Update 3.0 Resource Management, the GOOD,THE BAD and the VERY BAD, Gill's Video

  • Marabornwingrion
    Marabornwingrion
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    ZOS, hire this guy already, he's smarter than most of you.
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Bumping this thread.

    Gilliam's video was very informative.
    The devs need to watch it.

    I have not yet tested my own characters on the PTS but if what Gilliam shows is actual, then the nerfs to resource management have gone WAY too far.

    It can be mitigated with cost reduction glyphs on jewelry, but the loss in DPS will cause most boss fights in dungeons and trials to be at least double in time to kill, which will still result in resource issues before the end of the fight because it will take so much longer to kill anything. Some of them already start to put people to sleep, we are all going to be snoring before the end.
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Ep1kMalware
    Ep1kMalware
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    Astrid_V wrote: »
    ZOS, hire this guy already, he's smarter than most of you.

    Lol. Not a bad idea tbh. Games should be made by gamers.
  • Jeremiah87
    Jeremiah87
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    I absolutely agree with his analysis. Gilliam knows ESO, it's underlying systems, effects and implications amazingly well. Please @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel listen to his analysis and reasoning. He is by far the most knowledgeable ESO streamer that provides a level headed look from both high-end top 1% players as well as the average Joe ESO player.
  • Publius_Scipio
    Publius_Scipio
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    The thread title should be changed to something that grabs the eye better as you scan down the forum.
  • Sigma957
    Sigma957
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    What do you suggest,, all capital letters? :smile:
    edit, change thread title. lol
    Edited by Sigma957 on April 24, 2017 6:18AM
  • sirtadzio
    sirtadzio
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    This film is an excellent analysis of...everything. Gilliam is amazing and a phenomenal asset to the ESO community.
    PvE Healer
  • Arrchangell
    Arrchangell
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    He really nailed it in this video, hope ZOS watches it.
  • zibnaf
    zibnaf
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    im a returning player(tried at launch but at that time ESO was just to plain horrible)

    i couldnt understand half of the things he was saying becuase well i just started playing again but he seems to know his sh@$ about the game a LOT

    any player that give this kind of analisis of a patch should be listenned to by the DEVs imo.
  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    The thing that always surprises me about ESO is how the average player thinks that things like these sustain changes will improve the quality of their experience and level the playing field between them and advanced players. They give no consideration that these changes are most punitive to them - advanced players are going to continue to adapt and succeed because they're invested in it. This won't stop a guild like @Alcast 's from beating vMoL HM or Andy S from crushing vMA, but for those players trying to make the transition from normal to vet dungeons it will make things considerably more difficult to self-sustain in a new and difficult format where you do not have any guaranteed sustain like what you would find in a trials group.

    Similarly, the lessened sustain in PvP is just going to cater to good players that already made smart choices when it came to sustain. I've done a lot of PvP at this point and I realize the threshold of damage I need on builds to kill people quickly. For example, magsorc bursting does not require 4K spell damage - so I've already invested every bit of excessive damage into sustain so that I can shield stack while pugs themselves dry and I can burst them when they aren't able to block. This is just going to make that attrition-based fight shorter.

    Not to mention, with this next update my magsorc will keep 100% uptime on immovability so good luck tossing CC my way. Too many changes that just aren't thought out by ZOS.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • ptthor
    ptthor
    this needs looked at for all classes and builds
    great post thanks for taking the time to put it together
  • Fuxo
    Fuxo
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    Astrid_V wrote: »
    ZOS, hire this guy already, he's smarter than most of you.

    Lol. Not a bad idea tbh. Games should be made by gamers.

    The already have crazmadsci. She is probably behind champion system rework.
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
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    Sorcerer's pretty much been the same for years. Nerf Rush of Agony and Saints&Seducer's
  • ofSunhold
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    @Adenoma wrote: »
    The thing that always surprises me about ESO is how the average player thinks that things like these sustain changes will improve the quality of their experience and level the playing field between them and advanced players.

    If they think that, it might be because ZOS keeps telling them that. "We're raising the floor and lowering the ceiling!" And when everything is harder for them after the amazing floor-raising, they just figure it's because they're scrubs. Must be doing it wrong.

    I did a few dungeons on the PTS with some guildies, trying to figure out just how bad the changes to magplar healers are and whether I want to invest the time to re-gear and re-learn how to heal (answers: bad, and no I don't). Mostly just normal dungeons, with longish-time players dedicated enough to use the PTS, and they sucked for all of us except a class of DD that shall go unnamed here. PUGging dungeons, which is what many players are kind of stuck with when they first try out running dungeons, just got more craptastic by several orders of magnitude.

    Vets running with guildies are going to be bored with longer fights, get different gear, and in a month or two be just fine.

    Level playing field, raised floor, check.

    Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.
  • ofSunhold
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    @Adenoma wrote: »

    Not to mention, with this next update my magsorc will keep 100% uptime on immovability so good luck tossing CC my way.

    You play for AD, right?

    Thanks for the heads up. ;)
    Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.
  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    Yeah, I play AD - although there's this guild that seems to think I'm a traitor because of the one time I rolled a DC. Whoops!

    Are you in BwB?

    Also, you could already keep nearly full CC immunity uptime anyway. It was funny that people ran amberplasm because you have no real need for that stam sustain as is.

    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • ofSunhold
    ofSunhold
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    Adenoma wrote: »
    Yeah, I play AD - although there's this guild that seems to think I'm a traitor because of the one time I rolled a DC. Whoops!

    Are you in BwB?

    Also, you could already keep nearly full CC immunity uptime anyway. It was funny that people ran amberplasm because you have no real need for that stam sustain as is.

    I am a bit, leveling up new versions of old characters for the NA server. I'm sure we'll run into each other eventually. o:)
    Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.
  • Paganini
    Paganini
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    I agree 100% with @Gilliamtherogue and i really hope ZOS will take the time to actually watch this video completely! This is not the "normal-complaining-thing", it's really, really constructive criticism, that's reflecting the opinion of most player testing on PTS currently.
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    ofSunhold wrote: »
    @Adenoma wrote: »
    The thing that always surprises me about ESO is how the average player thinks that things like these sustain changes will improve the quality of their experience and level the playing field between them and advanced players.

    If they think that, it might be because ZOS keeps telling them that. "We're raising the floor and lowering the ceiling!" And when everything is harder for them after the amazing floor-raising, they just figure it's because they're scrubs. Must be doing it wrong.

    I did a few dungeons on the PTS with some guildies, trying to figure out just how bad the changes to magplar healers are and whether I want to invest the time to re-gear and re-learn how to heal (answers: bad, and no I don't). Mostly just normal dungeons, with longish-time players dedicated enough to use the PTS, and they sucked for all of us except a class of DD that shall go unnamed here. PUGging dungeons, which is what many players are kind of stuck with when they first try out running dungeons, just got more craptastic by several orders of magnitude.

    Vets running with guildies are going to be bored with longer fights, get different gear, and in a month or two be just fine.

    Level playing field, raised floor, check.

    I just started doing pve again to get one monster shoulder.... guess ill just take a pass..... lol
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    I watched the full video....twice. Gill nails it completely. This game will become so difficult for many that it will not be worth playing since "playing" will be a long slug fest with Heavy attacks over and over and that's only if you can survive the battles.

    I didn't spend two years and thousands of hours developing my characters on two accounts for ZOS to nerf the living heck out of them. And for what purpose? PVP? Seriously? You want to "balance" PVP then remove the darn Champion Points PERMANENTLY from Cyrodil. Leave PVE alone.

    I've completed all content in this game and still love it as it is. Stop nerfing the game ZOS.
  • bstag
    bstag
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    Ignoring the caltrops being used 3 times in 30 seconds. I like how he show the differences.
  • psychotic13
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    Great video, hopefully some of the changes get reverted. There is hope though people, they've changed things on feedback before
  • Sigma957
    Sigma957
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    It was good in that he showed not only what it was like with BIS gear but also gear that the average person has access too, the BIS stuff really only added 30 second to a nightblade which on live has the best sustain of the classes through the siphon skill line.
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    Anyone else excited to see new natch potes? Im more excited for the uproar

    /getspopcornready
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Minute 58 onwards is what´s most important and 100% what i think about the topic aswell.

    Imo zos does not really understand their own game at a high enough level.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Dyride
    Dyride
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    In general, I dislike some of the homogenization taking place.

    Warden and Nightblade on PTS seem to have something that operates very similar to Sorcerer's Surge (Health return on light/heavy attacks vs critical strikes).
    Derra wrote: »
    Minute 58 onwards is what´s most important and 100% what i think about the topic aswell.

    Imo zos does not really understand their own game at a high enough level.

    Right, so this is why you see 50% of this or that taken away rather than tweaking minute changes.
    V Є H Є M Є И C Є
      Ḍ̼̭͔yride

      Revenge of the Bear

      ØMNI
      Solongandthanksforallthef
      Revenge of the Hist
      Revenge of the Deer


      Remember the Great Burn of of the Blackwater War!


      #FreeArgonia
    1. theivorykitty
      theivorykitty
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      I watched this whole video last night, and I have to say that it really does a great job of explaining the issues that I see in this patch as well. I hope ZOS' @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel look at it.

      The biggest issue I saw playing the test server was that a really excellent player who spends countless hours on ESO like Gilliam are brought down to having to play like they are level 20 or 30. Even with the best weaving and knowledge of the game, combat becomes slow and sluggish as the player has to heavy attack to gain back resources which are drained crazily quickly.

      And what we didn't see in the video is what happens when the player needs to use some of those resources to actually do the fun part of eso combat - the mechanics! How can you dodge-roll or block when you're constantly fighting a losing battle against stamina after 15 - 30 seconds of combat? This makes combat boring, sluggish, and unnecessarily long.

      I watched my husband play on PTS and thought, if he can't do it, there's no way I'm going to be able to do it. And lo and behold, I tried and failed. As a much more casual player I am completely at a loss. I am out of power in no time flat, my enemies are still quite alive because I don't weave like the big guys and I sometimes cast things I shouldn't. I feel like I've lost all the power I've gained playing for years since beta; as if the work I've done to get better (and I have!) amounts to nothing. That's not a feeling you want your players to have.

      And there are a lot of us out there that just aren't ever going to be as good as the elite players! We're getting hurt the most here.

      I need to recreate my main (templar healer) on the PTS and try her out... but I'm sort of afraid to. The version of the game in PTS is just not fun.

      Morrowind is beautiful though - and those new assets, furnishings, etc.. oh man. <3
    2. TheHsN
      TheHsN
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      i dont understand...Just last patch "HS" @ZOS_RichLambert said every where we want new players can play this game too ,like the hardcore players....we want them more into the game.

      -Even he gave an example from himself that older people like me who cant control their hands Bla bla bla... should be able to handle the skill and combat mechanics. This was JUST THE LAST PATCH

      -And now almost they are making playing impossible for new or casual player... what is the very reason that they changed their mind so fast...

      Mr. Rich are u done playing with ESO... thats why u dont care!!!it is impossible to play and have fun???

      in the video Guy is Right..But i think he is playing not as good as he was playing like in live server but at the pts... :):):)

      Plays:
      Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
      Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
      Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
      Magicka Templar - PvE
      Stamina Templar - PvP
      Magicka DK - PvE
      Stamina DK - PvE
    3. Jeremiah87
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      It's pretty much exactly 6 weeks until Morrowind drops. I hope ZOS has given themselves enough time to come up with a good solution and that they won't to force bad changes in because DEADLINES.
    4. Subversus
      Subversus
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      Ashtaris wrote: »
      After watching Gill's video, I really believe he should be the lead combat developer for ZOS instead of some of their current developers. He nailed it.

      Yeh, he comes across as incredibly knowledgeable about the game, and just very intelligent in general, unlike the existing devs, who seem a bit ***.

      Lmfaoooooo
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