Vigor Nerf

NyassaV · May 2017

I understand that Vigor is a very powerful AoE heal but most people could care less about that as many use it as a self heal. Increasing the cost is just overkill, many would prefer you simply lessen the amount of AoE healing done. If you are going to nerf Vigor, you need to give all stamina classes a skill that is like crit-surge for the sorc. The siphoning attacks changes are OK in this manner BUT they do not heal enough to be on par with crit-surge. Repetence just got gutted and needs to be reverted to it's older state if this vigor nerf goes live. Stamina nightblades often use vigor in PvE (And PvP settings) as it is a more potent heal overtime on yourself. My suggestion would be to lessing the AoE healing done of the Resolving vigor morph, while still retaining it's cost on live. The AoE healing morph of Vigor would cost more, but do more healing to those around you, have a larger radius, and probably cost slightly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert

LiquidPony · May 2017

Hollery wrote: »

I understand that Vigor is a very powerful AoE heal but most people could care less about that as many use it as a self heal. Increasing the cost is just overkill, many would prefer you simply lessen the amount of AoE healing done. If you are going to nerf Vigor, you need to give all stamina classes a skill that is like crit-surge for the sorc. The siphoning attacks changes are OK in this manner BUT they do not heal enough to be on par with crit-surge. Repetence just got gutted and needs to be reverted to it's older state if this vigor nerf goes live. Stamina nightblades often use vigor in PvE (And PvP settings) as it is a more potent heal overtime on yourself. My suggestion would be to lessing the AoE healing done of the Resolving vigor morph, while still retaining it's cost on live. The AoE healing morph of Vigor would cost more, but do more healing to those around you, have a larger radius, and probably cost slightly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert

I would just make Resolving Vigor a self-heal only, and Echoing Vigor the AoE heal. Adjust the costs and tooltip values accordingly.

NyassaV · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

I understand that Vigor is a very powerful AoE heal but most people could care less about that as many use it as a self heal. Increasing the cost is just overkill, many would prefer you simply lessen the amount of AoE healing done. If you are going to nerf Vigor, you need to give all stamina classes a skill that is like crit-surge for the sorc. The siphoning attacks changes are OK in this manner BUT they do not heal enough to be on par with crit-surge. Repetence just got gutted and needs to be reverted to it's older state if this vigor nerf goes live. Stamina nightblades often use vigor in PvE (And PvP settings) as it is a more potent heal overtime on yourself. My suggestion would be to lessing the AoE healing done of the Resolving vigor morph, while still retaining it's cost on live. The AoE healing morph of Vigor would cost more, but do more healing to those around you, have a larger radius, and probably cost slightly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert

I would just make Resolving Vigor a self-heal only, and Echoing Vigor the AoE heal. Adjust the costs and tooltip values accordingly.

^ This guy is on point @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Ylikollikas · May 2017

I agree on everything else here, except the resolving vigor morph should have no AoE healing at all; only self heal, if they revert the cost of that morph back to the live values.

Subversus · May 2017

The way this should work would be to reduce the aoe healing of the vigor morph and increase the cost of the yellow morph that's used in pve.

Nobody uses vigor in pvp for the aoe heals anyway (except for the ones that used to submit, videos to lefty Lucy

)...

Why didn't they also increase the cost of shields in the same manner??

Druid40 · May 2017

I like those ideas.

NyassaV · May 2017

Subversus wrote: »

The way this should work would be to reduce the aoe healing of the vigor morph and increase the cost of the yellow morph that's used in pve.

Nobody uses vigor in pvp for the aoe heals anyway (except for the ones that used to submit, videos to lefty Lucy )...

Why didn't they also increase the cost of shields in the same manner??

I very much so agree with this. If they are going to increase Vigor costs then they should increase Magicka shield costs too

flguy147ub17_ESO · May 2017

Some of the issue i think is Vigor with Rally which most stamina players run. That is a very strong combo.

SodanTok · May 2017

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

t3hdubzy · May 2017

Ive saved many a friend with vigor in pve and pvp. But i couls live without the aoe to save my own skin.

NyassaV · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

If this is the case then something needs to help compensate for it.

Subversus · May 2017

@sodantokb16_ESO wrong with vigor? Excuse me? What's wrong with vigor and rally compared to what magicka has? I'm sorry but stacking vigor and rally isn't the same as stacking harness and healing ward (not even mentioning the sorc shield because it gets rediculous). Like medium armor builds are already squishy enough with both and you have the nerve to say the combo is broken? Lmfao *** outta here that's the funniest I've read all day

LiquidPony · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

@sodantokb16_ESO

What you're basically saying is that ZOS lied in the PTS v3.0.0 patch notes, then:

Vigor was too cheap for an area of effect healing ability, so we’ve increased its cost so there is more of an impact to keeping the heal over time buff active.

Vigor's ticks are pretty small even when they crit.

NyassaV · May 2017

Another option could be to increase the amount of damage mitigation that medium armor provides. This would help reinforce the suitability of stamina builds.

t3hdubzy · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

@sodantokb16_ESO

What you're basically saying is that ZOS lied in the PTS v3.0.0 patch notes, then:

Vigor was too cheap for an area of effect healing ability, so we’ve increased its cost so there is more of an impact to keeping the heal over time buff active.

Vigor's ticks are pretty small even when they crit.

Id say that vigor is pretty small until you are at 40k plus stamina, and pump. A bunch into bessed and recovery, with theif. Then they are downright nasty. But how many people are actually doing that?

NyassaV · May 2017

t3hdubzy wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

@sodantokb16_ESO

What you're basically saying is that ZOS lied in the PTS v3.0.0 patch notes, then:

Vigor was too cheap for an area of effect healing ability, so we’ve increased its cost so there is more of an impact to keeping the heal over time buff active.

Vigor's ticks are pretty small even when they crit.

Id say that vigor is pretty small until you are at 40k plus stamina, and pump. A bunch into bessed and recovery, with theif. Then they are downright nasty. But how many people are actually doing that?

Very few... Sometimes I'll put 10 points into blessed for that extra buff but sometimes that isn't even enough

HugeMuffin · May 2017

Hollery wrote: »

Another option could be to increase the amount of damage mitigation that medium armor provides. This would help reinforce the suitability of stamina builds.

Building something that's like impen into MA passives would help flush out some of the heavy armor PVP builds.

Durham · May 2017

No reason to increase the cost of vigor. ...after buffing defile, increasing stam cost (nerf)... changes in healing (nerf) .
The major mending (nerf)

Right now ...
VIGOR costs 50% more this to much period...
VIGOR heals for less cham point change
VIGOR heals for less because of major mending nerf
VIGOR heals for less because defile is more potent

NyassaV · May 2017

Durham wrote: »

No reason to increase the cost of vigor. ...after buffing defile, increasing stam cost (nerf)... changes in healing (nerf) .
The major mending (nerf)

Right now ...
VIGOR costs 50% more this to much period...
VIGOR heals for less cham point change
VIGOR heals for less because of major mending nerf
VIGOR heals for less because defile is more potent

This is true... I wasn't even thinking of the PvP when I wrote this thread. Defile has gotten a helluva lot more potent and increasing the cost would almost be like throwing this in the trash

SodanTok · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

@sodantokb16_ESO

What you're basically saying is that ZOS lied in the PTS v3.0.0 patch notes, then:

Vigor was too cheap for an area of effect healing ability, so we’ve increased its cost so there is more of an impact to keeping the heal over time buff active.

Vigor's ticks are pretty small even when they crit.

They didn't lie. It was too cheap for AoE HoT. It would be still too cheap for single target AoE.

You can all complain whatever you want. About shields or smth, but dont tell me it was not god damn cheap skill that you could run always forever. Complain about shields if thats what your problem is with, not about deserved nerf.

Durham · May 2017

Im not saying it was not deserving a nerf ..... when you make adjustments 10 to 20% is a good starting place .....

Stam received stacking nerfs that's my issue here ... people are only looking at the skill itself .... but it was nerfed hard because of stacking... Stam DK had 9 stacking nerfs... what we have here are so many changes and nerfs have been stacked and it's pretty bad......

NyassaV · May 2017

Haven't even mentioned the Warden's Netch being free while Siphoning gets burried. I want to trust you ZoS, I want to trust you when you say it's not P2W! But this doesn't help! @ZOS_RichLambert

Sanctum74 · May 2017

It's supposed to be a heal, but because its been so cheap people use it as a buff with rally and shuffle and becomes very over powered when combined. As a templar i have a complete skill line dedicated to healing and i cant even get close to the heals vigor gives so yeah its about time they do something, but they should have lowered the tooltip value also.

NyassaV · May 2017

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It's supposed to be a heal, but because its been so cheap people use it as a buff with rally and shuffle and becomes very over powered when combined. As a templar i have a complete skill line dedicated to healing and i cant even get close to the heals vigor gives so yeah its about time they do something, but they should have lowered the tooltip value also.

In the patch notes they stated the nerf was because it was an AoE heal. Has nothing to do with stacking. Sorcs shield stack all the time anyways and shields have barely been touched so obviously stacking isn't an issue to ZoS

LiquidPony · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

@sodantokb16_ESO

What you're basically saying is that ZOS lied in the PTS v3.0.0 patch notes, then:

Vigor was too cheap for an area of effect healing ability, so we’ve increased its cost so there is more of an impact to keeping the heal over time buff active.

Vigor's ticks are pretty small even when they crit.

They didn't lie. It was too cheap for AoE HoT. It would be still too cheap for single target AoE.

You can all complain whatever you want. About shields or smth, but dont tell me it was not god damn cheap skill that you could run always forever. Complain about shields if thats what your problem is with, not about deserved nerf.

@sodantokb16_ESO I didn't say anything about shields, keep your conversations straight.

And what, exactly, is a "single-target AoE?"

You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Minno · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was too cheap as selfheal. ZoS knew it, many players knew it. Changing to selfheal only and reverting the cost increase does not change anything that was wrong with it.

That and it was powerful given stamina was never intended to have a self heal. But given the changes over the years, they needed something though many players were using that heal to bypass situations where the skill wasnt intended to do (it's an hot yet itwas used to single heal the player back to full, especially given the way heavy armor boosted the heal.)

Overall it was a change that was coming. Be lucky they didn't listen to us mag class tryhards otherwise you wouldn't even have it lol.

Durham · May 2017

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It's supposed to be a heal, but because its been so cheap people use it as a buff with rally and shuffle and becomes very over powered when combined. As a templar i have a complete skill line dedicated to healing and i cant even get close to the heals vigor gives so yeah its about time they do something, but they should have lowered the tooltip value

No no no no no
With out major mending vigor is nothing like templar heals or resto STAFF..... what are you talking about... this ability has been nerfed hard ...

VIGOR on a nightblade is crap..

VIGOR has increased 50% that is huge !!!!!!! No longer cheap...
15 % less healing will because of champ changes....
Much much less access to major mending ......
Like I said defile is much stonger....

My vigor is weak now

Rohamad_Ali · May 2017

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't vigor mostly really good on certain classes like Templar and DK before the major mending nerf ? Changing those classes and nerfing vigor a really necessary idea ?

HugeMuffin · May 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't vigor mostly really good on certain classes like Templar and DK before the major mending nerf ? Changing those classes and nerfing vigor a really necessary idea ?

Vigor was also essential to some stamblades as their primary heals. Nerfing vigor also nerfed NB's while missing sorcs because stam sorcs had surge heals.

Never forget Wrobel's Law.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2017

tinbromide wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't vigor mostly really good on certain classes like Templar and DK before the major mending nerf ? Changing those classes and nerfing vigor a really necessary idea ?

Vigor was also essential to some stamblades as their primary heals. Nerfing vigor also nerfed NB's while missing sorcs because stam sorcs had surge heals.

Never forget Wrobel's Law.

Especially for stamblades not locked into 2 handed builds .

DisgracefulMind · May 2017

All they did was increase the cost. Now I get that the sustain changes are hitting everyone hard, but vigor literally costs nothing on live as it is currently.