Argonians...it bothers me

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2017

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

They are magically engineered by trees... I recall some mention that they might actually be tree people who just look like lizards. Hell, one lore book talks about how they are in fact cold blooded, and yet aren't bothered by the cold regardless of that fact.

Oh yeah, and IIRC they can give live birth if needed.

... In short, the argonians can do pretty much anything the Hist thought would make them better able to serve them.

I really don't think it is that simple. It is my view that individual argonian souls represent a single thread of fabric in the quilt that is the Hist-tree oversoul. The reason the trees are of such great importance to the Argonians is that the represent all their future, all their knowledge, all their past, and all their deceased family. Argonians ARE the Hist, at least they are the element of the Hist that operates in the physical world of Nirn. That is how I view them. Because of this they take many strange forms, breathe underwater, are generally immune to disease and poison (or resistant depending on which game you're playing), and have features that range from fish like to crocodilian to even avian or mammalian in quality.

I'd like to add that more than any other class I think Warden suits them as a race (even more than Bosmer).

Edit: I just thought of another way to think of this or picture this. Argonians are a lot like the Borg from Star Trek in the sense that they are all tapped in to one source, the Hist. The shared mind is the Hist. The individuals are seen as less relevant, to some extent.

Shgon_Dunstan · April 2017

mandrakethebard_ESO wrote: »

Why do Argonians have breasts? It's an evolutionary adaption to sharing a planet with multiple mammalian sentient species.

Think about it. You're a sentient species that is forced to interact with multiple other sentients, all of whom are mammals. That means that the females of all of those other species have breasts (teats, if you prefer). If you're the only sentient species whose females don't possess that characteristic it will affect the way the other species deal with you. Therefore, Argonian females who better conform to the body proportions expected by the mammals will enjoy better treatment and less unconscious hostility from the mammals. This introduces a selection pressure that favors Argonian females with enlarged chests. Over time evolution will gradually favor larger and larger chests on Argonian females.

So the answer to your question is that the breasts on Argonian females aren't breasts at all... they're a cosmetic feature only, one that is the result of natural selection.

EDIT: BTW, I just skimmed that video that was posted a few responses back and it looks like that guy also brought up a version of my basic hypothesis. For the record (1) I've never seen that video before and (2) I have promulgated this hypothesis ever since the whole "why do Argonians have breasts" question was first brought up. Oblivion, for all I know that guy read one of my old posts, though I find that notion unlikely. It just seems like a logical hypothesis that anyone could think up to me.

Again. Argonians didn't really "evolve". They were made by the Hist.

... In fact, did anything in TES "evolve"? It seems a pretty solidly creationist setting. Hell, it has exactly one normal-ish planet. That being Nirn.

starkerealm · April 2017

Altercator wrote: »

Stay moist.

._.

o_o

NO! STOP THAT!

Grymmoire · April 2017

k9mouse wrote: »

If I remember right in a lore book, I think Argonians can change sex if needed...

That could come to quite a shock to anyone drooling over The Lusty Argonian Maid; "Come over here and sit upon my lap you charming bit of feminine delight." As she seats herself, he runs his hand up her leg and suddenly ....opps, erm, !!!"

Shgon_Dunstan · April 2017

Grymmoire wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

If I remember right in a lore book, I think Argonians can change sex if needed...

That could come to quite a shock to anyone drooling over The Lusty Argonian Maid; "Come over here and sit upon my lap you charming bit of feminine delight." As she seats herself, he runs his hand up her leg and suddenly ....opps, erm, !!!"

... You forget the guy who wrote that book.

If he knew that detail, it would have like three sequels based solely on playing around with it... Hell, maybe it's why he had it star an argonian in the first place.

Knootewoot · April 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

It doesn't make much sense lorewise for such diverse races to share the same bodyshape and animations. And at least in Morrowind (idk about Daggerfall and Arena) Khajiits and Argonians used to be more different from the other races (eg. no breasts on females), which i actually prefer to the uniform races of newer Elder Scrolls games.

It is just less work for the developers to use the same model for all races, which is the main (only?) reason, why the races ended up like they are now. Not much lore behind it.

Wat.

That's from the vanilla game, unmodded. Those are clearly breasts.

My God we have come a long way

I do think the models looked better in Morrowind. Not graphic or polygon wise, but the details. The legs of the beast races differ from normal human. The catlegs look like catlegs. From Oblivion up to ESO they just have normal human legs. I liked that Argonians and Khajit had different leg models and they walked funny to.

Enslaved · April 2017

As if we don't have mammals hatching from eggs irl. As if we don't have reptiles being born alive and not hatched from eggs irl. As if on magicka infested Nirn anything could be questioned, creation wise.

Jitterbug · April 2017

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

I raise the spine of confusion.

I believe it is erect

Giggedy

Knootewoot · April 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

As if we don't have mammals hatching from eggs irl. As if we don't have reptiles being born alive and not hatched from eggs irl. As if on magicka infested Nirn anything could be questioned, creation wise.

Agree, it just depends how evolution took place. But also TES is high fantasy. Lizard folk with bewbs people find odd but seem content with deadric gods, magical fireballs, armor sets that fight for you, horses that magically appear under your ars, foods giving a buff and teleportation devices.

But evolution wise I don't think it is weird.

notimetocare · April 2017

UESP.net anwsers everything

Note: Argonian can have live births

Saturnana · April 2017

I love these 'lets try to find a good explanation for fantasy lore, because SCIENCE!'-threads.

Runschei · April 2017

I'm eating my breakfast and suddenly I don't want my glass of milk...

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2017

Runschei wrote: »

I'm eating my breakfast and suddenly I don't want my glass of milk...

Who milked the argonian?

Shivvies · April 2017

I'd have really loved it if Argonians and Khajiit had one more join on their hind legs and their postures were different - like tha kitten lookin more like they're about to go on all fours and the lizards looking more haunched down and propping themselves up with their tails.

I'd also loved running animation for Argonians had them lean forward with tail up at about the spine curvature and drawing an S to balance behind while the Khajiit go on all fours (maybe holding weapons in mouth even).

And yeah, even though I'm fine with breasts on Argonians for fantasy world purposes, it would have been nice to limit body sizes, girth and maybe even "body accessories" to sexes like the male Argonians having more of crown/flap like ectensions on the back of their head and their spine...

Cheers...

Mitrenga · April 2017

There is a guild in EU named "Tail Collectors" that has members who hate Argonians. Guild's purpose is to remove the Argonians from their very existence. You are welcome any time!

By the way, it is not racism against Argonians. We merely trying to help them not to become slaves.

Cadbury · April 2017

lnsane wrote: »

I love these 'lets try to find a good explanation for fantasy lore, because SCIENCE!'-threads.

Not as funny or disturbing as discussing lore on FFXIV. Trust and believe that. They have Tumblr blogs to back up their "evidence"

theher0not · April 2017

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

Grymmoire wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

If I remember right in a lore book, I think Argonians can change sex if needed...

That could come to quite a shock to anyone drooling over The Lusty Argonian Maid; "Come over here and sit upon my lap you charming bit of feminine delight." As she seats herself, he runs his hand up her leg and suddenly ....opps, erm, !!!"

... You forget the guy who wrote that book.

If he knew that detail, it would have like three sequels based solely on playing around with it... Hell, maybe it's why he had it star an argonian in the first place.

That would explain why she is so good at polishing spears...

Bringer · April 2017

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

It doesn't make much sense lorewise for such diverse races to share the same bodyshape and animations. And at least in Morrowind (idk about Daggerfall and Arena) Khajiits and Argonians used to be more different from the other races (eg. no breasts on females), which i actually prefer to the uniform races of newer Elder Scrolls games.

It is just less work for the developers to use the same model for all races, which is the main (only?) reason, why the races ended up like they are now. Not much lore behind it.

Wat.

That's from the vanilla game, unmodded. Those are clearly breasts.

Are you sure about this? I remember one or (possibly) both beast races lacking them in vanilla. My conviction comes mostly from remembering people asking for mods that would add them at the time since people wanted them. Maybe some kind of sneaky modification to later digital releases? Ive only got morrowind on disk, and i dont know where it is to check.

Also when oblivion added them people complained, like when they changed the various races distinct voices to something more generic and similar.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2017

Mitrenga wrote: »

There is a guild in EU named "Tail Collectors" that has members who hate Argonians. Guild's purpose is to remove the Argonians from their very existence. You are welcome any time!

By the way, it is not racism against Argonians. We merely trying to help them not to become slaves.

Someone should make a guild called eartpoint collectors... for elf hunting.

Saturnana · April 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

lnsane wrote: »

I love these 'lets try to find a good explanation for fantasy lore, because SCIENCE!'-threads.

Not as funny or disturbing as discussing lore on FFXIV. Trust and believe that. They have Tumblr blogs to back up their "evidence"

I'll take your word for it. xD

Marabornwingrion · April 2017

Mitrenga wrote: »

There is a guild in EU named "Tail Collectors" that has members who hate Argonians. Guild's purpose is to remove the Argonians from their very existence. You are welcome any time!

By the way, it is not racism against Argonians. We merely trying to help them not to become slaves.

What platform?

Mitrenga · April 2017

Astrid_V wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

There is a guild in EU named "Tail Collectors" that has members who hate Argonians. Guild's purpose is to remove the Argonians from their very existence. You are welcome any time!

By the way, it is not racism against Argonians. We merely trying to help them not to become slaves.

What platform?

PC EU.

Aquanova · April 2017

Mammary glands are what bothers You? Well, in real world biology their are 2 egg laying mammals ( the platypus and echidna ) so in a fictional world I can buy that a reptilian humanoid creature can have teets.

Shgon_Dunstan · April 2017

On argonian and khajiit legs. Those were different types of argonians and khajiit in Morrowind then in later games.

I don't see anyone complaining about then not both being human looking like they were in Arena(are khajiit being cat-girl-like as in Daggerfall).

Besides... Out of universe, the whole leg thing is basically the same issue as players wanting two-handed weapons to count as two sets. In Morrowind argonians and khajiit couldn't wear shoes. Causing them to be innately nurfed compared to other races.

WalksonGraves · April 2017

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

On argonian and khajiit legs. Those were different types of argonians and khajiit in Morrowind then in later games.

I don't see anyone complaining about then not both being human looking like they were in Arena(are khajiit being cat-girl-like as in Daggerfall).

Besides... Out of universe, the whole leg thing is basically the same issue as players wanting two-handed weapons to count as two sets. In Morrowind argonians and khajiit couldn't wear shoes. Causing them to be innately nurfed compared to other races.

Not being able to wear the boots of blinding speed in a game with no horses is a deal breaker. Time to stack magic resist and crank up the brightness!

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · April 2017

As long as my Argonian maid is 'lusty', I don't think about it...

DMuehlhausen · April 2017

Galwylin wrote: »

I'm pretty sure breast are the sole defining female characteristic. Just put that in your mind and it all makes perfect sense.

Actually Breasts are one of the least female defining traits. All Mammals have "breasts" and "teets". What really only seperates female from male is the ability to have children.

Rawst · April 2017

I enjoy this thread more than I probably should.

...Can someone pls name the lorebook which discusses the argonians-are-evolved-trees topic?

Kodrac · April 2017

They say the hist weeps with happiness when an Argonian hatches. How can a tree weep?

- What nonsense, everyone knows the hist isn't a tree.

Oh, maybe it's a giant Argonian dung pile! Now who's the silly one?

Banana · April 2017

Come on people what about fleabags. Why do they only have 2 ? This isnt the real world might be an answer.