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Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Vipstaakki wrote: »Are you seriously calling auction houses modern? They have been around since MUD's. If you want a modern system you should definitely support guild traders.
Guild Traders are an example of what I call being "Zenimaxed".
Zenimaxed: when something is designed with such a commitment to being "different" that the designers forget that it also has to "work".
At launch much of the game was like that.
Over time Zenimax have seen the light and have changed things - nearly always for the better.
The only two things left in game that I consider to be "Zenimaxed" are Guild Membership and the Trade System.
Any trade system that makes it HARDER, not easier, for Buyers to buy and Sellers to sell is, self evidently, not working.
All The Best
That guy you responded to is either a troll, or what I suspect is just exploiting the lack of a proper system and buyers having the ability to be informed of the value of things. I already ignored it so I won't be bothered with it. Scumbags like that are obviously abusing the lack of a proper system and are part of the problem so naturally they will attempt to 'shame' you or ridicule any opinions that are not in the support of the lack of a proper system so they can continue to monopolize and take advantage of others' ignorance. The whole mention of 'muds' is to attempt to build 'nerd credit', which actually doesn't matter to most people. It won't make many others more likely to be manipulated or pressured by it's bs. I couldn't care less about those things if it actually did partake in them anyways. It has little relevance to this thread right now. And is just kind of sad knowing the kind of people glued to their computers back in those days.Edited by necronomniconb14_ESO on April 16, 2017 6:38PM0 -
Alchemical✭✭✭✭✭Alchemical wrote: »One person should not be able to shut down an entire market like that.[
So why did you do it then?
Because I could. No one could stop me, it wasn't against the rules, and I made a ton of gold off it I used to buy myself another mount that would cost $400 on ebay.
Just because I profit off a system doesn't mean I believe it's a good one.1 -
FlicksZ✭✭✭Part of why I said don't waste your time.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Trying to solve a problem by limiting players abilities to sell items is a clear indication that the base idea is bad to begin with.
^ You knock someone's suggestion and inadvertently or subconsciously knock the thing your trying to defend. The quote describes the kiosk system to a T by its very nature.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The essential idea is few seem want this to begin with. No huge outcry for a central trading system. Not even close to a soft outcry.
^ Why do people write things like this and based on what? So many stars but its like the forums don't exist. Game released on PC 4th Apr 2014? Search engine shows >1000 topics on Auction House alone dating back to May 2014. Pure nonsense at best, lack of understanding or outright lies at worst. Far from "Not even close to a soft outcry".Edited by FlicksZ on April 16, 2017 9:23PM0 -
Dragonking06✭✭✭No.
It won't happen. Never will. Doesn't need too.
The current system serves its purpose.
For the reasons why, see post number 3.
Now stop asking.PC - NA ServerNora Wolf-bane - Nord - Knight of Alkosh, Tank"We both looked into the Abyss. But when it looked back... You blinked."1 -
Egonieser✭✭✭✭✭
✭Part of why I said don't waste your time.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Trying to solve a problem by limiting players abilities to sell items is a clear indication that the base idea is bad to begin with.
^ You knock someone's suggestion and inadvertently or subconsciously knock the thing your trying to defend. The quote describes the kiosk system to a T by its very nature.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The essential idea is few seem want this to begin with. No huge outcry for a central trading system. Not even close to a soft outcry.
^ Why do people write things like this and based on what? So many stars but its like the forums don't exist. Game released on PC 4th Apr 2014? Search engine shows >1000 topics on Auction House alone dating back to May 2014. Pure nonsense at best, lack of understanding or outright lies at worst. Far from "Not even close to a soft outcry".
1000 topics in a sea of millions that are happily playing the game and have no issues. Yeah, I'd call that a non-issue, minor inconvenience at best. There are more pressing matters that actually need fixing that in many cases are much worse than some QoL stuff. I for one would much rather ZoS focus their efforts on reducing lag, performance issues, disconnects, group finder, loading screens to name a few - which are actually Vital - everything else is secondary, including the whole AH debacle.Edited by Egonieser on April 16, 2017 10:07PMSometimes, I dream about...cheese...
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FlicksZ✭✭✭1000 topics in a sea of millions that are happily playing the game and have no issues. Yeah, I'd call that a non-issue, minor inconvenience at best. There are more pressing matters that actually need fixing that in many cases are much worse than some QoL stuff. I for one would much rather ZoS focus their efforts on reducing lag, performance issues, disconnects, group finder, loading screens to name a few - which are actually Vital - everything else is secondary, including the whole AH debacle.
I wrote: >1000. Please don't distort the facts like so many typically do. You know what > means? I think you are old enough, mature enough and smart enough to understand that. If not you too can do a simple search on the internet.
Non issue - a topic of little or no importance.
Your non issue can be someone else's issue. While I appreciate and respect your opinion like anyone else's, I do not agree with it. It has caused people to quit and is very limiting in nature. I see that as a big issue as detailed in my 1st comment. While I have not outright said I want an AH and have used the kiosks to my own benefit, I would not be adverse to one or changing the current system to be a lot friendlier.
I agree with your hierarchy of pressing matters but ultimately only ZoS actually knows its priorities. Our issues are someone else's non issue. I would not ask anyone to stop posting about "lag, performance issues, disconnects, group finder, loading screens to name a few" but for some reason it seems acceptable to tell people to effectively shut and leave the dead horse be. Its what the forums are for... feedback, good/bad and constructive. Secondary or not.
I too happily enjoy this game. If I did not enjoy the over all game or the marketing strategies was just too intrusive/much I would not play. Simple as. In a sea of millions, how many out there just simply didn't bother to post/create a forum account? How you know these millions have 0 issues? You write just like the person I quoted... very misleading.0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree... there's no reward in spending a couple hours fishing for the best deal, and still never finding it. Auction house would be incredible for everyone, especially master crafters.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Vipstaakki wrote: »Are you seriously calling auction houses modern? They have been around since MUD's. If you want a modern system you should definitely support guild traders.
Guild Traders are an example of what I call being "Zenimaxed".
Zenimaxed: when something is designed with such a commitment to being "different" that the designers forget that it also has to "work".
At launch much of the game was like that.
Over time Zenimax have seen the light and have changed things - nearly always for the better.
The only two things left in game that I consider to be "Zenimaxed" are Guild Membership and the Trade System.
Any trade system that makes it HARDER, not easier, for Buyers to buy and Sellers to sell is, self evidently, not working.
All The Best
You are mostly right. Zenimax did improve the guild trading system significantly sometime after launch. It was originally only located in Cyrodiil keeps and one had to take a keep and claim the vendor inside before someone else did. Very limited access and reliability.
Adding the traders throughout the world was a significant improvement. Thx for bringing this up and reminding everyone the progress that has been made. Really good now.0 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭Central auction houses get abused. Period. It's happened in FF. It's happened in GW2. It's happened in WoW.
Any centralized unregulated market (real or virtual) is fresh meat to anyone with even an ounce of economics savy. For a real life example read up on the Hunt brothers and Silver Thursday. Get a group together, buy out a commodity (low drop rate items) cornering the market, raise the price significantly for profit while pissing off everyone else.
It's not impossible to do in ESO, but it is a lot harder to pull off with their system vs. a centralized market.
At best, a central auction house would only work with fairly common items, since if someone tried to corner the market on those people would just go and get it themselves. For rare items you would need to implement similar rules in the virtual world that they have in the real world in regards to commodities trading (or just allow the system to be abused).1 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Central auction houses get abused. Period. It's happened in FF. It's happened in GW2. It's happened in WoW.
Any centralized unregulated market (real or virtual) is fresh meat to anyone with even an ounce of economics savy. For a real life example read up on the Hunt brothers and Silver Thursday. Get a group together, buy out a commodity (low drop rate items) cornering the market, raise the price significantly for profit while pissing off everyone else.
It's not impossible to do in ESO, but it is a lot harder to pull off with their system vs. a centralized market.
At best, a central auction house would only work with fairly common items, since if someone tried to corner the market on those people would just go and get it themselves. For rare items you would need to implement similar rules in the virtual world that they have in the real world in regards to commodities trading (or just allow the system to be abused).
There aren't enough Guild Traders though. Only 171. Which means the majority of players get locked out of selling through Guild Traders.
And saying they can still sell stuff through Guild Stores is not a fair comparison. If it was, no one would pay the ridiculously high prices to sell at Guild Traders if they could make as much profit through Guild Stores.
Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Central auction houses get abused. Period. It's happened in FF. It's happened in GW2. It's happened in WoW.
Any centralized unregulated market (real or virtual) is fresh meat to anyone with even an ounce of economics savy. For a real life example read up on the Hunt brothers and Silver Thursday. Get a group together, buy out a commodity (low drop rate items) cornering the market, raise the price significantly for profit while pissing off everyone else.
It's not impossible to do in ESO, but it is a lot harder to pull off with their system vs. a centralized market.
At best, a central auction house would only work with fairly common items, since if someone tried to corner the market on those people would just go and get it themselves. For rare items you would need to implement similar rules in the virtual world that they have in the real world in regards to commodities trading (or just allow the system to be abused).
There aren't enough Guild Traders though. Only 171. Which means the majority of players get locked out of selling through Guild Traders.
And saying they can still sell stuff through Guild Stores is not a fair comparison. If it was, no one would pay the ridiculously high prices to sell at Guild Traders if they could make as much profit through Guild Stores.
Most of the guilds have space and if most of the players were interested in selling and felt locked out then this thread would be significantly more lively.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭trenchfeeder_ESO wrote: »With the release of Morrowind coming up I think it's more than beyond the time to add some form of central auction house. Guild traders are great and all, but spending 2 hours going city to city and taking notes to compare prices is not fun and a huge waste of peoples time. I don't see any legitimate reason it can't be done. I'm not saying get rid of guild traders, I'm saying we need a central place that combines all of the guild trader listings in one place.
Interesting idea... since I'm a little bored right now, it is quite interesting to aim for breaking the market system with the Auction House sytem...
Seriously, guild traders are way better than any AH. Eso relies on actualCentral auction houses get abused. Period. It's happened in FF. It's happened in GW2. It's happened in WoW.
Any centralized unregulated market (real or virtual) is fresh meat to anyone with even an ounce of economics savy. For a real life example read up on the Hunt brothers and Silver Thursday. Get a group together, buy out a commodity (low drop rate items) cornering the market, raise the price significantly for profit while pissing off everyone else.
It's not impossible to do in ESO, but it is a lot harder to pull off with their system vs. a centralized market.
At best, a central auction house would only work with fairly common items, since if someone tried to corner the market on those people would just go and get it themselves. For rare items you would need to implement similar rules in the virtual world that they have in the real world in regards to commodities trading (or just allow the system to be abused).
There aren't enough Guild Traders though. Only 171. Which means the majority of players get locked out of selling through Guild Traders.
And saying they can still sell stuff through Guild Stores is not a fair comparison. If it was, no one would pay the ridiculously high prices to sell at Guild Traders if they could make as much profit through Guild Stores.
Well, that's different discusion.
I would like an increase in the selling slots too, from 30 to 50 for example.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
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I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭There aren't enough Guild Traders though. Only 171. Which means the majority of players get locked out of selling through Guild Traders.
I'll be honest: I much prefer ESO's over WoW and SWTOR. A centralised GTN/AH can be dominated by a focused player. I have had guildmates do it so I know it can be done.
But if the issue is not enough Guild traders, then, perhaps each faction should have one 'neutral,' meaning non-Guild-owned, trader. Put either a lower cap on listings or a higher cut (or any limitation, really) to make sure it doesn't become a GTN/AH and maybe something like that will satisfy the crowd that doesn't want to join a trading guild.
On that note: not all trading guilds are the same. I happen to be in one that, while perhaps not in the 'perfect' location, doesn't have quotas, and participates in all sorts of activity. I have had all my listings sell.
So, it is *not* valid to say join a strict trading guild or be locked out of the market. (Not that you, yourself, said that).
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alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭trenchfeeder_ESO wrote: »With the release of Morrowind coming up I think it's more than beyond the time to add some form of central auction house. Guild traders are great and all, but spending 2 hours going city to city and taking notes to compare prices is not fun and a huge waste of peoples time. I don't see any legitimate reason it can't be done. I'm not saying get rid of guild traders, I'm saying we need a central place that combines all of the guild trader listings in one place.
Some of us are glad they aren't adding an auction house. Imo, the time for that is never.
A good legitimate reason for not having one is not everyone wants it and apparently zos doesn't either.witchdoctor wrote: »And that arguably acts as a great money sink. What is ZOS going to replace that with?
Housing added a MASSIVE money sink to the game. Hundreds of thousands to millions per house. 3k-10k for average furniture, and the sky's the limit. Some plants and such on the weekly vendor go for 50k+ EACH and up. Also don't forget the gold gear vender: 100k-200k+ PER PIECE of gear! This game has plenty of gold sinks.
I actually think the reason for not doing a global AH isn't to do with the economy at all, I think it is to do with Megaserver and performance. I think as they continue to see financial success with the game they can gradually add hardware and start phasing in features like multiple guilds "owning" each kiosk for the week, to at least keep more of the economy in circulation instead of stagnant in the pockets of the few, by deflating the asinine bidding prices a bit so all reasonably active guilds in the game have a fair chance to participate.
I doubt the reason for not having an auction house has anything to do with the server. And zos has never even mentioned an auction house as a possibility of happening, thank you zos!
All guilds are able to compete, they just have to work their way up. You think those big guilds with millions stacked in the bank got that way over night? No, they put in the time to get there just as any other guilds should have to if they want to compete at the same level.
The current market system in eso adds another aspect to the game that some people enjoy. Hopefully they will continue to see how great of a system they have and keep it for the life of the game. The only change I would like to see is an updated ui across all platforms, including a search box.
These threads always seem to pop up in little spurts. So I guess let's just keep beating the horse.1 -
trenchfeeder_ESO wrote: »With the release of Morrowind coming up I think it's more than beyond the time to add some form of central auction house. Guild traders are great and all, but spending 2 hours going city to city and taking notes to compare prices is not fun and a huge waste of peoples time. I don't see any legitimate reason it can't be done. I'm not saying get rid of guild traders, I'm saying we need a central place that combines all of the guild trader listings in one place.
Some of us are glad they aren't adding an auction house. Imo, the time for that is never.
A good legitimate reason for not having one is not everyone wants it and apparently zos doesn't either.witchdoctor wrote: »And that arguably acts as a great money sink. What is ZOS going to replace that with?
The current market system in eso adds another aspect to the game that some people enjoy. Hopefully they will continue to see how great of a system they have and keep it for the life of the game. The only change I would like to see is an updated ui across all platforms, including a search box.
These threads always seem to pop up in little spurts. So I guess let's just keep beating the horse.
lmfao. 'enjoy' yes, people enjoy spending 2 or 3 hours running all over hell and creation to likely still not get what they were looking for. Do you remember what happened with the real life version of this shopping behavior? Amazon and Ebay became very popular and ran tons of archaic brick and mortars out of business because when it's not Nintendo making something you can usually find it available and often at a slight discount from places like Amazon and Newegg. And you don't need to fight traffic, deal with other humans in person, and burn gas visiting store after store hoping what you want is in one of them. You just order it and let some other pricks deal with getting it to your house. Pricks like you that post in attempts to shame, ridicule or present your alternative facts in objection to a better and Actual system are clearly exploiting the lack of a proper system and are the whales of the game... the Only ones benefiting from the clusterfraking autistically designed mess that it is now. You're clearly biased and abusing the lack of a proper system or you would know that most people do Not enjoy wasting time they could be questing or xping with in the game looking for crap they likely won't find to begin with but could have realized they wouldn't in 2 second instead of 2 fraking hours just so nerds like you can keep them ignorant of the real value of items and control their ability to acquire them. You may as well be trump because you're supporting another kind of wall in the game.
-I will just decon or vendor everything once it gets too full on every toon. I will not waste another second of my time running around looking for things that I usually won't find anyways that will likely be nerfed by the time I find it anyways. I'll use what I find, and temper it if it's okay. If nobody likes that and wants to be little brats and kick me for it, tough sh-t and I can always yank the boss on them and roll around until the instance kicks me and it wipes their sad a--es. This is not a serious 'mmorpg', and players like you are a sad joke. The elitism will tone down after enough of the peasants start treating you the way you deserve. .Edited by necronomniconb14_ESO on April 17, 2017 11:18AM0 -
parkham✭✭✭I am against a central auction house. I am all for players being able to travel to merchants throughout Tamriel and post what they want to buy and what they want to sell without having to be in a guild and also without having to bid on a spot.
Open it up for everyone. That's point of what I posted here and elsewhere.
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Axoinus✭✭✭✭✭I agree with OP for the following reasons:
1) A lot of people are not currently participating in the guild economy. I can only imagine how many saleable products are sitting in banks and mules.
2) Because of #1, prices are already artificially high. Supply is being artificially limited. Demand is being filtered through the guild traders.
3) Concerns have come up that a global market allows market cornering tactics. This is already happening today in the current guild economy. In fact this is a reality with all market including the ones in real life. How do you get around it? You make laws that discourage the practice. It happens, but its a temporary condition. Sometimes the manipulator can lose if they get caught up in a short squeeze. Risk/reward.
4) Isolated economies are inefficient.
5) People have identified that the current system is more immersive. I call BS on that one. If such a system is more immersive for you, why have you not been complaining about craft bags and account based bank storage and full bank access at any crafting table?
mic drop1 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭I'd just like to add my support for this.
The trading system at the moment is a Complete Pain In The Bum.
I've just been running around trying to find some Filtered Water. I've had to log in on multiple characters, run around the various guild traders and deal with the horrible non-exsistent 'search engine'. I eventually found some but only after 10 traders, more time than necessary and even then, I only found 15 of them, and I have no idea if I bought them at a fair price or not.
I feel the same way about selling items too. I've found quite a few purple motifs in the last week that I'd sell if I could do it easily but I'm not going to go through the hassle of joining a Trading Guild just to dip my toe in the current system.
This is me just speculating ofc but I suspect that many players are vendoring mats and items which they might usefully put on a centralised Auction House if it was an easy thing to do.
I expect every system has it's flaws, and one big AH wouldn't be perfect, but I think more players would use it - I certainly would - more STUFF would be posted and it would be easier to track prices and find things.
At the moment it's just a drag to use.2 -
Chronicburn✭✭✭✭Auction house for each faction with a few auction places in each zone = problem solvedEdited by Chronicburn on September 9, 2017 4:32AM0
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Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have a gif reaction but I have to wait until I get home.
Edit: I came home.
On topic: at the very minimum they need a search field but don't hold your breath.
You mean this John Cena?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Thk4uonEmU 0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Click the gif
#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
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""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
bottleofsyrup✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chronicburn wrote: »Auction house for each faction with a few auction places in each zone = problem solved
Nice necro.0 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the guild vendor thing is ok, not great but alot better than an auctionhouse that can destroy value.
just making them easier to search for specific things would be a huge improvement >.>PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
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