, when grinding I can get hundreds of CP160 gears that each costs 50-78 g and there is no limit of selling them to npcs. I can even play whole day and sell thousand of those gears to npc merchants, but can sell only 140 stolen items. Where is logic in this?

Kiralyn2000 · May 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

OlafdieWaldfee wrote: »

I´m at legerdemain 20 and out of 140 stolen items I get 20-30 green, 1-2 blue and 0.1 purple items.
Guess I´m just unlucky, then. If I would only fence green and above I would cut my profit severly, because the time to get enough green/blue/purples would eat up all my gaming-time.

Wow! That is way, way lower that my average. For every white, I usually have 3-4 greens and one blue.

So I just took four passes through the Altmer Embassy in Grahtwood on my Leg20 Nightblade. Bunch of containers, a bit of pickpocketing (only 100% attempts).

Got 2 equipment items (white belt, 27g; green necklace 47g), a couple green furniture patterns, and an Ancient Elf Motif book.
Fence items: 2 blue, 35 green, 39 white; 76 total

-
Meanwhile, I counted on a few of my low-level craft writ alts, one pass through the Lydia in Daggerfall harbor:
Leg19 - 2 blue, 8 green, 12 white (22)
Leg17 - 1 blue, 7 green, 14 white (22)
Leg20 - 0 blue, 8 green, 6 white (yep, just 14. Yay, RNG!)
along with ~50-60 laundered provisioning mats each.
Plus three furniture patterns, and a bunch of ignored lockpicks and civilian clothing.

danno8 · May 2017

Gargath wrote: »

Really , what's wrong with "generating new gold into the game economy"? If you grind for gold at npcs isn't this generating new gold out of nowhere? Or when you grind day by day for those most expensive sets and sell many of them to other players, don't you put a lot of gold into game economy? From my point of view you get the sets and sell them on the same way like I get the loot from thievery and sell. We both put some time into out activities and rely on rng before we sell. The difference is that you can sell unlimited amount of items while my sales are limited and less profitable. Either way we both generate profit on items we get out of nowhere.
Also, when grinding I can get hundreds of CP160 gears that each costs 50-78 g and there is no limit of selling them to npcs. I can even play whole day and sell thousand of those gears to npc merchants, but can sell only 140 stolen items. Where is logic in this?

So here is the deal...

Thieving and fencing green+ items and ignoring the white items is the fastest way to make new money in the game (once you have the passives for doing so). I installed an addon that tracks your gold/hour and thieving was actually much better than grinding public dungeons like Old Orsinium for example even after selling all the stuff I looted.

For that reason it needs a limit, otherwise other forms of obtaining new gold would become pointless. Or they have to nerf the value if they made it limitless. I prefer it to be a high value activity with a limit personally.

Note that I said "new" gold. Finding a set and selling it at a guild trader does not create new gold, it simply transfers gold from one player to another. There is a difference. One causes inflation, the other does not.

Now if you want some advice on how to maximize your gold/hour while thieving here is a couple points:

-If you have the Blade of Woe you can effectively double dip the pockets of your victims by stealing, killing and looting all in one quick second.

-the quickest gold/hour I have found involves tossing all your while stuff, and keeping anything green and higher. This will generate the most gold/hour, although not the most gold/day. So if you want more gold per day go for blue and higher, but be prepared for this to take much, much longer and thus begging the question of just grinding a dungeon instead.

Apherius · May 2017

AlnilamE wrote: »

...the limit is per character. :-P

yeah but the achivement for selling 1M of stolen item , is also character bound .
stole item is no the " best way " to make money , this still a way to make money ... but not the best , so... when i stole item , it's not for " gain money " but for " try to get the achievement " .

KeiruNicrom · May 2017

Drop the common items. Sell only green or greater quality

Reclaire · May 2017

The palace in Orsinium is great for looting! Empty rooms, many containers. Do a couple run throughs there and easily make 15-20K a day

Nestor · May 2017

Everyone is over looking the obvious way to do this. Roll Alts, and have them be your Theft Mules.

Rouven · May 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Everyone is over looking the obvious way to do this. Roll Alts, and have them be your Theft Mules.

It was mentioned that the limit is per character, is that what you mean?

Nestor · May 2017

Rouven wrote: »

It was mentioned that the limit is per character, is that what you mean?

What I mean is, instead of asking ZOS to recode the game, just use the game to get what you want. Roll a bunch of Alts, park them in Daggerfall near the ships and farm the stolen loot. Or better, Orsinium if you have access to that place. The 3 skill points you get from the get go are all you need for Legerdemain. Log through the alts, raid the ships, fence or launder the loot. Gold is minted.

No need to be all picky about the Whites either. It is all about production, 10 to 15 minutes on each Alt and you max their allocation for the day, log to the next one. How much gold do you want? That is how many Alts you do this with.

Far faster and more efficient and more gold than just looking for Greens or Blues, which can take an hour or two to fill up 140 bag slots with those.

Rouven · May 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

It was mentioned that the limit is per character, is that what you mean?

What I mean is, instead of asking ZOS to recode the game, just use the game to get what you want. Roll a bunch of Alts, park them in Daggerfall near the ships and farm the stolen loot. The 3 skill points you get from the get go are all you need for Legerdemain. Log through the alts, raid the ships, fence or launder the loot. Gold is minted.

No need to be all picky about the Whites either. It is all about production, 10 to 15 minutes on each Alt and you max their allocation for the day, log to the next one. How much gold do you want? That is how many Alts you do this with.

Far faster and more efficient and more gold than just looking for Greens or Blues, which can take an hour or two to fill up 140 bag slots with those.

Ah ok. I guess.

I'm really only doing it for a change of pace and the achievements.

Nestor · May 2017

Rouven wrote: »

Ah ok. I guess.

I'm really only doing it for a change of pace and the achievements.

The Thieves Achievements for Fencing in each City can be done in about a week if you focus on it.

The only one that is a bear is the 1,000,000 Gold one, but you know what, there are other Achievements out there that are more tedious and grindy. Besides, it should be an Achievement to get an Achievement.

Jacozilla · May 2017

If you steal on only 1 char a day, then yes - I'd agree the limit should be increased. Although to be fair, OPs complaint re: the item count increasing too small an increment per point is somewhat diluted by fact that ZOS front loaded the benefits heavily into the 1st point (which is a good thing for starting out thieves)

if you steal on multiple characters though, the limit is pretty generous. So generous even playing all day, with 8-12 characters, it would be a challenge to use up your daily limit x8-12 characters, day in, day out, every day consistently.

Bump into the limit now and then, sure. Able to hit it on some occasions, sure. But consistently every day if you played many alts? Think that's where the limit becomes a non issue because just 1 point is enough to front load the amount and not have enough hours playable to hit it if you have enough chars.

So the question is - does ZOS not increase the limit further because they balance around avg player using 3.9 characters or whatever average their data shows? Or should ZOS balance this limit around 1 single character usage only, in which case it would be massively overkill for anyone using 2+ chars?

Acrolas · May 2017

It's a logical limitation if you understand that a fence is not only an individual who buys, but also one who sells. Receiving 140 items from 100 people is 14,000 items per day you have to store until you can resell them on a legal market - all the while not garnering suspicion.

Just because you never see the other side doesn't mean it shouldn't factor into world design.

Jacozilla · May 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

It's a logical limitation if you understand that a fence is not only an individual who buys, but also one who sells. Receiving 140 items from 100 people is 14,000 items per day you have to store until you can resell them on a legal market - all the while not garnering suspicion.

Just because you never see the other side doesn't mean it shouldn't factor into world design.

I agree with the logic as applicable to real life, but it's not applicable in this case - because of the simple reason that massive inventory apparently is not an issue in ESO-land.

Whatever alternate universe mechanics allows normal vendors to buy order of magnitude larger quantity of items, store them, re-sell, etc on a daily basis would allow for fenced items as well.

If any random general merchant standing on a corner, walking up and down the roads of Tamriel, or in front of modest tent shop can receive, store, and process 10-100x more items daily than fenced items, then the same mysterious force allows fences to do the same.

If it makes sense to limit fences due to this real world logic, then all other merchants of tamriel would not make much sense. It's far easier to assume both the fences and regular merchants have the same uber-bag of holding we adventurer characters do to store our 99 suits of armor + 119 battle axes when out delving, stealing and slaying.

*and a mysterious massive population that has enormous appetite for buying second hand, white items.

theher0not · May 2017

Skayaq wrote: »

Here's a hint: don't fence white items.

I don't, and I don't think most smart people do it either. I'd love to see an increased fence limit, even if it was just to 150. That would mean I could probably do one more TG quest before reaching my limit, or at least sell everything from my last without wasting the next day's limit.

ScytheNL · May 2017

Danksta wrote: »

It should be obvious why there's a limit on stolen goods you can sell.

Selling goods to NPCs=Gold appearing out of thin air

Killing mobs is also generating gold out of thin air, but there is no limit on that, is there? Have you seen the video's of people in full prosperous gear farming Imperial mobs? This guy claimed 20K per hour and that has no limit.

newtinmpls · May 2017

danno8 wrote: »

Note that I said "new" gold. Finding a set and selling it at a guild trader does not create new gold, it simply transfers gold from one player to another. There is a difference. One causes inflation, the other does not.

I'm really glad you made this point.

Gargath · May 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Note that I said "new" gold. Finding a set and selling it at a guild trader does not create new gold, it simply transfers gold from one player to another. There is a difference. One causes inflation, the other does not.

I'm really glad you made this point.

So maybe it wasn't a good example. But the one above with grinding mobs for gold in full prosperous gears on all 8 characters 12 hours a day, I wonder how do you find this income to game, does it cause inflation or not?
Should it be comparable with stealing and selling? It seems grinding for gold is much more profitable than stealing, isn't it?
Without any limits and loot is much larger from killing multiple targets in few seconds, the overall amount depends on amount of time we wish to put into grinding, and loot (besides of gold) is sold to merchants having limitless amount of gold.
Imho talking about inflation in game like this, when npc merchants have no limits of gold and all game activities gives new gold to market, is purely academic.

danno8 · May 2017

ScytheNL wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

It should be obvious why there's a limit on stolen goods you can sell.

Selling goods to NPCs=Gold appearing out of thin air

Killing mobs is also generating gold out of thin air, but there is no limit on that, is there? Have you seen the video's of people in full prosperous gear farming Imperial mobs? This guy claimed 20K per hour and that has no limit.

Lol, I just saw Alcast video of that. He got 35k in half an hour.

Imperial mobs gonna get nerfed soon, lol.

Gargath · May 2017

Indeed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCPi3QKpe0M

Comparing this with the profits from thievery, being a thief is a short time pleasure due to the limits.

Jayman1000 · May 2017

Gargath wrote: »

And so far I can earn about 10-12k gold per day from selling these 140 items. When trading items I can earn 10x more in few hours.

You can make 100K-120K every few hours trading? Wow, that's pretty awesome. I wish I was just 10% as awesome as you at trading; I'd be rich Oo A difference between trading and fencing is that with trading it requires a lot more skill and knowledge (at least if you have to earn like you do), while fencing requires almost no skill.

But really I don't think we need higher limit on fencing; it already gives pretty good income quite easily, but not only that it's money created from basically nothing: would risk to add too much to economy inflation if there were no limit. Also you could try not selling white items, you'll be able to just about double the daily income. Also you get some nice legerdemain xp if you're pickpocketing.

Gargath · May 2017

Jayman1000 wrote: »

But really I don't think we need higher limit on fencing; it already gives pretty good income quite easily, but not only that it's money created from basically nothing: would risk to add too much to economy inflation if there were no limit. Also you could try not selling white items, you'll be able to just about double the daily income. Also you get some nice legerdemain xp if you're pickpocketing.

Then again a question, what about the economy inflation if grinding gold in prosperous gears eg in delve or public dungeon - it requires even less skills than stealing, just a lot of time and good spot.
Why it's not restricted in any way like fencing, the money is created basically from nothing.
Each sold cp160 basic item can bring 78g which is something between white and green fencing item.
With inventory of 200 I can sell 200 items to any merchant for 78 gold gaining 15,6 k from nothing. The items are lost, while I gain gold. There is no logic in fencing restriction.

PS. my legerdemain is maxed, I have spent points in all legerdemain passives and have special Khajiit build in 2 sets designed for stealing. I'm talking about real thievery as one of main activities, when you already unlocked all skills and passives and prepared yourself for real robberies. I'm no longer interested in gaining XP...

sentientomega · May 2017

Perhaps they could double the fencing/laundering limit for subs...

In any case, laundering whites you know are useful for the Covetous Countess quest required items as good idea, and only sell the other whites you do have if it's a slow day for you. Otherwise, greens, blues, purples, just stick to them. Also steal other cheap launderables, to help max your legerdemain.

Evergnar · May 2017

I personally hate limits of any kind so won't argue that the limit should be raised but creating alts and/or getting a second account just for thieving works.