Perhaps it's not consistent in terms of having extreme percentages applied towards the criteria.

So for example....ZOS based it off too many parameters therefore knowing some or all traits and motif mixed and maxed produce very little variance

It honestly would've been better if it worked as follows:

-Master writ occur
-Master writ vouchers

Criteria base:

1. Each known trait applies 7.15% of getting a master writ for a max of 100% for clothing.
2. Each know trait applies 14.2% of getting a master writ for a max of 100% for BS
3. Each know trait applies 16.6% of getting a master writ for a max of 100% for wood work
4. Similar for provisioning, enchanting and alchemy but based on learned recipes for provisioning and learned traits or runes for enchant and alchemy.

5. The increased voucher value would come from bs, ww and cloth based on the base blue motif and the original purple motif but instead of 100% it would go up to 100 being the max voucher and additional would raise it per page up to 1 voucher for a max of X
6. Vouchers for provisioning, enchant and alchemy would following something else. Provisioning is simple. Follow know recipes but not sure for alchemy and enchanting


That's how I feel it should work because crafting offers passives for 100% success so master writ should follow this as well

Thoughts??

Tasear wrote: »

Achievements count too. So if don't quest you will hurt too.

No, they said crafting achievements. Source:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3811984/#Comment_3811984

Also said not broken, except provisioning.

My only issue is reward for effort, unless you count actually getting a master writ as a reward in itself for the time you have put into your crafting skills.

I have sold 3 MW's for 5, 6 and 7 vouchers when they required motifs I don't know (Malacath, Yukodan and another) simply because the return is not worth the investment in getting the motifs. I was able to do an Imperial style MW and a couple of alliance styles for 5 and 6 voucher returns.

I had a provisioning last night worth 10 vouchers that used 2 perfect roe. I traveled to IC for an armour master MW that only returned 6 vouchers and I have used kutas for 3 and 4 voucher writs.

If you had to go and buy anything to complete MW's, the return has to be better. While I am happy that I am getting them, they can be an inconvenience to complete and deliver for the small rewards they offer..

It is becoming apparent from statics gathered that unless your crafter has learnt all traits and knows the majority of the motifs you will not get many master writs from blacksmithing, clothing or woodworking.
Your chance of receiving a master writ will drop SIGNIFICANTlY the less motifs & traits you know.

You can all forget your dreams of having an army of alts gathering piles of master writ voucher, it isn't gonna happen cheaply or quickly.
So follow this advice to save yourselves thousands of ingots and silk; use your army of alts to do Alchemy and Enchanting writs and let your main crafter(s) do the rest.


.

Three days in a row, I have gotten no MWs between one master crafting character who knows 165/406 of the "chapterized" style motifs and all nine traits, plus three crafting mule alts who, admittedly, know very few motifs. All have every crafting skill line maxed to 50. Ever since I learned each individual character's personal crafting knowledge determines the likelihood of a MW dropping after completing a max-level crafting writ, I've been training traits on those crafting mules like clockwork.

I've also been trying to track down as many motif chapters that I skipped, as possible. There are only so many hours in the day you can stand to do the same daily quests, over and over, hoping to get motif chapters that VERY rarely drop. It's a tedious grind and I consider it a GOOD day when I manage to find one or two chapters I didn't already know. Tangentially, I just reconstituted my FOURTH glass axe chapter while I'm still missing six other chapters (that's not random -- that's broken), so seriously, wth? Suffice it to say I'm doing everything I can to learn styles I missed, every single day.

What bothers me... ...it feels like the more I do, the less I get.

It's either grind the daily quests or try to find motif chapters at guild traders, which will, quite literally, probably take just as many hours and millions of gold. That's its own special flavor of torture considering there are no guarantees you'll find a chapter you don't already know at a price you can afford. Honestly, I really preferred it when I didn't NEED to know every motif. I liked that I could learn different pieces by chapter, kinda like buying a single instead of an entire album for just one good song. Before Homestead, if I only wanted a glass weapon, I could just learn THAT chapter and be done. Now, I have to track down esoteric motifs that are both hideous in appearance (IMO), extremely hard to find, and grossly over-priced JUST so I can complete the very-few MWs I've gotten for a pittance of writ vouchers.

That's the other frustrating aspect of MWs -- there is no consistency between the motif required to complete the MW and the number of vouchers rewarded. I understand SEMANTICALLY why it makes sense for a MW requiring a legendary item to be worth a lot more writ vouchers than a writ requiring an epic item, *all other things being equal*. However, all other things are not equal. Through the course of just playing the game regularly, I expect (maybe I'm wrong, and it's just me) people accrue legendary-grade crafting items (kuta, dreugh wax, tempering allow, etc.) and have little caches of them sitting in their banks. But it boggles my mind that I see MWs for sale in zone-chat that are worth +60 writ vouchers that only require a "trash" blue motif to complete (Bosmer, Dunmer, etc.). Meanwhile, I've had writs requiring RARE, difficult-to-find, insanely-overpriced motif chapters (Akiviri helmet, Order of the Hour shoulders, Daggerfall Covenant Chest, Minotaur Shield, etc.) that are worth a pathetic, measly 6 or 7 writ vouchers.

Right now, Dreugh Wax sells for about $3.5k gold, each. So maybe it'll "cost" you 8x$3.5k=$28k gold to complete a MW that requires a legendary item (but you probably already have them in your bank/crafting bag), which is probably worth at least 60 writ vouchers. For me to get the Akiviri Helmet motif chapter, I had to either earn 500,000AP in Cyrodiil (which I did) or spend upwards of $50k at a guild trader to finish a MW only worth 7 writ vouchers. So ya -- maybe it makes sense *semantically* the way rewards are dished out, but PRAGMATICALLY, the reward/effort ratio is horrifically skewed based on the MWs I've gotten and those I've seen for sale.

If MWs are being generated randomly according to fixed rules specified by the developers, that needs change. Sorry if it's a burden, but each MW should be evaluated by a human being for how many writ vouchers it's worth. Why? Simple: an Akiviri Helmet motif chapter is not remotely equivalent to an Assassin Gloves motif chapter.

Any MW that requires an "expensive" motif chapter to complete should be worth significantly more than a MW that can be completed with a common blue-quality motif. One MW that required me to grind 500,000AP was worth 7 vouchers while the best MW I've gotten to-date was worth 67 vouchers and only required a two-trait set piece, the motif chapter for Assassins gloves (~$2k gold if you don't have it), and 8 Dreugh Wax. Even if I didn't already know/have everything I needed to complete the MW worth 67 vouchers, it only would have cost me about $30k gold. Go check the very few guild traders who have Akiviri Helmet motif chapters for sale -- you'll be lucky if you find one for less than six figures.

As it is, my crafting mules each know at least two traits for everything. My main crafting character knows them all. But ever since the maintenance, it seems as though the likelihood of getting *any* writs have significantly DECLINED. Like I said, three days in a row, four characters doing max-level writs (+20 per day), no MWs. Prior to that, I recieved only one or two enchanting or alchemy writs per day, each worth only maybe 2-5 vouchers. Now, I've gone three days with NOTHING.

From my perspective (and I'm willing to believe I'm just incredibly unlucky), the more effort I invest to increase my aggregate "account-wide" crafting knowledge (training traits on alts, hunting esoteric motif chapters) the less I get back in return.

There's no way this is working as intended. It's certainly not working as advertised. Did I mention that the MW worth 67 vouchers was in a max-level writ reward box that I got with my crafting alt with the LEAST knowledge? At the time, he knew precisely zero traits and only six or seven common blue-quality motifs, but HE got the MW worth 67 vouchers?

Devil's advocate...

Let's just pretend as if we know the odds of a sealed MW dropping from a max-level crafting writ is a paltry 3%, all things being equal. That means there's a 97% chance you'll get nothing but trash when you open the max-level writ reward box. The odds of flipping a fair coin seven times in a row and getting heads every single time is .5^7, or 7.8% -- not very high. Similarly, if we assume a 97% chance of getting nothing, opening 20 writ reward boxes per day for three days, the odds of me getting nothing across 60 writs is .97^60, or a 16.08% chance (again, not very high). There's an old song lyric, "If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all."

This is not a sarcastic question: does anyone at ZOS have, bare-minimum, an undergraduate degree in statistics? Your requirements and QA folks should have a working knowledge of basic stats and probability. If they don't, quality assurance and requirement verification is not getting done properly, which only hinders the rest of the development process -- everyone else has to work harder to track down and fix problems QA should be identifying, regularly.

But back on topic. Supposedly, gaining knowledge in a given crafting skill line, researching traits, and learning style motifs mitigates the odds of getting not getting a sealed MW when opening the reward box from a max-level crafting writ. But WOW, it really doesn't feel like that's the case. The more I learn, the fewer MWs are dropping. And like I said before, there's no consistency between the amount of effort I put into to complete a MW worth 7 vouchers relative to a MW worth 67.

This simply CANNOT be working as intended. I strongly urge the developers to recheck those numbers on the back-end (you know which ones I'm talking about -- the ones that are perfectly fine and don't need to be checked) to be 100% certain the drop rates for sealed MWs are being influenced by our character's crafting knowledge POSITIVELY. Also, if you're assigning voucher rewards to MWs heuristically, that has to stop -- each one needs to be done manually, pretty please. Considering Akiviri Helmet motif chapters are harder to get than Assassin Gloves and 67 is greater than 7, MW rewards are pragmatically bass-ackwards.

I get that you don't want to reward your players too much, so you're probably tweaking your RNG on the back-end to somehow "encourage" them to keep playing regularly. But I need to stress how frequently people look at numbers and assume they mean something they don't (often assuming those numbers mean whatever personally appeals to them the most). Don't get hung-up on semantic justifications for mechanics that fly in the face of what's happening in the game, pragmatically. Honestly, someone needs to inject whoever makes these decisions for the development team with a suppository of FAIRNESS. It's more important that you make the game fair than it is that you impress yourself with how cleverly you can obfuscate calculations on the back-end. You're probably making the math a LOT harder than it needs to be, which only increases the odds of either making a mistake or losing global perspective (not seeing the forest for the trees).

No kidding, if MWs were working as advertised and rewards were (at least) steady/consistent with the effort invested, then everything would be sunshine and rainbows. Sadly, that's just not the case. Please fix it.

Wish the would say what motifs and everything that weighs more and what weighs more on the scale to getting them drop more then 3 since launch zos thank you for more rng from everyone to you yay...... You really do read what we ask for xD tbh my rng is horrible

Imo ebon which has to me the biggest factor as it cost 300 master writ vouchs or a but load of gold and theres others i want to say maybe pvp or soul shriven as they are grinds do dlc motifs wiegh more tjen not does imperial even get on the scale, but one things sure in my book wjich is ebon probs os the most important factor im not sure i dont have it though it makes sense

fallentemplar wrote: »

Imo ebon which has to me the biggest factor as it cost 300 master writ vouchs or a but load of gold and theres others i want to say maybe pvp or soul shriven as they are grinds do dlc motifs wiegh more tjen not does imperial even get on the scale, but one things sure in my book wjich is ebon probs os the most important factor im not sure i dont have it though it makes sense

I can tell you I learned Ebon on my main crafter and I have not gotten any MW in last 3 days. Know all traits, all motifs (except 2 chapters of silken ring), have all passives, and none in 3 days. And none over 15 writs in last week. FML

Considering I took the time to max out everything on my main - Everything. Even Journal is complete in all the areas relating to crafting - and she rarely gets master writs, versus my nightblade who knows maybe 15 motif pages and gets writs for 80 vouchers - At what point is the best time to stop learning things with my nightblade so I'm guaranteed master writs to put in the bank for my main to use? It's pretty ludicrous, tbh.

I think something's broken. My main crafter seldom gets them and when I do, they're nine trait and always rare (and expensive) motif for 5 vouchers.

What's the deal with newbies with nothing researched getting blue standard motif, two trait master writs worth 150 vouchers?

Something seems off here.

Morimizo wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

What bothers me... ...it feels like the more I do, the less I get.

Indeed, the chance for a Master Writ, regardless of crafting mastery. is abysmally low.

It has been my experience that my alts with little to no research/motif knowledge/crafting achievements receive Master Writs at the same rate as my master crafter. Only low end alchemy and enchanting ones, mind you, but they average about two a week for 4 characters that can do all 3 of the consumable writs. So, 2 out of 84, maybe none. For 2-5 vouchers.

My master crafter has all but 2 motifs learned, only a couple more research traits to go, and all but the furnishing recipe total achievements completed. If this character gets one Master Writ a week, it's a lot, and usually it's an enchanting one for 2 vouchers, with the record being 12 (enchanting again). So, 1 out of 42, maybe none. For usually 2-5 vouchers.

If it were not for other players selling what they don't want to make, or alts, it would take 150 weeks to just get the Ebony Motif. Working as intended? Honestly?!

I don't believe the system is working as is stipulated; master crafters, who can actually make the more complex writs and would be the ones actually sought out by specialty clients (if we're going to be immersive here), are not receiving these at any higher a clip than anyone else with lower crafting mastery (again, this has been my experience over the past 6+ weeks).

Also, I don't think the system correctly recognizes the value of a writ based on the time/ effort required to make an item; for example, I received a Blacksmithing Master Writ for Way of the Arena, Soul-Shriven, Nirnhoned, Rubedite Belt, Epic, worth 5! vouchers. Lolwut? Is there no provision for the length of time to acquire Soul-Shriven (completing Cadwell's Silver), researching 8 traits (not to mention researching the nirnhoned, where even if you buy it from another player, costs a bit), not to mention the cost of the materials in relation to:

The Clothing Master Writ I saw posted in chat from another player; Ashen Grip (2 traits?), Khajiit, Infused, Rubedo Leather Helm, Legendary, that was worth 84 vouchers?! I get that the legendary tempers are more expensive, but we're talking about one more skill point and the difference in gold for the tempers can be made up much quicker than researching 8 traits (4+months) and completing two alliance quest lines and the main quest. There needs to be a better understanding of item value in the program's assessment. It cannot only be governed by, Is it Epic? Is it Legendary?

Also, the last patch notes said they increased the chance for a Provisioning Master Writ. Perhaps from .001% to .002%? I received two Provisioning 2-voucher Master Writs the first week (not with my main crafter), and none for any of my characters since. You can even look in the guild traders and notice there are way fewer of those than any of the others.

I'm very much having the same experience as you. My master crafter rarely gets a master writ and when she does, it is typically only the enchanting and alchemy ones.

The provisioning master writs are extremely rare, and she knows EVERY recipe in the game including the yellow ones, so what's up with that?? I should be getting a few of those a week.

Another thing I agree on is the voucher rewards for a few of these are a bit low. I think anything legendary should give a min 125 vouchers and if it is epic but Nirnhoned, you should at least get 80. I don't feel like any of the blacksmithing, clothier or woodworking ones should be under 40 vouchers.

I know that they want people to be doing these for a long time, but come on... I'm sure you will find more things over time to add to the voucher vendor for people to buy.

Luckily there's nothing I want since it would take ten lifetimes to get 125 master writs.

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Luckily there's nothing I want since it would take ten lifetimes to get 125 master writs.

I know how you feel. I actually managed to get enough writs to buy all the basic crafting stations but without any kind of storage in homes that hasn't actually been useful at all. My characters are all still parked in a town.

Totes-Bode wrote: »

My crafter who knows all schematics now receives a single lackluster 7 voucher master writ every couple of days. On the first day of the Cake Event, my alts learned a few things and got 3 master writs for 60-80 vouchers each. However days later, after learning a multitude of purple motif pages each, my alts and my main receive no master writs. I wish I had never given motif pages to these alts to learn.

I gotta say, it seems, if you actually know more than a certain degree, the less you get.

Maybe that's just the impression I get, but it seems too many masters are getting too little.