If a CP 600 player leaves your group

hydrocynus · March 2017

I have seen many forum posts like the one recently about a guy who said he can't use the group finder as a DD because when the group is formed the Elite payers leave immediately.

I would just like to comment on this because I think the elite guys get a bad rap here.

I think the import thing to note is that in most 4 man dungeons in this game, any CP 600 player worth his salt would be able to carry a group through those dungeons (there are of course exceptions) on his own no matter the level of the other players in most cases. By saying that statement I am assuming of course that everyone who has joined the group has joined as their correctly intended role (ie the tank is a tank and the healer is a healer).

I have many friends that pug and enjoy pugging because they like to help people and know that they could easily finish the dungeons with some small support from the other guys.

So in my opinion if a CP 600 player leaves a group he is not a very good player and you are actually better off not continuing with him because inevitably you are going to get screamed at by him for things that are actually his fault.

As a CP 600 myself, I can firmly say that I have never ever left a group finder group without at least trying to complete the content with the formed group, and I am not alone. I have many friends that do the same.

bloodthirstyvampire · March 2017

Yes its good to teach the group so when you run in to them again they will be much more efficient

shadelon · March 2017

I try to teach and help lower levels all the time, heck that's what my guild is all about (i am GM of the League of Assassins on PS4 NA). When the group finder decides to actually work (which it hasn't lately, been constantly getting instances where it either doesn't port at all or if it does we get ported out as soon as we get in and it calls it 'activity complete'), i always stick with the group regardless of anyone's levels. And yes, i am capped.

Ps: zos should roll back the group finder changes from homestead. I can honestly say it worked a million times better before homestead.

malicia · March 2017

Very true.

I'm sitting in the middle - CP300 - and both the best and the worst players I've found in PUG groups were CP>500. Most groups can do the dungeons, and a CP600 who knows his stuff makes things go so much more smoothly.

The worst ones IMO were those who want to speed-run and thus queued for a role, without gearing and setting skills for that role. They're the ones who runs ahead of the tank, draw mobs from further down that the group aren't ready for, who forego healing in favor of DPS (when queued as healer), or who make snide comments about the group. Fortunately, they're few and far between.

Lvl 40 or CP600 - people are people. Idiots in real life tends to be idiots ingame as well, irrespective of how many CP they have.

akl77 · March 2017

hydrocynus wrote: »

I have seen many forum posts like the one recently about a guy who said he can't use the group finder as a DD because when the group is formed the Elite payers leave immediately.

I would just like to comment on this because I think the elite guys get a bad rap here.

I think the import thing to note is that in most 4 man dungeons in this game, any CP 600 player worth his salt would be able to carry a group through those dungeons (there are of course exceptions) on his own no matter the level of the other players in most cases. By saying that statement I am assuming of course that everyone who has joined the group has joined as their correctly intended role (ie the tank is a tank and the healer is a healer).

I have many friends that pug and enjoy pugging because they like to help people and know that they could easily finish the dungeons with some small support from the other guys.

So in my opinion if a CP 600 player leaves a group he is not a very good player and you are actually better off not continuing with him because inevitably you are going to get screamed at by him for things that are actually his fault.

As a CP 600 myself, I can firmly say that I have never ever left a group finder group without at least trying to complete the content with the formed group, and I am not alone. I have many friends that do the same.

Not really, if the healer or tank 600 that are outstanding at their role, but can't dps, how are they going to carry bad dps that just couldn't get the first 4 tigers down after a min in vet coa2. You can heal then and make sure they don't die, but the lacking in dps won't get pass the boss, the 2nd boss's adds will just keeps Restore her health at a rate greater than your group's dps. Then if you don't leave you'll be there forever.

GrigorijMalahevich · March 2017

When you go for random dungeon and get vet DLC dung with <160 cp people - I just leave, as it is obvious that I am going to have a bad time.

PUGs are annoying because they don't understand where damage is coming from and then they can suddenly leave.

For example: I get to vet Vollenfel (or whatever it is spelled) as a healer on my mag dk with vma build that has resto staff, so no problem.

On first boss I see that group dps is 12k and start DPSing... eventually end up soloing the whole dungeon and get constantly flamed by group members for not knowing how to play this game. On last boss they take HM and get wiped, I explain how to get away from blue boss and ask for 20 seconds to replace moondancer for lich 5x so I would be able to solo the boss and everyone leaves... so I just wasted almost hour of my time...

Don't blame anyone who had bad experience with PUGs and just doesn't want the aggro.

Stannum · March 2017

I'm tninking of it.. Usually it does not matter for me which group to run. But yesterdays case... vhm Direfrost keep DD cp18 never break free on boss beam attack. We wrote in chat but all in vain. I left and I wish i have left the group in the begining not to loose time. Now i think of leaving the group on that dngeons where one player can ruin all the run.

Rickter · March 2017

CP600 =/= elite player

just means they grinded a lot of champion points

Ender1310 · March 2017

Look. I tend to stay. Sometimes I leave. You can say whatever you want but I don't owe it to anyone to keep wiping. Normally I stick it out but there have been times when I'm just like forget it.

HatchetHaro · March 2017

Try it as a tank in a pug group with lvl 20s and less in Imperial City Prison. I asked, and they're new players.

Nobody has time for that. I, for one, only had half an hour.

So I advised the group to leave the dungeon and hope random dungeon finder deposits them into a friendlier dungeon.

So do I suck? Maybe. I do have several vMoL clears under my belt along with many more of the rest of the vet trials, with my name in some of the permanent leaderboards. You decide though.

Ender1310 · March 2017

Some of these bosses have mechanics that you have to know cp whatever ain't going to help that. Some groups the low cost is reflected in the healing and dps. In that case it's throw on harness and ward but you lose dps. Making the dungeon take forever. I have things to do I'll. NEver disrespect you but if it's not in my time frame I will leave.

akl77 · March 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Try it as a tank in a pug group with lvl 20s and less in Imperial City Prison. I asked, and they're new players.

Nobody has time for that. I, for one, only had half an hour.

So I advised the group to leave the dungeon and hope random dungeon finder deposits them into a friendlier dungeon.

So do I suck? Maybe. I do have several vMoL clears under my belt along with many more of the rest of the vet trials, with my name in some of the permanent leaderboards. You decide though.

Tanking vMol is real achievements.

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Try it as a tank in a pug group with lvl 20s and less in Imperial City Prison. I asked, and they're new players.

Nobody has time for that. I, for one, only had half an hour.

So I advised the group to leave the dungeon and hope random dungeon finder deposits them into a friendlier dungeon.

So do I suck? Maybe. I do have several vMoL clears under my belt along with many more of the rest of the vet trials, with my name in some of the permanent leaderboards. You decide though.

Did vet prison the other with pugs and me tanking. Max player was a cp53. Was all thier first time....but they all had mics...
Success.

Personofsecrets · March 2017

0 reason to stay with a group that is going to waste large amounts of time.

People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for college and you expect someone to take on a burdensome cost to teach others for a painful amount of time? Fat chance.

Asardes · March 2017

High CP =/= "Elite"

In fact I've met plenty of high, even capped CP scrubs, that play so bad you could swear they first logged into the game yesterday. Probably running laps in the desert blasting zombies so you can just see a number increment leads to permanent, debilitating brain damage, or simply there wasn't enough of that to get damaged in the first place.

On the other hand I've seen:
CP187 Stormproof, CP340 Flawless Conqueror, CP415 Dro-m'athra Destroyer

kylewwefan · March 2017

You should be judging things the whole time. If the first add pull takes forever to burn, it's gonna be a bad time guaranteed. Some groups just don't mix well for whatever reason. Most likely you'll figure this out before you get to the first boss.

But not this week. Nope. The group finder has been broke af.

cpuScientist · March 2017

I see what you are trying to say OP. However just cause someone can do something doesn't make them obligated to do so. People have things they wanna do lol, it might not fit their plans to spend all day soloing bosses or pulling a group, so honestly leaving is the best thing they can do if it's not nearing that players expectations.

Now on the notion that 600 CP players are these amazing specimens of ESO glory. Well that's silly. That just means they got to max level. Some may well be the most amazeballs players sure. But a ton just grinded and never really started playing, or never did said dungeon and do the k ow the mechanics.

I just wish people when they go on groupfinder understand that they are not the most important person in the world. They shouldn't expect to get pulled or expect to get people on their level. Just take what you get and leave if you don't like it.

code65536 · March 2017

Good DPS can carry bad tanks or healers.
Good tanks or healers can't carry bad DPS.

Magdalina · March 2017

Personofsecrets wrote: »

0 reason to stay with a group that is going to waste large amounts of time.

People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for college and you expect someone to take on a burdensome cost to teach others for a painful amount of time? Fat chance.

It can be fun to teach new people stuff, as long as they're willing to communicate and follow instructions. Also we were all new at some point

It's not the holy duty of any good player using the groupfinder though, I agree with that much. It's just a nice thing to do. Has to go both ways though, more experienced player has to be willing to explain and be patient, unexperienced player has to be willing to listen and follow, in order for that kind of group to work.

Asardes · March 2017

I remember back in August when Shadows of the Hist was released I teamed up with some friends, went in and spent a few hours learning the mechanics - there wasn't really any guide at that point - and managed to beat both on HM, also doing most smaller achievements in the process. So if people actually thought and understood what they were doing wrong, they would beat that content. What I saw in PuGs - I pugged a lot in my first few months in the game, doing a few random veteran dungeons a day for the XP bonus - is people making the same mistakes over and over again, despite quite clear explanations in group chat from my part. Some even berated and cursed me for having the nerve to "dictate how they play". Those who actually listened and successfully beat the dungeon were decidedly a minority. That's one of the reasons I stopped grouping with randoms - it's not the lack of CP, is the toxic attitude people in those groups tend to have. Some people are better left alone tho enjoy their special snowflakedom and intellectual limitations. If they don't use their brains they will be just as bad even with 3600 CP spent.

zuto40 · March 2017

I always que as tank, and when I see I have a level 48 and CP 168 as my dd's I'm sorry but I'm out, I'm not spending 2 hours on wayrest sewers to help dudes with baby deeps

Riga_Mortis · March 2017

As a cp600 DD the only time I leave the dungeon is if the healer and tank are low level DDs that q'd in as support roles for a quicker q time.

Dark_Aether · March 2017

zuto40 wrote: »

I always que as tank, and when I see I have a level 48 and CP 168 as my dd's I'm sorry but I'm out, I'm not spending 2 hours on wayrest sewers to help dudes with baby deeps

CP260 here. I got in a group for WS1 with CP158, CP72 tank and CP600 healer, healer stayed at entrance and quit before first boss. We queued again but got impatient and went on 3 man the dungeon to last boss, the only place we wiped once because of one shot mechanic, got a CP178 healer and finished HM like nothing.

It all depends on the dungeon, I would never try this with IC or SotH dungeons, but most vanilla dungeons don't need beast mode dps, just understanding the mechanics is enough.

You should know the group tool is for everyone, including bad players, so my advice is queue for dungeons you know you can carry the group if the need arises, get friends/guildies for those you cannot.

Mettaricana · March 2017

I leave when i see a heavy armor mag race spamming snipe and light attack as his main dps and a healer trying to be the dps more than the actual dps. Its not me being elite its me not wanting to wipe 90 times because they hitting like a pillow wielding a pillow

Asardes · March 2017

Dark_Aether wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

I always que as tank, and when I see I have a level 48 and CP 168 as my dd's I'm sorry but I'm out, I'm not spending 2 hours on wayrest sewers to help dudes with baby deeps

CP260 here. I got in a group for WS1 with CP158, CP72 tank and CP600 healer, healer stayed at entrance and quit before first boss. We queued again but got impatient and went on 3 man the dungeon to last boss, the only place we wiped once because of one shot mechanic, got a CP178 healer and finished HM like nothing.

It all depends on the dungeon, I would never try this with IC or SotH dungeons, but most vanilla dungeons don't need beast mode dps, just understanding the mechanics is enough.

You should know the group tool is for everyone, including bad players, so my advice is queue for dungeons you know you can carry the group if the need arises, get friends/guildies for those you cannot.

Well, depends how much time it took to get to the 1st boss, and to beat that. If you were beating on just trash for 5 minutes straight quitting was justified. That dungeon takes under 15 minutes, maybe 18 if you also do the rat boss in the side sewer dead end.

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Good tanks or healers can't carry bad DPS.

Agreed for the most part, but a well-geard/played, NB sap tank can carry most dismal dps through most vet pledges. A good healer can make the difference between crap dps completing content or not.

zaria · March 2017

zuto40 wrote: »

I always que as tank, and when I see I have a level 48 and CP 168 as my dd's I'm sorry but I'm out, I'm not spending 2 hours on wayrest sewers to help dudes with baby deeps

Why do you queue for random normal dungeons then?

Yes getting 3 very low level and IC Prison is understandable, simply say "this will not work, this stupid dungeon is as hard as a veteran one, nobody feel bad" it will also get the other to re queue rather than wasting time.

For real hopeless groups its another issue.

Absalon · March 2017

If you farming a specific gear on pugs, any under 160cp is a waste of slot.

Dark_Aether · March 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Dark_Aether wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

I always que as tank, and when I see I have a level 48 and CP 168 as my dd's I'm sorry but I'm out, I'm not spending 2 hours on wayrest sewers to help dudes with baby deeps

CP260 here. I got in a group for WS1 with CP158, CP72 tank and CP600 healer, healer stayed at entrance and quit before first boss. We queued again but got impatient and went on 3 man the dungeon to last boss, the only place we wiped once because of one shot mechanic, got a CP178 healer and finished HM like nothing.

It all depends on the dungeon, I would never try this with IC or SotH dungeons, but most vanilla dungeons don't need beast mode dps, just understanding the mechanics is enough.

You should know the group tool is for everyone, including bad players, so my advice is queue for dungeons you know you can carry the group if the need arises, get friends/guildies for those you cannot.

Well, depends how much time it took to get to the 1st boss, and to beat that. If you were beating on just trash for 5 minutes straight quitting was justified. That dungeon takes under 15 minutes, maybe 18 if you also do the rat boss in the side sewer dead end.

@Asardes WS1 trash are rats, lol. In case you missed what I wrote, the guy stayed at the entrance while we moved to 1st boss, at great pace, then quit. Like I said, 3 man the dungeon, 1 wipe on last boss before getting a low CP healer to get through it smoothly. He quit at the front door and did not bother to see anyone's performance.

GoBlue275 · March 2017

hydrocynus wrote: »

I think the import thing to note is that in most 4 man dungeons in this game, any CP 600 player worth his salt would be able to carry a group through those dungeons (there are of course exceptions) on his own no matter the level of the other players in most cases. By saying that statement I am assuming of course that everyone who has joined the group has joined as their correctly intended role (ie the tank is a tank and the healer is a healer).

Most can yes but why should they? At some point it starts getting really old. The people that get carried never learn, they only learn how to be carried at a higher level. There will always be a few gems that see what is going on and learn or adapt their play. However the vast majority of players expecting a carry will just continue to be carried and cry here on the forums about play your way, vote kicks and elitism.

I am a very patient Tank that enjoys the quick random que. I find myself coaching most groups of low levels. It is just insane to me that these are all new players. More likely these players go from one kind soul to another expecting a carry.

We as a community need to stop the coddling, and the "you must carry to be good mentality". We need to bring them up to our level but that should be on their guilds. Not random strangers that may or may not want to coach or train a random stranger. If they choose to leave and not coach why should we as a community hate on them?

Violynne · March 2017

hydrocynus wrote: »

As a CP 600 myself, I can firmly say that I have never ever left a group finder group without at least trying to complete the content with the formed group, and I am not alone. I have many friends that do the same.

It's very nice to see there are people out there who still believe in helping others. When I'm ready, I'm looking forward to learning to work with a group in dungeons, as currently I feel more a burden than a help (which I'm working on).

Unfortunately, the LFG tool doesn't give us detailed information on users such as "I'm a whiner and elitist, and you must be [x] before I help" or "I'm only in it for myself" or "You need to L2P because I'm actually worse than my bragging".

I suppose it comes with the territory, just like in real life.