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Gilliam the Rogue about Morrowind Patch Notes
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Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭lookstwice wrote: »Let me guess, nothing in that video about the stealth speed stacking changes? I'm guessing not because it sure seems like only a few people are bothered by that. And it almost seems like it's bothering me the most.
For my part, it is not so much I am not bothered by that or don't care - I simply have to prioritize my energy and reaction to the overall massive breath and scope of changes.
Losing vamp + set stealth move speed stack will affect a few, like 2 of my chars. The other changes discussed in this variable affects ALL of my characters and whether you are pro, con, etc about these changes - it affects everyone.
whatever change I can effect, if any at all, I have to focus on the big ticket items first. If ZOS is unwilling to change their 'vision' based on feedback to changes that affect everyone, then they will hardly listen and change to feedback re: niche subset of player changes.
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lookstwice✭✭✭True and I get that. And the stealth changes will affect pretty much all my characters and will affect me much more than combat changes. And I know I'm in the minority here as well.
But the most important issue I see is once the stealth changes go through more than likely they will never be reverted. Unlike the constant up/down that will always be more fluid with combat balance changes. It's basically like taking away my ability to use mounts permanently. Absolutely brutal for me.
It's unfortunate that the changes to sustain are so drastic that all other changes will go un-noticed.1 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭This depth of content is why I love his videos. ESO has hardly any information online about base mechanics (I assume because Zos is constantly overhauling them) but Gillian's videos are full of info.
Thanks for the information and keep up the good work @Gilliamtherogue2 -
Grymmoire✭✭✭✭At approximately 100 minutes in, Gilliam touches upon mob strength\health. Over time and to combat the players' power-creep, ZOS has raised both common and boss health caps; nowhere in the patch notes, do I see where they have committed to addressing the power-creep they have introduced to these mobs.
If our ceiling is to be lowered (with probable unintended consequences of in the interaction of multiple changes), what about mobs, bosses and the almost unkillable (solo at least) world bosses?
And perhaps I am alone in thinking that homogenization of classes via attempts to balance all player levels, classes and skill costs is even desirable in an MMO. Where does diversity end up with systems such as this? IMHO, each class should have high costs for there most powerful attacks and lessor costs with decreasing attack strength.
Heavy attacking and slower combat is simply not fun. Forced grouping is not fun. Grinding for the top gear and weapon drops is not fun. This patch proposes too many changes at once and thus upon analysis of players like Gilliam, is not going to introduce more fun.Edited by Grymmoire on April 24, 2017 2:46AM13 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭One thing not mentioned, and like the stealth stack nerf, bit of niche concern - so no over reactions please. I admit this is a minor, not major, concern.
But with the changes and rebalance to the green CP trees - has anyone else noticed that essentially for many (not all, just saying many builds) there will be no need to put any points into the tree where we formerly had magician/warlord?
Most people will I assume transfer 100 points formerly in magician or warlord into next tree over - into arcanist and tenacity.
My point is ---> we lose the 30 point passive that awards 20% inspiration gain.
Yes, I know - omg whining about crafting inspiration. I am not whining, I just said above it is a minor concern. All I am saying is we lose inspiration for crafters not maxed yet unless we dedicate 30 points to a tree we used to have reason to be in anyways, to one just for the inspiration.
Workaround is obvious - stay with a slightly gimped CP distribution on any char that adventures + crafts, until crafting skills are maxed out to 50 in all categories. But it is a minor change I am positive ZOS did not factor at all. They took away the active CP skills with no thought to how certain passives would also be lost is my .02 cents.3 -
Toomdad✭✭✭Though with the way cp stars are more front loaded to 50 to get most of the benefit we might see more distributions than we did before so it probably won't be bad dumping 30 in that tree still.2
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sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Simple combat mechanic learn to heavy attack. Put points into tenacity and since I know what the cp diminished returns are then it won't change much. U mostly got to relearn ur rotation.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar1 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭Though with the way cp stars are more front loaded to 50 to get most of the benefit we might see more distributions than we did before so it probably won't be bad dumping 30 in that tree still.
In other trees this would totally make sense. But for my craft/adventurer chars that aren't maxed 50 yet- there is zero benefit to any of those front loaded actives.
Again fully admitting this is due to my play style of PVP only with PVP built chars, the majority of my chars stay in pve (I gotta believe this cant be that unique, rolling chars to be PVP chars and leave them in PVP guild/gear?)
So what use do my pve chars have for extra sprinting, break free reduction, etc? Better than nothing I agree - front load one of these, pick up the 30 pt inspiration until I'm done max 50 skill all crafts. But better than nothing and almost no use is a pretty thin line, not a big broad one.
For a mag based char, that is not rolled to be a PVP char, I don't see anyone putting points here except for those that are currently leveling crafting. so it's pay 3k to change between adventure sessions- not a big deal which is why again I labeled this minor, not major - or leave the cp there until all crafting is leveled.
It's a small bone, not a big boulder I'm tossing at ZOS here. I dont' think they really thought through some of this, and while this isn't any kind of proof at all, it is a bit more of overall, aggregate indirect conclusion from the totality of all the tweaks done, that if anything was 'designed by committee' - this massive balance patch surely is it.1 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭i haven't seen all of this one- but of what i saw- seemed like an articulate and well thought out video. will check it out when i get a chance. i just wanted to commend and encourage more people to make videos like this- we need more content creation in this game-its one of the most important ways we can communicate to Zos and with each other.
now that we ve lost deltia, sypher and a few others- hopefully more will step up and in to replace them. i dont know bout others- but i was a eso follower before i became a gamer-. i enjoyed watching it for a few days til i was alike- stuff it- i m getting a copy. its the best way to market and spread this game i feelEdited by MakoFore on April 24, 2017 5:33AM1 -
lunalitetempler✭✭✭✭I've seen it posted about 50 times, still not watching it. Tomorrow I will make a video of my Grandma reaction. May be my cat.0
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f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with almost the entirety of the thoughts and sentiments.
The one thing I disagree with is the idea that the sustain changes will bring the ceiling and floor closer. I think they will separate them further. The reason I think this is that inexperienced players have low dps because they generally poorly maintain DOT's and spam a skill too much. These changes will make DOT timing both more important (a higher percent of dps because there will be less or no spam-able in a good rotation) and also harder to time well (2.2 second heavy attacks to try to fit tightly between DOT reapplications.) DOT maintenance will be both more challenging and more important leading to greater divergence in DPS numbers. Furthermore, having a crap sustain is far more likely to get an inexperienced skill spammer in trouble than an experienced player that understands the relative importance of DOT's to spamables. In the most extreme case, the sorc, I actually think it is likely that the best players will not even have a spam-able on their bar. Sorcs bars are currently not ideal as they are short slots. I think they will actually just drop force pulse altogether in many cases with the new full heavy / DOT meta.
If you wanted to bring the floor to the ceiling while also lowering the ceiling some angles to try might be:
1) Lower the relative dps/cast of DOT's to spamables making their mismanagement less disastrous. They are currently many times the damage per cast of a spamable. They do not need to be quite so dramatically better to be worthwhile.
2) Simplify DOT timings with a single standard short and long durations that are a multiple of each other such as 4 and 8 seconds. This would allow easy front bar back bar set up, and every rotation to be the same greatly decreasing the number of timings to keep track of. It would also make add on skill timers non-mandatory.
3) You might try applying some sort of diminishing returns relating to each additional concurrent DOT such as perhaps 1dot gives you 100% but each additional DOT concurrently active has decreased power. Still worth having but in a diminishing way. This would make more complex builds still advantageous but less dramatically and also remedy the issue of DK's, and now pet Sorcs, simply having more DOT's than templars and NB's.
Anyhow, great vid Gilliam.I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.2 -
Coilbox✭✭✭✭lunalitetempler wrote: »I've seen it posted about 50 times, still not watching it. Tomorrow I will make a video of my Grandma reaction. May be my cat.
It's not even a 'reaction' video about the changes, but a deep and insightful explanation of what is going on. Wether you like the changes or not, i suggest you to watch it cause in any case you will learn a lot. But thats up to you.Edited by Coilbox on April 24, 2017 8:08AMComrade, a word...8 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭He hits on the most important thing, this game has a re-build for balance far to often. They need to do this slowly and see via small changes how it, improves and balances the game. Not the slash and burn every patch they currently do.2 -
lunalitetempler✭✭✭✭lunalitetempler wrote: »I've seen it posted about 50 times, still not watching it. Tomorrow I will make a video of my Grandma reaction. May be my cat.
It's not even a 'reaction' video about the changes, but a deep and insightful explanation of what is going on. Wether you like the changes or not, i suggest you to watch it cause in any case you will learn a lot. But thats up to you.
Not really, I've tested my character on the pts. All is fine for me personally. But if y'all want to freak out go right ahead
FYI, never needed a YouTuber to learn the game. I learned to play it properly from day one. Maybe that's why I have no problems with the patch.Edited by lunalitetempler on April 24, 2017 9:08AM1 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thing that is more than strange when it comes to patch notes is that some skills/passives that were nerfed now scales with level, yet you can unlock them when you are like lvl 42 or something. What is the point of these things then? And some things are even worse, like you unlock them on lvl 50 and they scale with level?! LOL WUT. A fine example of this is Redguard's adrenaline rush. Bad design, I would say.0 -
Coilbox✭✭✭✭Im sure you can still learn a little bit from each one of the comunity. Maybe because you don't know everything. Maybe thats why you have no problems with the patch? Maybe not, who knows.
Ignorance sometimes means happiness
Also, a lot of people is 'freaking out' yes... but there is not any kind of rant, freaking out or hair pulling on this video. Only very valuable knowledge.
Anyway, If you are fine with the result of these changes, damn good for you... i wish i was feeling the same, honestly.Edited by Coilbox on April 24, 2017 9:34AMComrade, a word...4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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I know how to heavy attack, my healer do it all the time to keep magic up since its bad to run low on magic as healer.sneakymitchell wrote: »Simple combat mechanic learn to heavy attack. Put points into tenacity and since I know what the cp diminished returns are then it won't change much. U mostly got to relearn ur rotation.
Heavy attacks however are very slow, in short you loose your spamable, this is not an big deal on an healer but bad for dps
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭lunalitetempler wrote: »lunalitetempler wrote: »I've seen it posted about 50 times, still not watching it. Tomorrow I will make a video of my Grandma reaction. May be my cat.
It's not even a 'reaction' video about the changes, but a deep and insightful explanation of what is going on. Wether you like the changes or not, i suggest you to watch it cause in any case you will learn a lot. But thats up to you.
Not really, I've tested my character on the pts. All is fine for me personally. But if y'all want to freak out go right ahead
FYI, never needed a YouTuber to learn the game. I learned to play it properly from day one. Maybe that's why I have no problems with the patch.
You're like many who keep promoting this false narrative - where's the people freaking out in this thread that you so disingenuously accuse?
The video author was well reasoned and stated specific reasons for his opinions. Whether you agree or not - that's up to you. Distorting his and pretty much all the people replying in this thread agreeing with some or many of his points in reasonable manner doesn't approach anywhere near the "freak out" you claim.
Sounds like you just got triggered. People dare to disagree with your own firm conviction and hence must be freaking out whereas you are the calm reasoned one. Whether you're calm or freaking out - you've certainly blown any credibility when you portray as freaking out people who merely disagree.
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, and good point about heavy attack sorcerer, sorcerer spam-able is weak, shards help some but add to the complexity and take an slot. DoT are strong on the other hand.f047ys3v3n wrote: »I agree with almost the entirety of the thoughts and sentiments.
The one thing I disagree with is the idea that the sustain changes will bring the ceiling and floor closer. I think they will separate them further. The reason I think this is that inexperienced players have low dps because they generally poorly maintain DOT's and spam a skill too much. These changes will make DOT timing both more important (a higher percent of dps because there will be less or no spam-able in a good rotation) and also harder to time well (2.2 second heavy attacks to try to fit tightly between DOT reapplications.) DOT maintenance will be both more challenging and more important leading to greater divergence in DPS numbers. Furthermore, having a crap sustain is far more likely to get an inexperienced skill spammer in trouble than an experienced player that understands the relative importance of DOT's to spamables. In the most extreme case, the sorc, I actually think it is likely that the best players will not even have a spam-able on their bar. Sorcs bars are currently not ideal as they are short slots. I think they will actually just drop force pulse altogether in many cases with the new full heavy / DOT meta.
If you wanted to bring the floor to the ceiling while also lowering the ceiling some angles to try might be:
1) Lower the relative dps/cast of DOT's to spamables making their mismanagement less disastrous. They are currently many times the damage per cast of a spamable. They do not need to be quite so dramatically better to be worthwhile.
2) Simplify DOT timings with a single standard short and long durations that are a multiple of each other such as 4 and 8 seconds. This would allow easy front bar back bar set up, and every rotation to be the same greatly decreasing the number of timings to keep track of. It would also make add on skill timers non-mandatory.
3) You might try applying some sort of diminishing returns relating to each additional concurrent DOT such as perhaps 1dot gives you 100% but each additional DOT concurrently active has decreased power. Still worth having but in a diminishing way. This would make more complex builds still advantageous but less dramatically and also remedy the issue of DK's, and now pet Sorcs, simply having more DOT's than templars and NB's.
Anyhow, great vid Gilliam.
Take an pet sorc, need scamp on both bars, LL, wall of elements, curse,
Inner light is nice, ward on front bar.
mages wraith is also nice, more relevant on this build as you will used it far more for taking out weakened adds.
surge, and dark conversion can be on overload bar if needed.
Front bar: wraith, scamp, ward, curse(LL), inner light
Back bar: LL(curse), scamp, wall, surge or other, inner light or other.
Might even go for an two pet setup for heal. Setup could be easy adjusted for an healer setup who still do serious dps.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0
