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Huge World - Total Boredom
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Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Khaos_Bane wrote: »
Overall this game is in a MUCH better state than it was. However, I have to agree with the OP, the overworld is far too easy that it really does make it boring. They nerfed it for the lowest common denominator.
Who else would you design the most basic level of content in an MMO for/around? Especially if you want lots of people to play your game (and, you know, make money). Balancing around the high-end seems like a great way to have a small population.3 -
Woopy✭✭✭It is an MMO and it is staying true to Elder Scrolls roots. Difficult is not based on anything except for dmg or health buff multipliers. The only things that contain difficulty in terms of mechanics is dungeons and raids... Most of us have come to accept it seeing as it is...well...and elder scrolls game.Heart of Ayanad [StamSorc]
Soul of Ayanad [MagKnight]
Aegis of Ayanad [MagPlar]
Keeper of Ayanad [MagBlade]
Shadow of Ayanad [MagSorc]1 -
GwJSVDShark✭✭✭They changed it when One Tamriel (1T) came out. Until then, every area was progressively harder, but progressively emptier.
When you got to Caldwell Gold, the whole mundus in the 3rd area was empty, I went and did the Dominion solo and saw one human per month on average. Since 1T, all areas are open from the get go, so you can explore all areas as you wish, and now there are players everywhere.
However, now the world bosses (WB) are super hard for every one except CP600 mages, and you need a mob to take them down, best I did was take a WB in Wrothgard with 2 others and we got a beating. So if you want a challenge, try the world bosses. They also drop the best loot.
Dungeons are normally scaled to you so a level 4 or CP600 face the bosses at their level, 4 or CP600 so it seems easy, but group dungeons scaled to Vet level are super hard. So try that for fun.
Then there's Cyro, that's PVP and it can be a cake walk if you find some one lower than you, or a battle if you run into some high skilled guy.
Imperial City has both a story and is challenging, it can be super hard, specially since you fight high level bot and pvp at same time.
So just saying, if the mundus bores you, try these.1 -
GwJSVDShark✭✭✭That being said, my friends are totally new, while I already played a DK to 50, when the game came out. So I thought, I just drag em along for a ride and we have a fun time questing around.
Here's an idea,
Try logging onto the EU server and make yourself new character. Because the servers are separate, you will not have any of your gear, any of your CP or skills, brand new baby character level 4. Then you and your guys try questing together. It's a good challenge as you know how to play but have none of the tools and thus have to find a way to survive. Kept trying to reach for my meteor ultimate, but of course was not there, not was my destruction staff ultimate, no skills for good potions and so i kept getting my ass kicked until i found ways to win with level 8 armor and weapons that i came across.
Also the EU server is alone and deserted when it's 9 pm EST, there's like no one there, so you end up soloing dolmens, WB, caves and mobs, no high level saviours to rescue you. I did this and it was a very good experience, reminded me how far mky main has come from my first awkwards days in ESO.
Or,
stop giving them high end gear and carrying them. Let them find low level armor and low level daggers and let them try and survive on their own. If you keep crafting them good armor good gear and healing them, of course they will think it's a joke and they learn nothing as well, every time they are about to croak, you rescue them, easy pieacy.
your friends, your choice.4 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »
You seen it with Craglorn too. No one who done it when it was all new and shiny would help newcomers. They just preferred to stand in the likes of Mournhold spamming their AoE's. There was nothing in it for them so instead just ignored all the requests over chat for help in Craglorn. No one answered, so no real amount of people ventured outwith the town hub. When the difficulty was removed from the area, they came on here complaining that it was now too easy and they had to do it the hard way. Nah, not the hard way, just had more people around at the time because it was newer content so didn't need to stand there begging for days on end to find a group.
Um. Actually biggest reason "no one who done it would help newcomers" was that for the longest time there was quest phasing(instancing? Not sure of the right word) - it was literally imposible for someone who actually finished the quest to help anyone get theirs done too. You could only do it together with someone who was on the very same step of the quest as you. After they ditched that absurd requirement(which took them long enough) people'd usually come and help - I've helped more than a few people when I saw them ask in zonechat and on my newer toons I've asked for help in zonechat and had strangers come over and help.
The bigger issue was total lack of incentive, the rewards and xp you'd get there were absoloutely meaningless. There was literally 0 reason to do Craglorn quests aside from the very first time, and even then it'd be just for the story(and at first that nirnhoned piece in the end of Upper Crag). I mean, it's nice to help people but most of us don't play this game just to help other people get their quests done, we'd like to do some of our own too. You'd have better time-reward ratio helping newbies kill level 12 bosses in their first zone, at least that didn't take long.
Imo Craglorn is a perfect example of a really cool idea executed really poorly. It never needed a nerf, it needed less forced grouping(like, having to group to kill a boss is one thing but needing a group in order for them to step on pads/interact with a few puzzle pieces? Wth?) and better incentive and it would've been swarming with activity. Would be cool if we still had at least that one zone where open world actually rekt you if you didn't look where you're going. Ah good old times of getting killed by wasps and having to watch out for archers taking aim...1 -
Bananko✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Balancing around the high-end seems like a great way to have a small population.
It certainly set WildStar back.
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Mush55✭✭✭✭It is an MMO and it is staying true to Elder Scrolls roots. Difficult is not based on anything except for dmg or health buff multipliers. The only things that contain difficulty in terms of mechanics is dungeons and raids... Most of us have come to accept it seeing as it is...well...and elder scrolls game.
Name a difficult dungeon they have even nerfed these into the ground................0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is an MMO and it is staying true to Elder Scrolls roots. Difficult is not based on anything except for dmg or health buff multipliers. The only things that contain difficulty in terms of mechanics is dungeons and raids... Most of us have come to accept it seeing as it is...well...and elder scrolls game.
Name a difficult dungeon they have even nerfed these into the ground................
Well to be fair COS and ROM are pretty good there. Vet obviously.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you don' like overland content, just join PvPSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Mush55✭✭✭✭It is an MMO and it is staying true to Elder Scrolls roots. Difficult is not based on anything except for dmg or health buff multipliers. The only things that contain difficulty in terms of mechanics is dungeons and raids... Most of us have come to accept it seeing as it is...well...and elder scrolls game.
Name a difficult dungeon they have even nerfed these into the ground................
Well to be fair COS and ROM are pretty good there. Vet obviously.
Not really hard if you can pug your way through them and I am far from the best player you can still mainly dps your way through these with little regard to the mechanics.
As for trials all they did was buff trash health and resistances a cheap way to make hard content0 -
KingKush✭✭✭✭There's PLENTY to do in this game. The reason it seems the opposite is the lack of any real tutorial and the lack of any real direction. This game is not new player friendly at all. 99% of the information I learned was searched by myself online or watching youtube videos.Xbox NA
GT: Live Like Kure
King Kush-MagSorc0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is an MMO and it is staying true to Elder Scrolls roots. Difficult is not based on anything except for dmg or health buff multipliers. The only things that contain difficulty in terms of mechanics is dungeons and raids... Most of us have come to accept it seeing as it is...well...and elder scrolls game.
Name a difficult dungeon they have even nerfed these into the ground................
Well to be fair COS and ROM are pretty good there. Vet obviously.
Not really hard if you can pug your way through them and I am far from the best player you can still mainly dps your way through these with little regard to the mechanics.
As for trials all they did was buff trash health and resistances a cheap way to make hard content
I can't pug my way through them lol. They're pretty mechanic heavy, especially on hm, and can be challenging even for good teams.
We need more content like this imo.
Idk about Trials because I don't run them but moar challenging 4 man would be nice.0 -
Dreepa✭✭✭GwJSVDShark wrote: »That being said, my friends are totally new, while I already played a DK to 50, when the game came out. So I thought, I just drag em along for a ride and we have a fun time questing around.
Here's an idea,
Try logging onto the EU server and make yourself new character. Because the servers are separate, you will not have any of your gear, any of your CP or skills, brand new baby character level 4. Then you and your guys try questing together. It's a good challenge as you know how to play but have none of the tools and thus have to find a way to survive. Kept trying to reach for my meteor ultimate, but of course was not there, not was my destruction staff ultimate, no skills for good potions and so i kept getting my ass kicked until i found ways to win with level 8 armor and weapons that i came across.
Also the EU server is alone and deserted when it's 9 pm EST, there's like no one there, so you end up soloing dolmens, WB, caves and mobs, no high level saviours to rescue you. I did this and it was a very good experience, reminded me how far mky main has come from my first awkwards days in ESO.
Or,
stop giving them high end gear and carrying them. Let them find low level armor and low level daggers and let them try and survive on their own. If you keep crafting them good armor good gear and healing them, of course they will think it's a joke and they learn nothing as well, every time they are about to croak, you rescue them, easy pieacy.
your friends, your choice.
Oh, sorry, my fault... I played a DK to 50, but I started a new altmer mage with them together. No carrying done.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »GreenhaloX wrote: »Total boredom.. what the?! Yes, it was getting a bit monotonous doing the same dailies and other repeatable contents leveling up to max CP and beyond for one toon, and it was seemingly getting a bit boring. However, after creating three other toons of each class, I am enjoying the skillsets of each toon class. Plus, it has been over a year since I've done any regular line quests, and it is actually interesting to redo the quests with a new toon. I had actually forget a lot of what the quests entail, and it is kind of like experiencing new again with the new toon. Also, new contents (festivals, dlc and such) are being added every so often. So, how the hell are you saying total boredom? Something's wrong with you, dude. Ha ha
The boredom was not about the world and the story/quests. They are done very well. The boredom part was about the lackluster of depth in game-play / combat duration / anti-climax feeling.
That's because you guys are doing solo content as a group.
Yeah, it seems like it. It is kinda weird to have an MMO being advertised with exploration and multiplayer, just to find out that the game's systems actually don't handle playing with your friends that well.
I mean, one of the major points for 1T was to bring people together and to have character from different progressions states be able to play together. Yet, when you do exactly that, the game does not really handle it well. Sure, it has group content somwhere, but that is not the promise of the game. The promise is: Get your friends and explore Tamriel.
That being said, even if you are actually doing the solo content solo, you have random players interfering with your solo content in a way that the effect is the same: Areas cleared of mobs before you know whats going on, free walk to the dungeon boss, and a boss fight that feels like beating a trash mob (due to the other players basically making you a "pug" group).
As I have said before, there is actual group content for you and your group:
1) Craglorn: the entire zone is designed for group questing.
2) World bosses in all zones.
3) Group dungeons.
4) DSA and Trials
As "play however you want", it is stupid if you forbid players from questing together. With that said, as this is an Elder Scrolls game, solo questing is very important as this is what 99,99% of players do. There's no way to balance the mobs out for both solo players and groups, it is just impossible, so you will have to take the trade-off if you want to do solo content as a group. If you want challenge, wear level 1 gear and do it. Please tell me where the game promise that open world questing is balanced for group play all across Tamriel? I haven't seen anything like that.
The game handles playing with your friend very well. Craglorn, an entire zone. World bosses. Group dungeons, DSA and Trials. Cyrodiil, a massive zone with PvP. Imperial City. There are many ways for you and your friends to enjoy the game together. If you refuse to do them, oh well, maybe the game is not for you.
I don't see any problem with random people in the quest areas, and as you can see in my signature, I care deeply for immersion. It makes the world more lively, there's another hero trying to do something good, well that's good news.
Yes, as you have said before there is group content, which I repeatedly took into account in my considerations and arguments made. :-)
I have explained the issue of first contact with the game and the retrospective decision making requirement of knowing the game before being able to structure one's one game experience. You talk from the perspective of a knowledgeable ESO player, not a newcomer that is in the orientation phase of the game.
And still, I have also explained that soloing is also suffering from group "pug" stomping. The experience is not designed well overall.
If you want to be toxic, fine. But stop putting things into my mouth. I didn't refuse anything. I am talking about the early game flow when playing with friends and solo, and the issues that arose while doing so.
On the topic of impossibility: I think there is always a solution to a design issue if you step of the beaten path. Dynamic game systems are a challenging topic, but innovation comes from smart brains that tackle things no one dared to tackle before.
Else we would still be fighting like in Everquest 1
@Dreepa
How am I toxic? Please tell me where I insulted you, or offended you in anyway? I am lost. Now i am offended by your false accusation.
If you are absolutely new to the game, there's no way you can storm through the content. There are so many things for new players to learn and figure out by themselves, they don't know how to fight, don't know what gear to use, don't know how to block, dodge roll effectively, don't know how to put points in in passives. No way those absolutely new players can burn through the content like a piece of cake just by themselves, even when they group up.
As I have said before, I have done vMA, not saying i am one of the best or anything (i am not), but i have done the hardest content that many has failed to complete so it means i am not a bad player. When i lvl up an alt, sometimes i die in the open world (while wearing full blue training gear with purple training weapons) when i make a mistake. Yes, I know all the combat mechanics, all kind of combos, all the animation cancelling techniques, how to block, how to dodge roll etc, and sometimes I still die in the open world. Granted my gear might be 6-8 levels outdated, but that cannot be so much worse that white dropped gear that new players use. I don't think it is possible to burn through open world content easily with just light and heavy attacks (it is possible, but no way a piece of cake).
Apparently you are not new to the game, as you have admitted, you have played through it, you know all the mechanics, so that's why it's easy for you and a group of players to do open world content. Not so much for new players. You should put yourself into the perspective of a new player. Ironic, huh? The most important point, as you are not new to the game, you know about Craglorn, you know about group activities, and yet you choose to carry your friends through solo content. I don't think it's ZOS's fault in this case.
Again, about seeing random players while you are questing, I don't see any problem with that, and as you can see in my signature, I care deeply for immersion. You are trying to take down this boss, and some other hero jumps in to help you. It makes the world more lively, there's another hero trying to do something good, well that's good news.
On the topic of impossibility: I want a pig that can fly. Not sure how we can achieve this though.Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 6, 2017 1:18AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭They do need to have a zone or two with an increased difficulty for solo players, specifically new ones. Something slightly easier than vet dungeons. I have said this a few times, but with no teaching tools for dungeons or classes, going from normal mode to veteran mode dungeons is a huge step for most. Health pools are way higher, mobs hit harder, bosses have harder mechanics. I would love to see a few new zones that cater to casuals trying to better themselves, and veterans looking for harder world content. Mobs that hit harder, have more health, have different mechanics, maybe even ones with shorter red zone times, making people learn to avoid them faster.0 -
Dreepa✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »GreenhaloX wrote: »Total boredom.. what the?! Yes, it was getting a bit monotonous doing the same dailies and other repeatable contents leveling up to max CP and beyond for one toon, and it was seemingly getting a bit boring. However, after creating three other toons of each class, I am enjoying the skillsets of each toon class. Plus, it has been over a year since I've done any regular line quests, and it is actually interesting to redo the quests with a new toon. I had actually forget a lot of what the quests entail, and it is kind of like experiencing new again with the new toon. Also, new contents (festivals, dlc and such) are being added every so often. So, how the hell are you saying total boredom? Something's wrong with you, dude. Ha ha
The boredom was not about the world and the story/quests. They are done very well. The boredom part was about the lackluster of depth in game-play / combat duration / anti-climax feeling.
That's because you guys are doing solo content as a group.
Yeah, it seems like it. It is kinda weird to have an MMO being advertised with exploration and multiplayer, just to find out that the game's systems actually don't handle playing with your friends that well.
I mean, one of the major points for 1T was to bring people together and to have character from different progressions states be able to play together. Yet, when you do exactly that, the game does not really handle it well. Sure, it has group content somwhere, but that is not the promise of the game. The promise is: Get your friends and explore Tamriel.
That being said, even if you are actually doing the solo content solo, you have random players interfering with your solo content in a way that the effect is the same: Areas cleared of mobs before you know whats going on, free walk to the dungeon boss, and a boss fight that feels like beating a trash mob (due to the other players basically making you a "pug" group).
As I have said before, there is actual group content for you and your group:
1) Craglorn: the entire zone is designed for group questing.
2) World bosses in all zones.
3) Group dungeons.
4) DSA and Trials
As "play however you want", it is stupid if you forbid players from questing together. With that said, as this is an Elder Scrolls game, solo questing is very important as this is what 99,99% of players do. There's no way to balance the mobs out for both solo players and groups, it is just impossible, so you will have to take the trade-off if you want to do solo content as a group. If you want challenge, wear level 1 gear and do it. Please tell me where the game promise that open world questing is balanced for group play all across Tamriel? I haven't seen anything like that.
The game handles playing with your friend very well. Craglorn, an entire zone. World bosses. Group dungeons, DSA and Trials. Cyrodiil, a massive zone with PvP. Imperial City. There are many ways for you and your friends to enjoy the game together. If you refuse to do them, oh well, maybe the game is not for you.
I don't see any problem with random people in the quest areas, and as you can see in my signature, I care deeply for immersion. It makes the world more lively, there's another hero trying to do something good, well that's good news.
Yes, as you have said before there is group content, which I repeatedly took into account in my considerations and arguments made. :-)
I have explained the issue of first contact with the game and the retrospective decision making requirement of knowing the game before being able to structure one's one game experience. You talk from the perspective of a knowledgeable ESO player, not a newcomer that is in the orientation phase of the game.
And still, I have also explained that soloing is also suffering from group "pug" stomping. The experience is not designed well overall.
If you want to be toxic, fine. But stop putting things into my mouth. I didn't refuse anything. I am talking about the early game flow when playing with friends and solo, and the issues that arose while doing so.
On the topic of impossibility: I think there is always a solution to a design issue if you step of the beaten path. Dynamic game systems are a challenging topic, but innovation comes from smart brains that tackle things no one dared to tackle before.
Else we would still be fighting like in Everquest 1
@Dreepa
How am I toxic? Please tell me where I insulted you, or offended you in anyway? I am lost. Now i am offended by your false accusation.
If you are absolutely new to the game, there's no way you can storm through the content. There are so many things for new players to learn and figure out by themselves, they don't know how to fight, don't know what gear to use, don't know how to block, dodge roll effectively, don't know how to put points in in passives. No way those absolutely new players can burn through the content like a piece of cake just by themselves, even when they group up.
As I have said before, I have done vMA, not saying i am one of the best or anything (i am not), but i have done the hardest content that many has failed to complete so it means i am not a bad player. When i lvl up an alt, sometimes i die in the open world (while wearing full blue training gear with purple training weapons) when i make a mistake. Yes, I know all the combat mechanics, all kind of combos, all the animation cancelling techniques, how to block, how to dodge roll etc, and sometimes I still die in the open world. Granted my gear might be 6-8 levels outdated, but that cannot be so much worse that white dropped gear that new players use. I don't think it is possible to burn through open world content easily with just light and heavy attacks (it is possible, but no way a piece of cake).
Apparently you are not new to the game, as you have admitted, you have played through it, you know all the mechanics, so that's why it's easy for you and a group of players to do open world content. Not so much for new players. You should put yourself into the perspective of a new player. Ironic, huh? The most important point, as you are not new to the game, you know about Craglorn, you know about group activities, and yet you choose to carry your friends through solo content. I don't think it's ZOS's fault in this case.
Again, about seeing random players while you are questing, I don't see any problem with that, and as you can see in my signature, I care deeply for immersion. You are trying to take down this boss, and some other hero jumps in to help you. It makes the world more lively, there's another hero trying to do something good, well that's good news.
On the topic of impossibility: I want a pig that can fly. Not sure how we can achieve this though.
@hmsdragonfly
Okay, toxic was the wrong word. Sorry. I meant: You neglect my opinion as a valid one and say I play the game wrong. Which is a bad way to approach the concerns of someone. If there is a "right" way to play a game (a statement on which I disagree generally, there should not be "a wrong way" to play a game) then the game designer needs to make sure that the player immediately understands what this "right way" is, and should prevent him from player the "wrong" way. But this is getting too theoretical anyway.
From my viewpoint the experience of getting into the game when playing together with friend is not well designed, and what you say did not apply to me or my friends. They are not MMO nerds, but they are pretty standard gamers. They know how to equip an item and understand the basic concepts. Like most gamers do. People have played at least one hack and slay or other game to not be "super idiotic" in how they approach the game. And even if they were, playing as a group totally kills the power balance in a way that you do not learn the combat mechanics either. It is actually doing the opposite of what you describe: The group just rolls over the content, and never really gets into a danger situation that would require them to learn the mechanics. What was that red path on the ground the mob just made? Oh nevermind, we auto-attacke him to death.
Those abilities we got? That stun, or CC, or incrase healing? ... Oh! A fireball! Lets spam it! Hey, it works! Cool! Just continue auto attack and fireball!
People do not learn the game with this approach. Actually they even might have a harder time learning it, because once they are leveling up and getting online solo, they might get destroyed because they now are level 20 and have, up until now, just auto attacked their way to victory, when suddenly they are challenged in a way they dont know how to handle.
I respect your opinion, and I can understand where you are coming from, but I just don't agree. This can be done better. Way better.
On the topic of impossibilities: It is not impossible to have dynamic systems in a game that react to player population. Spawn rates and mob strength are parameters we have available without much hassle.
One approach could be to get info about players involved (how many + what level) in an over-world cave/crypt/dungeon, and scale enemy strength accordingly. This would need to be adapted permanently by the system, as player enter and leave the cave. Maybe even player vicinity might be a factor, but scanning for distances might be more CPU heavy on the server.
For certain quests, it might be an option to lock the boss room, when a fight has started and only after the boss is dead, or the fight ended, the door is open again. So players have a proper start and ending of the fight, and don't join mid fight.
Instancing, of course, would be the best option, but someone here already said that the tech behind ESO wouldn't be able to handle so many instances.
Edited by Dreepa on April 6, 2017 9:21AM0 -
Dreepa✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Please tell me where the game promise that open world questing is balanced for group play all across Tamriel? I haven't seen anything like that.
Oh, @hmsdragonfly, about that one: You are right, it has not been mentioned explicitly as in a big slogan on the webpage or in a trailer, but it has been the vibe of the marketing communcations ever since.
Exploring and seeing the world is part of the TES brand. Anyone who is asked what they like about the TES brand will say: Exploring the world, finding adventure. And since 1T was also being put into a good light with points like "Everyone can play together now" this is also going into that same direction.
So it is not really an explicit promise made somewhere on the ESO page, bit it is more an implicit promise coming from the brand AND the fact that this is called an "online game" or MMO, and also the general vibe that comes across when devs talk about the game in interviews and community-management statements like done for 1T.
EDIT:
Actually, there is even EXPLICIT advertising... I just found... Here:
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/onetamriel
"Welcome to One Tamriel, a world of opportunity without restriction! An unprecedented achievement for an online RPG, One Tamriel removes Alliance restrictions and will automatically level your characters to match the difficulty of the content wherever you are in the world. Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!"Edited by Dreepa on April 6, 2017 12:18PM1 -
Mush55✭✭✭✭It is an MMO and it is staying true to Elder Scrolls roots. Difficult is not based on anything except for dmg or health buff multipliers. The only things that contain difficulty in terms of mechanics is dungeons and raids... Most of us have come to accept it seeing as it is...well...and elder scrolls game.
Name a difficult dungeon they have even nerfed these into the ground................
Well to be fair COS and ROM are pretty good there. Vet obviously.
Not really hard if you can pug your way through them and I am far from the best player you can still mainly dps your way through these with little regard to the mechanics.
As for trials all they did was buff trash health and resistances a cheap way to make hard content
I can't pug my way through them lol. They're pretty mechanic heavy, especially on hm, and can be challenging even for good teams.
We need more content like this imo.
Idk about Trials because I don't run them but moar challenging 4 man would be nice.
Agreed It may even tempt me to come back as there is not alot that has impressed me since my lay off..0 -
Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd LOVE overland content and dungeons to be harder to be honnest. Not harder to the point of making newbie players run away, but harder enough to teach new players how to actually play the game.
Edited by Elloa on April 6, 2017 11:40AM3 -
colig✭✭✭✭Some of the side quests that are not necessary for advancing the main questlines in zones could be a little harder.0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭It's true that the sense of peril is completely gone for most players in the general PvE zones since the One Tamriel update - with the exception maybe of world bosses. Almost all PvE zones and quests are designed for solo gameplay and will pose no challenge at all for experienced players.
I've made the suggestion, quite some time ago, before Orsinium was released, to have a veteran version of entire DLC zones. That would make PvE content harder so solo players could find some challenge there or you could do quests in those zones with a group of friends who then would actually have an impact and make this challenging content much easier.
I'd like to extend that suggestion now for all PvE zones - since they all have level and CP scaling now. It could work just like it works for dungeons now maybe: you select normal or veteran mode in the group window and the next time you switch zone, the new zone you enter will be in the mode you've chosen. Maybe slightly increase the XP reward for killing monsters and bosses in veteran mode PvE zones, but leave everything else as it is in normal mode so nobody is forced to play in vet mode if they don't want to.Edited by GaldorP on April 6, 2017 12:08PM0 -
Dreepa✭✭✭So I was skimming through the ESO section over at mmmorpg.com and also saw some comments in that regard. The question was:
Why I don't play ESO? and why don't you?
Curacura
February 5 edited February 5
Dull combat. Its easy but tedious EDIT: I mean comat during leveling. Couldnt force myslef to level past ~30
ChicagoCub
February 5
I don't play it because, like nearly every other MMO out today, you can sleep walk through it. No challenge and no risk. After a few hours of having everything handed to you, almost instantaneously, with little to no effort involved you begin to ask yourself what the point of the game is. Sadly, I don't think even the developers can answer that question anymore.
azarhalazarhal
February 5
I play ESO, but I have a hard time sticking to it. I don't hate it, in fact, I actually like a lot about it...on paper. Unfortunately, once in the game it just bore me.
- lackluster exploration, I think TES suffer from too many "area quests" while it doesn't have enough cave/dungeon/fun area with monsters with no quest attached like the SP games.
Bluefear77 said:
I've tried to play ESO many times. Actually, I don't think there is a game that I've tried to like as many times as ESO, but I always end up bored and quitting after a week.
WarlyxWarlyx Posts:
February 5
same here , something is missing , dunno what its ...i think the questing , gameplay is kinda "meh" , i tried a lot of times to enjoy it and had no luck
BurntCabbageBurntCabbage
February 6
it does not keep my attention long enough ..its dull and boring and basically a fast grind to go pvp..the whole time playing im thinking to myself that it has something missing but i just cant seem to put my finger on it..
Just to name a few postings from over there.3 -
blabliblargh✭✭Regular questing is indeed too easy once you get past level 50 with CP and uber gear. But before that I think difficulty is just fine. I remember when I was leveling up to level 30 or 40 and understanding combat mechanics, being entirely new with MMOs. During that period I remember dying quite a bit and not finding the game that easy (nor overly difficult).
Now being CP 230 and having completed the DC quests and wanting to start questing in other alliances I really hesitate between creating a new character for each alliance or using my overpowered character. Still debating what to do, but will probably choose the former, to at least have some challenge and feel weak again.
Speaking of challenges in the overland, it still can be found soloing group quests and delves in Craglorn as well as soloing world bosses (at CP 200 it is challenging, not sure how it is at CP 600). Soloing dolmens and public dungeons can be somewhat challenging prior CP 50 I think.
Edited by blabliblargh on April 6, 2017 12:37PM0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »GreenhaloX wrote: »Total boredom.. what the?! Yes, it was getting a bit monotonous doing the same dailies and other repeatable contents leveling up to max CP and beyond for one toon, and it was seemingly getting a bit boring. However, after creating three other toons of each class, I am enjoying the skillsets of each toon class. Plus, it has been over a year since I've done any regular line quests, and it is actually interesting to redo the quests with a new toon. I had actually forget a lot of what the quests entail, and it is kind of like experiencing new again with the new toon. Also, new contents (festivals, dlc and such) are being added every so often. So, how the hell are you saying total boredom? Something's wrong with you, dude. Ha ha
The boredom was not about the world and the story/quests. They are done very well. The boredom part was about the lackluster of depth in game-play / combat duration / anti-climax feeling.
That's because you guys are doing solo content as a group.
Yeah, it seems like it. It is kinda weird to have an MMO being advertised with exploration and multiplayer, just to find out that the game's systems actually don't handle playing with your friends that well.
I mean, one of the major points for 1T was to bring people together and to have character from different progressions states be able to play together. Yet, when you do exactly that, the game does not really handle it well. Sure, it has group content somwhere, but that is not the promise of the game. The promise is: Get your friends and explore Tamriel.
That being said, even if you are actually doing the solo content solo, you have random players interfering with your solo content in a way that the effect is the same: Areas cleared of mobs before you know whats going on, free walk to the dungeon boss, and a boss fight that feels like beating a trash mob (due to the other players basically making you a "pug" group).
As I have said before, there is actual group content for you and your group:
1) Craglorn: the entire zone is designed for group questing.
2) World bosses in all zones.
3) Group dungeons.
4) DSA and Trials
As "play however you want", it is stupid if you forbid players from questing together. With that said, as this is an Elder Scrolls game, solo questing is very important as this is what 99,99% of players do. There's no way to balance the mobs out for both solo players and groups, it is just impossible, so you will have to take the trade-off if you want to do solo content as a group. If you want challenge, wear level 1 gear and do it. Please tell me where the game promise that open world questing is balanced for group play all across Tamriel? I haven't seen anything like that.
The game handles playing with your friend very well. Craglorn, an entire zone. World bosses. Group dungeons, DSA and Trials. Cyrodiil, a massive zone with PvP. Imperial City. There are many ways for you and your friends to enjoy the game together. If you refuse to do them, oh well, maybe the game is not for you.
I don't see any problem with random people in the quest areas, and as you can see in my signature, I care deeply for immersion. It makes the world more lively, there's another hero trying to do something good, well that's good news.
Yes, as you have said before there is group content, which I repeatedly took into account in my considerations and arguments made. :-)
I have explained the issue of first contact with the game and the retrospective decision making requirement of knowing the game before being able to structure one's one game experience. You talk from the perspective of a knowledgeable ESO player, not a newcomer that is in the orientation phase of the game.
And still, I have also explained that soloing is also suffering from group "pug" stomping. The experience is not designed well overall.
If you want to be toxic, fine. But stop putting things into my mouth. I didn't refuse anything. I am talking about the early game flow when playing with friends and solo, and the issues that arose while doing so.
On the topic of impossibility: I think there is always a solution to a design issue if you step of the beaten path. Dynamic game systems are a challenging topic, but innovation comes from smart brains that tackle things no one dared to tackle before.
Else we would still be fighting like in Everquest 1
@Dreepa
How am I toxic? Please tell me where I insulted you, or offended you in anyway? I am lost. Now i am offended by your false accusation.
If you are absolutely new to the game, there's no way you can storm through the content. There are so many things for new players to learn and figure out by themselves, they don't know how to fight, don't know what gear to use, don't know how to block, dodge roll effectively, don't know how to put points in in passives. No way those absolutely new players can burn through the content like a piece of cake just by themselves, even when they group up.
As I have said before, I have done vMA, not saying i am one of the best or anything (i am not), but i have done the hardest content that many has failed to complete so it means i am not a bad player. When i lvl up an alt, sometimes i die in the open world (while wearing full blue training gear with purple training weapons) when i make a mistake. Yes, I know all the combat mechanics, all kind of combos, all the animation cancelling techniques, how to block, how to dodge roll etc, and sometimes I still die in the open world. Granted my gear might be 6-8 levels outdated, but that cannot be so much worse that white dropped gear that new players use. I don't think it is possible to burn through open world content easily with just light and heavy attacks (it is possible, but no way a piece of cake).
Apparently you are not new to the game, as you have admitted, you have played through it, you know all the mechanics, so that's why it's easy for you and a group of players to do open world content. Not so much for new players. You should put yourself into the perspective of a new player. Ironic, huh? The most important point, as you are not new to the game, you know about Craglorn, you know about group activities, and yet you choose to carry your friends through solo content. I don't think it's ZOS's fault in this case.
Again, about seeing random players while you are questing, I don't see any problem with that, and as you can see in my signature, I care deeply for immersion. You are trying to take down this boss, and some other hero jumps in to help you. It makes the world more lively, there's another hero trying to do something good, well that's good news.
On the topic of impossibility: I want a pig that can fly. Not sure how we can achieve this though.
Okay, toxic was the wrong word. Sorry. I meant: You neglect my opinion as a valid one and say I play the game wrong. Which is a bad way to approach the concerns of someone. If there is a "right" way to play a game (a statement on which I disagree generally, there should not be "a wrong way" to play a game) then the game designer needs to make sure that the player immediately understands what this "right way" is, and should prevent him from player the "wrong" way. But this is getting too theoretical anyway.
From my viewpoint the experience of getting into the game when playing together with friend is not well designed, and what you say did not apply to me or my friends. They are not MMO nerds, but they are pretty standard gamers. They know how to equip an item and understand the basic concepts. Like most gamers do. People have played at least one hack and slay or other game to not be "super idiotic" in how they approach the game. And even if they were, playing as a group totally kills the power balance in a way that you do not learn the combat mechanics either. It is actually doing the opposite of what you describe: The group just rolls over the content, and never really gets into a danger situation that would require them to learn the mechanics. What was that red path on the ground the mob just made? Oh nevermind, we auto-attacke him to death.
Those abilities we got? That stun, or CC, or incrase healing? ... Oh! A fireball! Lets spam it! Hey, it works! Cool! Just continue auto attack and fireball!
People do not learn the game with this approach. Actually they even might have a harder time learning it, because once they are leveling up and getting online solo, they might get destroyed because they now are level 20 and have, up until now, just auto attacked their way to victory, when suddenly they are challenged in a way they dont know how to handle.
I respect your opinion, and I can understand where you are coming from, but I just don't agree. This can be done better. Way better.
On the topic of impossibilities: It is not impossible to have dynamic systems in a game that react to player population. Spawn rates and mob strength are parameters we have available without much hassle.
One approach could be to get info about players involved (how many + what level) in an over-world cave/crypt/dungeon, and scale enemy strength accordingly. This would need to be adapted permanently by the system, as player enter and leave the cave. Maybe even player vicinity might be a factor, but scanning for distances might be more CPU heavy on the server.
For certain quests, it might be an option to lock the boss room, when a fight has started and only after the boss is dead, or the fight ended, the door is open again. So players have a proper start and ending of the fight, and don't join mid fight.
Instancing, of course, would be the best option, but someone here already said that the tech behind ESO wouldn't be able to handle so many instances.
I don't mean your way of playing the game is wrong. But you play the game the boring way (although you already know that it's a boring way and there are non-boring way to play the game) then you complain about the game being boring. That's where you are wrong, not your way of playing the game. No, I am not saying playing with friend is the boring way, it's the fact that you as a veteran player carried your group of friends through the solo content with all of your knowledge, despite knowing about group content. If the players are absolutely new, they will struggle to get through the solo content. Even when 2 or 3 of absolutely new players group up, they only do quests easier, it's no way a piece of cake.
"Auto attack"? What? There's no auto attack in this game. Oh you mean light attack and heavy attack. Haha. Try to spam light and heavy attack through the game. It might be possible, but it's not a piece of cake. I don't believe that absolutely new players can "rolls over the content, and never really gets into a danger situation" even if they play in the group and only spam light and heavy attacks. I call that statement false, again, for the 99th time. I have done vMA, not saying i am one of the best or anything (i am not), but i have done the hardest content that many has failed to complete so it means i am not a bad player. When i lvl up an alt, sometimes i die in the open world (while wearing full blue training gear with purple training weapons) when i make a mistake. Yes, I know all the combat mechanics, all kind of combos, all the animation cancelling techniques, how to block, how to dodge roll etc, and sometimes I still die in the open world. Granted my gear might be 6-8 levels outdated, but that cannot be so much worse that white dropped gear that new players use. I don't think it is possible to burn through open world content easily with just light and heavy attacks (it might be possible, but no way it's easy).
"Those abilities we got? That stun, or CC, or incrase healing? ... Oh! A fireball! Lets spam it! Hey, it works! Cool! Just continue auto attack and fireball!"---> what are you talking about, spammable DPS abilities are the first ones in every skill tree.
Do not avoid my point: Apparently you are not new to the game, as you have admitted, you have played through it, you know all the mechanics, so that's why it's easy for you and a group of players to do open world content. Not so much for new players. You should put yourself into the perspective of a new player. Ironic, huh? The most important point, as you are not new to the game, you know about Craglorn, you know about group activities, and yet you choose to carry your friends through solo content. I don't think it's ZOS's fault in this case.
On the topic of impossibilities: too many instances is not possible, as we all agree. Tech limitation is one thing, spreading players in the open world in too many instances is not a good idea for an MMO. There are already threads complaining about how this game looks dead because there are too many instances, imagine what will happen if they introduce more instances and spread players even more. People will think this game is dying, when apparently it's not and everyone is just in a different instance.
All of your suggestions require too many instances. I don't see how they will work.
Tl;dr: Real new players will struggle to get through solo content even when 2-3 of them group up, you don't have to agree about them. Take care of yourself first, do yourself a favour and play through craglorn with your group. You know crag exists. People who don't know crag exists are struggling through solo content anyway even when 2-3 of them group up.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Mush55✭✭✭✭Yup every thing is handed to you, armour now drops like confetti, just need to grind for the trait you want.
Nothing no worse than getting the piece you want only in a crap trait and having to grind for a better trait, I would sooner not have the armour drop than this sadistic way of trying to progress.
But thats a totally different issue but still adds to the boredom .................0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Please tell me where the game promise that open world questing is balanced for group play all across Tamriel? I haven't seen anything like that.
Oh, @hmsdragonfly, about that one: You are right, it has not been mentioned explicitly as in a big slogan on the webpage or in a trailer, but it has been the vibe of the marketing communcations ever since.
Exploring and seeing the world is part of the TES brand. Anyone who is asked what they like about the TES brand will say: Exploring the world, finding adventure. And since 1T was also being put into a good light with points like "Everyone can play together now" this is also going into that same direction.
So it is not really an explicit promise made somewhere on the ESO page, bit it is more an implicit promise coming from the brand AND the fact that this is called an "online game" or MMO, and also the general vibe that comes across when devs talk about the game in interviews and community-management statements like done for 1T.
EDIT:
Actually, there is even EXPLICIT advertising... I just found... Here:
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/onetamriel
"Welcome to One Tamriel, a world of opportunity without restriction! An unprecedented achievement for an online RPG, One Tamriel removes Alliance restrictions and will automatically level your characters to match the difficulty of the content wherever you are in the world. Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!"
So where do they say open world questing is balanced for group play all across Tamriel? You can do whatever you want, but there's no guarantee that it will be the most efficient way to do things, they never guarantee that, it has been the concept of the TES series.
You can certainly accept any quest with your friend, it is possible to do. "Everyone can play together now" is true. There's no guarantee that solo content is balanced for group play. I don't see it. They have an entire zone for group questing, it is called craglorn, as it is not possible to balance solo questing for groups.Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 6, 2017 1:09PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1
This discussion has been closed.