This game bores me with minimax DPS players and set up.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Target dummy? If you cannot pull 15k-20k DPS, i don't want to participate in vet dungeons HM. Well, technically you can, but you shouldn't, because that will not be fun for you and your groupmates.

This kind of rubbish again.
Maybe it's not fun to you but it's fun to most of us.
Dungeons, vet, normal, hm or not, even the greatest of them, are boring after the 100th run. Maybe already after the 10th run. Running them with an optimized, experienced group makes them even more boring.
Having people in the group who are new to them, learning, pulling under-average DPS, making mistakes which we have to cover for or find new solutions is what brings fun and diversity.
Please people, don't be shy to join groups and guilds, no matter your level.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

Look, that's the very definition of selfishness. Have you ever wondered what other people who are unlucky enough to be assigned to your group want? Have you ever wondered if they think it's "fun" to spend 2 hours and their entire playing season in a freaking dungeons because some dude decides to spam bow light attack all the way? No? "Most of us", hmm, so that means you, you, and the other you?

See my signature, the things i care about the most are immersion and lore. I fully embrace the "play what you want" of TES mentality. I couldn't care less about meta, or optimized, I theorycraft builds myself, none of my builds are meta, I have a heavy armour magsorc, a Dunmer Hybrid DK who utilizes both Flurry and Blockade of Fire at the same time, a Nord Nightblade tank, a Sorc healer, but the reason I sign up for vet Dungeons HM is because I know for the fact that despite all the weird and non-optimized builds I have, I can pull at least 15k-20k DPS as a DD, i can keep everyone alive and help their resources as a healer, I can debuff things while holding aggro of the boss and a considerable number of mobs as a tank.

Play the way you want, but do your job. Want to be an archer? There are bow only builds that can pull 15k-20k DPS, use them, don't spam light attack. Want to be a hybrid, use both mag and stam abilites? Craft Pelinals, then go for it, as long as you can pull 15k-20k DPS. Want to tank in light armour and cast wards? Do it, but slot piece armour and taunt things as well.

If you are not sharp enough to put up those builds, then don't PUG vet Dungeons. Do normal, it's fine. Find someone who enjoy 2 hours in a vet dungeons as you do. You and other people with the same selfish mentality are sabotaging the enjoyment of others. Stop doing it, please.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Target dummy? If you cannot pull 15k-20k DPS, i don't want to participate in vet dungeons HM. Well, technically you can, but you shouldn't, because that will not be fun for you and your groupmates.

This kind of rubbish again.
Maybe it's not fun to you but it's fun to most of us.
Dungeons, vet, normal, hm or not, even the greatest of them, are boring after the 100th run. Maybe already after the 10th run. Running them with an optimized, experienced group makes them even more boring.
Having people in the group who are new to them, learning, pulling under-average DPS, making mistakes which we have to cover for or find new solutions is what brings fun and diversity.
Please people, don't be shy to join groups and guilds, no matter your level.

I agree with this, which is why I don't mind pugging for non DLC vet dungeons. You don't need an optimal group to complete these dungeons and have fun. A wipe or two on a harder dungeon boss doesn't mean the group, or someone in it, is a failure. You get up, dust yourself down and kick the bosses behind, learning from the experience.

I don't PUG DLC vet dungeons because they tend to be the places where you find experienced players who call anyone who does not meet their criteria 'noobs' or 'scrubs'.

Yes, wipe a few times doesn't mean it's a failure. Everyone dies to mechanics now and then, even the best players.

This has nothing to do with being optimal or not. You can run all the weird builds all you like, (I have 0 meta build, most of my builds are weird) but do your job. That's the keyword, do your job, whatever weird build you are running.

Play the way you want, but do your job. Want to be an archer? There are bow only builds that can pull 15k-20k DPS, use them, don't spam light attack. Want to be a hybrid, use both mag and stam abilites? Craft Pelinals, then go for it, as long as you can pull 15k-20k DPS. Want to tank in light armour and cast wards? Do it, but slot piece armour and taunt things as well.

Don't be the guy who spams bow light attack in a vet Dungeons and flame the healer while pulling a pathetic 8k DPS, or the "tank" who has no taunt, wears infernal guardian and spams wards, which makes the mobs go all bat**** crazy and attack everyone.

Asardes · March 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

... Don't queue as tank if you use infernal guardian, double staves then stack shields, because mobs will go batsh** crazy and attack everyone. Slot taunt and taunt things.

Play the way you want, but do your job.

As tank my magicka sorc uses 5 Amber Plasm on front bar (sword and shield) / 4 on back bar (resto) together with 5 Willow's Path and 2 Infernal Guardian. I can basically perma-shield due to 2.1K magicka recovery (with Thief mundus, max health & magicka food and 0 CP in recovery) and 1.35K stamina recovery - I shield trough most attacks and only have to block the heavy ones that do serious damage and CC, so the stamina pool is almost always full. The procs from Infernal do serious damage in trash packs and on ranged adds. Overall he pulls around 10-13K single target and up to 30K AoE while tanking, from liquid lightning, boundless storm and Infernal Guardian procs. Having constant DoTs and high crit chance gives me constant heals from power surge; before the patch procs were crits as well so they added to that. Now I'm looking at Iceheart for even more shields instead but don't have the heavy head yet. I've tanked every HM dungeon with him except VRoM with that setup, and that was mostly because I couldn't find an experienced enough group then. But I use both pierce armor and heroic slash from 1H+S line, weave light and heavy attacks with my sword and have all the passives from that skill line. Even on a full magicka build that is way cheaper than inner rage. But I won't ever bring that kind of "non-meta" tank in any trial, even as off-tank. I only moonlight as such for the daily pledges, because people seem to be perpetually short of tanks and healers. He's the only char that can fill all 3 roles, and I'm also working on his healer build. Most likely I would use 2 Sentinel of Rkugamz to compensate for the lack of stamina support from class skills, 5 Sanctuary/Combat Physician/Gossamer or any other decent healer set. So even for veteran dungeons you are not really that constrained by the "meta" and you can "play as you like" as long as you do your job.

Asardes · March 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

I don't PUG DLC vet dungeons because they tend to be the places where you find experienced players who call anyone who does not meet their criteria 'noobs' or 'scrubs'.

I fully agree to that because my play time is limited and I don't want to waste it by repeating the same fight a few times because one or more players fail the same mechanic and stall the fight or even reset it by wiping. I have no qualms about pointing out bad play and I'm totally merciless with players that have reached CP400+ and still failed to sort out their build, gear, skill rotation or are simply too dumb to understand even simple mechanics or at least read what I explain on the group chat and follow that. If people have wasted so much time grinding CP but learned nothing in the process they are clearly morons.

I had a hilarious experience a few weeks ago after I tried to PuG VWGT with payers from Grahtwood zone chat. Two of them had CP600+ and another had about CP570. But they were so bad they whole only pulled about 27K DPS on the adjudicator together - I pull 4-5K on my DK tank by stacking DoTs, taunting, weaving heavy attack and heroic slash so the DDs were 12K DPS at most - and always wiped at more than 70% health on the boss. I have completed that dungeon before, without any issues with people as low as CP250 and even carried someone who had CP120 trough vet HM once. So new players that actually had the common sense to make an effective build and learn from others.

DMuehlhausen · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It's either use this and only this for ur set up. Makes the game boring in variations. I say if u know what u are doing with ur build and u know ur skill rotation. But then again we look at minimax builds cause they pull of 1k DPS or more than the players who does it differently.

Sounds like you are just tired of MMOs or even RPG / character building games in general. This is in every game where you have different skill choices. Always has been always will be.

Izaki · March 2017

Orbital wrote: »

Hey guys let's all use non meta builds and get bullied in pvp/pve

I'm gonna use 2H and Ice Staff on a magicka sorc with all my points into health, with my rotation being:

Crystal blast (yes the "other" morph) x10 > Wrecking Blow x2 > Pulsar > Blockade of Ice > repeat.

I'm only wearing Bogdan's and Fasalla's no jewelry cause no need, 2 pc Gold, 3 Purple the rest is all Green.

LiquidPony · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Sharing a non minimax build will be a joke to meta players. And I don't see any builds now a days or on YouTube. Try to search for the non meta youtubers. But rarely got those rare gem builds now a days. Even with players say magic is better than stam. (But they still say stam is still good but not really this patch cause the substain magicka has.)

Couldn't disagree more. In particular, check out Nosferatuzod and FeaRTurbo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/mephalas-venom-stamina-dk-otb-one-tamriel-pve-eso/

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/elloas-serenity-by-fear-turbo-ranged-stamina-dragonknight-vma/

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/fear-turbo-poison-knight-stamina-dk-otb-one-tamriel-pve-eso/

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/fear-turbo-flame-knight-stamina-dk-otb-one-tamriel-pve-eso/

Asardes · March 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Orbital wrote: »

Hey guys let's all use non meta builds and get bullied in pvp/pve

I'm gonna use 2H and Ice Staff on a magicka sorc with all my points into health, with my rotation being:

Crystal blast (yes the "other" morph) x10 > Wrecking Blow x2 > Pulsar > Blockade of Ice > repeat.

I'm only wearing Bogdan's and Fasalla's no jewelry cause no need, 2 pc Gold, 3 Purple the rest is all Green.

Someone had the bright idea to open up the group for a random player for VCOS. We got a CP250 confused sorc who used boundless storm and was casting curse in between bow skills. Totally not funny in the end

idk · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

I greatly dislike min/max folks as well..

They advocate for builds that really are not necessary to finishing content. many variations and even unorthodox builds are quite viable.. Its just that in their eyes, these builds are too slow and thus should not be allowed or will be kicked.

Though the minmax lot is loud in many places, their lot really is quite small in general..

PS: Copying a build from internet never makes you a good player, you also need to know about mechanics and stuff like that..

More importantly, geytting good DPS value never makes you good player, it just means you can execute the commands in order someone told you to do.. While other players pull less DPS on dummy or in a fight, it might just be that there are more in their arsenal than simple damage build, versatility is always good but it cuts a bit off from DPS. Minmax onkly counts if you can mitigrate enough damage, not if you can also contribute in other ways while tanking or can CC tank for example without straining healer so much as traditional standing tank. Minmax healer plans for best healing numbers, perphaps damage absorption, versatile healer does damage and heals at the same time. Versatile DPS can also self heal or absorb damage if needed.. Perphaps have heals on offbar to aid if situation is about to get out of main heal, minmax DPS only does damage.

Skill trumps everything. Without skill it doesn't matter if the player is wearing BiS and using the best rotation.

At that, it's theorycrafters that work to determine BiS builds for reaching optimal dps but by no means does any reasonable guild require any of those builds for raiding. A reasonable guild will merely require a minimum dps for raiding with them. It's up to the player to determine how they will achieve if.

Further, min/max is only useful in group content whether PvE or PvP.

So no reason to hate min/maxers other than for the sake of it.

Izaki · March 2017

Asardes wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Orbital wrote: »

Hey guys let's all use non meta builds and get bullied in pvp/pve

I'm gonna use 2H and Ice Staff on a magicka sorc with all my points into health, with my rotation being:

Crystal blast (yes the "other" morph) x10 > Wrecking Blow x2 > Pulsar > Blockade of Ice > repeat.

I'm only wearing Bogdan's and Fasalla's no jewelry cause no need, 2 pc Gold, 3 Purple the rest is all Green.

Someone had the bright idea to open up the group for a random player for VCOS. We got a CP250 confused sorc who used boundless storm and was casting curse in between bow skills. Totally not funny in the end

OMG I thought I was making a joke but now that you tell me that there actually are confused people like that... I'm feeling bad now man

DHale · March 2017

There are min maxed builds in every game there are BIS... meta builds in every game. If you don't want to run them... don't. But they work... complain away. No matter what the Devs do there will be a meta build. That's the way it is... that's the way it should be. Anyone who thinks differently is going to get wrecked and there is nothing ZOS can do about it.

Magdalina · March 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Orbital wrote: »

Hey guys let's all use non meta builds and get bullied in pvp/pve

I'm gonna use 2H and Ice Staff on a magicka sorc with all my points into health, with my rotation being:

Crystal blast (yes the "other" morph) x10 > Wrecking Blow x2 > Pulsar > Blockade of Ice > repeat.

I'm only wearing Bogdan's and Fasalla's no jewelry cause no need, 2 pc Gold, 3 Purple the rest is all Green.

Someone had the bright idea to open up the group for a random player for VCOS. We got a CP250 confused sorc who used boundless storm and was casting curse in between bow skills. Totally not funny in the end

OMG I thought I was making a joke but now that you tell me that there actually are confused people like that... I'm feeling bad now man

A lot of low cp(and even some higher cp) people don't actually realize that skills actually scale with your corresponding max stat/damage since nowhere does the game tell you that and they just assume that using the best of two worlds is, well, best. Like if you have both magicka and stamina, why not use both?
It doesn't really work that well in group content but the game does an awful job at explaining you how/why. So yeah it's actually a lot more common than you'd think.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Asardes wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

... Don't queue as tank if you use infernal guardian, double staves then stack shields, because mobs will go batsh** crazy and attack everyone. Slot taunt and taunt things.

Play the way you want, but do your job.

As tank my magicka sorc uses 5 Amber Plasm on front bar (sword and shield) / 4 on back bar (resto) together with 5 Willow's Path and 2 Infernal Guardian. I can basically perma-shield due to 2.1K magicka recovery (with Thief mundus, max health & magicka food and 0 CP in recovery) and 1.35K stamina recovery - I shield trough most attacks and only have to block the heavy ones that do serious damage and CC, so the stamina pool is almost always full. The procs from Infernal do serious damage in trash packs and on ranged adds. Overall he pulls around 10-13K single target and up to 30K AoE while tanking, from liquid lightning, boundless storm and Infernal Guardian procs. Having constant DoTs and high crit chance gives me constant heals from power surge; before the patch procs were crits as well so they added to that. Now I'm looking at Iceheart for even more shields instead but don't have the heavy head yet. I've tanked every HM dungeon with him except VRoM with that setup, and that was mostly because I couldn't find an experienced enough group then. But I use both pierce armor and heroic slash from 1H+S line, weave light and heavy attacks with my sword and have all the passives from that skill line. Even on a full magicka build that is way cheaper than inner rage. But I won't ever bring that kind of "non-meta" tank in any trial, even as off-tank. I only moonlight as such for the daily pledges, because people seem to be perpetually short of tanks and healers. He's the only char that can fill all 3 roles, and I'm also working on his healer build. Most likely I would use 2 Sentinel of Rkugamz to compensate for the lack of stamina support from class skills, 5 Sanctuary/Combat Physician/Gossamer or any other decent healer set. So even for veteran dungeons you are not really that constrained by the "meta" and you can "play as you like" as long as you do your job.

TL, DR: You do taunt, so it's totally legit.

Isellskooma · March 2017

CASUALS RUINED ESO

Asardes · March 2017

Isellskooma wrote: »

CASUALS RUINED ESO

You can have casual players who play well, and players who play a lot and still play badly. I've seen people at CP cap playing horribly (10-12K DPS as DD, die from a boss passing wind as tank) and I've seen Stormproof with CP180. Playing a lot but not putting any intellectual effort in that play (ex. blasting bears in Auridon, zombies in Alik'r or undead in Skyreach) does not bring any long term success.

sneakymitchell · March 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It's either use this and only this for ur set up. Makes the game boring in variations. I say if u know what u are doing with ur build and u know ur skill rotation. But then again we look at minimax builds cause they pull of 1k DPS or more than the players who does it differently.

Sounds like you are just tired of MMOs or even RPG / character building games in general. This is in every game where you have different skill choices. Always has been always will be.

No not really. Just bored where u try to improve ur character it will always be the same weapons and gear that everyone else wears. Burning spell weave, ophidian set, and so on.

Waffennacht · March 2017

Imo there is far more room for creativity in PvP. As many people have pointed out, "do your job." Because of this, if I'm in a group, I put my fun builds away and be my main. I hate the idea of being the reason something isn't successful.

And quite frankly I am very proud when I can carry less experienced or lower levels, I also hope they got something done they hadn't before because I was there to help. Maybe they finally get that helm they've been dreaming of.