NDA partial lift - New Healer Meta

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

Spottswoode · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Buy Trinimac Valor if you are a DK healer. It will be your BiS for PvP healing.

If you want consistent damage shields with healing, you're better of using Combat Physician. If you want to deal damage with your damage shields, Infernal Guardians is the way to go. Both of those together will outperform Trinimac's Valor.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Name 3.

My pleasure.

1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

Sorc's advantage in healing
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

1. Eledrain
2. 5% spell damage that can come from temp DPS.
3. 2% damage increase most, nothing at worst.
4. Healing ward.
5. Engergy orb, you get magic back and heal the group on syngergy.
6. 8% more healing is nice but ultimately it going to set the world on fire, and extra 12% heals on class heals is nothing when the only class heals used are a burst, that would of got you out of low health regardless and a ground aoe that ticks every two seconds.
7. You can get almost 100% SPC uptime with just rapid regen, energy orbs and springs.

I am not arguing for any class, I am saying with the changes they are making there is nothing that defines the templar healer all classes now have access to the defining feature of a Templar healer, stam return, which is not "cleanse harmful effects". Take that away, the class is nothing special. At least give repentance the AOE Stam return, so stamplars and tankplars are not fighting for dead bodys.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Spottswoode wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Buy Trinimac Valor if you are a DK healer. It will be your BiS for PvP healing.

If you want consistent damage shields with healing, you're better of using Combat Physician. If you want to deal damage with your damage shields, Infernal Guardians is the way to go. Both of those together will outperform Trinimac's Valor.

Igneous Shield will proc Trinimac, that's why it will be strong in PvP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Name 3.

My pleasure.

1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

Sorc's advantage in healing
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

1. Eledrain
2. 5% spell damage that can come from temp DPS.
3. 2% damage increase most, nothing at worst.
4. Healing ward.
5. Engergy orb, you get magic back and heal the group on syngergy.
6. 8% more healing is nice but ultimately it going to set the world on fire, and extra 12% heals on class heals is nothing when the only class heals used are a burst, that would of got you out of low health regardless and a ground aoe that ticks every two seconds.
7. You can get almost 100% SPC uptime with just rapid regen, energy orbs and springs.

I am not arguing for any class, I am saying with the changes they are making there is nothing that defines the templar healer all classes now have access to the defining feature of a Templar healer, stam return, which is not "cleanse harmful effects". Take that away, the class is nothing special. At least give repentance the AOE Stam return, so stamplars and tankplars are not fighting for dead bodys.

1) That's not an AOE.
2+3) In a raid people try to maximize every 0.1% damage increase, 2% and 5% damage increase is a lot when you look at the boss's HP bar.
4) That a Templar also has access to.
5) That a Templar also has access to.
6) It's not going to set the world on fire but it's a massive advantage compared to other classes.
7) Doesn't change the fact that SPC will be most effective on a Magplar.

Then again, what's the advantages other classes have?
I know sorcs have an Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar and that's it.

That's where I disagree, feeding stamina to the group shouldn't be what defines Templar, it's the reason why non-Templar healers are not allowed to join a raid. It's like transferring Pierce Armour to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. If you want Templar to be the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid, by keeping the ability that restores stamina to your group exclusively to them, then make sure to take away Templar's tanking and DPSing capabilties. if a sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if Templar cannot DPS.

Also, I agree that Repentance shouldn't be nerfed.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Buy Trinimac Valor if you are a DK healer. It will be your BiS for PvP healing.

If you want consistent damage shields with healing, you're better of using Combat Physician. If you want to deal damage with your damage shields, Infernal Guardians is the way to go. Both of those together will outperform Trinimac's Valor.

Well as I said Trinimac will be used in PvP, not PvE.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Name 3.

My pleasure.

1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

Sorc's advantage in healing
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

1. Eledrain
2. 5% spell damage that can come from temp DPS.
3. 2% damage increase most, nothing at worst.
4. Healing ward.
5. Engergy orb, you get magic back and heal the group on syngergy.
6. 8% more healing is nice but ultimately it going to set the world on fire, and extra 12% heals on class heals is nothing when the only class heals used are a burst, that would of got you out of low health regardless and a ground aoe that ticks every two seconds.
7. You can get almost 100% SPC uptime with just rapid regen, energy orbs and springs.

I am not arguing for any class, I am saying with the changes they are making there is nothing that defines the templar healer all classes now have access to the defining feature of a Templar healer, stam return, which is not "cleanse harmful effects". Take that away, the class is nothing special. At least give repentance the AOE Stam return, so stamplars and tankplars are not fighting for dead bodys.

1) That's not an AOE.
2+3) In a raid people try to maximize every 0.1% damage increase, 2% and 5% damage increase is a lot when you look at the boss's HP bar.
4) That a Templar also has access to.
5) That a Templar also has access to.
6) It's not going to set the world on fire but it's a massive advantage compared to other classes.
7) Doesn't change the fact that SPC will be most effective on a Magplar.

Then again, what's the advantages other classes have?

There are counter points to all the list, I know them all, you know them all, I am not going to bother to regurgitate them all here.

Again, I am not arguing for any class here, so you can stop bringing up sorcs for whatever reason you are.

The thing I am trying to point out is that you can just use the same skills on each class, ones that are not in class and now they will all perform more or less the same as a healer. This is not a good thing to me. Again, I am not asking for much, just make it so that repentance gives stam back like it does right now, so Templars are not fighting over dead bodys.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Buy Trinimac Valor if you are a DK healer. It will be your BiS for PvP healing.

If you want consistent damage shields with healing, you're better of using Combat Physician. If you want to deal damage with your damage shields, Infernal Guardians is the way to go. Both of those together will outperform Trinimac's Valor.

Well as I said Trinimac will be used in PvP, not PvE.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Name 3.

My pleasure.

1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

Sorc's advantage in healing
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

1. Eledrain
2. 5% spell damage that can come from temp DPS.
3. 2% damage increase most, nothing at worst.
4. Healing ward.
5. Engergy orb, you get magic back and heal the group on syngergy.
6. 8% more healing is nice but ultimately it going to set the world on fire, and extra 12% heals on class heals is nothing when the only class heals used are a burst, that would of got you out of low health regardless and a ground aoe that ticks every two seconds.
7. You can get almost 100% SPC uptime with just rapid regen, energy orbs and springs.

I am not arguing for any class, I am saying with the changes they are making there is nothing that defines the templar healer all classes now have access to the defining feature of a Templar healer, stam return, which is not "cleanse harmful effects". Take that away, the class is nothing special. At least give repentance the AOE Stam return, so stamplars and tankplars are not fighting for dead bodys.

1) That's not an AOE.
2+3) In a raid people try to maximize every 0.1% damage increase, 2% and 5% damage increase is a lot when you look at the boss's HP bar.
4) That a Templar also has access to.
5) That a Templar also has access to.
6) It's not going to set the world on fire but it's a massive advantage compared to other classes.
7) Doesn't change the fact that SPC will be most effective on a Magplar.

Then again, what's the advantages other classes have?

There are counter points to all the list, I know them all, you know them all, I am not going to bother to regurgitate them all here.

Again, I am not arguing for any class here, so you can stop bringing up sorcs for whatever reason you are.

The thing I am trying to point out is that you can just use the same skills on each class, ones that are not in class and now they will all perform more or less the same as a healer. This is not a good thing to me. Again, I am not asking for much, just make it so that repentance gives stam back like it does right now, so Templars are not fighting over dead bodys.

It's absolutely the point, Templar isn't the only class that is allowed to heal, so other classes can use other skills to do their jobs (you want them to heal or nah?), but that will be slightly less effective than what a Templar can do. Need to apply minor magickasteal? Templar: click one button. Non-Templar: manually apply ele drain to multiple targets. Oh *** moment? Templar: click BoL, save 2 guys. Non-Templar: Healing Ward, damn there were 2 low health guys, one is down now. And yet, Templar also has access to Healing Ward, so technically they can save 3 guys. Want a nice AOE HoT? Templar: drop Ritual. Non-Templar: Rapid Regen, then throw Orbs. Oh wait, Templar also pops Rapid and throws orbs, so they are 3 times as effective. Oh, and do not forget those bonuses that Templar has, Minor sorcery to the group, Backlash debuff, and more healing because of Minor Mending and the Mending passive. In a raid people try to maximize every 0.1% damage increase, so 2% and 5% damage increase is a lot.

And that's not my main point. My main point is, feeding stamina to the group shouldn't be what defines Templar, it's the reason why non-Templar healers are not allowed to join a raid. It's like transferring Pierce Armour to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. If you want Templar to be the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid, by keeping the ability that restores stamina to your group exclusively to them, then make sure to take away Templar's tanking and DPSing capabilties. if a sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if Templar cannot DPS.

Then again, I agree that Repentance shouldn't be nerfed.

peacenote · April 2017

[quote="hmsdragonfly;4025760"
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

[/quote]

Reading this has made me realize part of the reason for the debates is that some people are looking at the Templar changes (heck, probably all of the class changes) from the perspective of BiS, hardmode, trials healing perspective, and some of us are looking at it from an "across-the-game utility" perspective. And that's without even throwing PvP into the mix.

I like to attack content in interesting and challenging ways. My issue with the Templar changes is that a lot of the cool, unique utility that their abilities had were removed, which was part of why I loved the class. Is it a problem that people doing Trials only wanted Templar healers? Is it a problem that Templars were maybe considered OP when raid composition mattered? Ok, sure, yes. But LOTS of us out there don't JUST do that, or even do that at all! I do run trials, personally, but not regularly, and I sure don't have any Trials full gear sets.

I like to see what content I can solo. I like to try to duo dungeons with a partner. SO. It bums me out that shards no longer stun. Makes it harder to solo stuff. I REALLY HATE the BoL cone change, because in order to duo content and have a non-positional heal (to duo content meant for four people means a lot of dodging, running around, being more active) I have to use healing springs now (which still requires placement)... which is boring, because ALL of my character healers have that. I'm now less mobile and less flexible because min/maxers doing end game content were elite and/or needed Templars to squeeze out a little more sustain for their groups.

For anything except maybe the hardest end game content, all of the classes could be great healers BEFORE this patch. I healed on Templar, NB, and Sorc because each one had a different feel to keep it interesting. I never got kicked from a group or struggled with healing on any of those three classes. I was a decent Templar healer before, and even if the changes from PTS stay exactly the same, I'll still be a great healer afterwards with that class. Not worried about that, never was. That isn't really the point.

This is about FUN and getting satisfaction out of different play styles. At least for me. Nerfs and balance are fine. Lower uptimes, procs, %'s, etc. if something is OP. The issue is taking out the unique mechanics from a class in order to give the opportunities to all the classes, as opposed to finding other ways to add to their arsenals. I am all about having all of the classes be equally great and desired healers. I want one of each!!! What is disturbing and upsetting about the strategy of these particular changes is that the way it was done reduced utility and unique feel for the Templar class, and made sure "everyone" can add to the raid by having the same ability and mechanic in a skill tree everyone has access to. I think it's the wrong direction for the game, and the wrong solution for what definitely was an issue (Templar healers dominating end game content).

I spent some time on PTS last night. The change where shards (and orbs) gives back what resource is lowest actually ended up not being annoying like I thought it would be. The sustain nerf was so hard I never once picked up a shard and had it not restore what I needed. :P However the repentance change is silly, the BoL change makes me super sad, and shards not being special just takes the fun out of things. I can heal just fine, as before. But HOW I'm healing feels less unique and more boring.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2017

Come on @hmsdragonfly I really don't care to go though each and every one of those examples. You know that every class can heal and that there is now nothing special about Templars, since everyone can give stam back.

I really don't understand why you continue to argue with me on this.

If you really want to continue this, go to this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can, all the counter points to what you are talking about there.

I am glad we can see eye to eye on the repentance change, to me, it is really only about not cause unnecessary drama with more then one Templar in the group.

Fodore · April 2017

Templars are meant to be healers.

idk · April 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.

Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.

Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).

Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.

@ZOS_RichLambert

I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.

Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.

All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.

Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.

Especially with the heavy attack with a resto, I remember going through CoA when it was new and people took more damage, on the titan never had an issue healing it, just heavy attacked often and did not have an issue keeping magika up while keeping everyone alive.. It is not a big deal but something we have not had to do recently with the builds possible on live.

Aionna · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

I don't think the "templars will get it first " is a good enough reason. Also if i have the option as a templar to have a monster helm to provide me or my group with some sort of utility or buff that I don't have why shouldn't I use it and instead overfeed with resources? Are there going to be people that always abuse sets? yes!

If for example trinimac's valor instead of damaging gave stamina (adjusting the radius) and they can increase the radius of obsidian shield so dragonknights can have an edge when people aren't close together. That way with if a templar wanted to use it will probably have to go for bone shield a stamina skill, based on on max health , with a synergy (iirc) where teammate to get the benefits of the sets would have to use the synergy which is kind of meh for a templar healer.Also shield from resto only hits two people.
They can make specific sets for each class .

We have seen that currently dungeons can be done without the need of a healer so something in the game mechanics should change.All classes can heal not only

In my opinion diversity also comes from itemization , game mechanics and different sets of skills that each class has to offer.

Draqone · April 2017

necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »

I came back in the fall. No clue what that is as i avoided dungeons because of the kick happy nerds and the 15 timer penalties zyngamax decided to throw on me rather than them when i didn't even get to load into the dungeon before getting kicked. So if dungeons are how you level undaunted, no wonder most of my toons are still around 3 or 4 in undaunted. If i 'have' to have that, my two options are to either sell this and move on or to go for 2 or 3 slot weapon damage with a critical bonus on the second slot if forced to use a third for the flat weapon damage boost (unless the third tops a second) out of all armor types of course I have my eyes on dreugh king since armor type won't matter any more besides for defense with regen removed. I will certainly never tank or heal, and i will be mainly tapping light attacks with as much flat damage as possible with a little critical chance that had to come with it while the game is windowed and i watch tv or some shiz. If that's not good enough for the nerds, and the combat feels slow and unstimulating then I'll just sell this and move on I guess. And deter others from purchasing it the way I have begun doing with hearthstone while recommending alternatives such as Tera and Blade and Soul depending on their tastes. I wish a pantheon alpha at least was gonna be available this year now lol. I should nevr have been suckered into picking this game up again (been here isnce beta and launch). First time, shame on zyngamax. Second time, shame on myself. There won't be a third, if I delete the game again i won't be clearing 90gis on the game drive again to install it I will sell it and move on.

If you don't do endgame PvE group content, you don't need the undaunted passives so I am not sure what your concern is.

And if it's the group finder that irritates you, find a group in your guild to do dungeons with. Many people who complete hard content in this game team up with friends not with randoms.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · April 2017

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO At this point @hmsdragonfly Is in here yelling buff sorcs because being the best dps class and the second best tank class isn't good enough for him. Also nerf Templars.

I've never understood the people that go into other class threads and demand nerfs. Sorcs are ridiculously strong right now, but I don't go into sorc threads talking about how drags proc chance should be lowered or anything like that. I don't care that sorcs are strong. I just don't want my templar to suck.

VagabondLife · April 2017

I started reading this thread and REALLY wanted to agree with the OP.

But the more you post, the more you really do sound like you're gloating. Spiteful. Selfish. Like someone who's spent too long writing guides for sorc healers and sees this whole mess as a chance to get everyone to finally take them seriously.

Make Templars great again!

I main a mag sorc.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Come on @hmsdragonfly I really don't care to go though each and every one of those examples. You know that every class can heal and that there is now nothing special about Templars, since everyone can give stam back.

I really don't understand why you continue to argue with me on this.

If you really want to continue this, go to this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can, all the counter points to what you are talking about there.

I am glad we can see eye to eye on the repentance change, to me, it is really only about not cause unnecessary drama with more then one Templar in the group.

Come on, we all know that feeding stam to the group is now the healer's job, similar to how taunt and debuff are the tank's job. I don't get it, you are afraid of competition or something? Why don't you let non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete against Templar healers? You have all the edges in the world, as I have pointed out and we all agree that Templar is still the best class for healing.

Repentance's nerf is ridiculous, it's just the truth. I want what's best to the game.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO At this point @hmsdragonfly Is in here yelling buff sorcs because being the best dps class and the second best tank class isn't good enough for him. Also nerf Templars.

I've never understood the people that go into other class threads and demand nerfs. Sorcs are ridiculously strong right now, but I don't go into sorc threads talking about how drags proc chance should be lowered or anything like that. I don't care that sorcs are strong. I just don't want my templar to suck.

Haha, on the contrary, I want to nerf sorc. Anything else you would like to add?

Ashtaris · April 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

There's some positive talk about new classes of healers... I know it sucks templars, but it was for the better.

There's already discussion on how to make dk healers... got to say might be there time to shine as mentioned in patch notes they fixed the healing skill of their's, only class with major mending though admittedly if they get hit it's gone, but still ease access. With sustain issues dk healers will have ingenous weapons and dps could slot new potions combinations. ( merchants this is your chance to make gold) They have group shield switch between bone shield which cost less since there class shield returns stamina. (They get a buff in stamina return as they already have low stamina). Imagine a magma amour on dk healers... you might never have complete wipes again. Sets they might use are the group shield sets along with maybe lamina song. Don't forget by using ult you regain back.

The nightblade healer seems to be suffering from cost the most, but still can pull off dps and healing the best. It's doing well with class based breech, majority viality and other things might make them excellent members for trials, and healer and off healer.

Templar seems to be not fairing too bad. There's definitely some anger, but generally it's cooling down and people settle down and realize it's not much different. They still have more power burst healer than warden though less than sorrecer healer. They have very very important purtify and nova along with other skills. Seems like easiest class to use for healing

Sorcerer healers... we really are amazing. I defiantly out powered the scrub warden healers, mind they still don't know what they are doing, yet I am rooting for them for best pet healer. They have better access to minor intellect. (10% regain in magicka), can give major beserk to allies, large healing aoe that stuns area, minor prophecy, three bars options, ... and you know dark exchange. As it should be sorcerer healer has best resource management. .

If I had to bet, best healing class might be dragon knight coming up

How is this positive feedback? Dks are bar none the shittiest class to heal with. The fact dk is being considered at all is makingna glaring statement.

It's call diversity, it's open up for any class to heal with each suitable different play styles.

I'm all for diversity, but not at the expense of the class that was specifically designed for healing. It ZOS didn't want to make a healing class, then they never should have given Templars the Restoring Light skill line. Many of us who wanted to become healers specifically chose that class so we could be the best healers for our groupmates. Is that so wrong?

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

I don't think the "templars will get it first " is a good enough reason. Also if i have the option as a templar to have a monster helm to provide me or my group with some sort of utility or buff that I don't have why shouldn't I use it and instead overfeed with resources? Are there going to be people that always abuse sets? yes!

If for example trinimac's valor instead of damaging gave stamina (adjusting the radius) and they can increase the radius of obsidian shield so dragonknights can have an edge when people aren't close together. That way with if a templar wanted to use it will probably have to go for bone shield a stamina skill, based on on max health , with a synergy (iirc) where teammate to get the benefits of the sets would have to use the synergy which is kind of meh for a templar healer.Also shield from resto only hits two people.
They can make specific sets for each class .

We have seen that currently dungeons can be done without the need of a healer so something in the game mechanics should change.All classes can heal not only

In my opinion diversity also comes from itemization , game mechanics and different sets of skills that each class has to offer.

Look, the point is that Templar's ability to constantly feed stamina to the group is what makes Templar the defined healer right now. No one can even compete agaisnt Templar for a healer spot in a raid. Non-Templar healers don't have the toolkit needed to fill to do the job of a healer in a raid, which is feeding stam to the group. Master restro isn't enough, else you can see non-Templar healers everywhere. Do you? I don't think so. All I have seen are Templar healers, why I have seen sorc tanks and Templar tanks in raids, people don't seem to have any problem with that. Though I would love to see more non-DK tanks, but that's for another topic.

If you like diversity, then why don't open up the chance of non-Templar healers to compete against Tempalr healers? I don't get it.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Come on @hmsdragonfly I really don't care to go though each and every one of those examples. You know that every class can heal and that there is now nothing special about Templars, since everyone can give stam back.

I really don't understand why you continue to argue with me on this.

If you really want to continue this, go to this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can, all the counter points to what you are talking about there.

I am glad we can see eye to eye on the repentance change, to me, it is really only about not cause unnecessary drama with more then one Templar in the group.

Come on, we all know that feeding stam to the group is now the healer's job, similar to how taunt and debuff are the tank's job. I don't get it, you are afraid of competition or something? Why don't you let non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete against Templar healers? You have all the edges in the world, as I have pointed out and we all agree that Templar is still the best class for healing.

Repentance's nerf is ridiculous, it's just the truth. I want what's best to the game.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO At this point @hmsdragonfly Is in here yelling buff sorcs because being the best dps class and the second best tank class isn't good enough for him. Also nerf Templars.

I've never understood the people that go into other class threads and demand nerfs. Sorcs are ridiculously strong right now, but I don't go into sorc threads talking about how drags proc chance should be lowered or anything like that. I don't care that sorcs are strong. I just don't want my templar to suck.

Haha, on the contrary, I want to nerf sorc. Anything else you would like to add?

Then go to the nerf sorc thread. They received 0 class nerfs while templars were gutted. Go spread the word about how OP sorcs are. Your time will be better spent there than trying to make a bad templar class even worse.

Aionna · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

I don't think the "templars will get it first " is a good enough reason. Also if i have the option as a templar to have a monster helm to provide me or my group with some sort of utility or buff that I don't have why shouldn't I use it and instead overfeed with resources? Are there going to be people that always abuse sets? yes!

If for example trinimac's valor instead of damaging gave stamina (adjusting the radius) and they can increase the radius of obsidian shield so dragonknights can have an edge when people aren't close together. That way with if a templar wanted to use it will probably have to go for bone shield a stamina skill, based on on max health , with a synergy (iirc) where teammate to get the benefits of the sets would have to use the synergy which is kind of meh for a templar healer.Also shield from resto only hits two people.
They can make specific sets for each class .

We have seen that currently dungeons can be done without the need of a healer so something in the game mechanics should change.All classes can heal not only

In my opinion diversity also comes from itemization , game mechanics and different sets of skills that each class has to offer.

Look, the point is that Templar's ability to constantly feed stamina to the group is what makes Templar the defined healer right now. No one can even compete agaisnt Templar for a healer spot in a raid. Non-Templar healers don't have the toolkit needed to fill to do the job of a healer in a raid, which is feeding stam to the group. Master restro isn't enough, else you can see non-Templar healers everywhere. Do you? I don't think so. All I have seen are Templar healers, why I have seen sorc tanks and Templar tanks in raids, people don't seem to have any problem with that. Though I would love to see more non-DK tanks, but that's for another topic.

If you like diversity, then why don't open up the chance of non-Templar healers to compete against Tempalr healers? I don't get it.

well i don't agree and i will leave it at that

Tasear · April 2017

Duplicate post

Tasear · April 2017

VagabondLife wrote: »

I started reading this thread and REALLY wanted to agree with the OP.

But the more you post, the more you really do sound like you're gloating. Spiteful. Selfish. Like someone who's spent too long writing guides for sorc healers and sees this whole mess as a chance to get everyone to finally take them seriously.

Make Templars great again!

I main a mag sorc.

No I just don't like selfish people who play Templar and lost my head somewhere around page 9 saw the direction it was going at page 11 and tried to leave, but you did call me out, so hi.

My final thoughts it would suck to be pretty or developers for this. How do they keep clear head. Also not cut out for politics too much drama . I believe the powers that be seen all sides of the issue by now and we'll make a decision.

At this point it's better to discuss what kind of build you can make right now to be successful

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Come on @hmsdragonfly I really don't care to go though each and every one of those examples. You know that every class can heal and that there is now nothing special about Templars, since everyone can give stam back.

I really don't understand why you continue to argue with me on this.

If you really want to continue this, go to this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can, all the counter points to what you are talking about there.

I am glad we can see eye to eye on the repentance change, to me, it is really only about not cause unnecessary drama with more then one Templar in the group.

Come on, we all know that feeding stam to the group is now the healer's job, similar to how taunt and debuff are the tank's job. I don't get it, you are afraid of competition or something? Why don't you let non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete against Templar healers? You have all the edges in the world, as I have pointed out and we all agree that Templar is still the best class for healing.

Repentance's nerf is ridiculous, it's just the truth. I want what's best to the game.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO At this point @hmsdragonfly Is in here yelling buff sorcs because being the best dps class and the second best tank class isn't good enough for him. Also nerf Templars.

I've never understood the people that go into other class threads and demand nerfs. Sorcs are ridiculously strong right now, but I don't go into sorc threads talking about how drags proc chance should be lowered or anything like that. I don't care that sorcs are strong. I just don't want my templar to suck.

Haha, on the contrary, I want to nerf sorc. Anything else you would like to add?

Then go to the nerf sorc thread. They received 0 class nerfs while templars were gutted. Go spread the word about how OP sorcs are. Your time will be better spent there than trying to make a bad templar class even worse.

Then make a thread about it, I will join you.
Trying to make Templar bad? By wanting to make I make a thread asking to give Templar back Major Mending or remove Major Mending from warden? By wanting to give non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete with Templar healers for a spot in a raid? By wanting to restore repentence? You have mistaken me with someone else?

@Ron_Burgundy_79 I respect you because you are knowledgeable especially when you actually spend your time on making proper arguments. Even though you more than often just start throwing random personal attacks on me for some reasons and don't even bother explaining your point of view (and I have no idea why, you hate Dragonflies irl?), keep in mind that I will still respect your knowledge and I don't have anything against you. Just want to say that.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Ashtaris wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

There's some positive talk about new classes of healers... I know it sucks templars, but it was for the better.

There's already discussion on how to make dk healers... got to say might be there time to shine as mentioned in patch notes they fixed the healing skill of their's, only class with major mending though admittedly if they get hit it's gone, but still ease access. With sustain issues dk healers will have ingenous weapons and dps could slot new potions combinations. ( merchants this is your chance to make gold) They have group shield switch between bone shield which cost less since there class shield returns stamina. (They get a buff in stamina return as they already have low stamina). Imagine a magma amour on dk healers... you might never have complete wipes again. Sets they might use are the group shield sets along with maybe lamina song. Don't forget by using ult you regain back.

The nightblade healer seems to be suffering from cost the most, but still can pull off dps and healing the best. It's doing well with class based breech, majority viality and other things might make them excellent members for trials, and healer and off healer.

Templar seems to be not fairing too bad. There's definitely some anger, but generally it's cooling down and people settle down and realize it's not much different. They still have more power burst healer than warden though less than sorrecer healer. They have very very important purtify and nova along with other skills. Seems like easiest class to use for healing

Sorcerer healers... we really are amazing. I defiantly out powered the scrub warden healers, mind they still don't know what they are doing, yet I am rooting for them for best pet healer. They have better access to minor intellect. (10% regain in magicka), can give major beserk to allies, large healing aoe that stuns area, minor prophecy, three bars options, ... and you know dark exchange. As it should be sorcerer healer has best resource management. .

If I had to bet, best healing class might be dragon knight coming up

How is this positive feedback? Dks are bar none the shittiest class to heal with. The fact dk is being considered at all is makingna glaring statement.

It's call diversity, it's open up for any class to heal with each suitable different play styles.

I'm all for diversity, but not at the expense of the class that was specifically designed for healing. It ZOS didn't want to make a healing class, then they never should have given Templars the Restoring Light skill line. Many of us who wanted to become healers specifically chose that class so we could be the best healers for our groupmates. Is that so wrong?

You are still the best healing class. That hasn't changed, what has changed is that now other classes have a chance to compete for a spot in a raid, Templar still has all the edges in the world. You are still the best healing class out there.

ZOS want Templar to be DD/Tank/Healer, whichever role you want to fill.

Tasear · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Come on @hmsdragonfly I really don't care to go though each and every one of those examples. You know that every class can heal and that there is now nothing special about Templars, since everyone can give stam back.

I really don't understand why you continue to argue with me on this.

If you really want to continue this, go to this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can, all the counter points to what you are talking about there.

I am glad we can see eye to eye on the repentance change, to me, it is really only about not cause unnecessary drama with more then one Templar in the group.

Come on, we all know that feeding stam to the group is now the healer's job, similar to how taunt and debuff are the tank's job. I don't get it, you are afraid of competition or something? Why don't you let non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete against Templar healers? You have all the edges in the world, as I have pointed out and we all agree that Templar is still the best class for healing.

Repentance's nerf is ridiculous, it's just the truth. I want what's best to the game.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO At this point @hmsdragonfly Is in here yelling buff sorcs because being the best dps class and the second best tank class isn't good enough for him. Also nerf Templars.

I've never understood the people that go into other class threads and demand nerfs. Sorcs are ridiculously strong right now, but I don't go into sorc threads talking about how drags proc chance should be lowered or anything like that. I don't care that sorcs are strong. I just don't want my templar to suck.

Haha, on the contrary, I want to nerf sorc. Anything else you would like to add?

Then go to the nerf sorc thread. They received 0 class nerfs while templars were gutted. Go spread the word about how OP sorcs are. Your time will be better spent there than trying to make a bad templar class even worse.

Then make a thread about it, I will join you.
Trying to make Templar bad? By wanting to make I make a thread asking to give Templar back Major Mending or remove Major Mending from warden? By wanting to give non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete with Templar healers for a spot in a raid? By wanting to restore repentence? You have mistaken me with someone else?

@Ron_Burgundy_79 I respect you because you are knowledgeable especially when you actually spend your time on making proper arguments. Even though you more than often just start throwing random personal attacks on me for some reasons and don't even bother explaining your point of view (and I have no idea why, you hate Dragonflies irl?), keep in mind that I will still respect your knowledge and I don't have anything against you. Just want to say that.

I personally respect you... You have gone on longer than I some people can't see reason or our perception and at some point...I don't know if it's fruitful discussion or debate. By the way was original post to this thread. I feel like I should know, but things have gone of course.

While some don't agree, the company made a wise decision in such changes. It's something some of asked for awhile. While Templar are doom and gloom, I haven't hidden it enough, but rejoice a bit but it's only too be on level ground. If that somehow bothers .. then will there's something deeper wrong here.

IcyDeadPeople · April 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

It's discrimination that i can't play a nord stam sorc healer, nerf bow and give it stamina burst heal instead of volley. Or something. I want to heal with double bow and 64pts in health

Well at launch stamina builds couldn't do anything. All four classes can now dps or tank, some better than others, but templar is currently on a whole other level compared to the other classes at healing.

I'd say after this patch, DK sorc and NB will still be less optimal healers than templar or warden, but the gap is perhaps a little smaller.

As for the choice of race, even with the sustain changes I don't think it will matter too much except for veteran trials or speedrun leaderboards etc. You will need a resto staff though

Ron_Burgundy_79 · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Come on @hmsdragonfly I really don't care to go though each and every one of those examples. You know that every class can heal and that there is now nothing special about Templars, since everyone can give stam back.

I really don't understand why you continue to argue with me on this.

If you really want to continue this, go to this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can, all the counter points to what you are talking about there.

I am glad we can see eye to eye on the repentance change, to me, it is really only about not cause unnecessary drama with more then one Templar in the group.

Come on, we all know that feeding stam to the group is now the healer's job, similar to how taunt and debuff are the tank's job. I don't get it, you are afraid of competition or something? Why don't you let non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete against Templar healers? You have all the edges in the world, as I have pointed out and we all agree that Templar is still the best class for healing.

Repentance's nerf is ridiculous, it's just the truth. I want what's best to the game.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO At this point @hmsdragonfly Is in here yelling buff sorcs because being the best dps class and the second best tank class isn't good enough for him. Also nerf Templars.

I've never understood the people that go into other class threads and demand nerfs. Sorcs are ridiculously strong right now, but I don't go into sorc threads talking about how drags proc chance should be lowered or anything like that. I don't care that sorcs are strong. I just don't want my templar to suck.

Haha, on the contrary, I want to nerf sorc. Anything else you would like to add?

Then go to the nerf sorc thread. They received 0 class nerfs while templars were gutted. Go spread the word about how OP sorcs are. Your time will be better spent there than trying to make a bad templar class even worse.

Then make a thread about it, I will join you.
Trying to make Templar bad? By wanting to make I make a thread asking to give Templar back Major Mending or remove Major Mending from warden? By wanting to give non-Templar healers to have a chance to compete with Templar healers for a spot in a raid? By wanting to restore repentence? You have mistaken me with someone else?

@Ron_Burgundy_79 I respect you because you are knowledgeable especially when you actually spend your time on making proper arguments. Even though you more than often just start throwing random personal attacks on me for some reasons and don't even bother explaining your point of view (and I have no idea why, you hate Dragonflies irl?), keep in mind that I will still respect your knowledge and I don't have anything against you. Just want to say that.

1. Because I don't ask for nerfs. I want balance through buffs. I don't want sorcs nerfed. I want templars, nightblades, and dks to be equally strong. I also don't like people taking my things when I receive nothing in return.
2. Dragonflies are big, creepy bugs. Who likes dragonflies?

KCLucky · April 2017

@hmsdragonfly, you're literally making strawman arguments. No one has said that Templar should be the only class able to restore Stamina, heck, no one is even really upset about the Orbs change. It's the point that Repentance is now completely useless. Even on live, it's highly situational. The majority of boss fights don't have enemies dying to be able to Repent. Either you have to sacrifice your 2nd 5 piece to make it work(Engine Guardian/Rkugamz) or not slot it except for on trash. Ele Drain is only needed on 1 enemy in a stack, and it's FREE. In most situations it outperforms Radiant Aura.

In light of the changes, Templars just keep getting piled on with more and more useless skills. Eclipse not being broken free is good, can still be purged though. It's overall not that useful. Radiant Aura/Repentance, I already discussed. Blazing Shield is only useful for 1 specific niche build. Dark Flare can only even be thought about in large groups in PvP. Otherwise, it's too easy to avoid and is useless in PvE. Solar Barrage is absolutely awful. Healing Ritual is absolutely awful.

Templars need some of these skills reworked to be somewhat useful(and provide Major Brut/Sorc!) and brought closer to Sorc/DK in damage potential if homogenization is the goal. Nightblades have it far worse, but nuking most defining skills of the Templar is just overboard.

alexkdd99 · April 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Dk's healing...
ROFL I'm sorry, but I did NOT make my DK's for that purpose. One stam, one magicka, both are supposed to be DPS or tank. I'd rather leave the game then try to heal with them. If healing is your thing, then bless you! I appreciate it. I just don't see how DK's should in any world, be able to heal better than a Templar. Sorcs on the otherhand, that's a little different.I could see that well before DK's.

Thanks for the blessings... I think. Sorrecer healing is doing exceptional well especially in the new world. As a sorcerer healer myself, going to say they are doing exceptional well. Minor adjustments had to be made for substain, but really winning in endurance fights (as everyone adjusts) compared to other healers and some group utility that is hardly used maybe become more popular 10% regain of magicka and major beserk from storm annotach.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

Because templars are the ONLY class with a full skill line that revolves around healing/ support. If a class has a third of its class skills that revolve around 1 role, they SHOULD be the best at that role.

It was zos who decided to make templars the go to healers. If they are wanting to change their mind about templars being the go to healers then they need to also give them more dps usability. But they didn't, all they did was take away.

IcyDeadPeople · April 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Dk's healing...
ROFL I'm sorry, but I did NOT make my DK's for that purpose. One stam, one magicka, both are supposed to be DPS or tank. I'd rather leave the game then try to heal with them. If healing is your thing, then bless you! I appreciate it. I just don't see how DK's should in any world, be able to heal better than a Templar. Sorcs on the otherhand, that's a little different.I could see that well before DK's.

Thanks for the blessings... I think. Sorrecer healing is doing exceptional well especially in the new world. As a sorcerer healer myself, going to say they are doing exceptional well. Minor adjustments had to be made for substain, but really winning in endurance fights (as everyone adjusts) compared to other healers and some group utility that is hardly used maybe become more popular 10% regain of magicka and major beserk from storm annotach.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

Because templars are the ONLY class with a full skill line that revolves around healing/ support. If a class has a third of its class skills that revolve around 1 role, they SHOULD be the best at that role.

It was zos who decided to make templars the go to healers. If they are wanting to change their mind about templars being the go to healers then they need to also give them more dps usability. But they didn't, all they did was take away.

Unless both Trinimac's set and igneous shield ever get massively buffed, I think Templar and Warden will always be the best healers (and both have healing skill line).

FENGRUSH · April 2017

Still dont get all of the replies that dont comment on anything other than 'I make templar to be #1 healer, I not #1 healer anymore'. Says who?

If it turns out after the patch, the templar is still the go-to healer and best at it... then what is this issue? Complaining for the sake of you saw other people complaining and dont actually know how the templar stacks up or performs right now? Because thats a lot of what is going on. Fear and uncertainty generating spam from the masses.

Values are being adjusted on warden - I see the others not competing with templars specialty of healing. And thats not even factoring in the hopes that they revert some changes to templar support. Talking straight healing here. They are the powerhouse. They will remain the powerhouse. If you have evidence otherwise - post it, and make an objective statement.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Dk's healing...
ROFL I'm sorry, but I did NOT make my DK's for that purpose. One stam, one magicka, both are supposed to be DPS or tank. I'd rather leave the game then try to heal with them. If healing is your thing, then bless you! I appreciate it. I just don't see how DK's should in any world, be able to heal better than a Templar. Sorcs on the otherhand, that's a little different.I could see that well before DK's.

Thanks for the blessings... I think. Sorrecer healing is doing exceptional well especially in the new world. As a sorcerer healer myself, going to say they are doing exceptional well. Minor adjustments had to be made for substain, but really winning in endurance fights (as everyone adjusts) compared to other healers and some group utility that is hardly used maybe become more popular 10% regain of magicka and major beserk from storm annotach.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Well, if they make staff count for two slots and give us more support monster set, Non-Templar healers will have to wait for their turn because Templar healers will wear that support monster set first. So they have the support monster set + shard, non-Templar healers only have the support set, so no way they can compete with it.

I agree that all classes should offer something different, but think this way, Shard is like Pierce Armour, making Shard exclusively to Templar is like making Pierce Armour exclusively to DK and tell non-DK tanks to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank. Non-Templar healers need an ability to feed stamina to the group, because it's the job of the healer, else they have no chance to compete with Templar healers. Diversity comes from playstyle, if you play a sorc healer you will find that it's completely different from playing a Templar healer, now give them an ability to feed the group stam so they can compete with Templar healer. Where's the diversity if the only class that is allowed to heal is Templar?

Because templars are the ONLY class with a full skill line that revolves around healing/ support. If a class has a third of its class skills that revolve around 1 role, they SHOULD be the best at that role.

Because posts like the above are inferring they are not the best at the role. They are not actually stating it. They are saying we got nerfed and we should be the best. But even if you still reign best after major mending is slashed - what does that tell you about templar healing in the current environment?