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Miat's PVP Alerts just got updated! Now in 3D!
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭I plan to answer in more detail later, but suffice to say, if you don't need it, why do you proclaim it provides you with an advantage.I do it regularly as well. The difference between us is i still enjoy those attacks to have clear cues and you don't.
It is not a question of enjoyment. You may think you are providing a service to people but you should not be required to use a third party add-on to play competitively.
The issue is you think that avoiding those attacks are an issue of whether or not you could have dodge rolled when in fact they are a question of whether or not you approached the situation itself correctly, which is why it is a reductive way to deal with the issue. It is not an issue of choice - the notifications allow you to react to something easily which would normally require a higher degree of skill and strategy. The requirement to anticipate the attack is the challenging component and the notifications effectively neuter that. Yes anticipating things is a skill that people in general use, but getting hit from behind or the side or from stealth requires a higher degree of insight and abstract anticipation.
You may like problems to be rational and concrete, but not all components of the game should be that way.
It makes it boring, and highly controlled. Uncontrolled elements make the game less predictable which means events occur more spontaneously. If all the elements of the game are controlled, there is no reason to play because you can just calculate the outcome before it even starts.Edited by Cathexis on April 14, 2017 8:52AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've been aware of this add-on for a while, and only started using it recently mainly because I started to realise that most vids I see posted by good players show it being used - and therefore it was starting to be used that much that NOT using it put you at a distinct disadvantage.
As to who it benefits/hurts most, I'm pretty confident that it hurts my new sorc build more than must since its a DW build with double-slotted frags for Max procs, and no anytime, no weaving. Aside from frags, DMG only comes from curse (every 3 seconds) and an execute which only tickles when not in execute range. Its a Max mag setup with very little stamina... I cannot block/dodge every time a notification pops up.. Yet it seems now, about 3 out of 4 of my frags get dodged or blocked. Even when attacking people who are kiting and can't see it coming.
This DOES gut 90% of the DMG from my build.
Now looking at Hexys build using a lot of stam regen and dark exchange to regain mag, its clear that the build has this add-on in mind for the roll-dodges.
I don't like that addons have this kind of impacts on builds. But its like nukes.. You can't uninvent them, and unless you have them too, you're at a disadvantage..
Edited by Biro123 on April 14, 2017 11:14AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't really see the point in complaining about this addon.
If Im fighting someone 1 on 1 Im going to see every single one of his frags coming anyway and I wouldnt need this addon to tell me I should maybe roll dodge, block or reflect it. This addon starts becoming useful when multiple people are trying to zerg you and there's so many incoming attacks it's hard to keep track of the important ones in a visual way... so where's the problem? This addon makes Xv1 slightly less easy?
Same reason Ive been using miat's CC tracker for a while now. When there's multiple people on me getting feared without being able to notice for a second is usually a death sentence. I like to be able to actually respond to what people are trying to do to me without the game failing to provide me the necessary info.
Not using this addon yet but strongly considering it. The other features look really neat too!0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
And yet again, the addon consists of about 10 features. These notifications is 1 feature out of 10. If i have to choose i'd pick 3d icons as the best feature i even done. Then kos/killfeed/database, then camp/death screen.
These are the features i really like. Notifications was what it started with, not what it ended up being.
the 3d icons was interesting, I got some lag though when using it (FPS lag) so i turned them off. KOS/Killfeed are honestly the best out of it.
The notification though is broken and shouldn't be possible.
I agree that the notification shouldn´t be possible.
However the game should always play snipe animations and sounds.
It should always play CF / darkflare animations.
It should make projectile bow heavyattacks more recognizeable (it deals the same dmg as a fireheavy - it should be as visible).
Since all the heavyattack and castskill information the game provides you with is either unreliable or flatout bugged to the point where it´s unusable (macroslice anyone) i prefer having an addon that actually tells me whats going on.
And i say that as a magsorc that gets all their fragments dodged due to this addon.
These animations "work" that way for everyone and in heat of battle they (when they are working as supposed to be) easily missable. Having this addon "to fix" these rather small issues while getting huge advantage over anyone else in all situations does not somehow making forgivable. Even if you say it as magsorc that has one hard hitting, often cheap and often instacastble skill dodged because of it.
It is not like this addon removes 90% of your damage output...
Oh i don´t think it gives as much of an advantage as you think it does.
I also think the game itself is in an unacceptable state when looking at combat animations/telegraphs and soundcues. The addond fixes these issues that zos is obviously unable to fix. I think that´s good.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Regardless of ingame animations/informations being sufficient/fair or not ...
An addon should not influence the game experience of players who don't use the addon for whatever reason. This addon does however, and that's imo the main issue and the reason, why there is so much hate towards it. You can't just say "don't use it, if you don't like it", because you still have to deal with players who use it to their advantage against you (e.g. dodging attacks that they otherwise wouldn't). You can't ignore the existence of addons like this. And that's bad.Edited by Rianai on April 14, 2017 2:37PM3 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭It is not a question of enjoyment. You may think you are providing a service to people but you should not be required to use a third party add-on to play competitively.
But you are not REQUIRED to use it. Competitiveness doesn't have to be 'competitiveness at all costs'.
Does these notifications make some (some) encounters easier and allow for a larger room to errors? Yes they do.
Does they make pvp a non-brainer, no-skill activity? No they don't. Because it's ultimately to the player to find the proper response.The issue is you think that avoiding those attacks are an issue of whether or not you could have dodge rolled when in fact they are a question of whether or not you approached the situation itself correctly, which is why it is a reductive way to deal with the issue.
Actually i can relate to this. For instance this can be rephrased as 'if you keep dying to 5v1, don't do 5v1. Do 3v1'.
As people have mentioned though, if you 1v1 somebody you don't need the addon, you already watch the guy. This is the reason why the addon is fully disabled in duels outside of cyrodiil,
If you're xv1'ing somebody you don't need the addon. You got only one target to watch.
If you're zergv1/zergvsmallgroup - you're probably don't need this feature as well.
So the only engagements when having these notifications might be really useful are 1vx and small man v zerg.
The question is are we really discussing xv1'ers problems?:) Is the point of the whole discussion isThis addon makes Xv1 slightly less easy?
and that it makes some types of ganks slightly less easy as well?It is not an issue of choice - the notifications allow you to react to something easily which would normally require a higher degree of skill and strategy.
This is correct.The requirement to anticipate the attack is the challenging component and the notifications effectively neuter that. Yes anticipating things is a skill that people in general use, but getting hit from behind or the side or from stealth requires a higher degree of insight and abstract anticipation.
This is correct as well, besides 'neuter' part. You still have a huge number of things to anticipate in 1vx scenario. The addon makes this task a bit easier, but in no way it reduces it to nothing.You may like problems to be rational and concrete, but not all components of the game should be that way.
I do agree with this.It makes it boring, and highly controlled.
I, personally, don't find highly controlled to be boring, but i does depend on the degree. With these notifications there's still a huge room for unpredictability in 1vx, thus i find it very much engaging.Uncontrolled elements make the game less predictable which means events occur more spontaneously. If all the elements of the game are controlled, there is no reason to play because you can just calculate the outcome before it even starts.
Yet again i do agree with this.Edited by Dorrino on April 14, 2017 3:14PM0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭You can't just say "don't use it, if you don't like it", because you still have to deal with players who use it to their advantage against you (e.g. dodging attacks that they otherwise wouldn't). You can't ignore the existence of addons like this. And that's bad.
Since the notifications are purely defensive i think i can say "don't use it, if you don't like it". If you don't use it and your opponent does - in a duel the result will be the same. If you xv1 the guy it doesn't matter if you have it or not. If you 1vx the guy - if doesn't matter if HE has it or not.
I don't see a use-case when not having it will be detrimental when fighting a guy who has it.
Edited by Dorrino on April 14, 2017 3:14PM0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can the addon allow players to dodge attacks that they wouldn't without it? Can avoiding or landing certain attacks influence the outcome of a fight? The answer is "yes" to both, right? Or do you really want to call your own the addon (well, the attack notifications at least) useless, which it would be, if it had no impact on fights. Just because it won't affect every situation doesn't mean, it has no influence at all. And some players view this potential influence as negative for their own experience. Otherwise there would be no complaints.
An addon should never change anything for players that don't use said addon. It doesn't matter what the addon does and wether it is fair/healthy/good/whatever for the game (which is subjective anyways).4 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Cathexis Valiant effort, but Miat's opinion of stealth play seems set in stone. He just has the advantage of being able to make neat addons to support those opinions, whereas most of us don't.
I mean, just think. What if we found ways to code addons that invalidated other playstyles or builds that we personally found cheesy, cheap, or cancerous (each of those terms being completely relative and defined only by the user)? Imagine the possibilities! We as a community have a great track record when it comes to knowing what is truly good for the game, so I say, let's just balance it ourselves.
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why I switched from PC to XBOX.
You need all of this *** to be competitive. LOL.
It takes a pro-active re-active combat system and makes it infantile it so people who do not have a clue about how their eyes and ears are supposed to be used have a chance.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Seriously, most of you would get squashed without them.3 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
He admits it right here. His add on gives him an advantage. He dies more often without it and his Stam management is worse because he doesn't have the addon to micromanage his abilities for him.
Furthermore, he passes off the addon as a mere "convenience." how can something that keeps you alive more often and provides you sa on active ability use to manage resources better be considered a mere convenience?
This clearly gives players who use it an advantage that goes beyond "convenience." Having an addon that stacks my bank items is a convenience. Having an addon that tells me when to dodgeroll when my back is turned from a cripple 28 meters away is an advantage.
I don't buy the it's available to everyone so it's fair bs. Not everyone uses every addon due to memory issues, bugs, and overall degraded performance issues, if the argument is it's available for everyone to run it to be competitive than inherently its unfair.
Zos may have unknowingly allowed you to exploit this code for your so called "convenience" due to their ignorance, but I highly doubt it was their original intent to allow this cheese. Their intent has always been that this game be based on skill. This addon violates that.Edited by LegacyDM on April 15, 2017 4:41PMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South6 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭He admits it right here. His add on gives him an advantage. He dies more often without it and his Stam management is worse because he doesn't have the addon to micromanage his abilities for him.
Any addon gives an 'advantage'. There's a reason why you use an addon as opposed to not using it. If you find that the interface feature, provided by the addon, makes your gameplay more enjoyable or, as in this case, allows you to recognize dangers with a greater ease - you use the addon. If you don't find it useful for you - you don't.
I don't see how can you make a distiction between convenience and advantage. It is convenient for me to have these notifications. This can be rephrased as 'my gameplay becomes more effective with these notifications'. That the definition of both convenience and advantage. They are the same.Furthermore, he passes off the addon as a mere "convenience." how can something that keeps you alive more often and provides you sa on active ability use to manage resources better be considered a mere convenience?
Yes it does. Having your resources as large bars stacked in the center of your screen (as lui does for instance), gives you both convenience and advantage, since now you're MORE aware about them, thus you can make better combat choices than with lesser awareness.This clearly gives players who use it an advantage that goes beyond "convenience." Having an addon that stacks my bank items is a convenience. Having an addon that tells me when to dodgeroll when my back is turned from a stealth cripple 28 meters away is an advantage.
This addon doesn't notify about both stealthed and cripple. Please read the description.I don't buy the it's available to everyone so it's fair bs. Not everyone uses every addon due to memory issues, bugs, and overall degraded performance issues, if the argument is it's available for everyone to run it to be competitive than inherently its unfair.
Tell me when my addon specifically degrades your game performance that much and i'll fix it. This shouldn't happen.
About competitiveness part - as outlined in a couple of previous posts - please give me a description of pvp situation where you lose to sombody who runs the addon, because you don't run it. Describe to me the necessity to use the addon.
And also define 'competitivenss' here. What does it mean within Cyrodiil experience and how exactly my addon affects it?
Example: 'Me and 5 my friends were chasing 1 guy and he refused to die, because Miat's addon allowed him to dodge our attacks'.Zos may have unknowingly allowed you to exploit this code for your so called "convenience" due to their ignorance, but I highly doubt it was their original intent to allow this cheese. Their intent has always been that this game be based on skill. This addon violates that.
The addon promotes skillful play and reduces the amount of cheese related to shortcomings of the default interface. Sorry about that.Edited by Dorrino on April 15, 2017 5:49PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
And yet again, the addon consists of about 10 features. These notifications is 1 feature out of 10. If i have to choose i'd pick 3d icons as the best feature i even done. Then kos/killfeed/database, then camp/death screen.
These are the features i really like. Notifications was what it started with, not what it ended up being.
the 3d icons was interesting, I got some lag though when using it (FPS lag) so i turned them off. KOS/Killfeed are honestly the best out of it.
The notification though is broken and shouldn't be possible.
I agree that the notification shouldn´t be possible.
However the game should always play snipe animations and sounds.
It should always play CF / darkflare animations.
It should make projectile bow heavyattacks more recognizeable (it deals the same dmg as a fireheavy - it should be as visible).
Since all the heavyattack and castskill information the game provides you with is either unreliable or flatout bugged to the point where it´s unusable (macroslice anyone) i prefer having an addon that actually tells me whats going on.
And i say that as a magsorc that gets all their fragments dodged due to this addon.
These animations "work" that way for everyone and in heat of battle they (when they are working as supposed to be) easily missable. Having this addon "to fix" these rather small issues while getting huge advantage over anyone else in all situations does not somehow making forgivable. Even if you say it as magsorc that has one hard hitting, often cheap and often instacastble skill dodged because of it.
It is not like this addon removes 90% of your damage output...
Oh i don´t think it gives as much of an advantage as you think it does.
I also think the game itself is in an unacceptable state when looking at combat animations/telegraphs and soundcues. The addond fixes these issues that zos is obviously unable to fix. I think that´s good.
@Derra you're right, however, using an add on instead of having the game actually function is pretty much a big middle finger to console players.0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭He admits it right here. His add on gives him an advantage. He dies more often without it and his Stam management is worse because he doesn't have the addon to micromanage his abilities for him.
Any addon gives an 'advantage'. There's a reason why you use an addon as opposed to not using it. If you find that the interface feature, provided by the addon makes your gameplay more enjoyable or, as in this case, allow you to recognize dangers with a greater ease - you use the addon. If you don't find it useful for you - you don't.
I don't see how can you make a distiction between convenience and advantage. It is convenient for me to have these notifications. This can be rephrased as 'my gameplay becomes more effective with these notifications'. That the definition of both convenience and advantage. They are the same.Furthermore, he passes off the addon as a mere "convenience." how can something that keeps you alive more often and provides you sa on active ability use to manage resources better be considered a mere convenience?
Yes it does. Having your resources as large bars stacked in the center of your screen as (lui does for instance), gives you both convenience and advantage, since now you're MORE aware about them, thus you can make better combat choices than with lesser awareness.This clearly gives players who use it an advantage that goes beyond "convenience." Having an addon that stacks my bank items is a convenience. Having an addon that tells me when to dodgeroll when my back is turned from a stealth cripple 28 meters away is an advantage.
This addon doesn't notify about both stealthed and cripple. Please read the description.I don't buy the it's available to everyone so it's fair bs. Not everyone uses every addon due to memory issues, bugs, and overall degraded performance issues, if the argument is it's available for everyone to run it to be competitive than inherently its unfair.
Tell me when my addon specifically degrades your game performance that much and i'll fix it. This shouldn't happen.
About competitiveness part - as outlined in a couple of previous posts - please give me a description of pvp situation where you lose to sombody who runs the addon, because you don't run it. Describe to me the necessity to use the addon.
And also define 'competitivenss' here. What does it mean within Cyrodiil experience. And how exactly my addon affects it.
Example: 'Me and 5 my friends were chasing 1 guy and he refused to die, because Miat's addon allowed him to dodge our attacks'.Zos may have unknowingly allowed you to exploit this code for your so called "convenience" due to their ignorance, but I highly doubt it was their original intent to allow this cheese. Their intent has always been that this game be based on skill. This addon violates that.
The addon promotes skillful play and reduces the amount of cheese related to shortcomings of the default interface. Sorry about that.
Advantage and convinience are not the same thing. I don't need to entertain this discussion because you admitted that you die less and have better sustainment. If you do, so does everyone else using it. By definition that is an advantage. I'll give you a simple example. If you are able to manage your resources better as to someone who doesn't have it, your more likely to win a fight. That's just common sense.
Your blind because your biased to your creation.
I can't tell you how many times people just dodge when they shouldn't have if they relied on skill, this leads to frustration in game play.Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is the defense gain from using this addon different for different builds?
Is the offense loss vs players using the addon different for different builds?
If the answer to any of the two questions is yes, the addon is unfair and does not belong to the game. No matter what you think should or should not be in the game or what other people should or should not do.
For the record, the answer is yes to both those questions in case someone would be stupid enough to not get it.Edited by SodanTok on April 15, 2017 6:09PM2 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Advantage and convinience are not the same thing. I don't need to entertain this discussion because you admitted that you die less and have better sustainment. If you do, so does everyone else using it. By definition that is an advantage. I'll give you a simple example. If you are able to manage your resources better as to someone who doesn't have it, your more likely to win a fight. That's just common sense.
This is an advantage of USING the addon as opposed to NOT using the addon applied to the fights against BOTH those who use it and who do not.
It is NOT an advantage of an 'addon-user' fighting a 'non-addon-user, unless i'm given an example of such.Your blind because your biased to your creation.
Or maybe i politely disagree with your assessment of the addon? I don't really think a person has to be blind (stupid, biased) to disagree.I can't tell you how many times people just dodge when they shouldn't have if they relied on skill, this leads to frustration in game play.
Yet again give me a use-case for this frustration. What exactly do you DO to get frustrated like this.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Is the defense gain from using this addon different for different builds?
Is the offense loss vs players using the addon different for different builds?
If the answer to any of the two questions is yes, the addon is unfair and does not belong to the game. No matter what you think should or should not be in the game or what other people should or should not do.
For the record, the answer is yes to both those questions in case someone would be stupid enough to not get it.
'Defense gains' should be exactly the same for different builds.
Offense losses would be different, but the attacker does NOT benefit from running the addon himself, thus it can't be a 'requirement' for him.Edited by Dorrino on April 15, 2017 8:59PM0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Advantage and convinience are not the same thing. I don't need to entertain this discussion because you admitted that you die less and have better sustainment. If you do, so does everyone else using it. By definition that is an advantage. I'll give you a simple example. If you are able to manage your resources better as to someone who doesn't have it, your more likely to win a fight. That's just common sense.
This is an advantage of USING the addon as opposed to NOT using the addon applied to the fights against BOTH those who use it and who do not.
It is NOT an advantage of an 'addon-user' fighting a 'non-addon-user, unless i'm given an example of such.Your blind because your biased to your creation.
Or maybe i politely disagree with your assessment of the addon? I don't really think a person has to be blind (stupid, biased) to disagree.I can't tell you how many times people just dodge when they shouldn't have if they relied on skill, this leads to frustration in game play.
Yet again give me a use-case for this frustration. What exactly do you DO to get frustrated like this.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Is the defense gain from using this addon different for different builds?
Is the offense loss vs players using the addon different for different builds?
If the answer to any of the two questions is yes, the addon is unfair and does not belong to the game. No matter what you think should or should not be in the game or what other people should or should not do.
For the record, the answer is yes to both those questions in case someone would be stupid enough to not get it.
'Defense gains' should be exactly the same for different builds.
Offense losses would be different, but the attacker does NOT benefit from running the addon himself, thus it can't be a 'requirement' for him.
Defense gain are definitely different. Sorc with shield and only small pool of stamina to dodge/block gains much more from getting warning crystal fragment is on him. Getting cced like that could be difference between living and dying. On other side, perma blockers gain nothing (not that i like their choice of build, but it is not up to me to decide what should or should not be done).
Attacker does not need to benefit from running the addon. I called it offense loss for that reason. OTHERS running that addon severely weaken offense of ranged character, the more skills the addon tracks the worse for him, on the other side, melee characters lose absolutely or almost nothing, because getting charged has already pretty obvious warning and even if blocked/dodged it still does what it is supposed to (move you).
So whatever you say about this addon. No matter how good are your intentions or excuses. The change alone it brings is unfair. And it is forced upon everyone. No matter if they use it or not.1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Interesting. I run a heavy attack build and was wondering why this week good players dodge it alot more than ever. Assassin's scourge and incap too? I'm going to download and try this, guess I have too. Oh can a notify come on for poison poison prices too like the ravage mag and or stam? Ty. Cheers.
I guess the addon still notifies the user when they are targeted by a heavy attack, only not from stealth? If that's how it works, that explains a few things...
I've noticed certain players dodge my heavy attacks in combat near 100% of the time. For context I'm running multiple abilities that distort my character's physical appearance, making it rather difficult to see simple animations like a heavy attack. I expect skilled players to notice and dodge these much of the time, but I've been noticing rather mediocre players dodging with extremely high success rates even when distracted with other things... Originally I just chalked it up to those players being better than I gave them credit for, now not so sure.
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Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »
Defense gain are definitely different. Sorc with shield and only small pool of stamina to dodge/block gains much more from getting warning crystal fragment is on him. Getting cced like that could be difference between living and dying. On other side, perma blockers gain nothing (not that i like their choice of build, but it is not up to me to decide what should or should not be done).
The gains are exactly same. It is irrelevant how much the specs NEED those gains.
If i give you 10$ if doesn't matter how much do you need those 10$ - in the result you're 10$ richer.
What happens here is the bottom level of EVERYBODY'S ability to defend themselves is increased by a slight margin.
Those having huge defenses won't have their effectiveness changed by much, those on the lower end will get a noticeable change. That is what i meant by 'you don't need it - you don't use it'.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Attacker does not need to benefit from running the addon. I called it offense loss for that reason. OTHERS running that addon severely weaken offense of ranged character, the more skills the addon tracks the worse for him,
Please describe to me an example of a combat situation where the offence of a ranged character (who are they again) is 'severely weakened'. Thank you.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »on the other side, melee characters lose absolutely or almost nothing, because getting charged has already pretty obvious warning and even if blocked/dodged it still does what it is supposed to (move you).
This is mostly incorrect. Ambushes never had any warnings, just like ani 'bugged' dizzing swings and melee heavies.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »So whatever you say about this addon. No matter how good are your intentions or excuses. The change alone it brings is unfair. And it is forced upon everyone. No matter if they use it or not.
Please describe the fair combat and how/why stealthed attacks and ranged attacks from behind fit into it. Thank you.Edited by Dorrino on April 15, 2017 11:10PM0 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭just report this addon a lot. Complain about it and the onvious disadvantage the people not using it is experiencing. Its as simple as that. If the developers let private biased players twitch the game experience to their own catering with the developers approvement its only going to end up bad for the developers. Why not give him MOD rights as well. Ive been playing this game since beta and this is the first time I experience a programme/addon which clearly gives the user a big advantage compared to the non user, and IF it is with zenimax' approval Im off3 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭The addon promotes skillful play and reduces the amount of cheese related to shortcomings of the default interface. Sorry about that.
Ummm ok well here is what I see when running a range build. Your opponent can run dodge roll, what, 7 or 8 times consecutively? That means that with a 100% effective dodge roll, you effectively have to force your opponent to dodge roll 7 or 8 times before you can land a projectile or cast time based hit on them. Which means any class that depends on those attacks (sorcs in particular) dont have a chance.
That seems way more one sided and cheesy than running range builds imo. Imo being able to one buttom counterplay everything is not skillful play at all.
You are basically saying you need to run continuous high burst against a player for 25 seconds continuously minimum while tanking all their incoming damage in order to be able to kill them.
Many class specs cant do that with an adequate escape or fall back plan.
Except nightblades, who can simply cloak out when things get rough.Edited by Cathexis on April 16, 2017 1:13AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭The more I read about this the more I get the impression this addon is mostly giving grief to the kind of players who spend their whole PvP time sniping people who are already getting mobbed by 5 other guys.
I dont see how this addon can possibly be a big deal in a "fair" fight, and that's coming from someone that doesnt actually use it (yet).3 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I dont gank at all. I play rather casually sometimes in a group and sometimes not. But, I am a bow user (main) and since this addon was known, more and more people dodge my attacks 100%. Not 50/50, or 8 out of 10, but 100/100 dodges for each HA, snipe or any targeted attacks I try. It doesnt matter if its from stealth, or if its from plain sight, in a zerg or solo. They dodge. Sometimes obviously its skilled players noticing im around, but when I in a keep defence target some people and they always. Always, dodge my HA or snipe, it makes my playstyle obsolete. This addon safely eliminates my attacks. Now is THAT fair?Edited by killimandrosb16_ESO on April 16, 2017 1:17AM1
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Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Complain about it and the onvious disadvantage the people not using it is experiencing. f
Yes! Please do it. Please describe these disadvantages. So far nobody was courageous enough to do that.Ummm ok well here is what I see when running a range build.
WHAT build are we talking about? What circumstances of using that build? Sniper on the roof? 1v1? 1vx? Please be as specific as possible. We all need to know what builds are getting the short end of the stick here!Your opponent can run dodge roll, what, 7 or 8 times consecutively?
6 times from max stam to zero. 1 more time with the potion.That means that with a 100% effective dodge roll, you effectively have to force your opponent to dodge roll 7 or 8 times before you can land a projectile or cast time based hit on them. Which means any class that depends on those attacks (sorcs in particular) dont have a chance.
If you manage to make your opponent to make 7 dodgerolls you've won. Isn't it the goal?You are basically saying you need to run continuous high burst against a player for 25 seconds continuously minimum while tanking all their incoming damage in order to be able to kill them.
You already described that you need to make them dodge 6-7 times.
Only 1 (one) skill of a mag sorc is tracked and this skill is visible enough to dodge it without the addon in 1v1.Except nightblades, who can simply cloak out when things get rough.
If nightblades could indeed 'simply cloak out when things get rough' they would've been the best class in the game.
Cloak is being countered by potions, general skills, class specific skills, any aoe and, as if this isn't enough, by a dozen of random skills having nothing to do without breaking cloak (like dk spiked armor).
But it's irrelevant:) What ranged classes are we talking about and in what circumstances (and don't forget 7 dodges to zero stam rule)?killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »This addon safely eliminates my attacks. Now is THAT fair?
This is as fair as those 9-10k snipes from stealth. Justify the snipes please.Edited by Dorrino on April 16, 2017 1:34AM0 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »can you please make an addon which gives me access to shadow image on a safe distance immediately when risking being hit by destro ulti. I want my whole WB to use that addon so we can all quickly teleport to safety before being hit. Logic you already applied. Or, even better, an addon which makes me autocast it whenever theres an enemy player yatgeting me, autoruns me into a good distance, autouses magelight so I see the enemy and autotargets make autoHA with autodots and auto execute, then autoteleports me back if target not dead. Logic is in your insightful posts. Anything which can actuall KILL any of the users of this addon is by default putting the user in a disadvantage and must therefore be countered automatically. Now Im gonna watch a movie, maybe the ending is less predictable. Jason Statham just MIGHT die. I suppose next step is an addon which hinders people riding into direction of high cliffs...they might jump
The main problem with this irony is that it is based on a 3rd party software pressing buttons for you, but my addons (and any addon in the game) can only inform the player about some events.
It is interesting that some people don't see the difference between perception and execution:)
But you do know that your addon is used in combination with such 3rd party software? I mean you can't be that naive for real.Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭But you do know that your addon is used in combination with such 3rd party software? I mean you can't be that naive for real.
I've said that multiple times, i'm going to say it again. For 2 years (omg) playing in NA TF i haven't seen a single person using a 3rd party software in pvp.1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But you do know that your addon is used in combination with such 3rd party software? I mean you can't be that naive for real.
I've said that multiple times, i'm going to say it again. For 2 years (omg) playing in NA TF i haven't seen a single person using a 3rd party software in pvp.
Edited by Idinuse on April 16, 2017 3:03AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?4 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »
Defense gain are definitely different. Sorc with shield and only small pool of stamina to dodge/block gains much more from getting warning crystal fragment is on him. Getting cced like that could be difference between living and dying. On other side, perma blockers gain nothing (not that i like their choice of build, but it is not up to me to decide what should or should not be done).
The gains are exactly same. It is irrelevant how much the specs NEED those gains.
If i give you 10$ if doesn't matter how much do you need those 10$ - in the result you're 10$ richer.
What happens here is the bottom level of EVERYBODY'S ability to defend themselves is increased by a slight margin.
Those having huge defenses won't have their effectiveness changed by much, those on the lower end will get a noticeable change. That is what i meant by 'you don't need it - you don't use it'.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Attacker does not need to benefit from running the addon. I called it offense loss for that reason. OTHERS running that addon severely weaken offense of ranged character, the more skills the addon tracks the worse for him,
Please describe to me an example of a combat situation where the offence of a ranged character (who are they again) is 'severely weakened'. Thank you.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »on the other side, melee characters lose absolutely or almost nothing, because getting charged has already pretty obvious warning and even if blocked/dodged it still does what it is supposed to (move you).
This is mostly incorrect. Ambushes never had any warnings, just like ani 'bugged' dizzing swings and melee heavies.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »So whatever you say about this addon. No matter how good are your intentions or excuses. The change alone it brings is unfair. And it is forced upon everyone. No matter if they use it or not.
Please describe the fair combat and how/why stealthed attacks and ranged attacks from behind fit into it. Thank you.
Are you sure you didnt hit yourself to head in the past? This is probably the worst and most stupid try to "argument" I have read on this forum.
Argument 1 with 10$ bill:
Lol what. IT IS EXACTLY VERY RELEVANT HOW MUCH YOU NEED THE GAINS. Giving 20k stamina to everyone would absolutely broke the game even if "everyone got 20k stamina richer so its the same gain"
Argument 2 with 'severely weakened' combat situation:
Ranged character shoots at someone. If that someone dodged/blocked/shielded BECAUSE of your addon, your addon lowered offense of ranged character.
Argument 3 with ambushes
It is called ambush for a reason.
Argument 4
Again your brain function went derp. The un/fairness of combat has zero relevance in this discussion. Your change is OBJECTIVELY and UNDENIABLY unfair. That is all what matters in this discussion. This is not nerf/buff that thread, this is your addon thread.
Your addon could literally disable shield stacking (feature I consider stronger than it should be) and your addon would still be unfair... hm why keep calling it so mildly... CHEAT.Edited by SodanTok on April 16, 2017 10:57AM0 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Complain about it and the onvious disadvantage the people not using it is experiencing. f
Yes! Please do it. Please describe these disadvantages. So far nobody was courageous enough to do that.killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »This addon safely eliminates my attacks. Now is THAT fair?
This is as fair as those 9-10k snipes from stealth. Justify the snipes please.
It didnt take much courage and I reported it a while ago....when you defended why you should be able to see stealthed players as well.
When it comes to snipe, you reveal yourself. So YOU personally, the OH mighty Dorrino DECIDES, not developers or the game company, but DORRINO the GREAT decides that RANGED attacks are UNFAIR and must be eliminated....you make me vomit you worm...I unstalled after reading and realizing you actually just DID this. You MADE the game cater to your OWN personal playstyle....you effectively REMOVED the scissor from the table, since you are PAPER
Edited by killimandrosb16_ESO on April 16, 2017 11:18AM6