Healing versatililty problem!

Rewws
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So, I love healing, and in the beginning I had no idea what was what so I chose Sorcerer as my main. Now I got over 20k achievement points on my sorcerer and want to keep playing on him, but I find it awkward to be maining healing on him mainly because he is lacking versatility. With the resto staff healing spells you CAN heal any scenario, but throwing a few other skills in especially class skills makes it more fun and more verstatile...however ALWAYS when I join groups saying I can heal people frown and start pouting asking questions and saying they would prefer a templar for healing. So here is the deal: I have no doubt that templar healer is better ( I have 3 myself) but why can't I be a more reliable healer on my sorcerer? The main issue being resource sustain. Right now the only 3 options I have to help my group sustain their stamina is by using master staff from vDSA, Sentinel of Rkugamz set, or the circle of protection stam regen morph. Every tank I've seen is adapting some sort of "optimal" trials build, where they rely on spear shards from templars, and their build simply can't do the job if they aren't supplied with some sort of sustain. Making most people frown if they see a DK, NB or Sorc healer.

If I get a masters staff I would need to spam most of the time grand healing which would be ok...but I like using overtime and other types of healing aswell. And grand healing can be tricky in very stressful situations to aim and place on long distances if you are trying to avoid mechanics etc etc. And although it's not super hard, masters staff can be hard to get for casual players.

If I use Rkugamz I would need people to take damage for it to proc, and it procs most of the time too early when none needs stam or after combat when people have moved or are moving, this is also so unreliable because the spider that gives stam moves to the closest enemy and starts the ability there, if I want to give my tank stam I have to alert them of looking for bright green circles and sidestepping into them before the dungeon starts (I do this literally every time I enter a group as healer), which can also be risky if the boss has aoe abilities etc and I also have to ask people if they are stam builds so that I can swap to a suboptimal unreliable proc set that CAN give stam, but that fails 90% of the time. I can increase the chances of it landing on the tank by standing behind the tank, but as you "all" may know that isn't smart or possible in all fights.

If I use the circle of protection stam regen morph I can aid my group with damage mitigation and regen, but since tanks are blocking 24/7 (most are) they don't benefit from regen, and seeing as a healer slot most of his points (usually all) into magicka for stronger heals and larger pool I consume most of my stamina simply by dropping this, making me super vulnerable for a time if I don't chug stamina potions, which I would like to save for magicka since healing is my primary job.

All in all healing on other classes then templar is a big hassle and I would love to see some spells that can give people an alternative as to provide stamina for their group without having to screw up your build or run a suboptimal setup of any kind. The best way I think you could do this ZOS is by giving undaunted tree a stamina spell (a magicka version already exists, so why not stam?) like activating webs synergy gives X stamina, nobody uses this spell anyway. Or altar of blood can be activated to provide stamina to the group, but I like the idea of the webs better tbh. OR you can add a morph or a completely new spell to the 3 main skilltrees for all classes that gives them something they don't have yet. This would make the game more fun to play and mine and many others lives much easier and feel rewarding, please help! ;)

PS: I have healed all current content including trials and dungeons normal and vet and HM with my sorc, but it's still not as happy a life as it could be.

Rewws
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    Same thing pretty much goes for DK's being superior at tanking too I guess.
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    I know warden is coming out with new sustain abilities, please don't start adding that to this, the whole point of my post is that we need to be able to NOT rely on other classes in order to bring less used classes as healers.
  • IronCrystal
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    I won't deny that templars have far more ways to give stam back to teamates, but I would argue a good tank in 4 man content shouldn't need stam being given to them. If they use igneous shield and potions they should have plenty of stam. If they are lacking the magicka to use igneous shields, you can throw orbs, use worms, ele drain.

    As far as healing springs, it is one of the most useful heals in the game. It is the primary heal for trial healers, along with combat prayer, both of which are in resto staff line. I would recommend getting used to targeting it on players.

    Granted I was a templar, but I've co-healed with a dragonknight healer in vmol for crying out loud, people can deal with a non-templar in 4 man content.
    Edited by IronCrystal on April 2, 2017 3:23PM
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    Down with drama!


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  • Aquanova
    Aquanova
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    Three skills make Templars ideal for healing.

    1. BoL
    2. Shards
    3. Extended Ritual

    Sorcs have a BoL like skill (Twilight Matriarch). NB have something kinda like Ritual (Refreshing Path) minus the purge synergy.

    No other class or skill line has anything like Shards which restores stamina. That's why most groups prefer Templars, those three skills and their execute.

    NA/PC
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    Posted this on your other thread with the same name:

    Its mainly stamina support that the Templar has over everyone else and they have the extra HoT skill with super easy access to the Major Mending buff.

    I think if you run with 2 magicka DPS in dungeons you will do fine with a sorc, try using Emporering Ward too in there every 10s for some Minor Intellect giving them more magicka regen, then Ele Drain and Orbs and you are all good. And in Trials as long as you have 1 Templar you will be fine and have them be the stamina support and you the magicka support. The bigger thing here is of course that you got to be more selective with your groups and set ups like these are more for set teams that run consistently with each other and not PUGs.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Read through this thread - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305196/can-a-wizard-heal-with-resto-staff-as-good-as-a-templar-can/p1 - it has probably the best arguments for and against sorc healers and some of the best and most complete answers on how to do so.


    Just keep in mind that the fact that temps are the only class that can directly give stam back through in class skill is part of the design of the game, just like sorcs not having a spamable attack or dks not having an execute. Or the fact that temps are the only class without a in class skill to give major sorcery/brutality.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 2, 2017 4:17PM
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    Seriously guys, I have full control of what and what not, all I am saying is that templars can join any group with crap tank and no real group setup, and they dont have to ask if anyone is a stam dps, ( they can, but don't have to), they can use reliable spells to refund the groups resources. If I have to be more selective with my groups when I want to play then there is something wrong with the game, in my opinion. I should be able to queue for a random group and be able to perform my job as healer in any given scenario with any kind of group. The way it is right now I can't. And if you read my post (perhaps some is a bit unclear, but there are too many captain obviouses here) I am fully aware of what makes templars better and what makes sorcs and other healers less reliable as healers.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    There is nothing wrong with the game. It is like that by design, the devs have said so many times. Just be happy that the SoR set exists, before that the master resto was it.

    I really am just not sure what you want, you say you have completed all content in the game but I guess you just don't want to be crapped on for not being a temp, so you want temp skills on a sorc? Let's just make the whole game homogeneous and class not mean a single thing then.
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    They can still be sorcerous abilities, or require different cast or synergy or positioning to accomplish the same goal, SoR is there, but it's incredibly unpredictable compared to a spammable shard with huge aoe pickup radius and ready whenever you want it, aimable at huge distances and does dmg....
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    atm all classes can do pretty much the same dmg, so why isn't NB and Sorc way superior in their "speciality" then?
  • Huyen
    Huyen
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    The only reason people want templar healers is because they dont can sustain their resources without one. Others (I'm a NB healer myself) are just as good, exept without the resource-buffs.
    Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)

    "Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    Why do people keep repeating the same things I posted in the original post? I want to discuss why the classes do very similar in dps aspects of the game but having 1 class shine superior in healing?
    Edited by Rewws on April 2, 2017 4:38PM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Rewws wrote: »
    Why do people keep repeating the same things I posted in the original post? I want to discuss why the classes do very similar in dps aspects of the game but having 1 class shine superior in healing?

    Okay, that is easy, because 90% of people play DPS and they get heard the most. Also the way each does DPS is different and unique to that class, even stam builds, even if they mostly use weapon abilities to do damage, each class has there own "flavor".

    And one class shines in giving stamina directly back to the group, not healing itself, as you have shown every class can heal good enough for end game content.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 2, 2017 4:43PM
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    Exactly, so why isn't this the same way with healing? Most people like dps, most people like killing stuff, many people like solo play and being able to kill things efficiently is naturally useful. But I like healing, and many people like that, but we are then pretty much restricted to playing 1 class, if we want to be able to provide our groups with the things we need. Healing is a part of the game, and ES series is all about versatility and unique playstyles, kind of play it your way, but it's still not yet there.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Honestly the uphill battle lies more with the mindset of a vast majority of players that foolishly assume templars are the intended primary healers in the game. This is blatantly false. All classes are equiped with nearly the same amount of healing / support skills to suppliment the resto staff.

    What makes them ideal and imo gives them a bit of a monopoly in the healing role is stamina replenishment. Now in any 4 man content, this is generally unnecessary unless you are forced to carry sub par players but at that point, no amount of stamina is going to give them more damage vs just dpsing yourself. And if a tank.needs shards to even survive, just slot your sheilds and tank for him lol... Trust me you do not want to be THAT healer that queues up for a random vet and shows up with a bar setup suited for healing a trial group while providing 300 dps lol... Point being the primary reason a templar is considered the best healer is for a resource utility it has is not needed outside of trials. And in most trial groups you will have a templar regardless. I personally know a trial groups that have a non healing templar slot shards in there flex spot and throw it when necessary, while hardly effecting there dps rotation. Said group runs a nb and a sorc healer.

    It is not an accident that zos added a stamina recovery monster set for healers. Its just that both that set and dsa resto staff feel like half measures that dont quite match up.

    Im actully quite happy warden was not given a stamina replenishment group utility. That would have only further solidified a number of players' belief that without it you cant be considered a primary healer. So now a dialogue will likely occur when mirrowind comes out on why the warden is not a strong PRIMARY healer, to which i will say, get in line begind the other 3 classes that arent a templar. Despite the wardens numerous healing abilities and passives, it will not off heal any better than a sorc, dk or nb period.

    OP if you enjoy healing and you enjoy your sorc, look for eductated like minded players that understand this game's nuance. For 4 man content it doesnt matter as im sure you know. In the meantime be parient, it is only a matter of time before stamina utility becomes more broadly accessible outside of templar.
    Edited by exeeter702 on April 2, 2017 4:57PM
  • Rewws
    Rewws
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    Thank you exeeter, I agree. Not sure how long "this time before stamina utility becomes broadly accessible outside of templar" will take though, so I'm here to speed up that process, andp put it on the map for ZOS, push for what I feel is lacking, and yes I do find equalminded people to do dungeons with, but even then people are skeptic, until they see that there is no problem. But they admit they feel safer with a shard standing ready to snatch, which is my primary reason for this post. Counting on other peoples in general to care, know and adapt their playstyle is in my experience like believing in santa (and tons of extra work, because the game is lacking...) , it's never going to happen, people WILL always play and see their role, goals and needs first.
    Edited by Rewws on April 2, 2017 5:00PM
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