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Can someone pls explain me, why are Warlord and Magician CP stars being changed/nerfed?
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Yo_Donno✭✭✭Rich said on ESO live they're not happy that resource management has basically been removed because of CP.
They want to try and get back to a point where management of resources is part of the games tactical play (it was one of the original game design points).
He said nothing is final yet, it's all in testing.
We also don't know if what other changes to gear or content will happen along side this, until we have the full picture it's hard to say if it's good or bad.
Also writing this in a bus bombing down a county road and bouncing about is horrible.
How can people not understand that resource management is still a thing?
1. Raids still have to provide high support for their magicka dps characters (esp. MDKS) which is why sets like Worm and skills like mystic orb, elemental drain, luminous shards, and radiant aura are so popular.
2. The DPS themselves still need to keep their resources up by slotting skills like channeled focus and using potions to give themselves 20% increased regen for the whole fight.
3. Regen food is not worthless; I still run witch mother's in trials generally because even with full raid buffs I struggle to sustain if Im using blue food.
I don't understand what they're talking about that "resource management can be ignored" it makes no sense. Raids run countless buffs to help people keep their resources and ZoS wants to just add more that is required which will bring down DPS significantly and make fights that have dps gates like Varlariel uncompletable for certain groups?Edited by Yo_Donno on March 26, 2017 6:10PM5 -
I'm looking forward to the change myself. Resource management is nonexistent. PvE mechanics are mostly ignored. It needs balancing in PvP as well. I would like to see medium and light armor become an option in PvP as well. Heavy armor is to overpowered at the moment. There are more issues that need addressing too. At the moment the game is in easy mode.0 -
Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
There is absolutely nothing wrong with vet trials being hard. However, only a tiny fraction of the playerbase has ever been able to complete a vet trial, let alone on hard mode. Any change that shrinks this population even more is not a positive change. Especially considering that the devs explicitly said that they wanted to raise the floor and lower the ceiling.frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »If this will happen .. elitist players will become more elitists.
The vet trials will be only for elitists.
The rest of the players base will stuck on the normal ones.
vMA also will become harder.
That's it .
Nerfing players is the worst decision ever made by a mmo developer . Too bad, because ESO is great game ...but ZOS don't play their own game..
English is not my native language.
And that is a bad thing... How?
Begone entitled snowflake who needs every hard content handed over to you on a silver platter, it's not like 99% of the rest of the game is a steamroll, no, it all has to be - just for you. Sick of your lot already. If you don't put the effort in, you DON'T deserve the achievements, gear, mementos associated with said hard content. Simples.
And English is not my native language too.
What I don't understand is why "The overwhelming majority of the playerbase can't complete this content, so please don't make it even harder than it already is" gets taken as "I want all of the vet trial achievements right now, and I don't want to have to work for them," because that is not what people are saying. There are plenty of players who are more than willing to work towards the ability to complete vet trials. But I guarantee that a lot fewer people will be willing to work for that if devs suddenly move the goal posts much further away.
I haven't even completed normal Maelstrom yet. As a casual player, the moment I hit a frustrating wall, I just quit playing that content. I just want to have fun and don't give a darn about their "mechanics" and nitpicky resource management they want to implement.PS4 Pro NA3 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
No, it isn't. DPS characters cannot sustain their resources on their own if they're wearing BiS gear, so the healers slot several abilities (Elemental Drain, Luminous Shards, Necrotic Orb), and frequently use an entire 5-piece armor set (Worm Cult), just so that the DPS characters have enough resources to carry out a fight. Resource management is not nonexistent. It's usually just handled by the healers instead of the DPS, so that the DPS can throw everything into offense, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot going into it.Maximusx13 wrote: »I'm looking forward to the change myself. Resource management is nonexistent. PvE mechanics are mostly ignored. It needs balancing in PvP as well. I would like to see medium and light armor become an option in PvP as well. Heavy armor is to overpowered at the moment. There are more issues that need addressing too. At the moment the game is in easy mode.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
In short, raid groups has understand that resources is an group thing. its far better to go all out damage and have the raid buffs give resources. It would be an small issue to have some dps provide orbs too, far better than sustain builds.Rich said on ESO live they're not happy that resource management has basically been removed because of CP.
They want to try and get back to a point where management of resources is part of the games tactical play (it was one of the original game design points).
He said nothing is final yet, it's all in testing.
We also don't know if what other changes to gear or content will happen along side this, until we have the full picture it's hard to say if it's good or bad.
Also writing this in a bus bombing down a county road and bouncing about is horrible.
How can people not understand that resource management is still a thing?
1. Raids still have to provide high support for their magicka dps characters (esp. MDKS) which is why sets like Worm and skills like mystic orb, elemental drain, luminous shards, and radiant aura are so popular.
2. The DPS themselves still need to keep their resources up by slotting skills like channeled focus and using potions to give themselves 20% increased regen for the whole fight.
3. Regen food is not worthless; I still run witch mother's in trials generally because even with full raid buffs I struggle to sustain if Im using blue food.
I don't understand what they're talking about that "resource management can be ignored" it makes no sense. Raids run countless buffs to help people keep their resources and ZoS wants to just add more that is required which will bring down DPS significantly and make fights that have dps gates like Varlariel uncompletable for certain groups?
Not sure how this works for stamina builds in raids, is this even discussed?
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not an issue, devs plays with streamers not casuals.EldritchPenguin wrote: »
There is absolutely nothing wrong with vet trials being hard. However, only a tiny fraction of the playerbase has ever been able to complete a vet trial, let alone on hard mode. Any change that shrinks this population even more is not a positive change. Especially considering that the devs explicitly said that they wanted to raise the floor and lower the ceiling.frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »If this will happen .. elitist players will become more elitists.
The vet trials will be only for elitists.
The rest of the players base will stuck on the normal ones.
vMA also will become harder.
That's it .
Nerfing players is the worst decision ever made by a mmo developer . Too bad, because ESO is great game ...but ZOS don't play their own game..
English is not my native language.
And that is a bad thing... How?
Begone entitled snowflake who needs every hard content handed over to you on a silver platter, it's not like 99% of the rest of the game is a steamroll, no, it all has to be - just for you. Sick of your lot already. If you don't put the effort in, you DON'T deserve the achievements, gear, mementos associated with said hard content. Simples.
And English is not my native language too.
What I don't understand is why "The overwhelming majority of the playerbase can't complete this content, so please don't make it even harder than it already is" gets taken as "I want all of the vet trial achievements right now, and I don't want to have to work for them," because that is not what people are saying. There are plenty of players who are more than willing to work towards the ability to complete vet trials. But I guarantee that a lot fewer people will be willing to work for that if devs suddenly move the goal posts much further away.
I haven't even completed normal Maelstrom yet. As a casual player, the moment I hit a frustrating wall, I just quit playing that content. I just want to have fun and don't give a darn about their "mechanics" and nitpicky resource management they want to implement.
That is until replaced, the Orc, Argonian and Khajiit giving out daily quests these days might be an fitting replacement.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
EldritchPenguin wrote: »
No, it isn't. DPS characters cannot sustain their resources on their own if they're wearing BiS gear, so the healers slot several abilities (Elemental Drain, Luminous Shards, Necrotic Orb), and frequently use an entire 5-piece armor set (Worm Cult), just so that the DPS characters have enough resources to carry out a fight. Resource management is not nonexistent. It's usually just handled by the healers instead of the DPS, so that the DPS can throw everything into offense, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot going into it.Maximusx13 wrote: »I'm looking forward to the change myself. Resource management is nonexistent. PvE mechanics are mostly ignored. It needs balancing in PvP as well. I would like to see medium and light armor become an option in PvP as well. Heavy armor is to overpowered at the moment. There are more issues that need addressing too. At the moment the game is in easy mode.
Yeah I know about all the buffs and the last 3 or 4 trial runs I've been in there was so much DPS I didn't go below 50% on my resources. Never even seen the first shard or orb. Didn't need them. Especially at higher cp levels. Oh and I'm running BiS slot too. So yeah nonexistent. Looking forward to the change and players might have to actually play then.0 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maximusx13 wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
No, it isn't. DPS characters cannot sustain their resources on their own if they're wearing BiS gear, so the healers slot several abilities (Elemental Drain, Luminous Shards, Necrotic Orb), and frequently use an entire 5-piece armor set (Worm Cult), just so that the DPS characters have enough resources to carry out a fight. Resource management is not nonexistent. It's usually just handled by the healers instead of the DPS, so that the DPS can throw everything into offense, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot going into it.Maximusx13 wrote: »I'm looking forward to the change myself. Resource management is nonexistent. PvE mechanics are mostly ignored. It needs balancing in PvP as well. I would like to see medium and light armor become an option in PvP as well. Heavy armor is to overpowered at the moment. There are more issues that need addressing too. At the moment the game is in easy mode.
Yeah I know about all the buffs and the last 3 or 4 trial runs I've been in there was so much DPS I didn't go below 50% on my resources. Never even seen the first shard or orb. Didn't need them. Especially at higher cp levels. Oh and I'm running BiS slot too. So yeah nonexistent. Looking forward to the change and players might have to actually play then.
You're running the easier trials then in normal mode.3 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm open to the removal or change in these trees only if ZoS takes a hard look at some of their sets and buff them up so we have more options.
There are many threads on these sets so I won't go into detail. They know which sets are under-used and I think they are intelligent enough to figure out why.2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a change that will improve the health of the game. It's a change that is mostly aimed at PvE.
Change your jewlery enchants and you'll be g2g. Or run a sustain set.
Yeah, this is so true. On the other hand, it will cripple dps a lot. 174 x 3 = 522 spell/weapon damage less. Add there A MUST of more heavy attacks in our rotations, and see why we QQ so much.
Also, do you know what impact will this have on random dungeons, now when you queue as a DD and other DD is lvl 13? When your healer is not providing enough shards, simply because now they cost more and you need them more than b4? Sure will be fun reading forums, with threads such as- "kick anyone below cp 300 from normal dungeon"
- "don't queue for veteran dungeons if you are not at least cp600"
- "I was tanking and DDs were using only light attacks until we were wiped for 12th time in a row"
- "My sad 3.5h vCOA experience - a true story by Anon healer"
Warden healers will be OP with stamina and Magicka regain then you won't feel it.
Few people ever notice but sorcerer healer gives 10% regain in Magicka (balance issue compared to warden)
Templars have shards
Other healers good luck....
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ifDoubtNerfIt wrote: »The title says it, can someone pls explain me this non-sense change, ZOS is planning to do in June with Morrowind expansion?
It makes no sense....
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/328864/warlord-and-magician-cp-being-removed-in-morrowind/p1
They said in ESO live that they don't want the game to head the way it heads. The game is dependent on CP trees and they don't like it, you can completly ignore your regen and go with full dps (dmg glyphs on jewelry and weapons).
I mean, dps'es literally have ~720 stam/mag regen, like wtf? (some even lower)
While I personally haven't entirely made up my mind about this change(especially without knowing all the other changes possible), if that's the reasoning, it seems kind of weird.
The 700 mag/stam dps already can't sustain, the way they do sustain is by (their healers) using Ele Drain/Radiant Aura, Repent, Shards, Warhorn, Worm, Orbs etc buffs. Their self buffed dps is quite a bit lower and they generally have to slot ele drain themselves in order to be able to do it at all and not just heavy attack spam. So if anything, this change would hit average players the most, PvE-wise, because they're the ones who'll have to go regen instead of damage due to imperfect groups, whereas the "op" ones will just ask healers to spam moar orbs and be fine probably. Which'd likely only widen the gap, further discouraging experienced players from playing with...less experienced ones, which is the last thing we need.
To me it seems more oriented at PvP but again I'm unsure how well that'd go there since the FotM heavy armor builds rely on heavy armor passives, not regen so much, so it seems like it'd be more of a nerf to medium/light armor users which are already in the minority. But then suppose we don't know the full picture yet so we'll see how it goes.
It will effect healers the most.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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You have either been living under an bridge the last month or you are an obvious troll.and all the crybabys suddenly come out of their caves... adjust and learn. newbz
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
One awesome for optimism, I don't share it as I see incompetence in action.brandonv516 wrote: »I'm open to the removal or change in these trees only if ZoS takes a hard look at some of their sets and buff them up so we have more options.
There are many threads on these sets so I won't go into detail. They know which sets are under-used and I think they are intelligent enough to figure out why.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
XGCAlbatr0ss✭✭✭
Man unfortunately I have to do this......
I guess we'll now all be "unscathing" mages.....,
4 -
Quigster✭✭✭The title says it, can someone pls explain me this non-sense change, ZOS is planning to do in June with Morrowind expansion?
It makes no sense....
You will reads lots of comments and arguments both for and against the change, but the bottom line is this:
1. Some players have no resource issues, or near infinite resources...read that as "some"
2. This means "some" players do have resource issues and have to build for / take into account resource regeneration
3. The proposed change will affect ALL players
4. Any time a rule / change is enacted that affects "everybody" because of "some" people, you have unfair implementation
Rather like punishing an entire classroom because one student acts out. Unjustifiable and indefensible. A very poor way to handle any problem.
So, is the proposed change appropriate: the answer is no. If you do not understand that answer, read 1 - 4 above again.
Will the change be implemented, very likely. Games, as well as life, is full of examples of inappropriate rules and laws. Just because they are inappropriate hasn't stopped them before and probably will not stop them now.
Apparently there is a developer that is not happy with how resource management is working out for those players outlined in number 1 above. So, my response is: create a fix that affects the players / situation at hand, without affecting the players who are not having a problem. Or, perhaps the issue is more fundamental than that.
Is the goal of this game to make the developer happy, or the customers happy?(50) Quigster Bosmer Stamplar
(50) Lorithar Lightcrest Altmer Mag Sorc
(50) Tanius Magnitus Argonian Magplar
(50) Kalethar Redguard Stamplar
(50) Ra'Jo Darkstrike Khajiit Stamblade
(50) Gen Maximus Imperial Stam DK
(50) Jakon Fenrif Redguar Stam Sorc
(50) Revus Meredor Dunmer Mag DK
(50) Gorath the Silent Orc Stamblade
(31) Bjorn Ironhand Nord Stamplar
(28) Lord Devin Woodhearth Breton Magblade
Altaholic, CP 600+6 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭The more I think about this change—the more I realize that this only hurts the lower level raid groups, and solo/duo pvp players. Perhaps they'll adjust the cost of MagDKs abilities—right now on live in 5x Heavy Seducer, with 2 Cost reductions and 100 points in Arcanist my whip still costs 1644. You'll get to a point on this class where you have to stack two sustain sets, while everyone else gets one damage set, and one sustain set.4
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The title says it, can someone pls explain me this non-sense change, ZOS is planning to do in June with Morrowind expansion?
It makes no sense....
You will reads lots of comments and arguments both for and against the change, but the bottom line is this:
1. Some players have no resource issues, or near infinite resources...read that as "some"
2. This means "some" players do have resource issues and have to build for / take into account resource regeneration
3. The proposed change will affect ALL players
4. Any time a rule / change is enacted that affects "everybody" because of "some" people, you have unfair implementation
Rather like punishing an entire classroom because one student acts out. Unjustifiable and indefensible. A very poor way to handle any problem.
So, is the proposed change appropriate: the answer is no. If you do not understand that answer, read 1 - 4 above again.
Will the change be implemented, very likely. Games, as well as life, is full of examples of inappropriate rules and laws. Just because they are inappropriate hasn't stopped them before and probably will not stop them now.
Apparently there is a developer that is not happy with how resource management is working out for those players outlined in number 1 above. So, my response is: create a fix that affects the players / situation at hand, without affecting the players who are not having a problem. Or, perhaps the issue is more fundamental than that.
Is the goal of this game to make the developer happy, or the customers happy?
Christ.. Stop playing the victim card. The developers set the criteria for the game. If they feel sustain via cp is too generous then they change it. The top 1 percent (ridiculous hyperbole so i wont humor it), rather.... the solid, knowledgeable players are least effected by this change not because of any kind of crutch but because it is for the very reason that they adjust their approach within the games established boundries to remain competitive.
The competitive fighting game community often uses a phrase that i find entirely accurate in most genres and especially here. "being a scrub is a state of mind not a skill level". Strong players look inside and see what changes are needed to best take on the difficult challenges that the devs produce and refine.
The point is this, if you are dependant on cp for sustain on top of sustain glyphs and sustain sets then you are not likely a player that is pushing numbers that would be expected of you in a veteran trial which is where these changes are going to effect players the most i.e not you. And on the flip side, if the sustain cp changes result in you not being able to play effectively outside of truly difficult content then im sorry but that is absolutely a learn to play issue.
So get over it. Balancing from the top can be alienating for some but it establishes the strongest foundation. Developers are often faced with the dilemma of hitting that sweet spot of accessible and challenging. Your sensationalism in your previous posts suggest that it is heavily skewed in favor of the "top 1%" when in reality that is hardly the case and you should be looking at how you can improve as a player and meet them halfway.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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More surprised this was not noticed then they set up the cp system.
Did they not try to min / max cp600 characters during the design?
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »They're removing them because it makes people OP. Something that the original CP developer didn't care because she thought it was "aaaaweeesomeee!". But Rich/Wrobel disagree now.
I'm OP, you need a fire ballista and few mag dks to kill me but why didn't just Zenimax nerfed our accounts? WHY THE REST HAVE TO PAY IT.K1 The Big Monkey0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because ZoS has no idea how to balance their game so they figure let's nerf EVERYONE and that'll fix everything and now the sun will shoot rainbows out of it's ass.3 -
Entegre✭✭✭Why do everyone attach zos representatives in every thread? Can we just link them to absolutely important ones so they can maybe read them?0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, its whatever when they do this. But it will just serve to make the hard nearly unbeatable content for some like VMA VMOL and the like that much harder. They said they wanted to raise the floor and lower the cieling, but with this they are gonna raise the floor right past the cieling....
The big groups will be FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE. My group will adapt so this just screws with low CP less experienced players/raiders/pvpers more than anything really.1 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭They are removed so non elite players might not complete any trial, That way end game PvE stays away from all but elitists, making general population "WeStillHaveSomethingToAchieve". Elitists remain elitists, so they are happy, too. And Zos don't have to do anything, since "HurrDurrUHaventEvenCompletedvAAvDSAvHRvMOLvMASoWeDidntBotherMakingMoreEndgameContentHaveAConCrateInstead"
Also, "organised","skillful" zergs are also happy, since now it takes 2x more ppl to kill them than before, making lag even greater.
Oh a real answer finally, I tho I was gonna read another genius with this mentality "resource management is so easy in a group of 12 with magicka steal, buffs, elemental drain and synergies that's why they nerf it".
I'm so tired of those.
Can't wait for June to hit so I can charge people 1M for vMsa run and guildies charge 10M for vMol run
.
Because I will do it Zenimax, you are forcing players that are not that good into that, you deserve it.
Totally agree with you.
I'll charge them more too on my second account.0
