This game bores me with minimax DPS players and set up.

sneakymitchell · March 2017

It's either use this and only this for ur set up. Makes the game boring in variations. I say if u know what u are doing with ur build and u know ur skill rotation. But then again we look at minimax builds cause they pull of 1k DPS or more than the players who does it differently.

OutLaw_Nynx · March 2017

Okay. Door is that way.

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

You said it yourself. Min-maxing gives you the most DPS. If you want to compete for leader boards, you need the most DPS. Simple concept.

If you don't like it, then don't participate.

GilGalad · March 2017

Atm good weaving and rotation makes a bigger difference than gear. As long as there is more than one possible build there will be an optimal build, even if it is just slightly better than the others.
So what is your point?

TalonKnight · March 2017

I agree with u, thats pretty much why I still play the way I want to, and if it bores u just play the way u want to as well.

KochDerDamonen · March 2017

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Is the complaint that people direct others to optimized min/max builds when they ask for help? If you want there to be guides for not-quite-optimized builds, try making them yourself and share them.

You've got me totally lost, what's the precise thing you dislike?

Curragraigue · March 2017

K, and then?

IcyDeadPeople · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It's either use this and only this for ur set up. Makes the game boring in variations. I say if u know what u are doing with ur build and u know ur skill rotation. But then again we look at minimax builds cause they pull of 1k DPS or more than the players who does it differently.

I don't have experience with the dungeons and trials, but aren't those kind of min/max builds really only needed for trials or speed run leaderboards etc?

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

I'm so confused. You play how you want but are complaining that competative raiders also play how they want?

If you dont want to be a part of that then how is it any of your business to interfere?

Albino_Dunmer · March 2017

There are a range of set ups that provide more than reasonable dps for any content. Now if you are shooting for leaderboards? Obviously you are using BiS gear even if it's a 0.5k difference in DPS in equal conditions.

Royaji · March 2017

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Well, because once you get 4 "play the way you want" people in vet dungeon things become ugly. I do think the issue is that the OP wants "minmax" players to carry him through everything while he is spamming bow light attacks and wrecking blow. This stuff is ok for normals but once you go for vet some level of perfomance is required.

And I am not speaking about full gold flavor of the month setup but something that is suitable for your role. Tank has to keep taunt and debuff the boss, healer has to keep people alive, manage resources and provide support and dds have to do damage. I'm not asking for 40k+ single target either but 15-20k is a pretty solid minimum.

Lexxypwns · March 2017

If you're not going for leaderboard scores you just need high enough DPS to get clears and not need to be carried by the other DPS for whatever content you desire to run.

For normal dungeons and trials there's near limitless amounts of viable builds.

For vet dungeons that number dwindles some, but you can still make all sorts of not min-max builds work in many situations

Vet trials have higher dps and mechanical knowledge requirements but can still be passed and not require a hard carry without min-max builds. Its often good to make sure you're running with people you know if you're gonna do vet trials without min-maxing.

sneakymitchell · March 2017

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Is the complaint that people direct others to optimized min/max builds when they ask for help? If you want there to be guides for not-quite-optimized builds, try making them yourself and share them.

You've got me totally lost, what's the precise thing you dislike?

Sharing a non minimax build will be a joke to meta players. And I don't see any builds now a days or on YouTube. Try to search for the non meta youtubers. But rarely got those rare gem builds now a days. Even with players say magic is better than stam. (But they still say stam is still good but not really this patch cause the substain magicka has.)

KochDerDamonen · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Is the complaint that people direct others to optimized min/max builds when they ask for help? If you want there to be guides for not-quite-optimized builds, try making them yourself and share them.

You've got me totally lost, what's the precise thing you dislike?

Sharing a non minimax build will be a joke to meta players. And I don't see any builds now a days or on YouTube. Try to search for the non meta youtubers. But rarely got those rare gem builds now a days. Even with players say magic is better than stam. (But they still say stam is still good but not really this patch cause the substain magicka has.)

Well, I mean, anecdotally I see plenty of people that have a disdain for any given meta, so surely those people would enjoy build guides that aren't meta but rather interesting or themed in some fashion? I did say to try making some yourself, if you think no one's doing it. Or encourage a friend with videomaking skills, or whatever you want.

Yes, magick has lots of utility and strong AoE and defensive capabilites all from ranged. Stamina is very good in PvP in general thanks to higher singletarget burst damage and bigger stamina pool for roll dodge and block. Neither statement is incorrect, stamina builds are highly prevelant in a variety of places in PvP but hugely underrepresented in favor of magick builds in PvE.

Vahrokh · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It's either use this and only this for ur set up. Makes the game boring in variations. I say if u know what u are doing with ur build and u know ur skill rotation. But then again we look at minimax builds cause they pull of 1k DPS or more than the players who does it differently.

I am playing online games since the 90's, when they were text based and you paid long distance phone calls because all we had was an analog modem.

Even then, there were min maxers. Every MMO and RPG have an handful of top builds since decades and since decades you have people enforcing them.

If you don't like this, you should stop playing this kind of game and switch to FIFA or some other "buildless" game. Where you'll still get a team A > team B...

Welcome to Competition, our life.

Sibenice · March 2017

So don't do vet dungeons and vet trials?

If you don't care about min/maxing there's zero point in doing those over normal versions where you can really just run whatever you want.

Bobby_V_Rockit · March 2017

Fair enough, some people just like it, I dont fully understand what min/maxing is though, so who knows. I just know I run all gold gear on a 5:5:2 split and enjoy playing that way. But I'm yet to see a build precisely like mine on a streamers website

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Happily the vast majority of the game is not balanced around min/maxing.

Pretty much everything up until Vet dungeons can be done reasonably efficiently with a snowflake build. That includes the questing/exploration, dolmens, delves, public dungeons, and even Normal dungeons to a degree.

The higher difficulty stuff was put there for people that enjoy min/maxing.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It's either use this and only this for ur set up. Makes the game boring in variations. I say if u know what u are doing with ur build and u know ur skill rotation. But then again we look at minimax builds cause they pull of 1k DPS or more than the players who does it differently.

Don't use them, you only have to use them if you want to compete for the leaderboard. Other than that, as long as you deal 20k DPS, you are good for vet dungeons HM. If you can deal 25k-30k DPS, you are good for vet trials.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Royaji wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Well, because once you get 4 "play the way you want" people in vet dungeon things become ugly. I do think the issue is that the OP wants "minmax" players to carry him through everything while he is spamming bow light attacks and wrecking blow. This stuff is ok for normals but once you go for vet some level of perfomance is required.

And I am not speaking about full gold flavor of the month setup but something that is suitable for your role. Tank has to keep taunt and debuff the boss, healer has to keep people alive, manage resources and provide support and dds have to do damage. I'm not asking for 40k+ single target either but 15-20k is a pretty solid minimum.

Plenty of non-meta builds can pull 20k+ DPS. So, I think you can still "play the way you want", as long as you do your job.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Is the complaint that people direct others to optimized min/max builds when they ask for help? If you want there to be guides for not-quite-optimized builds, try making them yourself and share them.

You've got me totally lost, what's the precise thing you dislike?

Sharing a non minimax build will be a joke to meta players. And I don't see any builds now a days or on YouTube. Try to search for the non meta youtubers. But rarely got those rare gem builds now a days. Even with players say magic is better than stam. (But they still say stam is still good but not really this patch cause the substain magicka has.)

Got you covered fam.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6JQhQFfmPFnfA7Zfd3_70A

technohic · March 2017

The majority of the game does not require any min max. Outside of vet trials; everything else is whatever works for you. You'll get a few complaints in group finder; but find a decent guild and you can do just fine if you really know what you're doing

You don't even need 20 k DPS for pledges other than a couple of the hardest DLC ones.

laksikus · March 2017

Just take any build from 1.6
Will do The Job and is non meta

Bobby_V_Rockit · March 2017

Any stam DPS build not running TFS, VO and vMA weapons is non-meta

DragonBound · March 2017

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Is the complaint that people direct others to optimized min/max builds when they ask for help? If you want there to be guides for not-quite-optimized builds, try making them yourself and share them.

You've got me totally lost, what's the precise thing you dislike?

The issue is when your running into facts about how certain skills out perform others in signifitcant ways and people will tell you if your dps is lacking, you eventually find out acceptable weapon dps, crit and so on anyways, the problem is not that, the issue is the meta and how other skills are clearly out performing in the first place.

acw37162 · March 2017

People who tell me how bored they are bore me.

Baconfat79 · March 2017

I don't understand that hatred for min/maxing. Why would you not want to perform as well as possible? If you want to play some off-meta hybrid sword & board magicka DPS or whatever then go for it, but it makes everything tedious. I don't think that taking forever to kill anything is fun, and if you play some wacky ineffectual build in group content, you are doing a disservice to your teammates. For solo play, sure...get your jollies with the whole "play how you want" thing, but nobody wants someone in their dungeon or trial run who underperforms because they refuse to do things in the most efficient manner.

IronCrystal · March 2017

I say, play how you want, but fulfill the role required of you for the content you are doing.

If the content requires you to pull 20k dps, you better pull 20k dps, meta or not. Just because you have meta doesn't even mean you know how to do that.

If the content requires you to pull 30k dps, you better pull 30k dps.

No one notices what you are doing until you are clearly underperforming.

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Then... don't copy the builds? Don't play with people that demand that of you? I'm not sure what you want. There's soooo many people that complain about this, and all I can wonder is: why don't y'all get together and form a guild? Like, seriously.

Is the complaint that people direct others to optimized min/max builds when they ask for help? If you want there to be guides for not-quite-optimized builds, try making them yourself and share them.

You've got me totally lost, what's the precise thing you dislike?

Sharing a non minimax build will be a joke to meta players. And I don't see any builds now a days or on YouTube. Try to search for the non meta youtubers. But rarely got those rare gem builds now a days. Even with players say magic is better than stam. (But they still say stam is still good but not really this patch cause the substain magicka has.)

I wonder why there aren't any non-meta guides? Could it be that people seek guides to learn how to get better at a game, not worse? Why would anyone need a guide to teach them how to play a game inefficiently?

Shad0wfire99 · March 2017

The meta is the meta because it's more effective than the alternatives. Simple as that.

Rjizzle09 · March 2017

I still to this day say all of this comes from people thinking skyrim works in this game. Alot of roleplayers or off meta players try to turn this mmo into a single player roleplay experience which i mean yeah you can do that BUT this isnt a single player play how you want game. Its an MMO. You dont have to play with meta builds just make your own BUT at the same time dont whine and complain about not gettin completes on things. Also meta builds are definitely not 1k dps ahead of others theyre SEVERAL k above the rest. My mag dk on a dummy parse pulls 40k consistently(can link a video if u want) and compared to someone that pulls only 25 to 30k thats a huge gap over an 8 minute fight like hardmode rhajkat.You can for sure play the way you want but if u put 12 of you guys in a trial there will be some serious rage quitting because you cant have a tank think its a dps/heal tank that uses a bow and a resto.