Indirect nerfs on the PTS
Veg
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This thread is for the change to block cost ticking 2x more than it currently can and how it affects the mDK class in pvp. Keep the battle roar nerf rage away from here (I agree its crazy). Magic DK's in PVP are well known for having their absolute fundamental mechanics out right removed from the game completely (dynamic ult, stam regen while blocking) and it appears to be happening again.
Magic DK's 100% NEED TO USE SWORD/SHIELD TO FUNCTION IN PVP. There is no alternative. This remains true with any play style be it tanking, burst damage ganking or 1 on 1 combat. Yes some builds take the tanking part to the extreme and function too well and deserve to be nerfed. But this is AGAIN using a nuclear war head in an attempt to remove a tumor from a cancer patient.
On live: Blocking costs 2160 and can tick every 500ms
On PTS: Blocking costs 2160 and can tick every 250ms
This means blocking Can cost 2x more stamina. While this may not do much to a perma blocker that can still restore more stamina than blocking drains (Cost can be reduced to 48 stamina per 250ms), it does obliterate anyone trying to fight other players as a mDK. The fact is that we get our damage mitigation from blocking. Not dodge rolling, stacking shields or healing. So if a mDK wants to kill another player they need to somehow get enough damage to kill that player while using sword and shield and not moving anywhere. We can already barely manage our stamina and magic as is if our goal is to kill other players.
The nerfs to our resources from passives aren't game breaking. Its the unintentional nerfs like this however that can completely destroy a class as it has happened in the past. This sends us a message. No one at ZoS knows how to play a mDK in pvp. Otherwise these nerfs would never happen. We need to somehow get the message across that this class functions around blocking. Then they might consider our requests for Flames of oblivion doing AoE again and getting our counter sustain back.
mDK play style that should be encouraged
https://youtu.be/rXn5vpcbj3E
mDK play style that should be nerfed
https://youtu.be/_HpsX1SOT4g
You can see in then first video im getting 6k+ whips and in the second video, even though im emperor I do almost no damage. The difference is I have 3600+ spell damage in the first vid with almost 0 defense and the exact opposite in the second vid. The nerf to blocking kills both of those play styles. There has to be a different solution. Keep hitting sets like malubeth and fassalas. Test a hard cap on block cost reduction. But don't straight up double block cost.
Magic DK's 100% NEED TO USE SWORD/SHIELD TO FUNCTION IN PVP. There is no alternative. This remains true with any play style be it tanking, burst damage ganking or 1 on 1 combat. Yes some builds take the tanking part to the extreme and function too well and deserve to be nerfed. But this is AGAIN using a nuclear war head in an attempt to remove a tumor from a cancer patient.
On live: Blocking costs 2160 and can tick every 500ms
On PTS: Blocking costs 2160 and can tick every 250ms
This means blocking Can cost 2x more stamina. While this may not do much to a perma blocker that can still restore more stamina than blocking drains (Cost can be reduced to 48 stamina per 250ms), it does obliterate anyone trying to fight other players as a mDK. The fact is that we get our damage mitigation from blocking. Not dodge rolling, stacking shields or healing. So if a mDK wants to kill another player they need to somehow get enough damage to kill that player while using sword and shield and not moving anywhere. We can already barely manage our stamina and magic as is if our goal is to kill other players.
The nerfs to our resources from passives aren't game breaking. Its the unintentional nerfs like this however that can completely destroy a class as it has happened in the past. This sends us a message. No one at ZoS knows how to play a mDK in pvp. Otherwise these nerfs would never happen. We need to somehow get the message across that this class functions around blocking. Then they might consider our requests for Flames of oblivion doing AoE again and getting our counter sustain back.
mDK play style that should be encouraged
https://youtu.be/rXn5vpcbj3EmDK play style that should be nerfed
https://youtu.be/_HpsX1SOT4gYou can see in then first video im getting 6k+ whips and in the second video, even though im emperor I do almost no damage. The difference is I have 3600+ spell damage in the first vid with almost 0 defense and the exact opposite in the second vid. The nerf to blocking kills both of those play styles. There has to be a different solution. Keep hitting sets like malubeth and fassalas. Test a hard cap on block cost reduction. But don't straight up double block cost.
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's stupid indeed. It does nothing about permablockers, they will just continue doing what they are doing.
As always, it hurts those who play properly and fair (just like shieldbreaker hurts non shield stackers more than it hurts actual shieldstackers)
I think the only way to do something, is to make it so that blocking over a long period of time either drains stamina directly, or simply increases the cost of blocking more and more the longer you hold block. And you will have to stop blocking for 2 seconds or so in order for the penalty to restore. (similar to roll dodge and streak)Edited by Dracane on April 22, 2017 2:43AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.5 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭If you think there's no other way but sword/board for mDK, then you do nothing more then copy paste other peoples builds, cause that is probably the most ignorant unfounded statement I've read on the forums in a long time.Edited by Maikon on April 22, 2017 2:55AM10 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rather than double the cost of blocking which just drains non-tanks of their precious stamina that much faster, there should be a scaling block cost. The first 2 seconds of blocking should be cheap, no matter who you are, maybe only charging twice. The third second of straight blocking should ramp up the cost. After five seconds, perhaps, you will have been charged 8 times for blocking. By the 8th second of holding block (and being relentlessly attacked) you have been charged the block cost 20 times, and so on. The cost would progressively increase this way, and decrease in a similar manner. Think of it like an overheating gun. The more you use it in a short duration, the faster it heats up and it takes time to cool down. This would encourage blocking especially dangerous attacks, rather than just holding block while using other skills. Or whatever tanks do.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?5 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭Rather than double the cost of blocking which just drains non-tanks of their precious stamina that much faster, there should be a scaling block cost. The first 2 seconds of blocking should be cheap, no matter who you are, maybe only charging twice. The third second of straight blocking should ramp up the cost. After five seconds, perhaps, you will have been charged 8 times for blocking. By the 8th second of holding block (and being relentlessly attacked) you have been charged the block cost 20 times, and so on. The cost would progressively increase this way, and decrease in a similar manner. Think of it like an overheating gun. The more you use it in a short duration, the faster it heats up and it takes time to cool down. This would encourage blocking especially dangerous attacks, rather than just holding block while using other skills. Or whatever tanks do.
I agree that perma blocking in pvp is stupid, but what you said would completely destroy all ability for a tank in trials and dungeons.Edited by Maikon on April 22, 2017 2:59AM0 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭If you think there's no other way but sword/board for mDK, then you do nothing more then copy paste other peoples builds, cause that is probably the most ignorant unfounded statement I've read on the forums in a long time.
I've done literally everything possible on a mDK in PVP. Show me how any other build can compete with a Sword/shield build. The next closest thing is destro/resto. The drawback is 0 counter play to stam builds. Im not talking about the average player. I'm talking about the experienced players that know all the mechanics. These players have no disagreement when it comes to mDK's in the current game.
Show me a video of a mDK in PVP not using sword/shield and beating top players from other classes. It never happens. Sword/shield is 100% required. We have no other damage mitigation. No dodge roll. No shields. No movement. Blocking is our only mitigation.
Ask me to post more videos as proof
Or hit me up @Nick_Almighty in game for a duel.Edited by Veg on April 22, 2017 3:20AMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ4 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭I use a destro/resto build and I have no problem taking on stam builds, or surviving a 1v5, but I also play on azuras where cp means nothing. Yea, it's a bit harder in TF, but I can still hold my own against stam builds.0
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Veg✭✭✭✭✭I use a destro/resto build and I have no problem taking on stam builds, or surviving a 1v5, but I also play on azuras where cp means nothing. Yea, it's a bit harder in TF, but I can still hold my own against stam builds.
Come duel me @Nick_Almighty NA pc ign Veg. I'm willing to show you first hand that you lack damage mitigation and the devs need to know this. They need to know how mDK's actually function in PVP so they can balance accordingly.
On another note, i've completely forgotten how these changes will affect the casual players. They wont even be able to attempt playing the mDK in PVP. They already have major trouble managing their magic and stamina. These changes will kill any motive for playing a mDK as a new player. Then again it creates even more motive to buy the warden class for $40 USD...Edited by Veg on April 22, 2017 5:00AMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The entire purpose of the nerf was due to the sheer effectiveness and annoying prominence of One Hand and Shield in PvP.
It was too strong. Anyone who doesn't think so can port into Cyrodiil and find how most all decent players are running One Hand Shield/Resto or One Hand and Shield/2H builds on Heavy Armor which perform all roles well. This change was put in place to stop your character from dealing huge damage/heals while still managing to block near-infinitely. In other words, this nerf did exactly was it wanted to do, and honestly it sounds fantastic to me. You can still block most attacks as long as you do it smartly, though it is certainly not as strong due to the 2x Stamina cost (a change very welcome to PvP gameplay nowadays).
Please don't try to say persuade us that the nerf to Malubeth was bad, or that a Mag DK EMP is underpowered and how you can't sustain/hit hard enough with them. It sounds ridiculous. Any Emp is powerful and can easily 1vX most groups that size when used competently.
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arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone who doesn't think so can port into Cyrodiil and find how most all decent players are running One Hand Shield/Resto or One Hand and Shield/2H builds on Heavy Armor which perform all roles well.
What? This is just wrong. Two of the strongest specs this patch are stamplar and magic sorc and they use DW and destro respectively.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/171 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭
Please don't try to say persuade us that the nerf to Malubeth was bad, or that a Mag DK EMP is underpowered and how you can't sustain/hit hard enough with them. It sounds ridiculous. Any Emp is powerful and can easily 1vX most groups that size when used competently.
My whole point is to get the builds performing like that little emp clip to be nerfed. Just not by also nerfing builds like the first clip. I've gotten similar results to that tanking without emp buffs. I used that clip because it illustrates the playstyle very well. Pure perma-block tanking. Thats why more set's that perform similarly to malubeth should be nerfed like the skeletor monster set, troll king, plague doctor, bee keeper etc...
Its just sad to see everything the mDK is built on get destroyed again just like when they took out dynamic ult gen and stam regen while blockingWhat is your in game name in azuras?
Only ign is "Veg" send me a mail if you wanna duel.
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utb99✭✭✭To OP
Magplars are the same boat. Admittingly we run S&B back bar, but seeing as the state of the game is poor, we're on it most of time block-casting Heals, cleaning, etc. We only get a small window to switch to our dps bar and jab ppl.
I'm in favor of increasing the block cost as time goes on as @WhiteMage suggested'The gods can turn anything to good' -Martin Septim0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK first note why care about someone that stacked his defense to the point he cant really kill anyone ... He is no threat let him troll around ...
PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The entire purpose of the nerf was due to the sheer effectiveness and annoying prominence of One Hand and Shield in PvP.
It was too strong. Anyone who doesn't think so can port into Cyrodiil and find how most all decent players are running One Hand Shield/Resto or One Hand and Shield/2H builds on Heavy Armor which perform all roles well. This change was put in place to stop your character from dealing huge damage/heals while still managing to block near-infinitely. In other words, this nerf did exactly was it wanted to do, and honestly it sounds fantastic to me. You can still block most attacks as long as you do it smartly, though it is certainly not as strong due to the 2x Stamina cost (a change very welcome to PvP gameplay nowadays).
So to nerf perma-blocking, ZoS should make blocking in a light armor staff build prohibitively expensive?
It's counterproductive. After every block nerf, people quickly adapt and bring perma-block tanks. So the only players this is punishing are precisely those that haven't abusing it.
There was a time I wore light armor. Then I couldn't do the things ZoS suggests in their tutorial like blocking high damaging attacks without running out of stam and dying. So I put down the resto staff and light armor and donned heavy armor and equipped a sword & board.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
Adenoma✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Maikon , I don't think you know magDK. Plus, I don't think you can 1v5 on magDK if there is a single competent player in the mix. My source? I've 1vX'd you a whole truckload of times playing a S&B magDK when you've played some other magDK variant. I don't know that you're qualified to critique the current state of magDK or to tell people that they copy and paste builds.
MagDK has some other variants that are very viable (S&B/destro, LA and HA), but because of battle roar on live the stamina return enables powerful use of the existing block mechanics. That really gets shot to pieces with the huge increase to block cost compounded on the reduction in stamina return from the constitution nerfs.Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma1 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »The entire purpose of the nerf was due to the sheer effectiveness and annoying prominence of One Hand and Shield in PvP.
It was too strong. Anyone who doesn't think so can port into Cyrodiil and find how most all decent players are running One Hand Shield/Resto or One Hand and Shield/2H builds on Heavy Armor which perform all roles well. This change was put in place to stop your character from dealing huge damage/heals while still managing to block near-infinitely. In other words, this nerf did exactly was it wanted to do, and honestly it sounds fantastic to me. You can still block most attacks as long as you do it smartly, though it is certainly not as strong due to the 2x Stamina cost (a change very welcome to PvP gameplay nowadays).
So to nerf perma-blocking, ZoS should make blocking in a light armor staff build prohibitively expensive?
It's counterproductive. After every block nerf, people quickly adapt and bring perma-block tanks. So the only players this is punishing are precisely those that haven't abusing it.
There was a time I wore light armor. Then I couldn't do the things ZoS suggests in their tutorial like blocking high damaging attacks without running out of stam and dying. So I put down the resto staff and light armor and donned heavy armor and equipped a sword & board.
No it's not... what can a block build do to you.. limited to no burst... If you spend time trying to kill a troll that's your problem why bother... I play in cryodil almost everynight i have not encountered one these that my small group could not kill... now before last patch you encountered these with vitality pots...
Omg please show in math how perms blocking is achieved..Keep in mind you need to able to kill someone to... build it for me pleaseEdited by Durham on April 22, 2017 6:08PMPVP DEADWAIT
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