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The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 11.2.1 is available.
PvE - Stamina DDs analysis (only existing classes)
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Asmael Yep I got the idea from Xanti, and although on DK it seems like you might not have time to keep 100% of your DoTs up with both the vMA weapons and the heavy attacks, I think on a Sorc and Temp it could easily be doable with some great results. Thing is... On a pure heavy attack build, everyone is at a disadvantage when facing a DK. Which is why I think that its important to mix both the vMA weapons and the heavy attacks on other classes to match the DPS output of a DK. I haven't noticed a DPS decrease on live when weaving full heavies on my Sorc as opposed to just performing the vMA rotation, but the sustain difference is HUGE. I also didn't use an Axe in my tests because it was on another character, nor did I use Selene, but with those things, I really think that the heavy attack + vMA build will output more damage than a standard vMA build. After all Selene would be doing A LOT more damage than any other monster set due to the double chance to proc on heavy attacks, and it procs on Deadly Cloak (not sure but Hurricane also seems to proc it). I really think that it has some big potential.
On a Stamplar, I still think that Jabs is something that should be incorporated into the rotation, just because of that nice cleave damage and a HUGE chance to proc Selene on every tick of the Jab. So my idea was to weave all the DoTs in with heavies and once everything is up and running, heavy attack + Jabs all the things. It could work similar to the Stam Sorc with the vMA weapons, but basically instead of the Rapid Strikes, you Jab. That also allows you to wear Alkosh + Two Fanged + Selene.
For the DK, the heavy attack build is definitely the best option. @OrphanHelgen kinda initiated me to that a while back and while I haven't been able to get it right quite yet, the results are already there.
For the NB... Well... Yeah... If we see a change to Relentless Focus and a modification to Leeching Strikes (so its actually a good ability), then MAYBE, we can get to keep the vMA rotation and just be the only class to use it properly. If not... Well... NBs are just a worse version of the Templar. But I strongly believe that a Relentless Focus change will come sooner or later during PTS which will affect our DPS a lot.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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Also, it seems that Two Hander builds might become more viable, did a small test and it was only 2k dps behind the dualwield setup.
Have you experimented with the use of Carve (Cleave morph) and War Machine on a stamblade using Incap?Edited by Strider_Roshin on April 22, 2017 1:12PM0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeStrider_Roshin wrote: »
only tested on stamdk very quick with the cleave morph that gives minor heroism.
Have to wait till I get my character copies to make detailed tests dw vs 2h. Because templates suck
Main issue still being that 2H weapon only counts as 1 bonus. (would be nice for pve if its 2 but prolly gonna be OP for pvp then) Edited by Alcast on April 22, 2017 1:30PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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elven.were_wolf✭✭✭✭My main is a stamblade. So now my future dreams of getting all trial achievement on my main went down the potty hole. Achievement hunter and secret admirer of Naryu Virian.8 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
only tested on stamdk very quick with the cleave morph that gives minor heroism.
Have to wait till I get my character copies to make detailed tests dw vs 2h. Because templates suck Main issue still being that 2H weapon only counts as 1 bonus. (would be nice for pve if its 2 but prolly gonna be OP for pvp then)
I don't think I'll be too OP in PvP. In PvE I'll be able to use a proc set, a raw damage boosting set(Sunderflame), and then a dungeon specific set (such as War Machine). In PvP however I currently use Bone Pirate, 3 Agility, and a Master 2H. The jewellery plus Master GS gives me 375 Weapon Damage, and 1400 max stamina. I'm sure there are or will be some powerful sets out there that could outdo the Master GS + Agility combination, but I highly doubt it would be by much. It'll primarily be a PvE buff IMO.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
only tested on stamdk very quick with the cleave morph that gives minor heroism.
Have to wait till I get my character copies to make detailed tests dw vs 2h. Because templates suck Main issue still being that 2H weapon only counts as 1 bonus. (would be nice for pve if its 2 but prolly gonna be OP for pvp then)
Use maelstrom 2h with Ravage + Stam return poisons. You'll find your 2k deeps there
Edited by usmcjdking on April 22, 2017 3:38PM0331
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »
only tested on stamdk very quick with the cleave morph that gives minor heroism.
Have to wait till I get my character copies to make detailed tests dw vs 2h. Because templates suck Main issue still being that 2H weapon only counts as 1 bonus. (would be nice for pve if its 2 but prolly gonna be OP for pvp then)
Use maelstrom 2h with Ravage + Stam return poisons. You'll find your 2k deeps there
Minor Fracture poisons.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »This is the type of stuff I love reading, and it helps tremendously.
Great post... thanks for taking the time to write it up!
Now let's see if @Asmael likes the changes you are going to do based on his feedback.
I'm worried a bit of how you are going to use this article. Taking into consideration the aggressive approach you took to balance infinite sustain I'm afraid that your are not going to fix nigthtblades but will continue nerfi..ahem..balancing classes that can still keep their infinite sustain.
Let me tell you - your are not fixing infinite sustain with these nerfs - your are cutting the builds variations with it.
Like keena set for example -it does not have room in the end game anymore, everyone will use proc monster set that brings most dps.
Please fix the problem where it needs to be fixed. Is permanent blocking a problem in PvP? - nerf the block in PvP only. Is heavy armor a problem in PvP? - bring new percentage-penetration potions on the table. There are lots of creative ways to Ballance things around.Edited by Didgerion on April 22, 2017 11:08PM6 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »This is the type of stuff I love reading, and it helps tremendously.
Great post... thanks for taking the time to write it up!
NOW FIX US NIGHTBLADES PRETTY PLEASE!
We DO exist, and we DO want to do end-game content at a competitive level!
Thanks @Asmael for the great post!9 -
Norn✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
only tested on stamdk very quick with the cleave morph that gives minor heroism.
Have to wait till I get my character copies to make detailed tests dw vs 2h. Because templates suck Main issue still being that 2H weapon only counts as 1 bonus. (would be nice for pve if its 2 but prolly gonna be OP for pvp then)
a ghetto setup with 5p tfs front, 5p warmachine backbar should be okay imo
it's not like we need the 5p from warmachine constantly up
flawless front, incap backbar ez pz let's go 2h meta0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
only tested on stamdk very quick with the cleave morph that gives minor heroism.
Have to wait till I get my character copies to make detailed tests dw vs 2h. Because templates suck Main issue still being that 2H weapon only counts as 1 bonus. (would be nice for pve if its 2 but prolly gonna be OP for pvp then)
a ghetto setup with 5p tfs front, 5p warmachine backbar should be okay imo
it's not like we need the 5p from warmachine constantly up
flawless front, incap backbar ez pz let's go 2h meta
With that setup you aren't running a vMA Bow. I'd rather sacrifice the Monster Set than sacrifice the Bow.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I doubt that 2H is every going to beat DW as it is now. The heavy attacks are just so much faster on DW, not to mention the fact that you can get 10% more crit from using 2 daggers (and there ain't no Great-Dagger lol) and well as the option of using 2 different enchantments. Also the increased damage to CC'd enemies and low health enemies just makes it even better. While Carve is good, Rending Slashes is a much stronger DoT as well. Also the possibilty of running Deadly Cloak and of course Steel Tornado is just too much to give up for a 2H. And obviously, there's Rend, aka a DoT that does a metric *** ton of cleave damage AND heals you.
Is the 10% extra damage after performing a fully charged heavy attack on the initial hit of each one of the DoTs you apply worth losing all the DW benefits? No.Edited by Izaki on April 23, 2017 2:08PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »I doubt that 2H is every going to beat DW as it is now. The heavy attacks are just so much faster on DW, not to mention the fact that you can get 10% more crit from using 2 daggers (and there ain't no Great-Dagger lol) and well as the option of using 2 different enchantments. Also the increased damage to CC'd enemies and low health enemies just makes it even better. While Carve is good, Rending Slashes is a much stronger DoT as well. Also the possibilty of running Deadly Cloak and of course Steel Tornado is just too much to give up for a 2H. And obviously, there's Rend, aka a DoT that does a metric *** ton of cleave damage AND heals you.
Is the 10% extra damage after performing a fully charged heavy attack on the initial hit of each one of the DoTs you apply worth losing all the DW benefits? No.
You won't hear an argument from me. I think the 2H may have its place with a stamblade though. With minor heroism active from Carve + Catalyst passive; I can keep Major Slayer up for around 45 seconds a minute. While DW I can only keep Major Slayer up for 33 seconds out of every minute. The personal damage difference probably won't be significant, but it'll mean a decent drop in damage for 2 of your other damage dealers. I think having two 2H stamblades per group will be quite beneficial for the overall DPS in other to keep up Major Slayer for around 36% longer.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't remember that every being a thing in any other elder scrolls game,maybe because they're single player games? Totally differentEdited by Mojmir on April 23, 2017 6:27PM2 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭
I don't remember that every being a thing in any other elder scrolls game,maybe because they're single player games? Totally different
every other elder scrolls game IS single player, and you could not ability spam in them unless you used a console command to give yourself unlimited resources.
how can you remember if you haven't played them?0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't remember that every being a thing in any other elder scrolls game,maybe because they're single player games? Totally different
every other elder scrolls game IS single player, and you could not ability spam in them unless you used a console command to give yourself unlimited resources.
how can you remember if you haven't played them?
The combat system isn't comparable at all. In previous TES games, you had 2 buttons. So essentially you were spamming light and heavy attacks all the time. There was no such thing as "weaving" or animation canceling or anything else at all. "Weaving in weapon attacks" was introduced to the TES world with ESO. You simply can't compare the combat system in the slightest.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't remember that every being a thing in any other elder scrolls game,maybe because they're single player games? Totally different
every other elder scrolls game IS single player, and you could not ability spam in them unless you used a console command to give yourself unlimited resources.
how can you remember if you haven't played them?
I remember that I enchanted four pieces of armor in Skyrim with 25% spell cost reduction and I literally did what you are saying. Same in Oblivion, where I also had 100% damage reflection as well, so I have no idea how you played the games.
Though it really doesn't matter, the more important part of ESO is the "O" part, this is a multiplayer game, you have to have balance when you are playing on a team, and hey have taken literally all the ways we can support each other and watered them down to the he point where we are going to just be running self sustaining build all the time.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 24, 2017 2:15PM3 -
MiniMoggie✭✭"Can I bring a stamina DD into a trial this patch? Can I be competitive?
Out of the existing classes, as long as it's a not a Nightblade, you're pretty much good to go. "
This makes me both sad and mad. I main a stamblade.. I'm not an elite player but I've put many hours into my stamblade and have been rewarded with VO and Velidreth. I often also run with NMG for my trials group because I don't yet have the other one.
Why should I be locked out of content I've paid for because my chosen class is considered 3rd class by the elitists? I've put hours into making my NB work. I have as much right as anyone to be included in a group. Fortunately for me my trials group are not elitists who ban people because of the class they play. We play to have fun and it's a bonus if we finish a vet trial, which we also manage to do even with my 3rd class stamblade in the group. Nobody should be made to feel unwelcome in a game.
NB maybe harder to play but I'm not afraid of trying to make it work. It certainly would help if NB got a little love in the next update.7 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MiniMoggie wrote: »"Can I bring a stamina DD into a trial this patch? Can I be competitive?
Out of the existing classes, as long as it's a not a Nightblade, you're pretty much good to go. "
This makes me both sad and mad. I main a stamblade.. I'm not an elite player but I've put many hours into my stamblade and have been rewarded with VO and Velidreth. I often also run with NMG for my trials group because I don't yet have the other one.
Why should I be locked out of content I've paid for because my chosen class is considered 3rd class by the elitists? I've put hours into making my NB work. I have as much right as anyone to be included in a group. Fortunately for me my trials group are not elitists who ban people because of the class they play. We play to have fun and it's a bonus if we finish a vet trial, which we also manage to do even with my 3rd class stamblade in the group. Nobody should be made to feel unwelcome in a game.
NB maybe harder to play but I'm not afraid of trying to make it work. It certainly would help if NB got a little love in the next update.
While I share your frustration at the lack of class parity, you're asking the wrong question. It isn't as though "elitism" is the reason nightblades consistently underperform the other classes -- that's on ZOS, not other players. If a trials group wants to maximize their chances of completing the trial with a minimum of frustration -- not to mention if they want the more difficult achievements and the rewards that come with them -- it's entirely rational for them not to want to take you and me along, simply because ZOS has made it so that, even at peak performance, you and I cannot offer the group as much as another class can. Don't get mad at other players for playing the cards ZOS dealt them.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.4 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »Hmm. So Stamina is superior this patch, but not in a way that absolutely eclipses Magicka.
Even being a Magicka player, I can live with that.
@EldritchPenguin
I wouldn't say superior.
Perhaps, "not nerfed as hard as magicka" but not superior. You won't see significant changes in the class compositions of leaderboards, apart from the addition of wardens at the templars' expense.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »Hmm. So Stamina is superior this patch, but not in a way that absolutely eclipses Magicka.
Even being a Magicka player, I can live with that.
@EldritchPenguin
I wouldn't say superior.
Perhaps, "not nerfed as hard as magicka" but not superior. You won't see significant changes in the class compositions of leaderboards, apart from the addition of wardens at the templars' expense.
Templars are there for the Jesus Beam. Warden has no execute at all. I doubt it will be at the expense of templars. Most likely at the expense of a few Sorcs. Like we won't see 4-6 Sorcs, more like 3-5 Sorcs and 1-2 Wardens. IMHO.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Glad to know my investment in leveling DKs was not wasted... one day I will be able to bring my Nightblade out of retirement I guess... until then he is spending his days at the Forsaken Stronghold crafting furniture.Playing since beta...0 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Im running 2h/bow on a stamplar in a while now. Heavy attacks weave very nicely into jabs (and reverse slice, tho i only noticed that on pts). the other thing that felt new: stamina goes up when HA-> reverse/killers.
What r your thoughts about Master Bow vs vMA bow? (as in 10%, 20%, 30% better?)
Noobish question: U use Molten Armaments and Weapondmg potion on sDK?0
