Can we get a GM to just surf dolmens for the AFK botters?

Sedrethi · March 2017

Guildmates of mine have been telling me that they've reported several bots days and/or weeks ago and still see the exact same ones (@IDs and character names) at the Dolmens or roaming Shadowfen doing their usual routines.

ManwithBeard9 · March 2017

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

Er, it takes more than a couple of days to level a new character to 160 even botting in a NEW account, your suggested explanation is pretty unlikely.

Except botters are doing more than gaining XP. There's plenty killing mudcrabs for clean pelts, leather scraps and gold.

yvesfouquet4 · March 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

Dear Gina, me and several well know traders we have reported over 1000x the same bot accounts, after 1 year they are still in the game. They almost have more champion points then me (and i play since beta

)

Apart from that, people who never bot nor sell gold, get banned faster then the 500 bots in the game that aint even hiding it that they are botting. So this standard template answer or formula by reporting those bots through the "following steps", also sounds like a joke. If we adress support directly, it takes 2 - 3 weeks and 20 standard template answers (that on top of that they completely ignore the core essence of the problem) before we get an actual answer from someone that cares a tiny bit about your problem. In the end it always results in "policy this, policy that and you aint being helped".

The actual problem, the bots, is not being fixed.

ZENIMAX / SUPPORT team , does not do a single thing about the CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM. You prefer to ban players, that play the game , that PAY the game, that ENJOY the game. You do NOT BAN THE BOTS.

As long as this happens, i call this a JOKE :-)

Have a nice day

Turelus · March 2017

As Gina has posted twice in this thread I'm holding out hope that ZOS are still reading it, so I will once again try one more time to make my case I have over the years. I also will leave my witty comments out of this post as I want it to be taken seriously.

Now granted I am very entitled in my view. As I have stated many times on the forums I come from EVE Online which is run by CCP Games. They're a very small company compared to other MMO companies and are their own bosses (no parent company) so they probably have a lot more freedom than ZOS does, but they've been ahead of the others with game security and enforcement for years.

1. We Don't Understand Your Security.
As a company you're very tight lipped about how you handle security for the game, whilst some of this make sense in not feeding bots/cheaters information, there is a lot we could know which wouldn't harm defence efforts.

Does ZOS have an in house or outsourced GM team?
Do you have a head of security, if so can they speak to us on the forums?
What are you bans policies, is there a strike system, what are your actual rules?

Regarding you head of security, I can for example speak with CCP's head simply as going on Twitter, https://twitter.com/ccp_peligro
Communication is a huge part in changing opinions on this, please start considering releasing figures of accounts banned, gold confiscated, etc. it makes a world of difference to see.

2. Your System Isn't Working.
I know that's something you don't want to hear, or may believe you know better (and you might) but right now the percecption from the community is that things don't work.

It's too much effort to report a bot, there needs to be a streamlined feature added which handles server, location, ID's, times etc. so we don't have to manually fill that out. Click Button, Submit Report. It should be that simple.
Reports never get handled. They just seem to vanish after they're filed, someone within the company needs to look at why a bot report is not being addressed within a week. We shouldn't be seeing the same bots weeks even months later.
Consider a direct email for your GM team such as security@elderscrollsonline.com
Consider not outsourcing this, seriously outsourced GM staff are not as effective as an in house team which have direct access to the developers and community.

3. Crack Down on RMT.
It's not just botting which is an issue. Gold buying and selling is happening a lot and we're not seeing punishments, you need to have an active team working to prevent this, as once again other MMO's tend to do.
I understand it's not possible to stop every transaction, but right now it feels like nothing is being done.

Please see some of the links below, and I really hope someone from ZOS can invest some time into reading/watching some of this and taking a case to whatever powers make these choices.

EVE Fanfest Security Presentations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDSNd_w86Hw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG13u9KKtzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vd-CpnjvAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZR9w3ftjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE

EVE Online Known Exploits Page: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits

EVE Online Security Dev Blogs:

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-eve-security-taskforce-report-a-bot/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/this-is-team-security/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/begun-the-bot-war-has/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/new-security-features-with-eve-online-ascension/

It isn't just EVE Online and CCP Games either:
Here we can see Blizzard with a statement about a ban wave as well as an email address for reports: LINK
Guild Wars 2 Security Dev talks about bots: LINK
SWTOR has posts from Devs but mostly the same as ESO "report it to our CS team".

To the Community.
It also lands on us to stop this, with continued reports (though frustrating) in game and on the forums.
By encouraging and calling out RMT, these bots have no job if we as a community stand up and voice why players taking part in RMT is bad.

Kodrac · March 2017

Yeah running down the bot train and hoping they stand still long enough for me to get the F key to pop and roll over to report player is a pain in the ass to say the least.

jcaceresw · March 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

Hello Gina. Maybe you guys should implement IP banning like Blizzard do. They ban an account and if that person creates a new account from the same IP its banned automatically. For better security, when creating a new account you should ask for personal information like name and social number or anything that can be used to verify the user identity.

SantieClaws · March 2017

Khajiit thinks there should be a general way - one button perhaps yes with another to confirm - to report bots in the general area.

Someone with the relevant oversight yes then can take a look at the area, identify the likely culprits and take action.

Perhaps even transport the relevant players to an island holding area while you take a closer look at each one? Khajiit would have no issue with being in such a place herself for a few minutes if she knew it was done in the name of identifying and eliminating bots.

Having to select and report each one individually clearly is not practical and is not working.

There needs to be active, and not just retrospective, enforcement. Prevention is of course always preferable though yes.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Turelus · March 2017

jcaceresw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

Hello Gina. Maybe you guys should implement IP banning like Blizzard do. They ban an account and if that person creates a new account from the same IP its banned automatically. For better security, when creating a new account you should ask for personal information like name and social number or anything that can be used to verify the user identity.

Proxies and stolen personal information.
From the security presentations I have been to developers have spoken about how most of these accounts are run with stolen information any way. Sometimes from their own customers, so if you buy gold consider that.

Elsonso · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

The community does this often, we do what is ask but we don't see results and these not new accounts which have come back, some people have seen (and taken screenshots) of bots which have been around for one or more weeks at a time.

We do see the results. We see new bots.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report.

In this, we can see that the idea of simply reporting bots, or even showing up at dolmens and smiting them, is like building a sandcastle when the tide is rising. It works, but the success is short-lived and it is, ultimately, doomed to fail as soon as vigilance is dropped.

No matter how easy it is to report bots, and this can get pretty easy on PC, thanks to add-ons, reporting them does not really solve the problem.

Turelus wrote: »

Waiting to develop changes to the game code to solve the problem isn't acceptable in a AAA MMO, not when CCP Games with its small sub base and Icelandic office is kicking your butt at this.

This is pretty much the only thing that will end up being acceptable, to be honest. These game code changes will take time. Even the (good) suggestion about totaling up XP and waiting to grant it until the chest is opened will take time. It is a good idea, but it is not simple, and it is fraught with interesting nuances. I am sure they have ways to block IP ranges, but be aware that this can also block legitimate players (and likely has). They can change the mechanics about how staff attacks work, but that has other problems, and, while it will get rid of the casual "rubberbanders", it can be countered. They can even change it so that the inactivity timer does not consider light and heavy attacks, but that is also easily countered.

In the end, prevention and discouraging can work by changing the game mechanics, which will get rid of a lot of wannabees, but detection is also critical because these things can be bypassed.

In the mean time, it certainly looks to me like the bots are simply being replaced by new ones. Progress, since it burns up accounts, but I have no idea how many of the 8.5 million accounts are available to these people.

Turelus wrote: »

1. We Don't Understand Your Security.
As a company you're very tight lipped about how you handle security for the game, whilst some of this make sense in not feeding bots/cheaters information, there is a lot we could know which wouldn't harm defence efforts.
Does ZOS have an in house or outsourced GM team?

Do you have a head of security, if so can they speak to us on the forums?

What are you bans policies, is there a strike system, what are your actual rules?

Communication is a huge part in changing opinions on this, please start considering releasing figures of accounts banned, gold confiscated, etc. it makes a world of difference to see.

I am not really so concerned about understanding the Security, as much as I am that they report that they have it, and keep pushing it in our face when it becomes a probelm. Other games have a very public way of tooting their horn about this, and that does a lot to actually set the perception that they are tough on Security. In the end, I believe that this also sets the stage so that fewer people violate the ToS.

ZOS needs to toot their horn a lot more about this. Yes, they should be releasing information, and telling what happens to the people that do it (in aggregate).

Violynne wrote: »

But despite this, I'm not sure why people are seeing this as a problem. Yes, a few dolems are problematic because they're close to starter cities, but most other dolems are unaffected.

Again, it is against the ToS to do it. It is as simple as that. The people who play the game honestly do not get the wonderful benefits from properly using a rubberband, unless they play the game dishonestly. It is dishonest because it is against the ToS. If ZOS removes this from the ToS, then everyone can do it. Until then, why should the honest players tolerate the dishonest players doing what they cannot?

Verbalinkontinenz · March 2017

You remember the videos i sent u months ago, Gina? ZOS never reacted on that mail, nobody clicked that videos. It was just one of many perfect examples. Accounts were still on for weeks. You made me sit down for hours, to get the names together, screenshots, making videos of them farming, uploading it on youtube. And thats what i got from it: the people still there, but a good friend banned for buying scraps or wax from them back then, who himself also reported that accounts weeks and months before that. You think I ever report a bot again? No, fu, no.

You just keep banning and warning normal players for trading, but you refuse to work together with people digging deeper into this ***, you ignore people offering their help to get rid of that problems - as if you were able to get rid of it. But no you arent and ZOS doesnt react fast enough nor does ZOS have the manpower or is willing to invest into getting rid of that problem. If you were able, the situation would be better.

As long as you keep that problem going, you can ban tons of players for buying from that accounts too, because thats whats happening, every day. You also ban and warn people which have been reporting like *** in the past but gave up on this, because its of no use.

Severall guilds feeding on botted material, several players buying, reselling, for months. And when you ban one person, another will do it, or two or three - it doesnt matter. There always will be people buying stuff from them. When trading guilds try to get rid of suspicious accounts, the real goldsellers just change their habits so its harder for us to recognize them.

ZOS is doing ***, leaving the problems to us players trying to get a solution or a way of handling it. But no, we cant handle it alone, and no seemingly you also cannot handle it alone.
____

If I report someone i spot botting or at least I think he is, and he is still on 2 weeks later, I am *** allowed to buy from that guy, because ZOS said, that acocunt is okay. Because thats what I expect. I report someone, ZOS gets that report and checks that account within an acceptable amount of time. But you ban people for trading with those accounts, while ZOS has been made aware of those accounts and decided they are okay.

Thats what it is, @ZOS_GinaBruno, ZOS is doing ***.

And your Support is a *** joke.

Quigster · March 2017

Just another vote here to be a little more aggressive in weeding out bots and other forms of in-game cheating. Personally, I have reported multiple players, only to find the same character and account name, standing at the same Dolmen days or weeks later, doing the exact same cast. Truthfully, I have stopped reporting them. I understand the logic another poster stated about how players should not be responsible for policing the game. However, I don't mind reporting the occasional (key word occasional) player. But when it become multiple players, and no action is observed, then I stop reporting and just move on.

This may not be a politically correct way for me to address the issue, but I say to myself, "If ZOS wanted to fix this, it would be fixed already". Since it is not fixed I then conclude it's either ignorance or apathy, more likely apathy. ZOS, please prove to me it is not apathy. If you need help, I would be willing to assist. I am retired and on the game nearly every day. I would be happy to take an hour or two out of my day, jump on an alternate account, and help you address these on-going problems.

Verbalinkontinenz · March 2017

Quigster wrote: »

Just another vote here to be a little more aggressive in weeding out bots and other forms of in-game cheating. Personally, I have reported multiple players, only to find the same character and account name, standing at the same Dolmen days or weeks later, doing the exact same cast. Truthfully, I have stopped reporting them. I understand the logic another poster stated about how players should not be responsible for policing the game. However, I don't mind reporting the occasional (key word occasional) player. But when it become multiple players, and no action is observed, then I stop reporting and just move on.

This may not be a politically correct way for me to address the issue, but I say to myself, "If ZOS wanted to fix this, it would be fixed already". Since it is not fixed I then conclude it's either ignorance or apathy, more likely apathy. ZOS, please prove to me it is not apathy. If you need help, I would be willing to assist. I am retired and on the game nearly every day. I would be happy to take an hour or two out of my day, jump on an alternate account, and help you address these on-going problems.

its just nature.

zos is expecting people to play fair, while also competing for top sales/wins and other top scores - but how to, if there is no fairness in game and when zos doesn't help to secure a balance, so the hardest worker in game also "wins" as he deserves. wether its ap-farm, wether its beeing a topseller, wether its beeing topselling trading guild, wether its mundus exploit. doesnt matter. it just repeats again and again.

i stopped blaming people for that, because zos often doesnt fix the basic problems, and if - way too late, even though they always are/were made aware of that. you just look right and left of you, and see what some other people do, and feel like *** because u cant reach them and sooner or later one after another falls for it and will do it same way.

same time, people start ignoring the problem, because zos doesnt react. all we get, is a messed up game.

i happily invite you to buy from bots, i invite u to farm ap and dump ap-items, dump wax and alloy until that markets are dead.

zaria · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

Hello Gina. Maybe you guys should implement IP banning like Blizzard do. They ban an account and if that person creates a new account from the same IP its banned automatically. For better security, when creating a new account you should ask for personal information like name and social number or anything that can be used to verify the user identity.

Proxies and stolen personal information.
From the security presentations I have been to developers have spoken about how most of these accounts are run with stolen information any way. Sometimes from their own customers, so if you buy gold consider that.

Its two types of bots, the ones who do heavy attack on dolmens are players who level then AfK.
if you see groups of identical players with random names running in thigh groups farming its gold seller bots.
That was an major problem after launch.

ynimma · March 2017

Unfortunately ESO is also a product of the games industry where I have to stress the "industry"-part further.
It means ZOS has only one measure: profit. As long as sales goes on as they expect it to do there's no incentive to alter the course.

This means the devs will be ordered to put their paid efforts into creating more contents what can be sold let it be crown crates, a new hair or Morrowind. Spending paid time on cleaning up broken things foes not pay off in terms of development unless (and here's the catch) it's hurting the whole profit machine.

Here's my prediction, it may not be accurate but still.
No matter *** we paying customers try to bring this game up to a standard of quality, the company policies are serving the profit first and foremost so as long as payments for the different new additions or crowns are flowing in on a pre-defined quota-basis which justifies the effort put into the game on ZOS's side, we'll need to work around these issues.

What can a forum mod say seeing these topics? Nothing really other than these general and mostly air-light answers. Do Gina or others feel for us, players? We dont't know that snd even if they do it just makes it harder for them to do this "dirty job" here when everyone knows it's non-satisfactory on both sides.

Company policies, folks, company policies. Bots will not be treated effectively no matter how we try to point it out. As other problems will also stay untouched. I beg for a world where playing and games are not part of any industry...

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · March 2017

Khajiit also wished to confirm the annoyance of 'rubber banders.'

This one hates seeing dopey walkers stood on rocks firing into an empty dolmen.

What kind of example will that send to new walkers in Tamriel.

What this humble khajiit would suggest is to look at active players and possibly screen them to be prospective GM's. This means you would have very active GM's working to resolve the issues and you could be kept updated on recurring problems.

This one would be more than happy to be a GM for xBox EU. #hirehumblekhajiit

NewBlacksmurf · March 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno

People are asking for more efficient ways to police .....essentially look at the many different threads and consider PC, Steam, Xbox and PS.

There needs to be an in-game bot report selection that auto grabs screens shots (where hardware allows) that while reporting we can see the screenshot so that we can report more accurately because as is....it's impossible to report someone without taking many minutes and often using more than our gaming device.

This report needs to feed to Xbox or PS in addition to ZOS support as it's definitely the case where ppl are creating more or using different accounts so the current process is doing nothing but creating huge logs of information that cannot be addressed and that's more apparent with each persons in-game interactions.

Another simple step should be to auto kick players who are heavy or light attacking and not moving for over 5 minutes and this should be consistent on all platforms. Build in a flag that if auto kicked 3 times in one day and if kicked 5 times over a period of 30 days for this,.....you flag that account and this is where a GM can be more effective to better observe and take action.

Verbalinkontinenz · March 2017

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

Elsonso · March 2017

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

No, it still fills in the player name when you use F to report the player. At least, it does for me. It does not upload a screen capture, and that is likely because screen captures were not useful or were included when they did not need to be.

NewBlacksmurf · March 2017

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

lordrichter wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

No, it still fills in the player name when you use F to report the player. At least, it does for me. It does not upload a screen capture, and that is likely because screen captures were not useful or were included when they did not need to be.

@Verbalinkontinenz and @lordrichter
It's different for PC to consoles is where I'm going with all this due to UI differences and gamer tag vs ZOS account stuff by platform.

Verbalinkontinenz · March 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

No, it still fills in the player name when you use F to report the player. At least, it does for me. It does not upload a screen capture, and that is likely because screen captures were not useful or were included when they did not need to be.

true. maybe fixed. when i ran around trying to grab botters a while ago, it didnt work. but doesnt help still, sine the report player function on help.account has been removed. usually when i report something bigger, i make screenshots, as example of goldselling transactions in mm/att or listings in guilds. cant send them anymore. i dont like just messaging "hey this guy is a goldseller" or "hey i think that guy is botting", when i can show stuff like this, and make clear what i am about - which also should help the support to figure out, which can bee solved faster, since there are already hints how to spot&scout stuff:

Turelus · March 2017

PC fills out one name (don't remember account/character)

ADarklore · March 2017

Considering this activity seems to be taking place at popular Dolmens, why is it difficult for ZOS to have a roaming GM traveling around to the Dolmens and doing their job instead of making players do the job for ZOS?!? It seems to me players should be able to PLAY the game while GM's should be the ones working for ZOS... the players are paying to play, not paying to police the game from way too obvious botters that any GM should be able to handle on their own.

I like the idea of dolmen XP ONLY being rewarded upon collection of the chest... and the chest resets upon next dolmen activation if not collected before the next activation.

wolfdoggie_ESO · March 2017

Reporting all the afk bots is a lot of effort per person. It'd end up being a part time job for a lotta players.

parkham · March 2017

Here's the deal. You're never going to stop bots. If there's a buck to be made, then some very smart people will figure out a way to make bots work in any game.

Someone mentioned EVE Online. Perfect example. Null-sec: bots are everywhere and they haven't been stopped ever. The null-sec desert is perfect for botting. High-sec: Distro mission bots racking up huge amounts of corp standings and ISK - ore and ice mining bots, day in and day out. Join an NPC corp and never worry about getting wardecced.

I've seen it all first hand.

By and large, the software is too smart to catch.

Here, it's LaLaLand (from my limited time here). The bots are stupid by comparison. Most of them aren't even real bots.

Just a few suggestions to make things a teeny bit more difficult:

- Make attacks a one button, one action event. That is to say, holding down the button only does one thing, once.

- Move some of the dolmens. Seriously, move some of them. Make navigating to a dolmen more difficult and dangerous.

- Randomize dolmen spawn timers. I don't know what they are now, if they are five minutes, make it a random spawn between five and 8 minutes for example.

- Have players face in random directions when arriving at their destination via "Travel to Player", Fast Travel via gold payment or Wayshrine.

Keep reporting suspected bot activity. I used to get wound up about it, but really, can't fix it, don't worry about it is how we should all live.

Report, move on to having fun.

Styxiii · March 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Your reporting is a joke. Not just for bots but for everytying, only thing that ever gets changed with reporting are making someone change their name. Theres people who whisper things that shouldn't be said, it goes way beyond trash talking to, you show you don't care. For example in PvP, when a hate tell gets way beyond just a trash talk, it gets reported and it solves nothing, yeah you can ignore them but that person is still running around ruining others experience, reporting is an empty threat and always has been, it makes people laugh. Show some respect to your consumers and make some order in this mess youve chosen to ignore

Elsonso · March 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

lordrichter wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

No, it still fills in the player name when you use F to report the player. At least, it does for me. It does not upload a screen capture, and that is likely because screen captures were not useful or were included when they did not need to be.

@Verbalinkontinenz and @lordrichter
It's different for PC to consoles is where I'm going with all this due to UI differences and gamer tag vs ZOS account stuff by platform.

I think there is more confusion between ZOS and Microsoft and Sony about who does what, and what party should have the controlling interest and the entertainment of banning people. On the console, the players are customers of Sony or Microsoft, first, Bethesda/ZOS second. Thus, complexity, red tape, delays, and what not.

Turelus · March 2017

Styxiii wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Your reporting is a joke. Not just for bots but for everytying, only thing that ever gets changed with reporting are making someone change their name. Theres people who whisper things that shouldn't be said, it goes way beyond trash talking to, you show you don't care. For example in PvP, when a hate tell gets way beyond just a trash talk, it gets reported and it solves nothing, yeah you can ignore them but that person is still running around ruining others experience, reporting is an empty threat and always has been, it makes people laugh. Show some respect to your consumers and make some order in this mess youve chosen to ignore

That's sad to hear if it's really that bad.
Past games I've played people have been temp banned for a lot of casual smack that used the wrong words (homosexual slurs were a big one).

I think the biggest issue is that like all big games ZOS just outsources customer support and GM work because it's cheaper. Sadly it means a worse customer experience.

Elsonso · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Styxiii wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Your reporting is a joke. Not just for bots but for everytying, only thing that ever gets changed with reporting are making someone change their name. Theres people who whisper things that shouldn't be said, it goes way beyond trash talking to, you show you don't care. For example in PvP, when a hate tell gets way beyond just a trash talk, it gets reported and it solves nothing, yeah you can ignore them but that person is still running around ruining others experience, reporting is an empty threat and always has been, it makes people laugh. Show some respect to your consumers and make some order in this mess youve chosen to ignore

That's sad to hear if it's really that bad.
Past games I've played people have been temp banned for a lot of casual smack that used the wrong words (homosexual slurs were a big one).

I think the biggest issue is that like all big games ZOS just outsources customer support and GM work because it's cheaper. Sadly it means a worse customer experience.

Pretty sure it is not that bad, as a general rule. At least on PC/Mac.

SirAndy · March 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh really?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323648/bot-train-pc-na-shadowfen/p1

Over a month later, and they are still there, running the exact same route.
And that's a month after i saw and reported them, who knows how long they have actually been there.

Turelus · March 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Styxiii wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Your reporting is a joke. Not just for bots but for everytying, only thing that ever gets changed with reporting are making someone change their name. Theres people who whisper things that shouldn't be said, it goes way beyond trash talking to, you show you don't care. For example in PvP, when a hate tell gets way beyond just a trash talk, it gets reported and it solves nothing, yeah you can ignore them but that person is still running around ruining others experience, reporting is an empty threat and always has been, it makes people laugh. Show some respect to your consumers and make some order in this mess youve chosen to ignore

That's sad to hear if it's really that bad.
Past games I've played people have been temp banned for a lot of casual smack that used the wrong words (homosexual slurs were a big one).

I think the biggest issue is that like all big games ZOS just outsources customer support and GM work because it's cheaper. Sadly it means a worse customer experience.

Pretty sure it is not that bad, as a general rule. At least on PC/Mac.

From my experience it seems to be what support staff it falls on. I've seen a friend banned for calling someone scum for stealing grind spots, but others talking about pure racial hatred in zone and there for months after.