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Is ESO becoming Pay to Win?
Vifen
✭✭✭
The Warden class just made me realize that ESO might be slowly trying to turn into a pay to win. This is a big concern.
First we have Bind on Pickup "wall" : sets from DLC dungeons that were Bind on Equip and thus obtainable for everyone pre-Homestead are now exclusive to those who bought the DLCs. I appreciate that the masks are made available through the Cyrodiil Golden Vendor (even though RNG is not that great) but the sets themselves like Spell Power Cure are entirely locked.
Now with the Warden class being behind a paywall. And ESO changing the other classes to bend around the new Warden skills, even lowering them to empower the Warden (Templars, BoL ...) is just too much.
I'm not trying to say that they should make everything free, but making extensions and encouraging players to pay for it with the promise of being better than other who did not pay is not the path to take. I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter.
First we have Bind on Pickup "wall" : sets from DLC dungeons that were Bind on Equip and thus obtainable for everyone pre-Homestead are now exclusive to those who bought the DLCs. I appreciate that the masks are made available through the Cyrodiil Golden Vendor (even though RNG is not that great) but the sets themselves like Spell Power Cure are entirely locked.
Now with the Warden class being behind a paywall. And ESO changing the other classes to bend around the new Warden skills, even lowering them to empower the Warden (Templars, BoL ...) is just too much.
I'm not trying to say that they should make everything free, but making extensions and encouraging players to pay for it with the promise of being better than other who did not pay is not the path to take. I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter.
PC EU
G Strongarm - 50 sorc
Vifen Ah - 50 dk crafter
G Strongarm - 50 sorc
Vifen Ah - 50 dk crafter
3
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imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, you still have to play. What you mention doesn't guarantee a "win"PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready5 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.
If an expansion is a P2W "paywall", then nearly every major game in existence has been that way.
(Diablo 2 was totally p2w with those Assassins and Druids stuck behind that Lord of Destruction paywall!)4 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »No.
If an expansion is a P2W "paywall", then nearly every major game in existence has been that way.
(Diablo 2 was totally p2w with those Assassins and Druids stuck behind that Lord of Destruction paywall!)
I have to disagree on Diablo 2, the best class was implemented at launch. #NecromacyOrNothing!"Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm2 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it P2W or not, dont know. But, are they putting BiS gear behind every single DLC(gear you can only obtain if bought DLC) and now 99% probability BiS class behind expansion pay wall? That is for sure!3 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭I quote myself from the last guy who said this.. "you're a moron"
Edit: I also edited to note I know I'm not being constructive.. but its true..Edited by magictucktuck on April 18, 2017 10:01PM1 -
imnotanother✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it P2W or not, dont know. But, are they putting BiS gear behind every single DLC(gear you can only obtain if bought DLC) and now 99% probability BiS class behind expansion pay wall? That is for sure!
Some of the BiS gear drops from base game dungeons and trials. Hell, even from overland bosses and dolmens.PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready1 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
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Its a pay 4 convenience game now, but they do seem to be headed for the pay to win status.7 -
Majeure✭✭✭✭
Well ACTUALLY, not so much, because there was clear segregation in place.Kiralyn2000 wrote: »(Diablo 2 was totally p2w with those Assassins and Druids stuck behind that Lord of Destruction paywall!)
If you were playing an Expansion character, you couldn't play or compete with those who were playing a Classic character. This includes the associated leaderboards, or "ladders" as they were called in D2.
You could convert your Classic character to an Expansion character, if you owned the Expansion, but never the other way around.
Ah, good old D2...
Back on topic though, perhaps, it depends on your definition of pay-to-win. Yes, to compete at the highest tiers certain item sets and such are required of you, like SPC for healers, which happen to be gated behind a paywall. Yes, the Warden is also locked behind a paywall. Now, if the meta requires you to be a Warden with SPC to be able to raid as a healer so your team can compete, and you are unable to climb said paywall, then you have a problem. But then, if you are in such a hardcore raiding group, you'd be climbing this paywall regardless for the new raid content, that'd be absolutely required as with Maw of Lorhkaj being locked behind the Thieve's Guild DLC paywall.
However, not any of these things guarantee you're going to win, but may be required to compete in the first place.
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Queo✭✭✭Its a business. Honestly, coming from a "F2P" Korean grinder, trust me you have no idea what P2W is...6 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭imnotanother wrote: »No, you still have to play. What you mention doesn't guarantee a "win"
^This.^
Not to mention that ZOS has already said the Warden really shines in a support role (off-tank or off-heals).
So, it's not really a P2W class to start with (even though there will be some very good Warden builds out there that are all DPS, all heals, or all tank).0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kyle.wilson wrote: »Its a pay 4 convenience game now, but they do seem to be headed for the pay to win status.
I'm not sure how this chart relates to anything ESO ... but mmkay.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on April 18, 2017 10:09PM0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭kyle.wilson wrote: »
Its a pay 4 convenience game now, but they do seem to be headed for the pay to win status.
It is so far from p2w. Even from your own chart out is not close to p2w, nor is it heading that way. Do the changes anger me a tad? Sure, but the game is not p2w and isn't even close to it. You can not start the game tomorrow and pay money and be able to beat those who have been playing and that haven't paid.
P2w would be paying for an extremely over powered account (character, items, stats, etc) that would automatically mean you would beat anyone who did not pay. That is not the case and doesn't even remotely look like it will be the case.
As some like to think, dlcs/ expansions costing money doesn't equal p2w either. That is a for profit business making a profit like virtually any other game.3 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Warden class just made me realize that ESO might be slowly trying to turn into a pay to win. This is a big concern.
First we have Bind on Pickup "wall" : sets from DLC dungeons that were Bind on Equip and thus obtainable for everyone pre-Homestead are now exclusive to those who bought the DLCs. I appreciate that the masks are made available through the Cyrodiil Golden Vendor (even though RNG is not that great) but the sets themselves like Spell Power Cure are entirely locked.
Now with the Warden class being behind a paywall. And ESO changing the other classes to bend around the new Warden skills, even lowering them to empower the Warden (Templars, BoL ...) is just too much.
I'm not trying to say that they should make everything free, but making extensions and encouraging players to pay for it with the promise of being better than other who did not pay is not the path to take. I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter.
Big fat yes. I'd be fine if warden was a solid class. Nerfing the other classes into oblivion and giving all of their unique passives to the paywall class is pretty suspect.3 -
Denyiir✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »No.
If an expansion is a P2W "paywall", then nearly every major game in existence has been that way.
(Diablo 2 was totally p2w with those Assassins and Druids stuck behind that Lord of Destruction paywall!)
Well I played d2 on battlenet for some time and strongest class was actually paladin speced into magic hammers (so called hammeradin). Assasin speced into traps was ok and druid really meh...
Plus also what @Majeure said ofcourseEdited by Denyiir on April 18, 2017 10:32PM0 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭My thread was golden, too bad it got removed because I refused to let people spew their ignorant opinions.
P2W isn't pay to progress or pay to advance, it's pay to have an unfair advantage over others.
Master Debater2 -
playsforfun✭✭✭✭Another thread were the OP doesn't know what P2W is
go play archeage you'll know the meaning of P2W there. 2 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Warden class just made me realize that ESO might be slowly trying to turn into a pay to win. This is a big concern.
First we have Bind on Pickup "wall" : sets from DLC dungeons that were Bind on Equip and thus obtainable for everyone pre-Homestead are now exclusive to those who bought the DLCs. I appreciate that the masks are made available through the Cyrodiil Golden Vendor (even though RNG is not that great) but the sets themselves like Spell Power Cure are entirely locked.
Now with the Warden class being behind a paywall. And ESO changing the other classes to bend around the new Warden skills, even lowering them to empower the Warden (Templars, BoL ...) is just too much.
I'm not trying to say that they should make everything free, but making extensions and encouraging players to pay for it with the promise of being better than other who did not pay is not the path to take. I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter.
Unless I win while playing warden then no. Stop making these stupid threadsIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer1 -
Shadow_Viper_vX✭✭✭✭✭Oh look this thread again...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336411/i-warned-ya-warden-puts-the-w-in-p2w#latest0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
brimstone74✭✭✭Can you major mending w/o a warden? Could you before? Pay to Trial?It's Mundumental!0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
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There is literal and non-literal P2W. This is literal p2w at this point, and multiple other things have been in the past.Smasherx74 wrote: »My thread was golden, too bad it got removed because I refused to let people spew their ignorant opinions.
P2W isn't pay to progress or pay to advance, it's pay to have an unfair advantage over other.
Here is a list for you.
Imperial Race
Item sets
Warden class.
good points @Smasherx74 ...given that rationale though - where does it end: mount training, experience scrolls, bag/bank space upgrades, bottomless crafting bag...
what is the difference then between pay to win and paying for convenience?
How to justify the purchase of any (beyond cosmetics) additional content...
Edited by geonsocal on April 19, 2017 12:18AMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place3
