Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

People hate change.

Incorrect.

Morrowind is changing one of the fundemental pillars of the game, resource management. The game is practically built off continuous damage. Now that we're not going to do that, people are not only worried about the usual build editing (Which has become a chore) and their also worried about the fact we might not actually be mathematically able to do many of the mechanics, thus widening the gap between the majority of the playerbase, and the few elite, who are themselves dwindling.

Compound it by the fact at least one major streamer is leaving after being directly invited to ZOS and -asked- his opinion on where to take the direction of the game, and either being ignored or taken far too litterally, and people are panicing because none of this screams 'good update'.

And the fact stamina is even taking a bigger hit while magicka stays way ahead.

hassubhai wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

How does one nerf pve, if anything the content becomes more difficult for every player equally.

(1) If you need to ask that question, you don't know squat about the game.

(2) And if you think content becomes more difficult for every player equally, you haven't read the patch notes thoroughly.

I may have missed something or the other in the patch notes yes, as to pve i can still do all the content in the game just the same as before except it may be a bit more difficult and i may need to use a different build. However the game is still balanced and pve content is still very much doable so whats the issue?

Please try a nightblade saptank, thanks

YautjaLanu wrote: »

Everyone needs to adapt and grow and stop complaining because their to comfortable with current their classes.

What's the point of "adapting" if 6 months down the line they decide to gut the hell out of things again.

The direction of the changes isn't the problem.
The intent behind the changes isn't the problem - in fact it is a desiable end-point

The scale and scope of the changes all at once mean that ZoS have absolutely no idea at what specific change worked, and more importantly why it worked, and that means that in 6 months time we'll be going through this again because by then the new meta will have emerged and there will be new "must have" builds..

All The Best

@Roovin i am so freaking tired of this "its like in every other MMO" argument. You know why? Because if you have experience with MMOs you should know that sometimes changes in 1 patch can kill the game, even with the IP much, much more popular than TES.

My main is a Breton Magsorc, and I expect to be fine on my main,

My Magplar alt, however, I consider to be a little weak on sustain. My Stamblade I consider to be extremely weak on sustain. That's right now. That's a real issue with the game right now, and ZOS has decided the utter opposite of that is true and act accordingly.

Elite players may very well have excessive sustain. I would say average players have, depending on class and race, fine-to-weak sustain. Nerfing sustain for average players because elites are out of control is like deciding, "Hey, Americans are too fat. I'm going to cut the calorie intake of every person in the world in half, including children in famine regions." That's both ineffective and cruel.

You ever have that teacher who punished the whole class for the actions of one kid? That teacher was a bad teacher.

sadownik wrote: »

@Roovin i am so freaking tired of this "its like in every other MMO" argument. You know why? Because if you have experience with MMOs you should know that sometimes changes in 1 patch can kill the game, even with the IP much, much more popular than TES.

When people are constantly crying about how easy PvE is, expect major changes. Just because it effects how your particular class plays doesn't mean it'll be the death of an MMO. People will adapt and new builds will develop and everything will be fine in the long run.

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

...
c) Quit altogether

Again, any player is free to make whatever choice they want. People who choose a), I can respect. I can even respect people who choose b), because they're sticking it out for the long haul even when it's difficult, and may even turn into a player from choice a).

People who choose c) are, at least in my mind, no different from a toddler throwing a tantrum, i.e. a big bubble-blowin' baby.

What a ludicrous statement. I'm playing a game because I enjoy it. If ZOS changes the game to the point where I don't enjoy it anymore, why would I stay? I always play Rogue style characters, so in ESO I'm playing a stamblade. I really enjoy the ability to throw on heavy gear and become a mediocre noob-tank, or to put on my medium gear and be the DD that I like playing.

If I find myself having to level another character simply to play the same content that I play now, the fun of the game will be gone for me, and I will look for something else. I don't mind redistributing CP or skill points, but I'm not going to have another endless fight with RNG simply to keep on playing the content I currently do. No tantrum, not bubbles blown, simply a carefully considered choice of what I want to spend my recreational time on. At this point in time I still enjoy playing a Nightblade in ESO. I will re-evaluate after Morrowind - if I still enjoy my NB despite the dreaded changes I'll buy Morrowind. If I don't, then I'll simply look for something else to play.

@subtlezeroub17_ESO absolutely, you are right. In group of few hundred thousand or even millions of people you will always find those that cry wolf.

But then again i witnessed SWG and other MMOs downfall caused by one unfortunate patch. They didn't die immediately, this true, but the fact is, this happens too.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying thats the case with Morrowind. In fact i would be surprised if it was, but it might be because there are many people, that for TES lore, or because this is their first MMO and they fell in love will tolerate much more than in other non TES MMO titles.

ESO already lost most of its hardcore player base, and PvP player base. I dont understand why ZoS doesn't just leave these infinite resource/high damage builds alone, they are not going to draw in a significant amount of players who left.

Everyone i know who played ESO for its PvP for 1-2 years will never touch this game no matter how its changed. ZoS has been moving away from its original combat system for such a long time. Even if resources were difficult to manage like they used to be so many nerfs to abilities have happened from then to now its silly to just try to press reset with resource management.

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Just wanted to retell a short story I created back in 2004 for Blizzard, to help PvP/PvE development.

"Normalize and Standardize all PvP skills and equipment values so that PvE players are unaffected." The end.
They didn't take my consideration seriously and many skills and classes were nerfed/buffed needlessly to make adjustments...a vicious cycle of stupidity.

Standardizing all values means that only SKILL dictates the winners of a pvp match.

Well for some reason they claimed in the response of these notes they did not want to do that, I did not understand it myself.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

So far the main changes i see are the coming of warden and the reduced sustian, which as a pvp player im ecstatic about. I completely agree with zos that sustain is stupidly easy conpared to earlier eso. I dont really care about much else of the changes because they dont seem all bad, maybe im missing something.

What is so bad about morrowind?

Yeah you're missing the bit where not everyone, in fact not even the majority, give a damn about PvP.

You're missing the bit where PvE players - who are the significant majority - are sick and tired of seeing their play style, their class, their builds nerfed through the floor just because a vocal minority of PvPers whine when someone beats them.

Don't like getting beat in PvP you have two choices - 1) Git Gud 2) Stop Playing PvP.

I knew I was never going to get good enough at PvP to enjoy it as much as I would want, so I stopped playing PvP.
Not once, not ever, did I throw dolly out the pram and rant that X needs to be nerfed, because I knew those nerfs would have far more impact on PvE than they do on PvP because far fewer players regularly PvP.

All The Best

How does one nerf pve, if anything the content becomes more difficult for every player equally. The content is still very much doable, afaic the pve content in eso is too easy as it is. I dont see why theres an issue with content becoming all around harder for every player meaning the rewards from that content will be more rare and difficult to achieve which in turn makes pve feel alot more rewarding

I have no problem with content getting harder.

I have an issue when the very specific build I have spent over a year skilling and gearing up no longer works AT ALL because someone got it handed to them in Cyrodiil and whined.

All The Best

This sounds very hypocritical. Maybe take some of your own advice?

I love and agree with the changes. Making and honing builds are part of the fun anyway. Did you actually expect to run that one build for the rest of your ESO career?

Either:

1) Git Gud
2) Stop playing PVE

With champion points + gear sets + class abilities it's a way over convoluted system and impossible to balance
They're only choice is to dumb it down a bit.
As it is someone with 600 CP and Awesome gear set of Awesome will solo public dungeons, 2 shot other players in Cyrodil and all while never having to pay attention to Stamina or Magicka.
Another player with 200 CPs and random quest gear can barely do much more than regular delves and is just fodder in PVP.
Something needed to change.

Roovin wrote: »

1)There are classes and builds out there that can solo any dungeon in like 10-15 minutes.
2) There are classes and builds out there that can tank and heal at the same time negating the need for a healer.
3)There are classes and builds out there that can solo world bosses.

And people are complaining about getting nerfed? Pfff

All of that is fun and everything but if people cannot see why that is completely unbalanced then...

Change happens in every MMO out there.

Please inform yourself:

1) PVE in ESO is meant to be played by a solo player. This does make sense as the vestige is one person ... and the story played is that of the vestige and not the vestige and his guild/friends/random ppl passing by/etc.
Nothing in the PTS patch notes aims to change that. Dungeons are part of this story, to solo them is perfectly normal.

To make this clear, even after the patch every player should be able to solo dungeons in PVE, the class that can sprint through a dungeon naked and blindfolded and still kill all mobs atm will not loose any of the abilities to do what they do with the next patch. For the rest it will take a little more time (then it already does compared to sorcs). And THIS is why ppl fail to see the fun in this nerfs.

2) Please inform yourself about the class skills. You will find that each class can heal and tank at the same time - and no, ppl do not complain about this getting nerfed. Simply because this isn't what this patch is going to be about. To be able to tank and heal and even do damage on top of it with any class is intended by design and no one playing ESO for longer then a handfull of weeks will think this is going to change.

Simply spoken: all classes have skills to provide a toolset for each role: healer, DD, tank. These roles are not important for PVE, they are important for endcontend namely PVP, trials, pledges. Atm classes greatly differ in their abilty to fill these roles hence take part in endcontent. The new patch is not aiming to change this basic concept and in no way it has been a question of one class only fills one role in ESO. The complains in the forum are not about this core - approach but about the removal of many to all skills to certain classes that actually made it possible for each class to fill all roles AND be somewhat viable in endcontent. If the patch goes live as it is, some classes will loose the ability or the opportunity to perform in any 1 or even 2 of these roles in endcontend situations. If we look at PVP this means some classes loose the ability to perfom in PVP at a level that is higher than just beeing the punching ball for any other class. In trails and pledges some classes will not loose their ability but most likely their oportunity to take part. Since trials etc are centered around good group play its natural that ppl will check if their teammates are able to provide a noteable contribution. We (the players) know that especially for this endcontend some classes are already having trouble meeting the standards even PUG groups are expecting - funny enough with the patch the class that is regarded the worst class for PVE endcontend already will see the nerf hammer heavily hitting them. Again, this is most probably the reason why ppl fail to see the fun... especially NBs.

3) Yes ... and dolmen too if they get a chance to do so, maybe i am spoiling some fun for you, but during your quests you repeatedly defeat bosses and in one quest: solo a dolmen. Its not harder to do this with worldbosses once you know what you are doing and use the abilities you got wisely. i am pretty sure the patch notes do not aim at changing this, nor is any player (exept you it seems) complaining about the abilty to solo at least some world bosses.

You see, nothing you mentioned is actually in any way a topic in the changes to come... and please take the time to read everything up -- even if its just to prove me wrong. I urge you, as the changes that are going to hit us will be hard, but not in a way you currently imagine.

Lastly, I like to add... ESO is not "any mmo" it specifically doesn't want to be like "any mmo". Nor do many, I even imagine it to be a majority, players want ESO to be like "any mmo". Sure, changes are met with alot of drama here in the forums, but least assured this time every player i know first fell into shock after reading the patch notes. You surely have not noted that there are no: "Yeah class/playstile/race XY got nerfed and i like it!" - threads, which is very unusal. As far as I know both sides: support and drama are vocal and provide valid arguments as well drama and outcry. I see very little on the support side ... and honestly, even drama and outcry is LOW. People try to argue on a basis that allows discussions, even notorious baiters are quiet to an unusual extend. But, hey, you know it all, right?