Can we get a GM to just surf dolmens for the AFK botters?

cyclonus11

Ragnork wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players

I have done so, followed the instructions given and then got a reply telling me to add them to my ignore list.
I did that too, sadly however I can still see them around the dolmen. Oh well.

In all seriousness thank you for posting the link.

What the ... how does putting them on ignore solve anything??

Turelus

Also I'll write this now.

I fully expect this to be fixed, then everyone will cheer and go back to complaining about Templar nerfs, then a year from now we'll be back here as nothing serious changed.

Elsonso

Turelus wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Styxiii wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Your reporting is a joke. Not just for bots but for everytying, only thing that ever gets changed with reporting are making someone change their name. Theres people who whisper things that shouldn't be said, it goes way beyond trash talking to, you show you don't care. For example in PvP, when a hate tell gets way beyond just a trash talk, it gets reported and it solves nothing, yeah you can ignore them but that person is still running around ruining others experience, reporting is an empty threat and always has been, it makes people laugh. Show some respect to your consumers and make some order in this mess youve chosen to ignore

That's sad to hear if it's really that bad.
Past games I've played people have been temp banned for a lot of casual smack that used the wrong words (homosexual slurs were a big one).

I think the biggest issue is that like all big games ZOS just outsources customer support and GM work because it's cheaper. Sadly it means a worse customer experience.

Pretty sure it is not that bad, as a general rule. At least on PC/Mac.

From my experience it seems to be what support staff it falls on. I've seen a friend banned for calling someone scum for stealing grind spots, but others talking about pure racial hatred in zone and there for months after.

One thing about anecdotal reports, and ZOS can clear this up by actually telling us what they do for punishments (in aggregate), is that people forget that there are levels of punishment, and they accumulate. So, when I hear this, I ask myself what other things the "friend" did, and whether he was really banned, or just suspended. I ask the same things about the "race hate" and add to that whether this is something that we know happened, from first hand knowledge, or just someone saying "@player was saying _____".

SirAndy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh really?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323648/bot-train-pc-na-shadowfen/p1

Over a month later, and they are still there, running the exact same route.
And that's a month after i saw and reported them, who knows how long they have actually been there.

Edit: Yeah, they are still there. Exact same players. I was there a couple days ago and did not see them. I suppose I could have been in the wrong "instance" of Shadowfen, at the time. It was at an odd hour, when the game is not really busy, but there could have been several Shadowfens up and running.

@ZOS_GinaBruno : If these players are NOT botting, and are not using botting software, I would really like to know. I'll stop reporting people with similar behavior and quit wasting the time of the ToS people.

Turelus

@lordrichter can't quote as on phone.

Friend had no previous marks on the account, received a weeks ban.

The race hate I was there, they were a member of my alliance at the time (and kicked), they spent a few days mouthing off in zone chat about a "race" and promoting hate crime and genocide.

They were still around months after every day it not doing the same.

Sadly I don't have evidence, but I would hope my reputation speaks for itself.

stomps

This should be one of the top priorities for ZOS to fix. Cheating ruins so many aspects of the game including my motivation to keep playing. It also creates an "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude for many others.

Turelus

stomps wrote: »

This should be one of the top priorities for ZOS to fix. Cheating ruins so many aspects of the game including my motivation to keep playing. It also creates an "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude for many others.

A majority of the games player base don't notice nor care. It's also not negatively effecting sales or in the media, so why apply effort.

That's cynical and I feel sorry for the ZOS staff but that's exactly how I feel about it after two years.

We've had so many threads about bots/RMT/exploiting, we get a band aid fix, we all scream in joy and then we're back here again.

This isn't something you apply a patch now and then to fix, you need active teams working t counter it.
If players fear their accounts when caught into buying, sales get harder, if RMT gold is removed, sales get harder, keep pushing them until it's unprofitable.

I have a friend who sadly conducts RMT. He doesn't play ESO but has worked to power level, farm gold etc in other titles.
I've asked him what the ESO market is for the site he works for an they have little fear there of anything catching them.

EVE online however they scared to death because whatever they try CCP Games find them. Because they have a team with access to the severs and logs, and they don't wimp out on taking actions.

Verbalinkontinenz

A majority of the games player base don't notice nor care. It's also not negatively effecting sales or in the media, so why apply effort.

lol? then lets do it.

Turelus

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

A majority of the games player base don't notice nor care. It's also not negatively effecting sales or in the media, so why apply effort.

lol? then lets do it.

Do what?

If you mean to try and get the media to publish a negative or critical article about the ESO bot problem then you'll fail.
No site which carries weight wants to run a negative story of a Zenimax Media game for fear of losing exclusive information.

As for cutting money ourselves, we can try but this issue isn't with closing a sub over (I'm part of the issue by having this view).

The player base won't care, they don't understand why it's bad and many in fact thinking RMT is awesome.

Verbalinkontinenz

As for cutting money ourselves, we can try but this issue isn't with closing a sub over (I'm part of the issue by having this view).

thats what i was aiming at, but as cynical as u.

the main problem:

either zos does RLY something about - that means having staff actively viewing reports, having at least one or two GMs checking reported situations - directly. and it would take only one or two of those, doing it daily 8h each platform. i am sure.

or zos doesnt make this problem to our problems extra. then they also have to drop the bans for people, which have been buying scraps/wax or ore/alloy from those accounts.

because acting against players, who never were goldsellers or did anything like that, just using the ingame situation zos created by doing a ***, is just phony and ugly. especially, when they act against that players, but the goldseller/botter still is in game with account and zos staff even admits of knowing that goldseller.

Violynne

lordrichter wrote: »

Until then, why should the honest players tolerate the dishonest players doing what they cannot?

It's true the act is a violation of the ToS, but it still doesn't matter.

Let me ask you something: is it fair to those "honest" players there are people out there who create new characters, then use their high level guild/friends to run dungeons to rank to 50 in mere hours? For those new to the game, they probably wouldn't see this as "honest".

The reality is this: there will always be people out there who will go out of their way to gain exp to level up characters, or find ways to circumvent the "grind" of games. This is an age-old problem, and part of the reason comes down to the stupidity of using an age-old mechanic called "leveling".

There's an actual psychological factor to this, and developers know it. By "pushing" the carrot, so-to-speak, it ingrains into many gamers to "get to the best", constantly chasing the carrot.

Regardless, my issue isn't about the "botters", but about people who see them as impacting their game. I just don't see it. I couldn't care less if those people are standing and shooting at a dolem, because they cannot and do not affect my game in any way.

I'm sure the "lag" criticism will come up, but head on over to Hew's Bane or Cyrodiil and let's discuss what lag truly means. The event at a dolem is a limited one, which means once a player gets past it, there's no reason to revisit it, thus making both the "botter" and the complaint moot.

This forum is filled with hundreds of threads asking "How do I farm faster?" or "Get more gold?" or "Level up quickly?".

By asking these question, they are part of the same problem as the "botters": trying to bypass the grind to reap the reward.

To me, these people are no different the "botters", but I doubt this opinion will be agreed with.

Just realize I am in the extremely low percentile where I couldn't give a rat's arse about reaching max level/gear/dps as quickly as possible.

I just enjoy the game, and couldn't care less what people do to "enjoy" theirs.

Does this answer the question? Sorry for the long post. I get carried away at times.

SirAndy

Violynne wrote: »

Does this answer the question?

Just one more question: What dolmen is your character currently parked at?

Elsonso

Violynne wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Until then, why should the honest players tolerate the dishonest players doing what they cannot?

It's true the act is a violation of the ToS, but it still doesn't matter.

Yeah, it is, and, yeah, it does. This is pretty much were I exit this conversation. I answered your question.

NewBlacksmurf

lordrichter wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

lordrichter wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

No, it still fills in the player name when you use F to report the player. At least, it does for me. It does not upload a screen capture, and that is likely because screen captures were not useful or were included when they did not need to be.

@Verbalinkontinenz and @lordrichter
It's different for PC to consoles is where I'm going with all this due to UI differences and gamer tag vs ZOS account stuff by platform.

I think there is more confusion between ZOS and Microsoft and Sony about who does what, and what party should have the controlling interest and the entertainment of banning people. On the console, the players are customers of Sony or Microsoft, first, Bethesda/ZOS second. Thus, complexity, red tape, delays, and what not.

@lordrichter

I can't speak for ZOS or Sony but Microsoft isn't confused.

They are taking action and have suspended and locked down a few accounts however, ZOS seems to allow the creation of a new ZOS profile so then they just link the gamer tag back and because ppl share digital access...it continues under a new gamer tag / ZOS profile

raidentenshu_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

Why don't you ban their IPs? Or better yet banning cheaters and botters by hardware ID?

It seems like the current method you guys are using to remove the bots aren't working out too well since the server is litter up with bots non stop, especially around Dolmens.

sticx45_ESO

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Why don't you ban their IPs? Or better yet banning cheaters and botters by hardware ID?

This right here.

gard

Turelus

IP bans don't work as a end all argument.

Proxies and VPN's are a thing now.

MasterSpatula

This thread may be the first time I've ever actually found myself mad at Gina. Her responses in this thread showed a spectacular side-stepping of the point. I'm sure it's a ZOS party line she's having to toe, but the party line here is not okay.

GMs must be online and active at all times the game is up. That is the bare minimum standard. Bare. Minimum. Standard. If you cannot keep GMs in your game taking care of botters and exploiters and all the toxic garbage @Winter mentioned in his/her excellent post, then you have no business operating an MMO.

There's no wiggle room here. If you run an MMO, you have live GMs. All the time. Period. The service we are paying for cannot be provided without human oversight. If you don't have GMs on at all times, you are not providing the service you're selling.

purple-magicb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is there a way to report bots with a video link to support? The proposed method of right clicking just isn't practical when dealing with large groups of bots in constant motion. I have video that I don't want to link here as it shows names.

starkerealm

Turelus wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

A majority of the games player base don't notice nor care. It's also not negatively effecting sales or in the media, so why apply effort.

lol? then lets do it.

Do what?

If you mean to try and get the media to publish a negative or critical article about the ESO bot problem then you'll fail.
No site which carries weight wants to run a negative story of a Zenimax Media game for fear of losing exclusive information.

http://kotaku.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-has-a-botting-problem-1792727078

Just, sayin.

EDIT: Linked the wrong article. There's a lot of stuff from back in 2014 talking about the bot issues at launch, though.

OutLaw_Nynx

This is going to get 173627272x worse with the jester festival coming up...

Elsonso

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

lordrichter wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

Hey @NewBlacksmurf

I remember a time where u could grab a screenshot when u reported someone, as example when he was flaming in chat. Easypeasy. I also remember a time, when the Help-Section in browser had a report-player function also with the possibility to add screenshots. And now it comes: I also remember a time, when i followed someone and clicked "report" on that person ingame, the Help-Window ingame opened automatically and filled in the Username.

Now, all that has been removed. What tells you that?
ZOS doesnt want us...to report people...maybe? No reports means no need for support. At least ZOS has been consiquently making it harder for us to report people - also to report stuff with screenshot and concrete informations by screenshots as example.

No, it still fills in the player name when you use F to report the player. At least, it does for me. It does not upload a screen capture, and that is likely because screen captures were not useful or were included when they did not need to be.

@Verbalinkontinenz and @lordrichter
It's different for PC to consoles is where I'm going with all this due to UI differences and gamer tag vs ZOS account stuff by platform.

I think there is more confusion between ZOS and Microsoft and Sony about who does what, and what party should have the controlling interest and the entertainment of banning people. On the console, the players are customers of Sony or Microsoft, first, Bethesda/ZOS second. Thus, complexity, red tape, delays, and what not.

@lordrichter

I can't speak for ZOS or Sony but Microsoft isn't confused.

They are taking action and have suspended and locked down a few accounts however, ZOS seems to allow the creation of a new ZOS profile so then they just link the gamer tag back and because ppl share digital access...it continues under a new gamer tag / ZOS profile

Well, personally, I wouldn't go out of my way to report on PS4. Waste of time. They are thick on there and getting rid of them is the job of ZOS, not me. I figure they can't, because Sony will have a cow, banning paying customers, and all.

Turelus

starkerealm wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Verbalinkontinenz wrote: »

A majority of the games player base don't notice nor care. It's also not negatively effecting sales or in the media, so why apply effort.

lol? then lets do it.

Do what?

If you mean to try and get the media to publish a negative or critical article about the ESO bot problem then you'll fail.
No site which carries weight wants to run a negative story of a Zenimax Media game for fear of losing exclusive information.

http://kotaku.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-has-a-botting-problem-1792727078

Just, sayin.

EDIT: Linked the wrong article. There's a lot of stuff from back in 2014 talking about the bot issues at launch, though.

Kotaku isn't a serious games site. Not the kind who want exclusives from companies.

I mean no offence to the site as I read their stuff, but it's not exactly hard to get something on there.

Argruna

Easiest solution to dealing with bots? A DOT.

Moment dolmen starts, everyone in the vicinity gets a dot. To get rid of it, you either have to leave the dolmen area or stand in a sanctified area by the dolmen. That area moves, as in, it'll appear for a few seconds, blinks out then appears in a different part close to the dolmen. Call it Meridia's Light or something tacky. Call the dot Molag Bal's Bane or something tacky. It's unhealable and stacking. Hit the stack number without dissipating it in the light? You dead. You cannot be ressed by others, you cannot res yourself and only solution is wayshrine.

sticx45_ESO

Argruna wrote: »

Easiest solution to dealing with bots? A DOT.

Moment dolmen starts, everyone in the vicinity gets a dot. To get rid of it, you either have to leave the dolmen area or stand in a sanctified area by the dolmen. That area moves, as in, it'll appear for a few seconds, blinks out then appears in a different part close to the dolmen. Call it Meridia's Light or something tacky. Call the dot Molag Bal's Bane or something tacky. It's unhealable and stacking. Hit the stack number without dissipating it in the light? You dead. You cannot be ressed by others, you cannot res yourself and only solution is wayshrine.

I like this! Also adds an element of skill to the mindless dolmens as they are now. The only issue I see is dolmens with a LOT of people at them are finished in like 1 min or less, so that dot would have to tick up really fast for this to work at popular Dolmen. So there is an issue...

Frondale

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

What a joke....sorry but it is...I reported the macro botters at Illuvmar Auridon dolmen recently and guess what...they are still there.

I recently saw 6 botters going in a circular route at Rivernspire and did not report them and they have been there for 2 weeks I know of. I never reported them because you Zos seem to do nothing about this behavior.

I don't know why you have no GM's in game because this behavior drags the game down allowing botters and macroers to keep happening. A clear message needs to be sent to these players that cheat.

Why waste my time reporting when nothing is ever done??

Feeling frustrated.

Elsonso

Frondale wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

What a joke....sorry but it is...I reported the macro botters at Illuvmar Auridon dolmen recently and guess what...they are still there.

I recently saw 6 botters going in a circular route at Rivernspire and did not report them and they have been there for 2 weeks I know of. I never reported them because you Zos seem to do nothing about this behavior.

I don't know why you have no GM's in game because this behavior drags the game down allowing botters and macroers to keep happening. A clear message needs to be sent to these players that cheat.

Why waste my time reporting when nothing is ever done??

Feeling frustrated.

Well, after seeing that the same botters are running the same loop in Shadowfen, for the last 11 days (at least), my feeling is that this is not against the TOS, so not going to report this sort of behavior anymore.

Edit: Oh, another thought. Someone at ZOS needs to run down into the basement and check on the ToS enforcement guy. Make sure he did not have a medical emergency, or quit for more pay donating bodily fluids for research. Then again, maybe he is just sick? Do ToS Enforcement people get benefits, or is it "you show up, you get paid" sort of arrangement?

Edit 2: Maybe just busy?

Eiagra

xari228 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

@ZOS_GinaBruno,

While I appreciate that you all have a system in place for us to be able to report this, the problem with that is it puts it on me/us to take time out of our gameplay time to gather the necessary information and go through the steps to report it to ZOS.

That's not my job.

My "job", in-game, is to fight Daedra and Dark Anchors and, generally, have fun.

ZOS, OTOH, has GameMasters on staff (and/or could hire interns) who could look into this.

As huge as the world is, it still shouldn't be on me/us to police the game for you.

--xari.

I enjoy this game a lot, have for a long time, and have been saddened by the botting that I've seen in increasing instances and numbers. And I've just barely enough insight into the challenges of development to understand what's involved both from the player's side and the devteam's side.

That said, I have to agree with Xari. Between two jobs, a video production hobby, and day-to-day errand running, I have less than two hours, if that, that I get to enjoy playing ESO. MAYBE, if I'm lucky, I can more than a few times per week.

I do not believe it is fair to ask me to spend any amount of that time reporting botters. Yes, I do understand it's not really that much time, but since the ticket does not automatically include Name, Reason, Date/Time, or Megaserver which it easily could with a single button. This could be an intentional design flaw to prevent one-button report spam abuses, but you hinder those who want to help.

However, I do not believe there is much value in even the act of reporting the botters. That's not going to end this. Key word here: VALUE.

We do not need players reporting the bots. We do not even need GMs surfing the dolmens and catching the bots.

We need investigators determining WHY there are bots. Of what value is botting? Discover that value, trace it down, and I wager you'll find a more fruitful path to ending this problem. Perhaps someone has found a monetary value in this -- time is money, after all. And farming gold isn't the only way that particular industry thrives.

Just a random thought. Hope it helps makes Tamriel a better place for all legitimate players.

SteveCampsOut

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you guys run across what appear to be botters, please make sure to report these players through our official channels so we can address it quickly. You can find exact instructions here.

Is that a joke? People have done this several times, they're still there.

It's not a joke. It's very possible that these groups have previously been removed, but are returning with new accounts, so please submit an official report. This is the best and quickest way to get the information reviewed by our TOS team.

So I take it the answer to the OP"s question about GM's is a big fat no!

kyle.wilson

If you can, record the bots with video capture software like OBS.
While someone can try to explain away a picture, video proof of botting is game over.