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NDA partial lift - New Healer Meta
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parkham✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »This is why I unsubbed. The fact that the Templar, who has a specialized healing line is getting knocked off the top of the healer food chain is worthy enough of unsubbing.
A class which has a specialized healing line, while the others dont. Should excel in healing over the other classes. And that isn't all. The fact that orbs is now a universal shard that all classes can gain removes the unique flavor of the Templar making them not a top consideration anymore.
Any other argument stating otherwise is invalid.
Consider a stamina and magicka build for each class. Configure and equip each for a healing role. Which one is / will be at the top of the healer food chain?
PC-NA-EST
- All's Faire Guild
- Divine Crusade Guild
- Greybeards & Gals Guild
- Dead Citizens Guild0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭There's some positive talk about new classes of healers... I know it sucks templars, but it was for the better...
Templar seems to be not fairing too bad. There's definitely some anger, but generally it's cooling down and people settle down and realize it's not much different. They still have more power burst healer than warden though less than sorrecer healer. They have very very important purtify and nova along with other skills. Seems like easiest class to use for healing
Sorcerer healers... we really are amazing. I defiantly out powered the scrub warden healers, mind they still don't know what they are doing, yet I am rooting for them for best pet healer. They have better access to minor intellect. (10% regain in magicka), can give major beserk to allies, large healing aoe that stuns area, minor prophecy, three bars options, ... and you know dark exchange. As it should be sorcerer healer has best resource management. .
So why play a Templar? I mean if Sorc healers are so amazing. And they have the best resource management.
It's the easiest class to build a healer still. Takes little thought into as there's already 100s of builds on the subject. Besides that they have strong burst heal, a cleanse that less expensive than purge from alliance war, nova for damage reduction, awesome healing ult. Easier conversion to dps healer hybrids. They make what you would think is good paladins. Sure they aren't the only healing class, but that just gives room for people to their playstytle..
But, but... thinking!?
Sounds painful.2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Buy Trinimac Valor if you are a DK healer. It will be your BiS for PvP healing.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major mending isn't that great and they will still need all those resources to keep shields up. I suppose if it gets so bad they will nerf... but for now how many dragon knights healers are in game? They still don't have a burst heal so there's weakness.
The sensible templar healers aren't noticing much difference, the heals are weaker and everyone is suffering for substain so we need to find a sweet spot, but not really the changes are for the better. More healers are going to be in queue! More diverse gameplay!
I've been surprised at how little this has been said in the past few days. Major Mending is not the be-all-end-all of good endgame healing. If you're doing your job well (and by that I mean both healing well and sustaining well), it's not that necessary.
Major Mending isn't that important for most healing, indeed. I have overhealed on my Templar for a long time anyway, and while it is a gut punch that Wardens get that buff more easily, that change alone will not cripple Templar healing.
It's the changes to Shards and Repentance that screw Templar Healers up.
The builds that suffer from the Major Mending nerf are Templar DPS and tanks. It will nerf self-healing on my magplar and stamplar significantly (notably from Puncturing Sweeps, Radiant Glory, Vigor and Rally), and thus cripple the survivability on a class that has no mobility (Major Expedition) and no offensive self-buffs (Major Sorcerery/Brutality).
There's another post mentioning how there Templar was surving well in battlegrounds area so you likely don't need to worry. It's a major change, but seems like it will be fine.
Shards and reptance change had to happen, unfortunately with all other change they needed to balance other healing classes or dps would of got to reliant on Templar to supplement what people will feel is s lost. The people are still testing the new shards and orbs, buts it's shaping to more teamwork from DPS and less and more skillful play than before. Before it goes on let me mention shards cost significantly less than orbs. In a resource hungry world Templars going to shine. Back on that other point, the stamina returns seems like a buff for stamplars.
Yes it's different, but they are working out bugs and still finding a sweet spot. Zos does need money to eat sweetrolls, but for gameplay they have best interests at heart.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
There's still changes ongoing to wardens so you don't have to worry. They are stalking our posts and we'll make each class lovable it's own way.0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »This is why I unsubbed. The fact that the Templar, who has a specialized healing line is getting knocked off the top of the healer food chain is worthy enough of unsubbing.
A class which has a specialized healing line, while the others dont. Should excel in healing over the other classes. And that isn't all. The fact that orbs is now a universal shard that all classes can gain removes the unique flavor of the Templar making them not a top consideration anymore.
Any other argument stating otherwise is invalid.
Consider a stamina and magicka build for each class. Configure and equip each for a healing role. Which one is / will be at the top of the healer food chain?
With changes to repentance, shards, and undaunted orbs.
I'd argue sorcerers and wardens will be the new top healers. Sorcerers for their crazy good sustain and pet heal (equivalent to breath of life).PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
There's still changes ongoing to wardens so you don't have to worry. They are stalking our posts and we'll make each class lovable it's own way.
I agree. A lot of people have strange conceptions of the warden though and theyve never seen it in action or heard from anyone who has to a full degree especially with all of these wide sweeping changes that impact *all* classes. Apparently its going to be the best at everything and its P2W. Those kind of posts are nauseating to read.4 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »This is why I unsubbed. The fact that the Templar, who has a specialized healing line is getting knocked off the top of the healer food chain is worthy enough of unsubbing.
A class which has a specialized healing line, while the others dont. Should excel in healing over the other classes. And that isn't all. The fact that orbs is now a universal shard that all classes can gain removes the unique flavor of the Templar making them not a top consideration anymore.
Any other argument stating otherwise is invalid.
Consider a stamina and magicka build for each class. Configure and equip each for a healing role. Which one is / will be at the top of the healer food chain?
With changes to repentance, shards, and undaunted orbs.
I'd argue sorcerers and wardens will be the new top healers. Sorcerers for their crazy good sustain and pet heal (equivalent to breath of life).
Templars will still be easier class to heal. It takes more mirco magement to keep bird alive. This is amazing an added complication for new healers. Experience player may enjoy pet heals or pet lovers, but defacto Healer I believe will be Templar while others picking the other 4 for playstle or sheer curiosity.1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
There's still changes ongoing to wardens so you don't have to worry. They are stalking our posts and we'll make each class lovable it's own way.
I agree. A lot of people have strange conceptions of the warden though and theyve never seen it in action or heard from anyone who has to a full degree especially with all of these wide sweeping changes that impact *all* classes. Apparently its going to be the best at everything and its P2W. Those kind of posts are nauseating to read.
You guys are really starting to honk me off. It is midnight here and I can't sleep. One of the few joys I have in my small petty world is internet rage and over reaction.
So could you please stop being so polite and having a normal conversation about things. If that is to much to ask could you at least end your post with, you suck! Or maybe Git Gud!6 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
There's still changes ongoing to wardens so you don't have to worry. They are stalking our posts and we'll make each class lovable it's own way.
I agree. A lot of people have strange conceptions of the warden though and theyve never seen it in action or heard from anyone who has to a full degree especially with all of these wide sweeping changes that impact *all* classes. Apparently its going to be the best at everything and its P2W. Those kind of posts are nauseating to read.
I would look at pts Monday notes when they come out. All classes have their place still. Zos does care.1 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
The major mending granted from the Restoration Heavy attack simply is too inefficient to be of any kind of must have benefit. The duration is too low, and I've always considered it a bad mechanic all the way around. It is not an example of good design.
I believe Wardens and DK'S have the best implementation of major mending which is still somewhat balanced. It last several seconds at max. With wardens it only takes effect when allies are really half, so people who overheal a lot aren't utilizing the benefit and wasting resources by doing so.
I'm opposed to the Igneous Shield changes. However, prior to that how DK'S acquired major mending was relatively balanced. It didn't last long, and you had to consume resources fairly quickly to have 100% uptime on the buff.
Here's the issue FENG. Wardens are getting access to Major Mending via passives.austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
-It doesn't require a resto staff
-It doesn't require spending magicka on a prior skill in order to gain the buff before throwing out heals. It's very efficient in terms of resources.
-It synergizes very well with 'HOT's'
Templars
-Have to spend Magicka on the ritual in order to gain 100% uptime MINOR mending (down from major) before they start casting their heals
-Templars have to run Restoration Staff in order to gain access to Major Mending now. Everyone ran Restoration Staff anyway on a Templar, at the minimum of being on a backbar. However, now it's essentially being forced. Also, the Major Mending granted from Resto Heavy Attack is so inefficient and clunky to use because of the the nature of heavy attacks themselves. The Warden doesn't have to deal with this headache, at all, as they aren't even required to run a restoration staff in order to maximize their self buff potential.
GinaBruno stated that the goal was to eliminate 100% uptime.
They achieved this with the DK Igneous Shield change, even though I believe it's a bad change. But, they still allowed for Major Mending to remain.
Now comes the Templars. What they did to Templar had absolutely nothing to do with their intended goals. It was a flat out removal, not a reduction in up-time. There is no finer example of overkill.
Why should DK's have access to Major Mending (whom don't even possess a dedicated healing class skill line), but Templars shouldn't? It's not sensical, at all. Templars give up a lot of tanking potential and DPS potential by having a 3rd skill line dedicated to healing. If the healing line did not exist, I cannot fathom what interesting toys templars would possess. However, we do have that healing line, and templars shouldn't be punished for it.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
There's still changes ongoing to wardens so you don't have to worry. They are stalking our posts and we'll make each class lovable it's own way.
I agree. A lot of people have strange conceptions of the warden though and theyve never seen it in action or heard from anyone who has to a full degree especially with all of these wide sweeping changes that impact *all* classes. Apparently its going to be the best at everything and its P2W. Those kind of posts are nauseating to read.
I would look at pts Monday notes when they come out. All classes have their place still. Zos does care.
Looking at past PTS cycles, I wouldn't expect any feedback to make it into the first patch. Maybe the one after that.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
The major mending granted from the Restoration Heavy attack simply is too inefficient to be of any kind of must have benefit. The duration is too low, and I've always considered it a bad mechanic all the way around. It is not an example of good design.
I believe Wardens and DK'S have the best implementation of major mending which is still somewhat balanced. It last several seconds at max. With wardens it only takes effect when allies are really half, so people who overheal a lot aren't utilizing the benefit and wasting resources by doing so.
I'm opposed to the Igneous Shield changes. However, prior to that how DK'S acquired major mending was relatively balanced. It didn't last long, and you had to consume resources fairly quickly to have 100% uptime on the buff.
Here's the issue FENG. Wardens are getting access to Major Mending via passives.austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
-It doesn't require a resto staff
-It doesn't require spending magicka on a prior skill in order to gain the buff before throwing out heals. It's very efficient in terms of resources.
-It synergizes very well with 'HOT's'
Templars
-Have to spend Magicka on the ritual in order to gain 100% uptime MINOR mending (down from major) before they start casting their heals
-Templars have to run Restoration Staff in order to gain access to Major Mending now. Everyone ran Restoration Staff anyway on a Templar, at the minimum of being on a backbar. However, now it's essentially being forced. Also, the Major Mending granted from Resto Heavy Attack is so inefficient and clunky to use because of the the nature of heavy attacks themselves. The Warden doesn't have to deal with this headache, at all, as they aren't even required to run a restoration staff in order to maximize their self buff potential.
GinaBruno stated that the goal was to eliminate 100% uptime.
They achieved this with the DK Igneous Shield change, even though I believe it's a bad change. But, they still allowed for Major Mending to remain.
Now comes the Templars. What they did to Templar had absolutely nothing to do with their intended goals. It was a flat out removal, not a reduction in up-time. There is no finer example of overkill.
Why should DK's have access to Major Mending (whom don't even possess a dedicated healing class skill line), but Templars shouldn't? It's not sensical, at all. Templars give up a lot of tanking potential and DPS potential by having a 3rd skill line dedicated to healing. If the healing line did not exist, I cannot fathom what interesting toys templars would possess. However, we do have that healing line, and templars shouldn't be punished for it.
The issues with warden class are being looked at. Just wait till Monday.
I agree dragon knights maybe should have minor mending too. It lasts like 3 secs considering damge in take. It's really insignificant. But take it back there's a lot of skills in each class that can be used for support ( healers). It's all about playstle.
They are likely allowing numbers to grow for all five healing classes going to allow then put anything in check if it grows to far.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
There's still changes ongoing to wardens so you don't have to worry. They are stalking our posts and we'll make each class lovable it's own way.
I agree. A lot of people have strange conceptions of the warden though and theyve never seen it in action or heard from anyone who has to a full degree especially with all of these wide sweeping changes that impact *all* classes. Apparently its going to be the best at everything and its P2W. Those kind of posts are nauseating to read.
I would look at pts Monday notes when they come out. All classes have their place still. Zos does care.
Looking at past PTS cycles, I wouldn't expect any feedback to make it into the first patch. Maybe the one after that.
They are being responsive and aware of issues better than usual. Things are being looked . Something are still you know nda, so I will just say they do care about the perception that is occurring, or why would they let some us free with partial nda release.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »This is why I unsubbed. The fact that the Templar, who has a specialized healing line is getting knocked off the top of the healer food chain is worthy enough of unsubbing.
A class which has a specialized healing line, while the others dont. Should excel in healing over the other classes. And that isn't all. The fact that orbs is now a universal shard that all classes can gain removes the unique flavor of the Templar making them not a top consideration anymore.
Any other argument stating otherwise is invalid.
Consider a stamina and magicka build for each class. Configure and equip each for a healing role. Which one is / will be at the top of the healer food chain?
With changes to repentance, shards, and undaunted orbs.
I'd argue sorcerers and wardens will be the new top healers. Sorcerers for their crazy good sustain and pet heal (equivalent to breath of life).
Maybe for vet dungeons, but for vet trials, sorc healers will still be the worst class for it. All they can offer to the group is a oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar, Templar healers offer so much more: AOE minor magickasteal, minor sorcery to the group, backlash debuff, a nice burst heal, nice AOE HoT, high minor mending uptime (meaning highest SPC uptime, all raids will need at least a Templar wearing SPC)
As for Warden's major mending: I can completely agree that Warden's MM uptime has to be lower than DK's MM uptime, or replace it will minor mending .Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
The major mending granted from the Restoration Heavy attack simply is too inefficient to be of any kind of must have benefit. The duration is too low, and I've always considered it a bad mechanic all the way around. It is not an example of good design.
I believe Wardens and DK'S have the best implementation of major mending which is still somewhat balanced. It last several seconds at max. With wardens it only takes effect when allies are really half, so people who overheal a lot aren't utilizing the benefit and wasting resources by doing so.
I'm opposed to the Igneous Shield changes. However, prior to that how DK'S acquired major mending was relatively balanced. It didn't last long, and you had to consume resources fairly quickly to have 100% uptime on the buff.
Here's the issue FENG. Wardens are getting access to Major Mending via passives.austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
-It doesn't require a resto staff
-It doesn't require spending magicka on a prior skill in order to gain the buff before throwing out heals. It's very efficient in terms of resources.
-It synergizes very well with 'HOT's'
Templars
-Have to spend Magicka on the ritual in order to gain 100% uptime MINOR mending (down from major) before they start casting their heals
-Templars have to run Restoration Staff in order to gain access to Major Mending now. Everyone ran Restoration Staff anyway on a Templar, at the minimum of being on a backbar. However, now it's essentially being forced. Also, the Major Mending granted from Resto Heavy Attack is so inefficient and clunky to use because of the the nature of heavy attacks themselves. The Warden doesn't have to deal with this headache, at all, as they aren't even required to run a restoration staff in order to maximize their self buff potential.
GinaBruno stated that the goal was to eliminate 100% uptime.
They achieved this with the DK Igneous Shield change, even though I believe it's a bad change. But, they still allowed for Major Mending to remain.
Now comes the Templars. What they did to Templar had absolutely nothing to do with their intended goals. It was a flat out removal, not a reduction in up-time. There is no finer example of overkill.
Why should DK's have access to Major Mending (whom don't even possess a dedicated healing class skill line), but Templars shouldn't? It's not sensical, at all. Templars give up a lot of tanking potential and DPS potential by having a 3rd skill line dedicated to healing. If the healing line did not exist, I cannot fathom what interesting toys templars would possess. However, we do have that healing line, and templars shouldn't be punished for it.
Youre assuming templars need major mending to heal. The reality is - with major mending, other healing doesnt compare to templars. Its that strong.
Youre saying they need major mending access in the skill line because it has a healing tree. Yet the warden doesnt have access to minor mending - the flipside argument could really be made. People are going a bit out of control over things they havent even felt out. Templars are fine as far as healing goes - they still are the best at what they do in the healing department. Others can actually show up to heal too is the difference they are trying to make. Unchanged, no one else competes with templar, period. I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.4 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »This is why I unsubbed. The fact that the Templar, who has a specialized healing line is getting knocked off the top of the healer food chain is worthy enough of unsubbing.
A class which has a specialized healing line, while the others dont. Should excel in healing over the other classes. And that isn't all. The fact that orbs is now a universal shard that all classes can gain removes the unique flavor of the Templar making them not a top consideration anymore.
Any other argument stating otherwise is invalid.
Consider a stamina and magicka build for each class. Configure and equip each for a healing role. Which one is / will be at the top of the healer food chain?
With changes to repentance, shards, and undaunted orbs.
I'd argue sorcerers and wardens will be the new top healers. Sorcerers for their crazy good sustain and pet heal (equivalent to breath of life).
Maybe for vet dungeons, but for vet trials, sorc healers will still be the worst class for it. All they can offer to the group is a oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar, Templar healers offer so much more: AOE minor magickasteal, minor sorcery to the group, backlash debuff, a nice burst heal, nice AOE HoT, high minor mending uptime (meaning highest SPC uptime, all raids will need at least a Templar wearing SPC)
As for Warden's major mending: I can completely agree that Warden's MM uptime has to be lower than DK's MM uptime, or replace it will minor mending .
There's actually the option of 15 slots for sorc Healer. They offer major beseark, minor pophecy, large so healing ult that negate some things, better endurance with wards though less in things like Starfall, pet gives bonus for using it. They ate also one of two classes with minor intellect. But let me not go on each class has something to offer in Healing.
It certainly hurts Templar won't have that skill they were know, but I think there's open field for Healers come Morrowind.I just waiting to see what others come up with.
If you are interested here a long guild of sorts to sorrecer Healing
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dark-priestess-pug-proof/
It has it's perks and weakness like all other classes.0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leaderboard is out of my league, i am still progressing to try get a clear.
meta shift is one thing i don't mind.
but:
1. are the player characters (4 current classes) all weakened across the board?
2. will the difficulty of end game pve content (mob damage mob hp etc) be adjusted with the players new power level?
The weakness in four man content isn't noticeable much if you make adjustments. First you better have undaunted command passive this restores 8% of max magicka, stamina, and health ever 20 secs (between 2 synergies). You will have to use orbs or shards. Might need a regain glyphs or reduce cost along with a resource enchant on weapon, but overall I personally feel and seen it's not much different for those people who work together well in teams in undaunted dungeons. .
Yeah..... do you know how long it takes to get undaunted levels if you can't get a group, or you can't get a group that can clear normal content let alone vet content? I don't play meta minmaxer characters so this game has never been "too easy" it is Just Challenging Enough. Needing that passive in order to do content is like telling me I need to go to a website to learn how to use the internet.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
The major mending granted from the Restoration Heavy attack simply is too inefficient to be of any kind of must have benefit. The duration is too low, and I've always considered it a bad mechanic all the way around. It is not an example of good design.
I believe Wardens and DK'S have the best implementation of major mending which is still somewhat balanced. It last several seconds at max. With wardens it only takes effect when allies are really half, so people who overheal a lot aren't utilizing the benefit and wasting resources by doing so.
I'm opposed to the Igneous Shield changes. However, prior to that how DK'S acquired major mending was relatively balanced. It didn't last long, and you had to consume resources fairly quickly to have 100% uptime on the buff.
Here's the issue FENG. Wardens are getting access to Major Mending via passives.austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
-It doesn't require a resto staff
-It doesn't require spending magicka on a prior skill in order to gain the buff before throwing out heals. It's very efficient in terms of resources.
-It synergizes very well with 'HOT's'
Templars
-Have to spend Magicka on the ritual in order to gain 100% uptime MINOR mending (down from major) before they start casting their heals
-Templars have to run Restoration Staff in order to gain access to Major Mending now. Everyone ran Restoration Staff anyway on a Templar, at the minimum of being on a backbar. However, now it's essentially being forced. Also, the Major Mending granted from Resto Heavy Attack is so inefficient and clunky to use because of the the nature of heavy attacks themselves. The Warden doesn't have to deal with this headache, at all, as they aren't even required to run a restoration staff in order to maximize their self buff potential.
GinaBruno stated that the goal was to eliminate 100% uptime.
They achieved this with the DK Igneous Shield change, even though I believe it's a bad change. But, they still allowed for Major Mending to remain.
Now comes the Templars. What they did to Templar had absolutely nothing to do with their intended goals. It was a flat out removal, not a reduction in up-time. There is no finer example of overkill.
Why should DK's have access to Major Mending (whom don't even possess a dedicated healing class skill line), but Templars shouldn't? It's not sensical, at all. Templars give up a lot of tanking potential and DPS potential by having a 3rd skill line dedicated to healing. If the healing line did not exist, I cannot fathom what interesting toys templars would possess. However, we do have that healing line, and templars shouldn't be punished for it.
Youre assuming templars need major mending to heal. The reality is - with major mending, other healing doesnt compare to templars. Its that strong.
Youre saying they need major mending access in the skill line because it has a healing tree. Yet the warden doesnt have access to minor mending - the flipside argument could really be made. People are going a bit out of control over things they havent even felt out. Templars are fine as far as healing goes - they still are the best at what they do in the healing department. Others can actually show up to heal too is the difference they are trying to make. Unchanged, no one else competes with templar, period. I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.
Not really. I'm making the argument that they should have major mending. I watch your stream, I've seen you complain about templars and their health going from zilch to full in one cast. But due to the fast paced nature of the game, and how fast damage accumulates. It needs to be that way.
The templar lacks so many things that the potency of their heals is intended to make up for it. That's why they lack Crowd Control. That's why they lack mobility.
This change on top of the Shards/Repentance is simply unnecessary.
I can find agreement with the BoL directional changes. You should have to be facing your target in order for it to work.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire3 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leaderboard is out of my league, i am still progressing to try get a clear.
meta shift is one thing i don't mind.
but:
1. are the player characters (4 current classes) all weakened across the board?
2. will the difficulty of end game pve content (mob damage mob hp etc) be adjusted with the players new power level?
The weakness in four man content isn't noticeable much if you make adjustments. First you better have undaunted command passive this restores 8% of max magicka, stamina, and health ever 20 secs (between 2 synergies). You will have to use orbs or shards. Might need a regain glyphs or reduce cost along with a resource enchant on weapon, but overall I personally feel and seen it's not much different for those people who work together well in teams in undaunted dungeons. .
Yeah..... do you know how long it takes to get undaunted levels if you can't get a group, or you can't get a group that can clear normal content let alone vet content? I don't play meta minmaxer characters so this game has never been "too easy" it is Just Challenging Enough. Needing that passive in order to do content is like telling me I need to go to a website to learn how to use the internet.
It's not that bad, the changes to champion points means less discrimination in Pledges. Though if you want to cheat just Respec on a day you are off and be a basic tank or healer and do normal dungeons. Either way you still have orbs, potions, glyphs ... About 10 ways to substain. It's truly not bad, now you have more options...And middle class players can play in dungeons and not be afraid or chasted. It will be fun.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
The major mending granted from the Restoration Heavy attack simply is too inefficient to be of any kind of must have benefit. The duration is too low, and I've always considered it a bad mechanic all the way around. It is not an example of good design.
I believe Wardens and DK'S have the best implementation of major mending which is still somewhat balanced. It last several seconds at max. With wardens it only takes effect when allies are really half, so people who overheal a lot aren't utilizing the benefit and wasting resources by doing so.
I'm opposed to the Igneous Shield changes. However, prior to that how DK'S acquired major mending was relatively balanced. It didn't last long, and you had to consume resources fairly quickly to have 100% uptime on the buff.
Here's the issue FENG. Wardens are getting access to Major Mending via passives.austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
-It doesn't require a resto staff
-It doesn't require spending magicka on a prior skill in order to gain the buff before throwing out heals. It's very efficient in terms of resources.
-It synergizes very well with 'HOT's'
Templars
-Have to spend Magicka on the ritual in order to gain 100% uptime MINOR mending (down from major) before they start casting their heals
-Templars have to run Restoration Staff in order to gain access to Major Mending now. Everyone ran Restoration Staff anyway on a Templar, at the minimum of being on a backbar. However, now it's essentially being forced. Also, the Major Mending granted from Resto Heavy Attack is so inefficient and clunky to use because of the the nature of heavy attacks themselves. The Warden doesn't have to deal with this headache, at all, as they aren't even required to run a restoration staff in order to maximize their self buff potential.
GinaBruno stated that the goal was to eliminate 100% uptime.
They achieved this with the DK Igneous Shield change, even though I believe it's a bad change. But, they still allowed for Major Mending to remain.
Now comes the Templars. What they did to Templar had absolutely nothing to do with their intended goals. It was a flat out removal, not a reduction in up-time. There is no finer example of overkill.
Why should DK's have access to Major Mending (whom don't even possess a dedicated healing class skill line), but Templars shouldn't? It's not sensical, at all. Templars give up a lot of tanking potential and DPS potential by having a 3rd skill line dedicated to healing. If the healing line did not exist, I cannot fathom what interesting toys templars would possess. However, we do have that healing line, and templars shouldn't be punished for it.
Youre assuming templars need major mending to heal. The reality is - with major mending, other healing doesnt compare to templars. Its that strong.
Youre saying they need major mending access in the skill line because it has a healing tree. Yet the warden doesnt have access to minor mending - the flipside argument could really be made. People are going a bit out of control over things they havent even felt out. Templars are fine as far as healing goes - they still are the best at what they do in the healing department. Others can actually show up to heal too is the difference they are trying to make. Unchanged, no one else competes with templar, period. I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.
Not really. I'm making the argument that they should have major mending. I watch your stream, I've seen you complain about templars and their health going from zilch to full in one cast. But due to the fast paced nature of the game, and how fast damage accumulates. It needs to be that way.
The templar lacks so many things that the potency of their heals is intended to make up for it. That's why they lack Crowd Control. That's why they lack mobility.
This change on top of the Shards/Repentance is simply unnecessary.
I can find agreement with the BoL directional changes. You should have to be facing your target in order for it to work.
It does sound bad, but there are reports of Templar still be very strong in battlegrounds.
I know it's hard to see, but changes to reptance and shards where needed for more balanced gameplay. It was be too dominating...And we are aware of it. Besides the limations it brought to other healers, it would of ruined the plans for substain. We have to think more instead of brute Force. In the long run this we'll be better gameplay.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I Just hope they do something with repent. And Don't leave it stupid like it is.0 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭
Templars will still be easier class to heal. It takes more mirco magement to keep bird alive. This is amazing an added complication for new healers. Experience player may enjoy pet heals or pet lovers, but defacto Healer I believe will be Templar while others picking the other 4 for playstle or sheer curiosity.
I don't need an "easy class" to heal with. I need an efficient, functioning, versatile and interesting one. And until I read these patch notes I certainly thought I had one.
You talk about templar healers in a very condescending way. I've played a templar healer for 3 years and gone through several patches and changes with that character. I am a very good healer, capable of the most difficult content the game has to offer (and with decent scores even). I am not a good healer because "templar is easy". I'm good because I've practiced and played, tested different stuff, learned to know my class playing also different roles with it etc. And most of all because all this time I have mainly healed though, I'm extremely familiar with the role by now.
There are countless great healers like me. We didn't pick up templar because "it's easy". We picked the class because it has a full skill-line dedicated to healing. That kinda gives a hint how healing might be something the class is good at, yes? Or at least it should be.
Also, if all these changes go live, middle-class players will have great difficulties even completing vet dungeons. It will just be slower and more tedious for us "end-game players" or whatever you want to call us. But for less optimized groups and players, it will be very difficult. I remember how difficult dungeons were when the game first came out and none of us was good at playing.
Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 6:56AM6 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
The major mending granted from the Restoration Heavy attack simply is too inefficient to be of any kind of must have benefit. The duration is too low, and I've always considered it a bad mechanic all the way around. It is not an example of good design.
I believe Wardens and DK'S have the best implementation of major mending which is still somewhat balanced. It last several seconds at max. With wardens it only takes effect when allies are really half, so people who overheal a lot aren't utilizing the benefit and wasting resources by doing so.
I'm opposed to the Igneous Shield changes. However, prior to that how DK'S acquired major mending was relatively balanced. It didn't last long, and you had to consume resources fairly quickly to have 100% uptime on the buff.
Here's the issue FENG. Wardens are getting access to Major Mending via passives.austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »They need to relook the shards and repent nerfs. If they want to change how resources are returned (over time, less extreme, more flat values) then do it. Shards shouldnt be replaced with an undaunted skill anyone can run. It already lost its stun - and it should get it back. This is just ripping a skill into a bad place.
Repent is unique and always was. Rethink the design - this nerf comes more from PVE than PVP. It shouldnt suddenly become a heal-only for group play. Its used *after mobs/players are dead*. Its use as a heal is limited and counter productive in most cases for its design.
Ive made a DK healer build for current live - its really good. Its just outshined by having at least a 3rd templar in group play because theyre that good. Only reason I liked having a sorc is the negate option on them while healing - but they definitely can heal. The pet isnt as reliable Id say, and can easily be disabled (twilight in negate is out of action for the duration).
Thats my thoughts. Templar still has the burst heals. It shouldnt ever lose that identity.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I concur with you regarding shards and repentance. However, considering that Templars are 1 out of 2 classes with a dedicated class based healing skill line, Templars deserve to maintain some form of Major Mending that doesn't require a Restoration Staff I can concur with ZOS that 100% uptime is a bit much. But completely removing major mending access from Templars is beyond overkill. It's down-right insane.
Not sure about that (mending part) - they will have mending. Something warden wont be able to access at all, ever. Templars with resto can have full time mending with part time major. Its kind of like when stam sorcs lost major expedition but we gained minor. I wasnt happy at first - I stopped using my old pots though, used major expedition pots with minor expedition and I lost part of something I got out of pots, but gained something else.
All in all, they dont want full uptime on it - and using heavy on resto isnt a bad thing *at all*. Its a nice animation, amazing magicka restore. Youre likely to see a more beefy templar utilize that in PvP now already. In PVE, they can output a higher healing having both now.
Wardens uptime needs to be cut back though - its numbers are not something Im happy with either. I dont want to replace one broken healing concept with another.
-It doesn't require a resto staff
-It doesn't require spending magicka on a prior skill in order to gain the buff before throwing out heals. It's very efficient in terms of resources.
-It synergizes very well with 'HOT's'
Templars
-Have to spend Magicka on the ritual in order to gain 100% uptime MINOR mending (down from major) before they start casting their heals
-Templars have to run Restoration Staff in order to gain access to Major Mending now. Everyone ran Restoration Staff anyway on a Templar, at the minimum of being on a backbar. However, now it's essentially being forced. Also, the Major Mending granted from Resto Heavy Attack is so inefficient and clunky to use because of the the nature of heavy attacks themselves. The Warden doesn't have to deal with this headache, at all, as they aren't even required to run a restoration staff in order to maximize their self buff potential.
GinaBruno stated that the goal was to eliminate 100% uptime.
They achieved this with the DK Igneous Shield change, even though I believe it's a bad change. But, they still allowed for Major Mending to remain.
Now comes the Templars. What they did to Templar had absolutely nothing to do with their intended goals. It was a flat out removal, not a reduction in up-time. There is no finer example of overkill.
Why should DK's have access to Major Mending (whom don't even possess a dedicated healing class skill line), but Templars shouldn't? It's not sensical, at all. Templars give up a lot of tanking potential and DPS potential by having a 3rd skill line dedicated to healing. If the healing line did not exist, I cannot fathom what interesting toys templars would possess. However, we do have that healing line, and templars shouldn't be punished for it.
Youre assuming templars need major mending to heal. The reality is - with major mending, other healing doesnt compare to templars. Its that strong.
Youre saying they need major mending access in the skill line because it has a healing tree. Yet the warden doesnt have access to minor mending - the flipside argument could really be made. People are going a bit out of control over things they havent even felt out. Templars are fine as far as healing goes - they still are the best at what they do in the healing department. Others can actually show up to heal too is the difference they are trying to make. Unchanged, no one else competes with templar, period. I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.
Not really. I'm making the argument that they should have major mending. I watch your stream, I've seen you complain about templars and their health going from zilch to full in one cast. But due to the fast paced nature of the game, and how fast damage accumulates. It needs to be that way.
The templar lacks so many things that the potency of their heals is intended to make up for it. That's why they lack Crowd Control. That's why they lack mobility.
This change on top of the Shards/Repentance is simply unnecessary.
I can find agreement with the BoL directional changes. You should have to be facing your target in order for it to work.
Well said! You know what you're talking about.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »
Templars will still be easier class to heal. It takes more mirco magement to keep bird alive. This is amazing an added complication for new healers. Experience player may enjoy pet heals or pet lovers, but defacto Healer I believe will be Templar while others picking the other 4 for playstle or sheer curiosity.
I don't need an "easy class" to heal with. I need an efficient, functioning, versatile and interesting one. And until I read these patch notes I certainly thought I had one.
You talk about templar healers in a very condescending way. I've played a templar healer for 3 years and gone through several patches and changes with that character. I am a very good healer, capable of the most difficult content the game has to offer (and with decent scores even). I am not a good healer because "templar is easy". I'm good because I've practiced and played, tested different stuff, learned to know my class playing also different roles with it etc. And most of all because all this time I have mainly healed though, I'm extremely familiar with the role by now.
There are countless great healers like me. We didn't pick up templar because "it's easy". We picked the class because it has a full skill-line dedicated to healing. That kinda gives a hint how healing might be something the class is good at, yes? Or at least it should be.
This skill line isn't the only class to have one. Dragon knights have healing and support of skills along with support skills that no other class has, but so do each other class. It's just the templar did have it first and had it best for awhile.
It's still amazing class to heal with and likely to still be first pick for healers, even if I don't wish it
, but I agree some things need to be looked at but it's elder scrolls so a lot of certainly believe this play as you want philsophy. Really sucks for development as the try t make every class competitive at healing, tanking, and DPS. 0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this
LF healer Templar only.
There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.
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