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Miat's PVP Alerts just got updated! Now in 3D!
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »So, to the point. 'a heavy attack from behind' has distinct auditory cues, because the game, by design, INFORMS you about the attacks from all sides. The only difference between listening to the sounds and having a notification on your screen is just clarity.
This makes it sound like the add-on does the cognitive work of paying attention for the player.
Parsing out signals (specific auditory cues) from noise is a big part of situational awareness. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the add-on distills batlefield noise into one clear and unambiguous signal. If we consider that cultivating situational awareness is a part of the challenge of playing the game, how is this any different from a bot which plays parts of the game for the player?
That is the best part about it. He will tell you how not everyone is great at listening and so people, that are, have advantage and that is unfair. So he is helping everyone that wasnt blessed in life by money for best HW and best body parts to make PVP fair a better place for everyone! Then he waits for applause and photo shoots and removes himself to his chamber, probably to plan another charitable work, like giving every homeless person some palaces, so they can live in luxury like rich people.
Yes I actually find this a bit insulting. I have mild some mild impairments and ask for no quarter.
Just because you have an impairment doesn't mean you automatically need some hero to save you.
Contrary to popular belief, many of us are quite capable.Edited by Cathexis on April 13, 2017 4:17AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭
First of all, it picks up the players around you, who may later enter stealth, it doesn't necessarily remove them from that list if they enter stealth (I would assume you wouldn't intentionally design it with that sort of design flaw). That means you have a tactical edge in terms of knowing a player is there if you didn't see them prior to their entering stealth.
And i asked you to read the description:)
No it doesn't 'picks up the players around you'. At all. This was patched in Homestead as well.Second of all, there is a behind you, players can attack you out of range of your visual field. Behind you, above you, below you. Furthermore, range attacks have a wide variety of subtlety in terms of animation and queues, ranging from very obvious to very subtle. Whether or not the game allows it in the API is not something I am putting into question. Obviously you have access to it at the present time. The importance of the clarity of those attacks is what I am calling in to question.
To use visual field as a absolute reference point you first need to make sure different players have the same visual field both in dimensional (field of view angles, draw distance) and qualitative (graphics settings) properties. And this is obviously not true. Different players already have different pictures on their screens. Those who play without grass, godrays and lens flare have better visibility of the surroundings than those who, say, play on ultra settings (like myself). Smaller fov leads to narrower visual field as well. Thus 'behind you' is a relative term that depends on visual setup of the player. There's no absolute 'behind you' that can be a dark zone with no information coming out of it.You are removing the component of using observation skills to observe an attack that is outside of your focus
This phrase is an oxymoron. You cannot observe things outside of your focus.What visual warnings do is they allow you to react faster than you would normally be able to react, rendering them useless by their inherent design.
How come that you decided to substitute 'less effective' with 'useless'? Please elaborate. I cannot answer to an unsupported uselessness claim.
Next question, your description sounds like the major part why ranged attacks are strong is that you can fire them from outside of visual field of your target. How did it happen that this use-case became the defining property of ranged attacks?if you aren't anticipating an attack from range, and you are hit at a particular angle that is outside of your field of view, you have a lower probability of being able to evade that attack
This phrase is an oxymoron as well. You cannot anticipate an attack that is invisible. Unless by 'anticipate you meant 'listen to the sound cues', then it wasn't obvious.It eliminates all of the variability and tactics associated with range attacks, narrowing them to a simple one button reaction within a certain range of time.
It is still unclear what do you mean by variability here. An ability to freecast at somebody's back? I don't see what do that have to do with both 'variability and tactics'. Please elaborate.This is not an accessibility issue, the game client already provides you with necessary visual and auditory queues available to players. Access to them in the APIs should be removed.
I disagree that the client provides the necessary 'visual and auditory queues '. At multiple instances i find them severely lacking, thus it does NOT provide the necessary amount of those cues.(1) My point was that it already EXISTS in the 3d world, and so it isn't necessary, but if you need a big XMARKS THE SPOT hovering over a player, sure why not, go for it. I mean, its ridiculous, but it would still respect the idea that you would at least have to LOOK at the player and see that they are attacking you, or anticipate their attack. It would still be easier, but it would at least not completely eliminate the physical dimensions of play. Which is exactly why a three dimensional universe is better than a 2 dimensional one, because it inherently carries more complex game physics, which is what gives the game substance.
(2) Health bars in a 3d world aren't justified, but they are a standard rpg representation of what happens AFTER you are hit by an attack, not before. The game currently doesn't support any post attack representations more complicated than that, and there has to be some mechanic in place to calculate when you are hit by an attack, what it does to you. It does not have anything to do with pre-attack mechanics.
So in one cases you take a stance of rigid precedence of 3d world info over 2d interface, but in the other one you agree to receive that crucial information through the interface only. I think it's not arguable that hp information is more important than notifications for a small subset of incoming attacks, so why wouldn't you apply the same set of arguments against hp/resources/buff information we have? Just to be consistent?
Players instead of using skill to determine their hp levels just from the attacks they see and full screen effects on low health use no-brainer numbers in the middle of their screens! If i follow your logic i'd cry for zos help to remove those numbers (and bars) first and only then work on my notifications.
An 'rpg convention' argument has a problem that there's a 'mmo convention' when enemies castbars/buffs etc is available in the default interface for everybody. My notifications follow THAT trend. To use the interface to inform the player about the important stuff happening to him.(3) If range attacks were inherently equal to non range attacks in terms of their blockability, you would have no reason to make this addon. Range builds do not function in the same capacity as close range builds.
Their 'blockability is the same', the problem is to notice them.(4) Observing an opponent attacking you is a critical function of the game because if you can see them attacking you, you have a better idea of how to react. It plays a more marginal role in close range combat, but in long range combat it is a critical component because attacks can be countered in different ways that short range attacks can't. If observing your opponent doesn't play a critical role, why does the addon even exist. There are also many abilities which can't be animation cancelled, and the success rate is influenced heavily by if they are observed or not. Your concentration also is less divided when fighting multiple opponents. It is more difficult to observe what MANY opponents are doing at once without notifications. That requires practice and skill.
You seemed to have missed my point entirely here:( In this game there's a thing called animation canceling. Most attacks CAN be canceled. So what the player is supposed to observe if there's nothing to observe? When i do bow light+injection+dodge there's literally nothing to observe, but dodge. How exactly do you propose to apply the fabled 'skill' here?n long range combat it is a critical component because attacks can be countered in different ways that short range attacks can't
Not sure what do you mean here. Block/dodge/cloak apply to both of them equally.Yes but range attacks are not instant typically, often have cast times, and have many abilities which counterplay them.
On the contrary, ranged attacks are typically instant. Only the 'holy duo' (snipe, flare) has a cast time. And as you could've noticed if you actually tested the addon, both of them are not the critical attacks within the addon. You will see a text for them, but not 'omgyouneedtodosomething' type of notification, because they are indeed minor.
The major problem and thus the focus of the addon, is with spammable ranged attacks that cc the target.Range builds do not have the same build flexibility that melee does, and melee often doesn't offer times between the attack and the impact in which to react defensively.
Btw, i don't really know what do you mean by 'ranged builds' here. Mag sorcs? Because literally everything else is either a healer, a ganker or a melee spec. In pvp.No doubt you enjoy them, it allows you to run a melee nightblade without any deficits.
This phrase put a smile on my face:) Melee non-ganking nightblade is the weakest thing in pvp currently. It CONSISTS of deficits.It isn't a one sided play style, if you are getting killed by them, you have to run a build which counters them.
I'm sorry, i lost you here. Counters what exactly? A javelin/shock touch spammer?it eliminates range styles as a viable option
And yet again it sounds like the only thing that made(makes) 'ranged' builds (who are they, again) viable was an ability to attack their targets from outside target's field of view. Which sounds so weird that i'll ask you to elaborate again here.it effectively kills them completely by eliminating the entire element of reacting to things at a human cognitive level.
I'm sorry, but the player still needs to react to the notification. Exactly from his 'human cognitive level' since he's lacking other cognitive levels (hopefully).Edited by Dorrino on April 13, 2017 8:30AM0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
And yet again, the addon consists of about 10 features. These notifications is 1 feature out of 10. If i have to choose i'd pick 3d icons as the best feature i even done. Then kos/killfeed/database, then camp/death screen.
These are the features i really like. Notifications was what it started with, not what it ended up being.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
And yet again, the addon consists of about 10 features. These notifications is 1 feature out of 10. If i have to choose i'd pick 3d icons as the best feature i even done. Then kos/killfeed/database, then camp/death screen.
These are the features i really like. Notifications was what it started with, not what it ended up being.
the 3d icons was interesting, I got some lag though when using it (FPS lag) so i turned them off. KOS/Killfeed are honestly the best out of it.
The notification though is broken and shouldn't be possible.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
First of all, it picks up the players around you, who may later enter stealth, it doesn't necessarily remove them from that list if they enter stealth (I would assume you wouldn't intentionally design it with that sort of design flaw). That means you have a tactical edge in terms of knowing a player is there if you didn't see them prior to their entering stealth.
And i asked you to read the description:)
No it doesn't 'picks up the players around you'. At all. This was patched in Homestead as well.Second of all, there is a behind you, players can attack you out of range of your visual field. Behind you, above you, below you. Furthermore, range attacks have a wide variety of subtlety in terms of animation and queues, ranging from very obvious to very subtle. Whether or not the game allows it in the API is not something I am putting into question. Obviously you have access to it at the present time. The importance of the clarity of those attacks is what I am calling in to question.
To use visual field as a absolute reference point you first need to make sure different players have the same visual field both in dimensional (field of view angles, draw distance) and qualitative (graphics settings) properties. And this is obviously not true. Different players already have different pictures on their screens. Those who play without grass, godrays and lens flare have better visibility of the surroundings than those who, say, play on ultra settings (like myself). Smaller fov leads to narrower visual field as well. Thus 'behind you' is a relative term that depends on visual setup of the player. There's no absolute 'behind you' that can be a dark zone with no information coming out of it.You are removing the component of using observation skills to observe an attack that is outside of your focus
This phrase is an oxymoron. You cannot observe things outside of your focus.What visual warnings do is they allow you to react faster than you would normally be able to react, rendering them useless by their inherent design.
How come that you decided to substitute 'less effective' with 'useless'? Please elaborate. I cannot answer to an unsupported uselessness claim.
Next question, your description sounds like the major part why ranged attacks are strong is that you can fire them from outside of visual field of your target. How did it happen that this use-case became the defining property of ranged attacks?if you aren't anticipating an attack from range, and you are hit at a particular angle that is outside of your field of view, you have a lower probability of being able to evade that attack
This phrase is an oxymoron as well. You cannot anticipate an attack that is invisible. Unless by 'anticipate you meant 'listen to the sound cues', then it wasn't obvious.It eliminates all of the variability and tactics associated with range attacks, narrowing them to a simple one button reaction within a certain range of time.
It is still unclear what do you mean by variability here. An ability to freecast at somebody's back? I don't see what do that have to do with both 'variability and tactics'. Please elaborate.This is not an accessibility issue, the game client already provides you with necessary visual and auditory queues available to players. Access to them in the APIs should be removed.
I disagree that the client provides the necessary 'visual and auditory queues '. At multiple instances i find them severely lacking, thus it does NOT provide the necessary amount of those cues.(1) My point was that it already EXISTS in the 3d world, and so it isn't necessary, but if you need a big XMARKS THE SPOT hovering over a player, sure why not, go for it. I mean, its ridiculous, but it would still respect the idea that you would at least have to LOOK at the player and see that they are attacking you, or anticipate their attack. It would still be easier, but it would at least not completely eliminate the physical dimensions of play. Which is exactly why a three dimensional universe is better than a 2 dimensional one, because it inherently carries more complex game physics, which is what gives the game substance.
(2) Health bars in a 3d world aren't justified, but they are a standard rpg representation of what happens AFTER you are hit by an attack, not before. The game currently doesn't support any post attack representations more complicated than that, and there has to be some mechanic in place to calculate when you are hit by an attack, what it does to you. It does not have anything to do with pre-attack mechanics.
So in one cases you take a stance of rigid precedence of 3d world info over 2d interface, but in the other one you agree to receive that crucial information through the interface only. I think it's not arguable that hp information is more important than notifications for a small subset of incoming attacks, so why wouldn't you apply the same set of arguments against hp/resources/buff information we have? Just to be consistent?
Players instead of using skill to determine their hp levels just from the attacks they see and full screen effects on low health use no-brainer numbers in the middle of their screens! If i follow your logic i'd cry for zos help to remove those numbers (and bars) first and only then work on my notifications.
An 'rpg convention' argument has a problem that there's a 'mmo convention' when enemies castbars/buffs etc is available in the default interface for everybody. My notifications follow THAT trend. To use the interface to inform the player about the important stuff happening to him.(3) If range attacks were inherently equal to non range attacks in terms of their blockability, you would have no reason to make this addon. Range builds do not function in the same capacity as close range builds.
Their 'blockability is the same', the problem is to notice them.(4) Observing an opponent attacking you is a critical function of the game because if you can see them attacking you, you have a better idea of how to react. It plays a more marginal role in close range combat, but in long range combat it is a critical component because attacks can be countered in different ways that short range attacks can't. If observing your opponent doesn't play a critical role, why does the addon even exist. There are also many abilities which can't be animation cancelled, and the success rate is influenced heavily by if they are observed or not. Your concentration also is less divided when fighting multiple opponents. It is more difficult to observe what MANY opponents are doing at once without notifications. That requires practice and skill.
You seemed to have missed my point entirely here:( In this game there's a thing called animation canceling. Most attacks CAN be canceled. So what the player is supposed to observe if there's nothing to observe? When i do bow light+injection+dodge there's literally nothing to observe, but dodge. How exactly do you propose to apply the fabled 'skill' here?n long range combat it is a critical component because attacks can be countered in different ways that short range attacks can't
Not sure what do you mean here. Block/dodge/cloak apply to both of them equally.Yes but range attacks are not instant typically, often have cast times, and have many abilities which counterplay them.
On the contrary, ranged attacks are typically instant. Only the 'holy duo' (snipe, flare) has a cast time. And as you could've noticed if you actually tested the addon, both of them are not the critical attacks within the addon. You will see a text for them, but not 'omgyouneedtodosomething' type of notification, because they are indeed minor.
The major problem and thus the focus of the addon, is with spammable ranged attacks that cc the target.Range builds do not have the same build flexibility that melee does, and melee often doesn't offer times between the attack and the impact in which to react defensively.
Btw, i don't really know what do you mean by 'ranged builds' here. Mag sorcs? Because literally everything else is either a healer, a ganker or a melee spec. In pvp.No doubt you enjoy them, it allows you to run a melee nightblade without any deficits.
This phrase put a smile on my face:) Melee non-ganking nightblade is the weakest thing in pvp currently. It CONSISTS of deficits.It isn't a one sided play style, if you are getting killed by them, you have to run a build which counters them.
I'm sorry, i lost you here. Counters what exactly? A javelin/shock touch spammer?it eliminates range styles as a viable option
And yet again it sounds like the only thing that made(makes) 'ranged' builds (who are they, again) viable was an ability to attack their targets from outside target's field of view. Which sounds so weird that i'll ask you to elaborate again here.it effectively kills them completely by eliminating the entire element of reacting to things at a human cognitive level.
I'm sorry, but the player still needs to react to the notification. Exactly from his 'human cognitive level' since he's lacking other cognitive levels (hopefully).
> To use visual field as a absolute reference point you first need to make sure different players have the same visual field both in dimensional (field of view angles, draw distance) and qualitative (graphics settings) properties. And this is obviously not true. Different players already have different pictures on their screens. Those who play without grass, godrays and lens flare have better visibility of the surroundings than those who, say, play on ultra settings (like myself). Smaller fov leads to narrower visual field as well. Thus 'behind you' is a relative term that depends on visual setup of the player. There's no absolute 'behind you' that can be a dark zone with no information coming out of it.
That is absurd. There is a complete 'dark zone' to your point of view, and that is I believe 180 degrees on the highest settings. How do you justify the notification of someone standing behind you charging a bow attack? I highly doubt you would be able to hear it without external help (let's talk practice, not theory mkay) and no matter how good your settings are your FOV will not exceed 180 degrees. So how is that any fair? Just because the game gives out the information doesn't mean it's fair. I know this won't change anything, because self entitled players like you will crutch on anything in order to have the advantage, but shoot some arguments my way
> This phrase put a smile on my face:) Melee non-ganking nightblade is the weakest thing in pvp currently. It CONSISTS of deficits.
Proves what kind of player you are. 2h/bow medium nightblade is insanely good; some may say one of the best 1vX classes (Hexys on PC EU believes that is the case, and not to be biased or anything but he's very far outside your skill range). 2h/dw heavy nightblade is one of the best 1v1 specs if built and played correctly. Just because YOU can't play it doesn't mean it's bad. Yeah yeah you're AR 40 or whatever, who gives a damn tbh. If you make claims like those you really diminish your credibility, matey.
Also regarding the 'stealth has no counterplay' yes it does. Follow the stealther and kill it. Literally all builds that rely on stealth damage rely on running away, so don't let them. And claiming that stealth shouldn't offer any advantage is plain stupid, especially when you are playing AN MMO. WOW, SWTOR, Wildstar, you name it. All offer stealth classes, which give the stealther the advantage of the opener, if nothing else. Your addon completely negates that. Do you believe that sneaking behind someone in games like counter strike isn't balanced? Maybe they need an addon telling them when said player is aiming at their behinds. What a self centered way of thinking, mate. Try and justify it however you want, the reality is that no matter how good a headset you're using or how big your FOV is, you will NEVER hear a bow heavy or a fire heavy charge before it fires, ESPECIALLY if it's being charged behind you.
Oh and you're claiming that you're somehow fixing the imbalance ganking brings. I will ignore how much is wrong with that statement since you're not a developer working for ZOS, but I don't see you complaining about other imbalances like heavy armor or templar purge, perma block and melee magblades being absolutely non viable. Gonna make an addon for those too?Edited by Subversus on April 13, 2017 12:12PM4 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭if you aren't anticipating an attack from range, and you are hit at a particular angle that is outside of your field of view, you have a lower probability of being able to evade that attack
This phrase is an oxymoron as well. You cannot anticipate an attack that is invisible. Unless by 'anticipate you meant 'listen to the sound cues', then it wasn't obvious.(4) Observing an opponent attacking you is a critical function of the game because if you can see them attacking you, you have a better idea of how to react. It plays a more marginal role in close range combat, but in long range combat it is a critical component because attacks can be countered in different ways that short range attacks can't. If observing your opponent doesn't play a critical role, why does the addon even exist. There are also many abilities which can't be animation cancelled, and the success rate is influenced heavily by if they are observed or not. Your concentration also is less divided when fighting multiple opponents. It is more difficult to observe what MANY opponents are doing at once without notifications. That requires practice and skill.
You seemed to have missed my point entirely here:( In this game there's a thing called animation canceling. Most attacks CAN be canceled. So what the player is supposed to observe if there's nothing to observe? When i do bow light+injection+dodge there's literally nothing to observe, but dodge. How exactly do you propose to apply the fabled 'skill' here?it effectively kills them completely by eliminating the entire element of reacting to things at a human cognitive level.
I'm sorry, but the player still needs to react to the notification. Exactly from his 'human cognitive level' since he's lacking other cognitive levels (hopefully).
You cannot anticipate an attack that is invisible? There is a mystical ability which is called PREDICTION.
What can a player observer if there is nothing to observe? Each player has (hopefully) 10 skills and 2 ultimates with sorcerer having a 3rd bar if they use overload. You will know pretty damn quickly which skills the enemy will have and know how they will use it if they animation cancel. If an enemy has a bow and poison injection, if they back off and swap to their bow bar while intensely staring at you its pretty damn obvious about what they are going to do.
Also this add-on does remove an entire layer of skill. You don't need to know skills the enemy is running or need to predict such since it will literally tell you when to dodge and what you need to dodge. And just for the record, I don't run ganking / stealth attack reliant builds and never have.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still can't fathom how ARROGANT someone can be to be able to say "I don't like a certain play style therefore I will completely negate it by creating an outside program that counters it. I have now balanced the game to my liking". Mate, no matter what you say or how you spin this, you can't get around the fact that nobody can predict stealth heavy attacks. That is called exploiting the information the game leaks out, pure and simple. I also want an add on that counters heavy armor just because I don't like the meta, or an add on that counters Templar purge just because it's broken op, but I have to deal with it because I'm not a self centered coward.Edited by Subversus on April 13, 2017 5:41PM4 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭can you please make an addon which gives me access to shadow image on a safe distance immediately when risking being hit by destro ulti. I want my whole WB to use that addon so we can all quickly teleport to safety before being hit. Logic you already applied. Or, even better, an addon which makes me autocast it whenever theres an enemy player yatgeting me, autoruns me into a good distance, autouses magelight so I see the enemy and autotargets make autoHA with autodots and auto execute, then autoteleports me back if target not dead. Logic is in your insightful posts. Anything which can actuall KILL any of the users of this addon is by default putting the user in a disadvantage and must therefore be countered automatically. Now Im gonna watch a movie, maybe the ending is less predictable. Jason Statham just MIGHT die. I suppose next step is an addon which hinders people riding into direction of high cliffs...they might jumpEdited by killimandrosb16_ESO on April 13, 2017 8:22PM2
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Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@killimandrosb16_ESO exactly lmfao. This dude is hilarious, I can't believe anyone could be this arrogant... ah well, all we can do anyway is wait for ZOS to take some action, as this is obviously not intended. Only reason it hasn't been fixed so far is because it might be hard to not make heavy attacks visible, as that might mess up other things like dots and debuffs, as some other dude said. It is negating a whole style of play, it's obviously not intended. He won't remove it though, as he's obviously the kind of player who crutches onto anything possible.2 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭
That is absurd. There is a complete 'dark zone' to your point of view, and that is I believe 180 degrees on the highest settings.
It's more than that even on the highest settings.How do you justify the notification of someone standing behind you charging a bow attack?
Easily. This attack is directed on me, thus i have to be informed about it.
The game already does it with the sound. I added a visual notification to it.I highly doubt you would be able to hear it without external help (let's talk practice, not theory mkay) and no matter how good your settings are your FOV will not exceed 180 degrees. So how is that any fair? Just because the game gives out the information doesn't mean it's fair.
The fact it is directed at you makes it fair. The LACK on this notification - that what makes these attacks unfair.I know this won't change anything, because self entitled players like you will crutch on anything in order to have the advantage, but shoot some arguments my way
1. Personal insults will get you a suspension on the forums at the best case.
2. 'self entitled players' seeking personal advantage don't share said advantage with everybody.Proves what kind of player you are. 2h/bow medium nightblade is insanely good; some may say one of the best 1vX classes (Hexys on PC EU believes that is the case, and not to be biased or anything but he's very far outside your skill range).
This opinion demonstrates the level of credibility 'Hexys on PC EU' has.he's very far outside your skill range
I really want to find at least one person 'outside of my skill range'. Since 'Hexys on PC EU' apparently have problems understanding relative strength of med stamina nighblades in the current meta, i won't be able to find anything outside of my skill range there as well. Unfortunately.2h/dw heavy nightblade is one of the best 1v1 specs if built and played correctly.
Heavy stamblades are good in 1v1 because heavy is good in 1v1. Heavy stamblades in 1v1 don't even use cloak, so all the abovementioned deficiencies of stamblades can't be applied to that spec.Just because YOU can't play it doesn't mean it's bad.
I only play stamina nightblade in pvp.If you make claims like those you really diminish your credibility, matey.
Unfortunately it takes some level of proficiency to understand those claims, 'matey'.Also regarding the 'stealth has no counterplay' yes it does.
Stealth has a huge variety of counterplays. Oneshot gankers don't.claiming that stealth shouldn't offer any advantage is plain stupid, especially when you are playing AN MMO. WOW, SWTOR, Wildstar, you name it.
Stealth already provides a huge advantage of not being seen. In this game stealth has additional perks, that make it much stronger than in most other games.Do you believe that sneaking behind someone in games like counter strike isn't balanced?
Even though CS example is not relevant to the subject, there's a qualitative difference between 'sneaking' in cs go and being perma invisible in eso. Imagine you could have an invisibility in cs go and ask the same question.Maybe they need an addon telling them when said player is aiming at their behinds.
If cs go was an open-world large scale pvp game - then this addon would be necessary.Oh and you're claiming that you're somehow fixing the imbalance ganking brings. I will ignore how much is wrong with that statement since you're not a developer working for ZOS, but I don't see you complaining about other imbalances like heavy armor or templar purge, perma block and melee magblades being absolutely non viable. Gonna make an addon for those too?
I would do that if it was possbile.I still can't fathom how ARROGANT someone can be to be able to say "I don't like a certain play style therefore I will completely negate it by creating an outside program that counters it.
Yep, that would be quite arrogant. Not sure how it is related to the subject.Mate, no matter what you say or how you spin this, you can't get around the fact that nobody can predict stealth heavy attacks.
If you, 'mate', took a bit of your time to read the description, you, 'mate' would have found out that the addon does NOT notify about heavies from stealth. Sorry, 'mate'.There is a mystical ability which is called PREDICTION.
I'd love to hear details about a strategy to predict an attack from an invisible player in a 5 min window.2 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »can you please make an addon which gives me access to shadow image on a safe distance immediately when risking being hit by destro ulti. I want my whole WB to use that addon so we can all quickly teleport to safety before being hit. Logic you already applied. Or, even better, an addon which makes me autocast it whenever theres an enemy player yatgeting me, autoruns me into a good distance, autouses magelight so I see the enemy and autotargets make autoHA with autodots and auto execute, then autoteleports me back if target not dead. Logic is in your insightful posts. Anything which can actuall KILL any of the users of this addon is by default putting the user in a disadvantage and must therefore be countered automatically. Now Im gonna watch a movie, maybe the ending is less predictable. Jason Statham just MIGHT die. I suppose next step is an addon which hinders people riding into direction of high cliffs...they might jump
The main problem with this irony is that it is based on a 3rd party software pressing buttons for you, but my addons (and any addon in the game) can only inform the player about some events.
It is interesting that some people don't see the difference between perception and execution:)0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
And yet again, the addon consists of about 10 features. These notifications is 1 feature out of 10. If i have to choose i'd pick 3d icons as the best feature i even done. Then kos/killfeed/database, then camp/death screen.
These are the features i really like. Notifications was what it started with, not what it ended up being.
the 3d icons was interesting, I got some lag though when using it (FPS lag) so i turned them off. KOS/Killfeed are honestly the best out of it.
The notification though is broken and shouldn't be possible.
I agree that the notification shouldn´t be possible.
However the game should always play snipe animations and sounds.
It should always play CF / darkflare animations.
It should make projectile bow heavyattacks more recognizeable (it deals the same dmg as a fireheavy - it should be as visible).
Since all the heavyattack and castskill information the game provides you with is either unreliable or flatout bugged to the point where it´s unusable (macroslice anyone) i prefer having an addon that actually tells me whats going on.
And i say that as a magsorc that gets all their fragments dodged due to this addon.Edited by Derra on April 13, 2017 10:00PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why is no one bothered by the fact that Miat and his friends developed and tested it on people who had no idea they could be seen from stealth, and the other indications the addon gives? Why is no one freaked out by that? Why doesn't anyone care that unsuspecting people had their combat experience in Cyrodiil messed with in the development of this addon? Call me old fashioned but that violates a lot of boundaries.
Its been said that when an addon goes live, its because a better one is in development/being tested....so um...unsettling, ya?Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!3 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That is absurd. There is a complete 'dark zone' to your point of view, and that is I believe 180 degrees on the highest settings.
It's more than that even on the highest settings.How do you justify the notification of someone standing behind you charging a bow attack?
Easily. This attack is directed on me, thus i have to be informed about it.
The game already does it with the sound. I added a visual notification to it.I highly doubt you would be able to hear it without external help (let's talk practice, not theory mkay) and no matter how good your settings are your FOV will not exceed 180 degrees. So how is that any fair? Just because the game gives out the information doesn't mean it's fair.
The fact it is directed at you makes it fair. The LACK on this notification - that what makes these attacks unfair.I know this won't change anything, because self entitled players like you will crutch on anything in order to have the advantage, but shoot some arguments my way
1. Personal insults will get you a suspension on the forums at the best case.
2. 'self entitled players' seeking personal advantage don't share said advantage with everybody.Proves what kind of player you are. 2h/bow medium nightblade is insanely good; some may say one of the best 1vX classes (Hexys on PC EU believes that is the case, and not to be biased or anything but he's very far outside your skill range).
This opinion demonstrates the level of credibility 'Hexys on PC EU' has.he's very far outside your skill range
I really want to find at least one person 'outside of my skill range'. Since 'Hexys on PC EU' apparently have problems understanding relative strength of med stamina nighblades in the current meta, i won't be able to find anything outside of my skill range there as well. Unfortunately.2h/dw heavy nightblade is one of the best 1v1 specs if built and played correctly.
Heavy stamblades are good in 1v1 because heavy is good in 1v1. Heavy stamblades in 1v1 don't even use cloak, so all the abovementioned deficiencies of stamblades can't be applied to that spec.Just because YOU can't play it doesn't mean it's bad.
I only play stamina nightblade in pvp.If you make claims like those you really diminish your credibility, matey.
Unfortunately it takes some level of proficiency to understand those claims, 'matey'.Also regarding the 'stealth has no counterplay' yes it does.
Stealth has a huge variety of counterplays. Oneshot gankers don't.claiming that stealth shouldn't offer any advantage is plain stupid, especially when you are playing AN MMO. WOW, SWTOR, Wildstar, you name it.
Stealth already provides a huge advantage of not being seen. In this game stealth has additional perks, that make it much stronger than in most other games.Do you believe that sneaking behind someone in games like counter strike isn't balanced?
Even though CS example is not relevant to the subject, there's a qualitative difference between 'sneaking' in cs go and being perma invisible in eso. Imagine you could have an invisibility in cs go and ask the same question.Maybe they need an addon telling them when said player is aiming at their behinds.
If cs go was an open-world large scale pvp game - then this addon would be necessary.Oh and you're claiming that you're somehow fixing the imbalance ganking brings. I will ignore how much is wrong with that statement since you're not a developer working for ZOS, but I don't see you complaining about other imbalances like heavy armor or templar purge, perma block and melee magblades being absolutely non viable. Gonna make an addon for those too?
I would do that if it was possbile.I still can't fathom how ARROGANT someone can be to be able to say "I don't like a certain play style therefore I will completely negate it by creating an outside program that counters it.
Yep, that would be quite arrogant. Not sure how it is related to the subject.Mate, no matter what you say or how you spin this, you can't get around the fact that nobody can predict stealth heavy attacks.
If you, 'mate', took a bit of your time to read the description, you, 'mate' would have found out that the addon does NOT notify about heavies from stealth. Sorry, 'mate'.There is a mystical ability which is called PREDICTION.
I'd love to hear details about a strategy to predict an attack from an invisible player in a 5 min window.
> Stealth already provides a huge advantage of not being seen. In this game stealth has additional perks, that make it much stronger than in most other games.
Perks that you completely negate.
The simple words PC and EU should make it clear what skill level I am talking about, seeing as I talk with someone from NA. You know very well that people from EU transfer to NA because your potatoes are so juicy. I just gave you an example of an excellent stamina nightblade player. If you disagree that med stamblade is not good 1vX then you're obviously bad at the only class you're playing, it's pretty much a l2p from here, matey.
Oh and why should I waste my time reading your BS addon's description? That's what it used to do. If you changed it now (doubt you did, if it's changed then ZOS probably did it for you. No player of your caliber would willingly give away their legal cheats) then I wouldn't know since it doesn't affect me. What affects me is your arrogance and self centered attitude. I didn't even know who tf you were before this, some random NB from NA, like wow ok mate.
Oh be sure to stop by Hexy's stream some time, he'll be sure to give you some tips on how to play your only class, matey.Sheezabeast wrote: »Why is no one bothered by the fact that Miat and his friends developed and tested it on people who had no idea they could be seen from stealth, and the other indications the addon gives? Why is no one freaked out by that? Why doesn't anyone care that unsuspecting people had their combat experience in Cyrodiil messed with in the development of this addon? Call me old fashioned but that violates a lot of boundaries.
Its been said that when an addon goes live, its because a better one is in development/being tested....so um...unsettling, ya?
Exactly. His cheats might've been somewhat patched, but that's probably just the portion he released. And he calls himself a good nightblade, what a joke.Edited by Subversus on April 13, 2017 11:25PM2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Miat try playing without your addon for one week.
That will explain all there needs to be with how imbalanced it is and how information like that should be removed from the client.
I've watched you flat out dodge attacks that you have zero business dodging because they came from behind and you knew they were coming even though you were facing a completely different direction.
This would get anyone else who wasn't running your addon killed 9/10
I actually do, from time to time, when i test things.
I die a bit more often. My stam sustain is a bit worse. That's more or less it. The addon provides the convenience i enjoy, but this convenience is nowhere close to necessity.
And yet again, the addon consists of about 10 features. These notifications is 1 feature out of 10. If i have to choose i'd pick 3d icons as the best feature i even done. Then kos/killfeed/database, then camp/death screen.
These are the features i really like. Notifications was what it started with, not what it ended up being.
the 3d icons was interesting, I got some lag though when using it (FPS lag) so i turned them off. KOS/Killfeed are honestly the best out of it.
The notification though is broken and shouldn't be possible.
I agree that the notification shouldn´t be possible.
However the game should always play snipe animations and sounds.
It should always play CF / darkflare animations.
It should make projectile bow heavyattacks more recognizeable (it deals the same dmg as a fireheavy - it should be as visible).
Since all the heavyattack and castskill information the game provides you with is either unreliable or flatout bugged to the point where it´s unusable (macroslice anyone) i prefer having an addon that actually tells me whats going on.
And i say that as a magsorc that gets all their fragments dodged due to this addon.
These animations "work" that way for everyone and in heat of battle they (when they are working as supposed to be) easily missable. Having this addon "to fix" these rather small issues while getting huge advantage over anyone else in all situations does not somehow making forgivable. Even if you say it as magsorc that has one hard hitting, often cheap and often instacastble skill dodged because of it.
It is not like this addon removes 90% of your damage output...Edited by SodanTok on April 13, 2017 11:34PM0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Perks that you completely negate.
You attribute me way too much, i do appreciate your flattery though:)The simple words PC and EU should make it clear what skill level I am talking about, seeing as I talk with someone from NA. You know very well that people from EU transfer to NA because your potatoes are so juicy. I just gave you an example of an excellent stamina nightblade player. If you disagree that med stamblade is not good 1vX then you're obviously bad at the only class you're playing, it's pretty much a l2p from here, matey.
Judging by his videos there's nothing interesting there. If you want to use the guy as an example - please bring him here. Otherwise you're kinda setting up a probably good guy by misinterpreting his statements. Try not to embarrass him anymore please.Oh and why should I waste my time reading your BS addon's description?
A better question is why do you have to be aggressive here?:) You're passionately arguing a point that is not valid. Try to be more on point in the future.What affects me is your arrogance and self centered attitude. I didn't even know who tf you were before this, some random NB from NA, like wow ok mate.
So you feel triggered by some guy that made an interface addition to the game that you didn't like for whatever reason. And the guy is not even sorry:D I can related to that.Oh be sure to stop by Hexy's stream some time, he'll be sure to give you some tips on how to play your only class, matey.
I actually just did. Decent nightblade, nothing stellar. I'm sorry:)Sheezabeast wrote: »Why is no one bothered by the fact that Miat and his friends developed and tested it on people who had no idea they could be seen from stealth, and the other indications the addon gives? Why is no one freaked out by that? Why doesn't anyone care that unsuspecting people had their combat experience in Cyrodiil messed with in the development of this addon? Call me old fashioned but that violates a lot of boundaries.
Its been said that when an addon goes live, its because a better one is in development/being tested....so um...unsettling, ya?
Imagine all that just to UNFAIRLY kill people in an mmo:D People are so mean!
Edited by Dorrino on April 14, 2017 12:48AM1 -
Smolt✭✭✭@Dorrino
Are there any attacks from stealth that this addon gives notification for? Again thanks for not keeping this a secret like some did with Cheat Engine for so long. Also, what class do you think this addon helps the most? I'm thinking stam dk s&b (using crit rush), but idk just trying to figure what the new meta is with this addon. Also, do you have further plans for balancing the game to your liking via third party software?I really want to find at least one person 'outside of my skill range'. Since 'Hexys on PC EU' apparently have problems understanding relative strength of med stamina nighblades in the current meta, i won't be able to find anything outside of my skill range there as well. Unfortunately.
Also, does this mean you are the best in ESO or the worst? It's impressive either way!
Edited by Smolt on April 14, 2017 1:08AM0 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Perks that you completely negate.
You attribute me way too much, i do appreciate your flattery though:)The simple words PC and EU should make it clear what skill level I am talking about, seeing as I talk with someone from NA. You know very well that people from EU transfer to NA because your potatoes are so juicy. I just gave you an example of an excellent stamina nightblade player. If you disagree that med stamblade is not good 1vX then you're obviously bad at the only class you're playing, it's pretty much a l2p from here, matey.
Judging by his videos there's nothing interesting there. If you want to use the guy as an example - please bring him here. Otherwise you're kinda setting up a probably good guy by misinterpreting his statements. Try not to embarrass him anymore please.Oh and why should I waste my time reading your BS addon's description?
A better question is why do you have to be aggressive here?:) You're passionately arguing a point that is not valid. Try to be more on point in the future.What affects me is your arrogance and self centered attitude. I didn't even know who tf you were before this, some random NB from NA, like wow ok mate.
So you feel triggered by some guy that made an interface addition to the game that you didn't like for whatever reason. And the guy is not even sorry:D I can related to that.Oh be sure to stop by Hexy's stream some time, he'll be sure to give you some tips on how to play your only class, matey.
I actually just did. Decent nightblade, nothing stellar. I'm sorry:)Sheezabeast wrote: »Why is no one bothered by the fact that Miat and his friends developed and tested it on people who had no idea they could be seen from stealth, and the other indications the addon gives? Why is no one freaked out by that? Why doesn't anyone care that unsuspecting people had their combat experience in Cyrodiil messed with in the development of this addon? Call me old fashioned but that violates a lot of boundaries.
Its been said that when an addon goes live, its because a better one is in development/being tested....so um...unsettling, ya?
Imagine all that just to UNFAIRLY kill people in an mmo:D People are so mean!
Only a complete tool would downplay unsportsmanlike behavior.
*golf clap*Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!2 -
Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭LoL, subversus' fanboy level is over 9000. that drooling over hexiss is really disgusting, please stop
@Dorrino thank you for the add-on, especially the icon HUD is marvelous! The attack notifications are cool as well, especially that you reveal the type of attack. Dodge Notifications are as old as eso is though, so the people complaining here really have no clue about the game's API and need to l2read the documentation.
PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭@Dorrino
Are there any attacks from stealth that this addon gives notification for? Again thanks for not keeping this a secret like some did with Cheat Engine for so long. Also, what class do you think this addon helps the most? I'm thinking stam dk s&b (using crit rush), but idk just trying to figure what the new meta is with this addon. Also, do you have further plans for balancing the game to your liking via third party software?I really want to find at least one person 'outside of my skill range'. Since 'Hexys on PC EU' apparently have problems understanding relative strength of med stamina nighblades in the current meta, i won't be able to find anything outside of my skill range there as well. Unfortunately.
Also, does this mean you are the best in ESO or the worst? It's impressive either way!
Even though you keep trolling i'll answer this.
1. The addon helps literally everybody including gankers.
2. There're zero players on NA TF that i've seen using Cheat Engine. I still consider it rumors outside of single cases that were promptly fixed.
3. Again and again. I never 'balanced' the game. I just can't. I provided a more clear interface about some pvp related events.
I do NOT share the view, that combat has to be obscure. The only people who could possibly 'suffer' in the result of a widespread usage of my addon are those who's playstyle relied on exploiting shortcomings of the default interface. I find these playstyles unsportmanlike and cheesy. Sorry about that. Or, as some people tend to say - 'git gud'.
4. That means that i don't find people unmanageble in pvp. Some are stronger, most are weaker, but all are winnable.@Dorrino thank you for the add-on, especially the icon HUD is marvelous!
Thank you:) It's been a lot of hard work to make it happen.Edited by Dorrino on April 14, 2017 1:44AM0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Dorrino
I think you are making the assumption that I think you are hacking or doing something that isn't explicitly currently available in the game system. I'm not, that's not what I'm arguing. The argument I'm making is this- You have tapped into ambiguous areas of the game that are not readily available to the ui, that specifically give you a tactical advantage by reducing the complexity of particular combat mechanics, and that compliments your play style to the disadvantage of others.
- Doing that is reductionist and it is simplifying an elegant and interesting component of the game to a "push X now to counter" style of combat that drastically reduces not only the skill involved in fighting, and by relation the overall quality of the game.
And i asked you to read the description:)
No it doesn't 'picks up the players around you'. At all. This was patched in Homestead as well.
Fine, sure, lets say it doesn't, it still picks up players and records them through some form of interaction. No doubt you have reserved the most effective method for your own version of the addon. The list isn't really something I have a problem with as much, other than it adding you if you haven't even observed the player. Generally, if you have interacted directly with the player and it keeps them in a list on your screen, I don't think that's such a big issue - you can basically identify the same thing by recognizing commonly found opposing groups of players with your brain. I mean, its still kind of cheese, but its not something outside of human capacity, and it doesn't generally affect gameplay at that level.To use visual field as a absolute reference point you first need to make sure different players have the same visual field both in dimensional (field of view angles, draw distance) and qualitative (graphics settings) properties. And this is obviously not true. Different players already have different pictures on their screens. Those who play without grass, godrays and lens flare have better visibility of the surroundings than those who, say, play on ultra settings (like myself). Smaller fov leads to narrower visual field as well. Thus 'behind you' is a relative term that depends on visual setup of the player. There's no absolute 'behind you' that can be a dark zone with no information coming out of it.
Dude, I run on THE LOWEST SPEC MACHINE YOU CAN RUN and play effectively, and you can run with a maximum visual field
at 50+ frames (or at least the minimum 70 which is required). You can choose to play on lower settings if you wish, if your game settings do not allow you to see correctly in front of you. Just because what is behind you may vary based on certain variables, doesn't inherently mean that every player doesn't have a blind spot behind them. The field of view does not encompass a 360' exact overlay of the rendered area around your character. Certainly I would say that at minimum you could say there is definitely a blind spot at exactly 180' behind you at all times, irrespective of the variability of field of view from player to player. There are no standard game settings you can adjust which will completely diminish your blind spot, nor that will circumvent being attacked by players in stealth (for this example we will say at range). That is what your addon is doing.This phrase is an oxymoron. You cannot observe things outside of your focus.
You can observe things outside your focus it is called anticipating possible outcomes and adjusting your play style to accommodate. It is a skill that you have to develop when you play this game under normal conditions.How come that you decided to substitute 'less effective' with 'useless'? Please elaborate. I cannot answer to an unsupported uselessness claim.
Useless, because in the current meta you can build for infinite roll dodge and as long as your reaction time is faster than the window of the beginning of the channel to the end of the attack, you can dodge it. What your addon does is it eliminates the need to identify that the attack is happening, even if under normal conditions you can't, or if that would normally be delayed. So that window is increased to such an extent that a player effectively can't hit you with a range attack. It is essentially the roll dodge equivalent of block/heal cancer tanks.Next question, your description sounds like the major part why ranged attacks are strong is that you can fire them from outside of visual field of your target. How did it happen that this use-case became the defining property of ranged attacks?
It became the defining property of them because they were developed that way. That's how they work, it's what makes them use-able. Once you can effectively permanently counter them, it renders using them pointless. You are thinking it's like "oh sometimes dodge-able attacks hit me, and that's not fair." But the reason they are hitting you is because you are doing tactically erroneous things with regard to exposing yourself to range attacks, I'm not saying that like "oh L2P" I'm saying that like you misinterpreted a situation and died and that's a normal consequence of the game. Where the real problems are is when a player can run a tactic that is effectively un-counterable, and that's what warnings do to range builds.
The problem I am trying to make you understand is that the quality of the dynamics of combat are deminished when you no longer have to face some aspect of the game that would normally require you to make a potentially erroneous decision. It then becomes toxic for the game when it provides an advantage for select players either because they are running a specific application, and even further if it runs in compliment to a play style which is typically disadvantaged by range builds.This phrase is an oxymoron as well. You cannot anticipate an attack that is invisible. Unless by 'anticipate you meant 'listen to the sound cues', then it wasn't obvious.
As I have explained, you can do this, it is possible without the help of an addon. It just isn't 100% infallible and reliable. It is called using your judgement, and it is the discerning difference between an experienced player and an inexperienced one.It is still unclear what do you mean by variability here. An ability to freecast at somebody's back? I don't see what do that have to do with both 'variability and tactics'. Please elaborate.
No, it is because you play on a three dimensional plane with varied combat, and you have to think about every situation, not just the ones you are good at or the ones that you like or agree with. By this logic, we should all only be using light attacks naked. But then you wouldn't be able to run a particular advantage over another player. And as I've said, you can interpret when you are being attacked from behind. I do it regularly, I can tell you there are zergs or individual groups of players that regularly come at me from behind and I am mindful of that and anticipate when it is coming when I am on top of my game. I don't always avoid it, but I am quite skilled at it because it is something I practice, and have for quite a long time.I disagree that the client provides the necessary 'visual and auditory queues '. At multiple instances i find them severely lacking, thus it does NOT provide the necessary amount of those cues.
Then turn up your volume, adjust your brightness, adjust your settings, learn to recognize warning signs and think about combat while it is happening.So in one cases you take a stance of rigid precedence of 3d world info over 2d interface, but in the other one you agree to receive that crucial information through the interface only. I think it's not arguable that hp information is more important than notifications for a small subset of incoming attacks, so why wouldn't you apply the same set of arguments against hp/resources/buff information we have? Just to be consistent?
Players instead of using skill to determine their hp levels just from the attacks they see and full screen effects on low health use no-brainer numbers in the middle of their screens! If i follow your logic i'd cry for zos help to remove those numbers (and bars) first and only then work on my notifications.
An 'rpg convention' argument has a problem that there's a 'mmo convention' when enemies castbars/buffs etc is available in the default interface for everybody. My notifications follow THAT trend. To use the interface to inform the player about the important stuff happening to him.
You are trying to compare apples and oranges, just because you put them in a bowl and call them fruit doesn't mean they are the same.
They are two completely different mechanics.
Just because they both can be represented on a ui, doesn't mean they should be both represented on a ui.
Otherwise we could do away with the entire 3 dimensional environment and when one player sees another you can just have a pop up that says "Press X now to execute a 10 button combo to kill!"
That's the point I'm trying to make, translating combat mechanics into 2 dimensional ui variables simplifies combat and takes away from the complex things in the game that make them require skill and offer a unique sense of play.Their 'blockability is the same', the problem is to notice them.
Yes their blockability is the same, you are right. Just because they can both be blocked doesn't make them equal. Are a light attack and a meteor equal because they can both be blocked? No.You seemed to have missed my point entirely here:( In this game there's a thing called animation canceling. Most attacks CAN be canceled. So what the player is supposed to observe if there's nothing to observe? When i do bow light+injection+dodge there's literally nothing to observe, but dodge. How exactly do you propose to apply the fabled 'skill' here?
As I've said before you can anticipate possible outcomes and adjust your play style to accommodate.
That is where the problem comes in with your addon. If you addon blocks me from being able to accomodate for your play style, fighting you isn't really fighting you. It's just a one sided fallacy, because there is no opportunity for counterplay.Not sure what do you mean here. Block/dodge/cloak apply to both of them equally.
...
On the contrary, ranged attacks are typically instant. Only the 'holy duo' (snipe, flare) has a cast time. And as you could've noticed if you actually tested the addon, both of them are not the critical attacks within the addon. You will see a text for them, but not 'omgyouneedtodosomething' type of notification, because they are indeed minor.
Yes they do, among other things. And the way they are applied dramatically affects their effectiveness.
Which is why making them 100% reliable hard counters defeats the whole purpose of range attacks.Btw, i don't really know what do you mean by 'ranged builds' here. Mag sorcs? Because literally everything else is either a healer, a ganker or a melee spec. In pvp.
Now you are just attacking with semantics.
Those are subjective role categories of play styles that players tend to gravitate toward, so yeah they have merit.
Who is playing them by majority is inconsequential to the argument.
If it is mostly mag sorcs, then your addon is effectively just there to protect players from people who play mag sorcs or ganks.
Except, that's a component of the game.This phrase put a smile on my face:) Melee non-ganking nightblade is the weakest thing in pvp currently. It CONSISTS of deficits.
That depends on what you are trying to do with it. Certainly, it isn't the weakest thing. My level 8 nightblade was able to push out as much burst dps as my lvl 50 max pvp champion stam sorc. So that's just blatantly not true at all.
Range styles in general.I'm sorry, i lost you here. Counters what exactly? A javelin/shock touch spammer?
The thing we are talking about.And yet again it sounds like the only thing that made(makes) 'ranged' builds (who are they, again) viable was an ability to attack their targets from outside target's field of view. Which sounds so weird that i'll ask you to elaborate again here
I already have, read above.I'm sorry, but the player still needs to react to the notification. Exactly from his 'human cognitive level' since he's lacking other cognitive levels (hopefully).
You aren't reacting to the attack at a human level using an addon that notifies you of projectiles, you are reacting to the thing that flashes on your screen in front of you, that is ALWAYS in your field of view, ALWAYS in a predictable location, and does not require you to use any kind of foresight or observe elements of the 3 dimension plane of combat from where the attack originates.
There is a significant difference between reacting to a toast notification, and reacting to an attack on a 3d plane, its called practice and skill.Edited by Cathexis on April 14, 2017 3:25AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also as a side note that has already come up, range builds are currently one of the best ways to engage a zerg ungrouped or solo. I would argue they are one of the very few means that remain even marginally effective in some capacity.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sheezabeast wrote: »Perks that you completely negate.
You attribute me way too much, i do appreciate your flattery though:)The simple words PC and EU should make it clear what skill level I am talking about, seeing as I talk with someone from NA. You know very well that people from EU transfer to NA because your potatoes are so juicy. I just gave you an example of an excellent stamina nightblade player. If you disagree that med stamblade is not good 1vX then you're obviously bad at the only class you're playing, it's pretty much a l2p from here, matey.
Judging by his videos there's nothing interesting there. If you want to use the guy as an example - please bring him here. Otherwise you're kinda setting up a probably good guy by misinterpreting his statements. Try not to embarrass him anymore please.Oh and why should I waste my time reading your BS addon's description?
A better question is why do you have to be aggressive here?:) You're passionately arguing a point that is not valid. Try to be more on point in the future.What affects me is your arrogance and self centered attitude. I didn't even know who tf you were before this, some random NB from NA, like wow ok mate.
So you feel triggered by some guy that made an interface addition to the game that you didn't like for whatever reason. And the guy is not even sorry:D I can related to that.Oh be sure to stop by Hexy's stream some time, he'll be sure to give you some tips on how to play your only class, matey.
I actually just did. Decent nightblade, nothing stellar. I'm sorry:)Sheezabeast wrote: »Why is no one bothered by the fact that Miat and his friends developed and tested it on people who had no idea they could be seen from stealth, and the other indications the addon gives? Why is no one freaked out by that? Why doesn't anyone care that unsuspecting people had their combat experience in Cyrodiil messed with in the development of this addon? Call me old fashioned but that violates a lot of boundaries.
Its been said that when an addon goes live, its because a better one is in development/being tested....so um...unsettling, ya?
Imagine all that just to UNFAIRLY kill people in an mmo:D People are so mean!
Only a complete tool would downplay unsportsmanlike behavior.
*golf clap*
Exactly.
Lets put asside what the addon actually does to combat, how does that not do anything but turn off players who come into pvp hoping for a competitive gaming experience only to find out that you've got a handful of players running cracked out cyborg reaction times.
As I've said before if you want to play bot v bot, set up a private server, and stop ruining it for people who genuinely show up to play and have fun.
No matter how bad you need to win the game, IMO you won't get any respect for destroying it in the process.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭3. Again and again. I never 'balanced' the game. I just can't. I provided a more clear interface about some pvp related events.
I do NOT share the view, that combat has to be obscure. The only people who could possibly 'suffer' in the result of a widespread usage of my addon are those who's playstyle relied on exploiting shortcomings of the default interface. I find these playstyles unsportmanlike and cheesy. Sorry about that. Or, as some people tend to say - 'git gud'.
4. That means that i don't find people unmanageble in pvp. Some are stronger, most are weaker, but all are winnable.
Whether or not you had that intent, it does effect that, and I have heard you say yourself you have had that intention.
Also, it does mean you find them unmanageable. Otherwise, why would you need an addon.
You yourself said earlier: when you run without it, you die more.
In fact, your whole argument as to why it exists was prefaced on that.
In fact, if you carry those statistics around with you and look at them closely enough, it actually proves that it provides you with an advantage you otherwise wouldn't have, if your skill level without it is a control test, and your results improve with it, because logically your skill level would remain relatively constant within a short period of time.Edited by Cathexis on April 14, 2017 4:01AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭I'm very proud to announce that Miat's Pvp Alerts just received a major update.
Now
with
3D icons!
And other features!
Update description:
All pvp objectives (resources, keeeps, towns, ic districts) as well as various locations on the map (Ayleid wells, delves, camps, crossswords) now have 3d icons in the gameworld on top of them.
Added icons for Alessia Bridge and Chalman and Ash Gates. The icons have the color of the faction that currently has Alessia, Chalman or Ash keeps respectively.
The icon shows faction owning the objective, its under attack status, number of sieges status and its capture status.
You can mouseover the icons to see the name of the objective, your distance from it and exact number of sieges near it.
Map pings (player waypoint, rally point, players' pings) will also have 3d icons in the gameworld at their location.
As a side feature, if you're in a group and place player waypoint on the map the addon automatically places your ping at the same position (the ping will disappear in a few seconds).
While at your faction gates you will see a special icons. If you mouseover it a frame with current campaign information (campaign name, current score, emperor status and your position in the campaign) will appear.
All 3d icons can be seen through by the terrain, just like ZOS quest\group markers.
Grab it HERE
This is wretch inducing...
This is seriously allowed in this game!?
Point blank, this add on gives the player info that he/she shouldnt have and ordinarily would not have...
Shame on every single person using this cheating add on...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on April 14, 2017 4:09AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Olen_Mikko wrote: »You know you suck like f..k if you have to use this kind of add-ons to be able to compete.
L2P
100% agree...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭@Dorrino
I think you are making the assumption that I think you are hacking or doing something that isn't explicitly currently available in the game system. I'm not, that's not what I'm arguing. The argument I'm making is this
This is a widespread assumption, but i haven't thought you shared it.[*] You have tapped into ambiguous areas of the game that are not readily available to the ui, that specifically give you a tactical advantage by reducing the complexity of particular combat mechanics, and that compliments your play style to the disadvantage of others.
I hold a different opinion on 'specifically give you a tactical advantage' and on 'reducing the complexity of particular combat mechanics'.
I gives everybody who uses the addon the said advantage. This advantage can't be limited to me, by any means.
Reduction of complexity is a subjective judgement. With the addon you notice MORE things happening around you, thus you have more food for thought, more information to work with, more data to use for personal improvement. In my book that means increasing the complexity, just by straightforward use of the definition of 'complexity'.
If you die from something you wasn't aware of the only basis for improvement is 'maybe i should do something else next time'. If you die because you failed to react to a clear message on your screen in a proper way - you can make a strategy of the next approach. A rational strategy.[*] Doing that is reductionist and it is simplifying an elegant and interesting component of the game to a "push X now to counter" style of combat that drastically reduces not only the skill involved in fighting, and by relation the overall quality of the game.
I do not find 'you have died from an attack from behind' an ' elegant and interesting component of the game'. I find it annoying. Sorry about that.
'drastically reduces not only the skill involved in fighting, and by relation the overall quality of the game' - on the contrary, now when the player is AWARE what's going on he has both grounds for the improvement and reduced frustration from the unknown danger. In my book the quality of the game for him can only improve from that.Fine, sure, lets say it doesn't, it still picks up players and records them through some form of interaction. No doubt you have reserved the most effective method for your own version of the addon. The list isn't really something I have a problem with as much, other than it adding you if you haven't even observed the player. Generally, if you have interacted directly with the player and it keeps them in a list on your screen, I don't think that's such a big issue - you can basically identify the same thing by recognizing commonly found opposing groups of players with your brain. I mean, its still kind of cheese, but its not something outside of human capacity, and it doesn't generally affect gameplay at that level.
Awesome:)Dude, I run on THE LOWEST SPEC MACHINE YOU CAN RUN and play effectively, and you can run with a maximum visual field
at 50+ frames (or at least the minimum 70 which is required). You can choose to play on lower settings if you wish, if your game settings do not allow you to see correctly in front of you. Just because what is behind you may vary based on certain variables, doesn't inherently mean that every player doesn't have a blind spot behind them. The field of view does not encompass a 360' exact overlay of the rendered area around your character. Certainly I would say that at minimum you could say there is definitely a blind spot at exactly 180' behind you at all times, irrespective of the variability of field of view from player to player. There are no standard game settings you can adjust which will completely diminish your blind spot, nor that will circumvent being attacked by players in stealth (for this example we will say at range). That is what your addon is doing.
As i said multiple times the addon transforms auditory cues to visual cues. I do not agree that vagueness of auditory cues is a necessary component of competitive pvp environment in an open world game like this.
So the point you're arguing 'player can now be aware of something he couln't have been aware before' is false. The point is 'the player has better awareness of something he had worse awareness before'. And the only way to defend the later is somehow to justify WHY it's necessary to have worse awareness instead of a better one?
Currently you're arguing that learning to anticipate attacks you don't see at all is a staple of pvp experience. And i still don't see why?
Only because you, as a person, enjoy to use your intuition in the game? With my addon you still have a huge field of its applications. Does the addon reduces that field? Yes it does. Does the addon reduces the complexity? No it's doesn't. It transforms intuitive component of the gameplay into rational one.
I'm that type of a person that enjoy solving rational problems. You might like to solve intuitive ones. But you can disable anything you don't like in the addon and keep solving your type of problems. How does the addon takes away YOUR enjoyment when you don't use it?You can observe things outside your focus it is called anticipating possible outcomes and adjusting your play style to accommodate. It is a skill that you have to develop when you play this game under normal conditions.
You cannot NOT to anticipate things around you. That's how people work. For it feels like a totally subjective reason you want to anticipate the very specific things the addon tries to take OUT of the anticipation area (with varying success). And if so, as i said above don't use it. You will still have the game full with the type of anticipation YOU enjoy.Useless, because in the current meta you can build for infinite roll dodge and as long as your reaction time is faster than the window of the beginning of the channel to the end of the attack, you can dodge it.
This is false. I've heard rumors that it's possible to reduce dodge costs to negligible values, but haven't seen a single person actually playing a build like this. Frankly i'd love to see the guy:)
In this light the whole argument about dodge rolling is false or requires a proof (not a proof of concept, but a proof that this is happening on a noticeable level).It became the defining property of them because they were developed that way. That's how they work, it's what makes them use-able. Once you can effectively permanently counter them, it renders using them pointless. You are thinking it's like "oh sometimes dodge-able attacks hit me, and that's not fair." But the reason they are hitting you is because you are doing tactically erroneous things with regard to exposing yourself to range attacks, I'm not saying that like "oh L2P" I'm saying that like you misinterpreted a situation and died and that's a normal consequence of the game. Where the real problems are is when a player can run a tactic that is effectively un-counterable, and that's what warnings do to range builds.
I strongly disagree with the whole thing. I'm sorry. I don't even know how to counter this. No i don't see that they have been designed that way. No i don't see a drawback of ranged attack because they are ranged, i see only benefits in them. I don't see a difference between dodging/blocking a ranged attack and dodging/blocking a melee attack. Unless we're talking about max distance attacks travel time is so fast then the reaction profile is quite the same as with melee attacks. This is my experience though. Your might differ.
And no, i don't think "oh sometimes dodge-able attacks hit me, and that's not fair.". I think 'i failed to react to it, i need to improve there'.The problem I am trying to make you understand is that the quality of the dynamics of combat are deminished when you no longer have to face some aspect of the game that would normally require you to make a potentially erroneous decision.
I DO understand what you're saying. I disagree with it. I justified it above.It then becomes toxic for the game when it provides an advantage for select players either because they are running a specific application, and even further if it runs in compliment to a play style which is typically disadvantaged by range builds.
This is not correct. The 'select players' argument doesn't work since the addon is available to everybody for free. Thus there's no reason for toxicity since anybody who wants the benefits - gets the addon. No strings attached.As I have explained, you can do this, it is possible without the help of an addon. It just isn't 100% infallible and reliable. It is called using your judgement, and it is the discerning difference between an experienced player and an inexperienced one.
This is correct in some cases and totally incorrect in others. If you could've anticipate any attack from stealth i'd agree with you.And as I've said, you can interpret when you are being attacked from behind. I do it regularly, I can tell you there are zergs or individual groups of players that regularly come at me from behind and I am mindful of that and anticipate when it is coming when I am on top of my game. I don't always avoid it, but I am quite skilled at it because it is something I practice, and have for quite a long time.
I do it regularly as well. The difference between us is i still enjoy those attacks to have clear cues and you don't.Then turn up your volume, adjust your brightness, adjust your settings, learn to recognize warning signs and think about combat while it is happening.
Done all that. Still enjoy notifications more. What is my next step?:)That's the point I'm trying to make, translating combat mechanics into 2 dimensional ui variables simplifies combat and takes away from the complex things in the game that make them require skill and offer a unique sense of play.
I disagree the apples and oranges part. I see only apples here. So again how come that ' translating combat mechanics into 2 dimensional ui ' is not applied first to the hp numbers and bars?Yes their blockability is the same, you are right. Just because they can both be blocked doesn't make them equal. Are a light attack and a meteor equal because they can both be blocked? No.
If terms of the result of blocking they are the same. And the point was in that, wasn't it?Edited by Dorrino on April 14, 2017 5:15AM0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭As I've said before you can anticipate possible outcomes and adjust your play style to accommodate.
That is where the problem comes in with your addon. If you addon blocks me from being able to accomodate for your play style, fighting you isn't really fighting you. It's just a one sided fallacy, because there is no opportunity for counterplay.
Ok, so you agree that observing opponents actions fail to work as a principle, and you try to promote to apply intuition there as well.
That's fine if YOU like it this way, but what if some other people like it differently?Yes they do, among other things. And the way they are applied dramatically affects their effectiveness.
Which is why making them 100% reliable hard counters defeats the whole purpose of range attacks.
As i said i strongly disagree that knowing about a ranged attacks equal countering that attack as outlined above.Now you are just attacking with semantics.
Those are subjective role categories of play styles that players tend to gravitate toward, so yeah they have merit.
Who is playing them by majority is inconsequential to the argument.
No i don't. I really did not understand who are those ranged builds who suffer from my addon.If it is mostly mag sorcs, then your addon is effectively just there to protect players from people who play mag sorcs or ganks.
Except, that's a component of the game.
Yes it is a component of the game that my addon made a bit more difficult. So proponents of those playstyles will now need to get a bit more skill to keep their playstyle effective. Isn't it that higher complexity and higher challenge that you try to defend?:)That depends on what you are trying to do with it. Certainly, it isn't the weakest thing. My level 8 nightblade was able to push out as much burst dps as my lvl 50 max pvp champion stam sorc. So that's just blatantly not true at all.
I'm comparing it to any other class if the player has equal experience. Yes you can effectively 1vx people if much lesser skill level, but other classes do it with greater ease and with much wide room for error.You aren't reacting to the attack at a human level using an addon that notifies you of projectiles, you are reacting to the thing that flashes on your screen in front of you, that is ALWAYS in your field of view, ALWAYS in a predictable location, and does not require you to use any kind of foresight or observe elements of the 3 dimension plane of combat from where the attack originates.
But this is exactly the point of the notifications. To make it easier to notice those attacks:)
Again the only difference is i enjoy it being easier and you don't.
And yet again (3rd time) i don't see why opting-out of using the addon doesn't work for you.
Lets put asside what the addon actually does to combat, how does that not do anything but turn off players who come into pvp hoping for a competitive gaming experience only to find out that you've got a handful of players running cracked out cyborg reaction times.
As I've said before if you want to play bot v bot, set up a private server, and stop ruining it for people who genuinely show up to play and have fun.
No matter how bad you need to win the game, IMO you won't get any respect for destroying it in the process.
That works in the exactly opposite way:) The new players coming into pvp suddenly realize they can get an addon that helps them make sense of the said pvp. And instead of leaving immediately they have a chance to get into it.
Cyrodiil is quite complex for a new player, you know:)
And once again you somehow attribute ME the desire to 'win the game' no matter what. I want everybody to 'win the game'. The game is way too easy for me for quite a long time already. There's literally no point for me to seek personal advantages in it.
ps. Got rank 50 today:)Whether or not you had that intent, it does effect that, and I have heard you say yourself you have had that intention.
Also, it does mean you find them unmanageable. Otherwise, why would you need an addon.
You yourself said earlier: when you run without it, you die more.
In fact, your whole argument as to why it exists was prefaced on that.
In fact, if you carry those statistics around with you and look at them closely enough, it actually proves that it provides you with an advantage you otherwise wouldn't have, if your skill level without it is a control test, and your results improve with it, because logically your skill level would remain relatively constant within a short period of time.
And for the 4th time:) I do NOT need it. I ENJOY it. I like to have it. And i like the others to have it as well since i project my enjoyment onto their enjoyment:)Edited by Dorrino on April 14, 2017 5:17AM0