hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

If normalization and homogenization are the goals for ESO ("Every class is everything!), why have classes at all?

Every class is everything? Nah. Every class can fill in every role, but the playstyle is always different. Playing a Templar DPS is a different experience from playing a Sorc DPS. Simple as that.

Class is just a combination of abilities, you choose a group of abilities that fit your playstyle, that's all.

Yup, just like a typical MMO.

But I digress. Don't want to get too off-topic. My apologies.

Cadbury wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

If normalization and homogenization are the goals for ESO ("Every class is everything!), why have classes at all?

Every class is everything? Nah. Every class can fill in every role, but the playstyle is always different. Playing a Templar DPS is a different experience from playing a Sorc DPS. Simple as that.

Class is just a combination of abilities, you choose a group of abilities that fit your playstyle, that's all.

Yup, just like a typical MMO.

But I digress. Don't want to get too off-topic. My apologies.

I think in other MMOs, there are dedicated healer classes that can only heal, here in ESO a Templar can tank/DPS/Heal.

Well yeah, somewhat like 60/70% TES and 30/40% MMO.

It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait.]

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Classes can function outside of their skill lines primarily, sometimes entirely. I have a summoner skill line on my stam sorc - I dont use it for anything. Nightblades have assassin skill lines, they sometimes go full tank or heal (which they cant do all that well, but not terribly). Just because there is a skill line in there doesnt mean they are the de facto role for that and all others should pale in comparison.

All I'm trying to say is that if a class has an entire skill line dedicated to a role, then that class should be better at that role than the other classes.

Templar will still be better at the role than other classes - nobody can burst heal like a templar. Warden have a skill line dedicated to healing too so, it kind of matches your line of thought really on this. They will functionally operate differently - and Im not advocating for things to go as they are now. Templars healing in its current form will outshine warden just as it has outshined any other class for healing.

Fuxo wrote: »

Warden has got most major buffs and debuffs available in the game and they apply to multiple targets. They are the most versatile class of all. Any group will request a warden in any content. They don't need to compete with templar healers.

Do you think trial groups will drop templars, or run all wardens?

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Classes can function outside of their skill lines primarily, sometimes entirely. I have a summoner skill line on my stam sorc - I dont use it for anything. Nightblades have assassin skill lines, they sometimes go full tank or heal (which they cant do all that well, but not terribly). Just because there is a skill line in there doesnt mean they are the de facto role for that and all others should pale in comparison.

All I'm trying to say is that if a class has an entire skill line dedicated to a role, then that class should be better at that role than the other classes.

Templar will still be better at the role than other classes - nobody can burst heal like a templar. Warden have a skill line dedicated to healing too so, it kind of matches your line of thought really on this. They will functionally operate differently - and Im not advocating for things to go as they are now. Templars healing in its current form will outshine warden just as it has outshined any other class for healing.

Fuxo wrote: »

Warden has got most major buffs and debuffs available in the game and they apply to multiple targets. They are the most versatile class of all. Any group will request a warden in any content. They don't need to compete with templar healers.

Do you think trial groups will drop templars, or run all wardens?

Personally, I don't think the healing is the biggest issue. The massive nerfs to templar support skills hurt much worse than the change from major mending to minor mending.

I would like access to major mending in someway. Alcast suggested making restoring focus give major mending while channelled will give magic sustain. I think that's a solid idea that will buff stamplars and still give magplars access to major mending.

Well Im on board with the support skill lines and spent hours the last 2 streams talking about that very thing. Uploaded videos. Im posting about healing in regards to the major mending in the thread title here. Templars healing is one issue - their support and other offensive skill options/mobility is something else. If you bring them all in its difficult to strike at an issue.

Templars current gameplay with BOL spam is bad for the game. Nothing can compete with it.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait.]

Oh wait, you have already lost your argument.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait.]

Oh wait, you have already lost your argument.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

What argument? I was having a discussion with someone else. Here's some of my many thoughts on the Templar class. Most will be magic based as it is my main. I have a stamplar, but unlike many in the forums I will refrain from commenting on topics that I am not well versed. I apologize ahead of time as I am typing this out on my phone and there will likely be some grammatical errors.

1. Templars have the worst passives of all the classes. You could argue DK is worse now to the massive battle roar and helping hands nerf. Templars best passive was major mending. Prior to major mending being implemented, Templars had a straight 30% bonus to healing in our passives. Templars also had a passive a long time ago that restored a certain percentage of max magicka every time we used a skill. All of these passives have now been nerfed/removed.
2. Templars are forced to slot multiple skills to gain what other classes already have as passives (repentance gives 10% boost to recovery).
3. Templars have an entire skill line dedicated to healing/support that has been gutted by the current patch notes.
4. Templars don't have a reliable cc. Blinding flashes was removed. Blazing spear doesn't stun anymore. Luminous shards is a disorient which is terrible for a class relying on dots to buff (entropy/reflective light)
5. Templars don't have access to major sorcery or major savagery through class skills or passives.
6. Templars best defensive skill, extended ritual, recieved a huge cost increase when purifying ritual was changed to ritual of retribution. Extended ritual was then given purifying's removal if 5 negative effects after Templars flooded the forums with rage.
7. Templar ultimates are terrible. Rememberance is ok in PvP, nova has it's uses in PVE, and crescent sweep is alright for stamplars. The problem with all of these ultis is that they are second rate ultis compared to those that other classes/skill lines have.
8. Our dps spammable, puncturing sweeps, used to provide a significant hot. That hot has been nerfed multiple times (can't double crit + affected by battle spirit) and is now being hit again with nerf to major mending.
9. Healing ritual is terrible. No one uses it. It's designed to be our AOE heal but the cast time makes it horrible.
10. Dark flare is our hardest hitting ability. It has a cast time and a ridiculous travel time. It's early dodgeable and interruptible. It's suicide to use against anyone that know what he or she is doing.
11. Solar barrage might be the most worthless skill in the game. Hell, most people don't even know what it is.
12. Radiant destruction has been nerfed multiple times making radiant glory absolutely useless.
13. Our class shield scales off of max health. It's worthless to anyone other than a full max health build.
14. Toppling charge has been broken for years. It rarely works, it's dodgeable, and at least 25% of the time the casting templar becomes stuck in the animation.

I know there's plenty that I've missed, but that's the best I can do while at work. Feel free to dissect these points.

@utb99 @Joy_Division are 2 of the most knowledgeable Templars that I know. They have essentially stopped posting because our opinions clearly are worth little to ZOS. Maybe this post will entice them to participate in this thread.

cc: @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait.

Oh wait, you have already lost your argument.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

What argument? I was having a discussion with someone else. Here's some of my many thoughts on the Templar class. Most will be magic based as it is my main. I have a stamplar, but unlike many in the forums I will refrain from commenting on topics that I am not well versed. I apologize ahead of time as I am typing this out on my phone and there will likely be some grammatical errors.

1. Templars have the worst passives of all the classes. You could argue DK is worse now to the massive battle roar and helping hands nerf. Templars best passive was major mending. Prior to major mending being implemented, Templars had a straight 30% bonus to healing in our passives. Templars also had a passive a long time ago that restored a certain percentage of max magicka every time we used a skill. All of these passives have now been nerfed/removed.
2. Templars are forced to slot multiple skills to gain what other classes already have as passives (repentance gives 10% boost to recovery).
3. Templars have an entire skill line dedicated to healing/support that has been gutted by the current patch notes.
4. Templars don't have a reliable cc. Blinding flashes was removed. Blazing spear doesn't stun anymore. Luminous shards is a disorient which is terrible for a class relying on dots to buff (entropy/reflective light)
5. Templars don't have access to major sorcery or major savagery through class skills or passives.
6. Templars best defensive skill, extended ritual, recieved a huge cost increase when purifying ritual was changed to ritual of retribution. Extended ritual was then given purifying's removal if 5 negative effects after Templars flooded the forums with rage.
7. Templar ultimates are terrible. Rememberance is ok in PvP, nova has it's uses in PVE, and crescent sweep is alright for stamplars. The problem with all of these ultis is that they are second rate ultis compared to those that other classes/skill lines have.
8. Our dps spammable, puncturing sweeps, used to provide a significant hot. That hot has been nerfed multiple times (can't double crit + affected by battle spirit) and is now being hit again with nerf to major mending.
9. Healing ritual is terrible. No one uses it. It's designed to be our AOE heal but the cast time makes it horrible.
10. Dark flare is our hardest hitting ability. It has a cast time and a ridiculous travel time. It's early dodgeable and interruptible. It's suicide to use against anyone that know what he or she is doing.
11. Solar barrage might be the most worthless skill in the game. Hell, most people don't even know what it is.
12. Radiant destruction has been nerfed multiple times making radiant glory absolutely useless.
13. Our class shield scales off of max health. It's worthless to anyone other than a full max health build.
14. Toppling charge has been broken for years. It rarely works, it's dodgeable, and at least 25% of the time the casting templar becomes stuck in the animation.

I know there's plenty that I've missed, but that's the best I can do while at work. Feel free to dissect these points.

@utb99 @Joy_Division are 2 of the most knowledgeable Templars that I know. They have essentially stopped posting because our opinions clearly are worth little to ZOS. Maybe this post will entice them to participate in this thread.

cc: @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Although I disagree with some of your points, I don't disagree with many of them, but those are completely off-topic. It's better if you make another thread regarding these issues, as for the range of this thread, if I understand correctly, you were trying to say that Templar should be the only healer class, other classes shouldn't have access to group resource support, meaning other classes shouldn't have a chance to compete with Templar for a healer spot in a raid. Correct me if that was not what you were trying to say. That's where we disagree, and this is what I said:

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

That's way too long, would defy the point of the change.

Sorc healers get by as is already. Maybe double the time to help but that's as far as it needs.

The main point is that it will solve 3 issues:
1) Templar will still be #1 Healer.

This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category. When you have one class outshining the others and being #1 at it.. theres no point in the others for that role. Should sorcs be the only DPS on raids because they have 'strong magical damage' and dragonknights should only be there 'to tank'? And nightblades can go away somewhere else?

The idea is to have every class be able to compete in roles. Nothing could compete with templar.

If that's the case, then ZOS probably shouldn't have given templars (and now wardens) an entire skill line dedicated to support and healing.

Don't forget that ZOS gives Templar 2 skill lines dedicated to DPS. The support skill line can also be utilized for tanking. Templar aren't designed to heal only, they are designed to tank, DPS and heal, so why take the chance of other classes to compete with Templar for a slot in healing? They give Templar a chance (also to Sorc and Nightblade) to compete with DK in tanking, they give Templar a chance to compete with Sorc, Nightblade, and DK in DPS.

I get it if the only thing Templar can do is heal, but that's not the case here. Templar's DPS is great, they were Meta last patch, this patch they are way above Nightblade and not far behind Sorc. Ironically enough, a class that people say it is designed for tanking, DK, can pull more single target than Sorc. In PvP, a good Magplar wins every single 1v1 duel. Templar's tanking capability is not bad, while they are not the best tank in vet trials, they at least have a chance to compete with DK for the main tank slot, we have seen so many Templar tanks who successfully tanked vet Trials, even vMoL HM. In PvP, Templar is arguably the best tank. They can tank zergs just as well as DK and they can heal their allies a lot in the process.

So, I don't see why we shouldn't give a chance for other classes to compete with Templar for a healing spot.

As for the topic of Major Mending, it is the exact thing i am trying to do here: I want to give you back your Major mending or if that cannot be done, then take it away from Warden.

F7sus4 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category.

Talk to me when you clear vHOF with your Magicka Sorcerer tank and your Stamina DK healer. Please sell this copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology somewhere else, honestly. Thanks!

Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them.

"Deltia said...". You made my day.

As a confirmation, you are saying, that no sorc tank has ever completed vMoL? Is that what you are trying to say? Please confirm it.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.

Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp

You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.

BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.

p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.

Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?

Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.

Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.

Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I

It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?

Here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

I take silence as you agree with my points.

[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait.

Oh wait, you have already lost your argument.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939

What argument? I was having a discussion with someone else. Here's some of my many thoughts on the Templar class. Most will be magic based as it is my main. I have a stamplar, but unlike many in the forums I will refrain from commenting on topics that I am not well versed. I apologize ahead of time as I am typing this out on my phone and there will likely be some grammatical errors.

1. Templars have the worst passives of all the classes. You could argue DK is worse now to the massive battle roar and helping hands nerf. Templars best passive was major mending. Prior to major mending being implemented, Templars had a straight 30% bonus to healing in our passives. Templars also had a passive a long time ago that restored a certain percentage of max magicka every time we used a skill. All of these passives have now been nerfed/removed.
2. Templars are forced to slot multiple skills to gain what other classes already have as passives (repentance gives 10% boost to recovery).
3. Templars have an entire skill line dedicated to healing/support that has been gutted by the current patch notes.
4. Templars don't have a reliable cc. Blinding flashes was removed. Blazing spear doesn't stun anymore. Luminous shards is a disorient which is terrible for a class relying on dots to buff (entropy/reflective light)
5. Templars don't have access to major sorcery or major savagery through class skills or passives.
6. Templars best defensive skill, extended ritual, recieved a huge cost increase when purifying ritual was changed to ritual of retribution. Extended ritual was then given purifying's removal if 5 negative effects after Templars flooded the forums with rage.
7. Templar ultimates are terrible. Rememberance is ok in PvP, nova has it's uses in PVE, and crescent sweep is alright for stamplars. The problem with all of these ultis is that they are second rate ultis compared to those that other classes/skill lines have.
8. Our dps spammable, puncturing sweeps, used to provide a significant hot. That hot has been nerfed multiple times (can't double crit + affected by battle spirit) and is now being hit again with nerf to major mending.
9. Healing ritual is terrible. No one uses it. It's designed to be our AOE heal but the cast time makes it horrible.
10. Dark flare is our hardest hitting ability. It has a cast time and a ridiculous travel time. It's early dodgeable and interruptible. It's suicide to use against anyone that know what he or she is doing.
11. Solar barrage might be the most worthless skill in the game. Hell, most people don't even know what it is.
12. Radiant destruction has been nerfed multiple times making radiant glory absolutely useless.
13. Our class shield scales off of max health. It's worthless to anyone other than a full max health build.
14. Toppling charge has been broken for years. It rarely works, it's dodgeable, and at least 25% of the time the casting templar becomes stuck in the animation.

I know there's plenty that I've missed, but that's the best I can do while at work. Feel free to dissect these points.

@utb99 @Joy_Division are 2 of the most knowledgeable Templars that I know. They have essentially stopped posting because our opinions clearly are worth little to ZOS. Maybe this post will entice them to participate in this thread.

cc: @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Although I disagree with some of your points, I don't disagree with many of them, but those are completely off-topic. It's better if you make another thread regarding these issues, as for the range of this thread, if I understand correctly, you were trying to say that Templar should be the only healer class, other classes shouldn't have access to group resource support, meaning other classes shouldn't have a chance to compete with Templar for a healer spot in a raid. Correct me if that was not what you were trying to say. That's where we disagree, and this is what I said:

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

That's way too long, would defy the point of the change.

Sorc healers get by as is already. Maybe double the time to help but that's as far as it needs.

The main point is that it will solve 3 issues:
1) Templar will still be #1 Healer.

This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category. When you have one class outshining the others and being #1 at it.. theres no point in the others for that role. Should sorcs be the only DPS on raids because they have 'strong magical damage' and dragonknights should only be there 'to tank'? And nightblades can go away somewhere else?

The idea is to have every class be able to compete in roles. Nothing could compete with templar.

If that's the case, then ZOS probably shouldn't have given templars (and now wardens) an entire skill line dedicated to support and healing.

Don't forget that ZOS gives Templar 2 skill lines dedicated to DPS. The support skill line can also be utilized for tanking. Templar aren't designed to heal only, they are designed to tank, DPS and heal, so why take the chance of other classes to compete with Templar for a slot in healing? They give Templar a chance (also to Sorc and Nightblade) to compete with DK in tanking, they give Templar a chance to compete with Sorc, Nightblade, and DK in DPS.

I get it if the only thing Templar can do is heal, but that's not the case here. Templar's DPS is great, they were Meta last patch, this patch they are way above Nightblade and not far behind Sorc. Ironically enough, a class that people say it is designed for tanking, DK, can pull more single target than Sorc. In PvP, a good Magplar wins every single 1v1 duel. Templar's tanking capability is not bad, while they are not the best tank in vet trials, they at least have a chance to compete with DK for the main tank slot, we have seen so many Templar tanks who successfully tanked vet Trials, even vMoL HM. In PvP, Templar is arguably the best tank. They can tank zergs just as well as DK and they can heal their allies a lot in the process.

So, I don't see why we shouldn't give a chance for other classes to compete with Templar for a healing spot.

As for the topic of Major Mending, it is the exact thing i am trying to do here: I want to give you back your Major mending or if that cannot be done, then take it away from Warden.

I don't think Templars should be the only healing class, but they should be the best support class due to the array of resource buffs Templars give to a group. Many of the abilities that Templars have are group support skills. Other classes have more damage dealing skills, skills that give mobility, and skills that provide self recovery/utility in place of these group support skills. If ZOS wants to nerf those skills into oblivion, then thats their call. I would rather ZOS replace those skills with useable cc's and a source of mobility than give us a poor man's version of what we've had in the past. I hate homogenization in mmo's, but that appears to be the oath that ZOS has chosen. Other classes now have access to resource buffs outside their class skills which is completely fine. Those skills shouldn't be nearly identical to the templar specific skills.

ZOS clearly thinks the templar provides too much group support, while they're releasing a class that arguably provides more group buffs and nearly as much healing.

As for major mending, I agree on both counts.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

This is super simple: giving the restro skill line a Major Mending buff that actually lasts for about 30 seconds.

1) It will be buff to Templar's heal: They will have access to Major Mending + Minor Mending + Minor Sorcery and AOE Minor Magickasteal.
2) Other classes have a chance to compete with Templar's heal if they wear Healer's Habit.
3) Unkillable trollplar spamming BoL will be forced to equip a restro and do restro heavy attack, thus reducing their effectiveness.

That's it. Simple.

I don't think it's that simple.

First of all, ZoS has made it quite clear they don;t want this to last that long and nowhere close to it.

Secondly, I still see this as a net nerf because 1) now everybody can have super-long access to something that was exclusively mine (I would rather eat broken glass than duel a NB that had access to major mending...I've done it before, give me the glass) 2) the restoration staff is a terrible weapon I have zero interest using, let alone relying on, when being zerged down by Saramis's gang in cyrodiil.

Thirdly, the whole "unkillable tollplar spamming BOL" leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I am sick and tired of hypocritical whiners somehow labeling how the class I main is destructive, ruining the game, or the reason for misery is Cyrodiil PvP's. What a bunch of crap. Ever see one of Kodi's video's of his stam sorcerer: the amount of self heals per tick that puts out is absolutely disgusting and ZoS has the nerve - the nerve - to take away my major mending? It's a joke...brought upon by misleading crap that people whose only agenda is to promote the success or their class and their play-style and nothing else.

I agree, if they don't want Major mending lasts long, then make sure Warden's MM uptime is lower than DK's MM uptime. Either they give MM to everyone, or take that away all together. Leaving high MM uptime for a single class, whether it's Templar or Warden, is not good for the game.

Trollplar = Magplar in Troll King and Reactive (Troll King + Magplar -> Trollplar), I don't mean Magplars are Trolls, sorry if that confuses you.

I'm not confused. It isn't DKs, sorcs, or NBs that are spamming BoL no?

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Classes can function outside of their skill lines primarily, sometimes entirely. I have a summoner skill line on my stam sorc - I dont use it for anything. Nightblades have assassin skill lines, they sometimes go full tank or heal (which they cant do all that well, but not terribly). Just because there is a skill line in there doesnt mean they are the de facto role for that and all others should pale in comparison.

All I'm trying to say is that if a class has an entire skill line dedicated to a role, then that class should be better at that role than the other classes.

Templar will still be better at the role than other classes - nobody can burst heal like a templar. Warden have a skill line dedicated to healing too so, it kind of matches your line of thought really on this. They will functionally operate differently - and Im not advocating for things to go as they are now. Templars healing in its current form will outshine warden just as it has outshined any other class for healing.

Fuxo wrote: »

Warden has got most major buffs and debuffs available in the game and they apply to multiple targets. They are the most versatile class of all. Any group will request a warden in any content. They don't need to compete with templar healers.

Do you think trial groups will drop templars, or run all wardens?

Personally, I don't think the healing is the biggest issue. The massive nerfs to templar support skills hurt much worse than the change from major mending to minor mending.

I would like access to major mending in someway. Alcast suggested making restoring focus give major mending while channelled will give magic sustain. I think that's a solid idea that will buff stamplars and still give magplars access to major mending.

Well Im on board with the support skill lines and spent hours the last 2 streams talking about that very thing. Uploaded videos. Im posting about healing in regards to the major mending in the thread title here. Templars healing is one issue - their support and other offensive skill options/mobility is something else. If you bring them all in its difficult to strike at an issue.

Templars current gameplay with BOL spam is bad for the game. Nothing can compete with it.

I agree. As a magplar I hate that we have to lean on BoL, but at the moment we have no other forms of defense. Blocking is essentially going to cost twice as much now. Blinding flashes was removed. The blazing spear stun was removed. Blazing shield is worthless unless a templar wants to full spec into health. Our only soft cc is a movement speed reduction that slows everyone else down closer to our speed. If ZOS would implement defensive skills that go along with Wrobels "templar house" vision, nerfing BoL wouldn't be a huge deal.

Full disclosure for anyone wondering, I'm talking in terms of pvp.

Exactly this. I'm terribly sorry if people are having a hard time killing magplars, but give me some options other than overhealing when I get focused, which if you're curious isn't exactly scintillating gameplay on my end either. The spear line has been neutered except for jabs which is laughably easy to counter, and I not only have no mobility, I have no cc.

Telling a magplar (healer, I'm there healing my team, that's my damn job) not to heal so much is like calling NBs cowardly for using cloak, or whining that werewolves use pounce too much. It's the tool I have, and I will use it to try to win. There are plenty of counters, and I know that for sure. I see them allllll the time.