BOT train, PC/NA Shadowfen

SirAndy

@ZOS_GinaBruno

There's a bot train with 5 players running a circular route in Shadowfen, around the Hissmir Wayshrine (PC/NA).
We need y'all to dust off that good old ban hammer!

I have screenshots with names if needed ...

Unsent.Soul

Good luck, people operating bots make more money in gold selling than the cost for new accounts.

New accounts means ZOS can throw around that 8.5 mil like it's credible.

New accounts for ESO means more money for ZOS...

See @SirAndy everyone wins, right?

Tannus15

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Good luck, people operating bots make more money in gold selling than the cost for new accounts.

New accounts means ZOS can throw around that 8.5 mil like it's credible.

New accounts for ESO means more money for ZOS...

See @SirAndy everyone wins, right?

If they were getting banned daily I'd be happy.

Unsent.Soul

Tannus15 wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Good luck, people operating bots make more money in gold selling than the cost for new accounts.

New accounts means ZOS can throw around that 8.5 mil like it's credible.

New accounts for ESO means more money for ZOS...

See @SirAndy everyone wins, right?

If they were getting banned daily I'd be happy.

We both know that won't or ever will happen.

mtwiggz

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Good luck, people operating bots make more money in gold selling than the cost for new accounts.

New accounts means ZOS can throw around that 8.5 mil like it's credible.

New accounts for ESO means more money for ZOS...

See @SirAndy everyone wins, right?

If they were getting banned daily I'd be happy.

We both know that won't or ever will happen.

Used to happen when ZoS actually had GMs in game.

SleepyTroll

Have been 12 running in bankori for 2 weeks 24/7 and nothing has been done. There is also some under the map collecting nodes in the thieves guild dlc area.

runagate

Lyserus

I think ZOS already surrendered to bots after last DOT attack…

Evergnar

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Have been 12 running in bankori for 2 weeks 24/7 and nothing has been done. There is also some under the map collecting nodes in the thieves guild dlc area.

I've notice the underground bots quite a bit. Brings back old memories but not good ones.

phaneub17_ESO

Banning usually happens in bulk waves, they aren't going to just ban them on an individual basis that's time consuming. They take down the names, choose a specific date then ban them all at once... for 6 months. Rarely is it ever a permanent ban unless they're exploiting game mechanics for personal gains.

Chirru

ZOS has come into big Money.
So our inconvenience means nothing to ZOS as long as the Credits come flowing in.
Get used to it for that is the game of life on this planet.

Sorry for the bad news.

Oh... if it is not bad, then it is not news.
What was I thinking???

MLGProPlayer

Evergnar wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Have been 12 running in bankori for 2 weeks 24/7 and nothing has been done. There is also some under the map collecting nodes in the thieves guild dlc area.

I've notice the underground bots quite a bit. Brings back old memories but not good ones.

Underground bots?

grumlins

Yet another reason console is superior. You never see those.

Unsent.Soul

grumlins wrote: »

Yet another reason console is superior. You never see those.

You're joking right? Must be nice to be naive...

Elsonso

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Good luck, people operating bots make more money in gold selling than the cost for new accounts.

New accounts means ZOS can throw around that 8.5 mil like it's credible.

New accounts for ESO means more money for ZOS...

See @SirAndy everyone wins, right?

So, the faster they ban them, the more revenue they get. Right?

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Have been 12 running in bankori for 2 weeks 24/7 and nothing has been done. There is also some under the map collecting nodes in the thieves guild dlc area.

Do you actually see the nameplate of the character under ground? If not, be aware that sometimes nodes are not there, but your client apparently missed the message. I have seen chests vanish as I approach them, and reappear when I back off.

Runs

lordrichter wrote: »

Do you actually see the nameplate of the character under ground? If not, be aware that sometimes nodes are not there, but your client apparently missed the message. I have seen chests vanish as I approach them, and reappear when I back off.

That seems to be due to being in a different phase as the chest. Once you enter it's phase and have already done the quest/not done the quest involved it will disappear. Some of those can actually still be grabbed if you get stuck on a rock for instance and don't walk closer to the chest when going to open it.

Lately I have been seeing some regular nodes that disappear mid pickup. I'm still not sure there is someone underground harvesting them. I have been wondering if all "channels" from one zone share nodes though... so they seem to disappear even though there is a player harvesting them that we can't see.

zaria

Chirru wrote: »

ZOS has come into big Money.
So our inconvenience means nothing to ZOS as long as the Credits come flowing in.
Get used to it for that is the game of life on this planet.

Sorry for the bad news.

Oh... if it is not bad, then it is not news.
What was I thinking???

Its two types of bots, one is the player run ones, you hardly see them outside of the rubberbanders at dolmens.
They are hesitating to perma ban them unless repeated or to gross.

The one you see in large groups with similar characters are usualy run by goldsellers who buy accounts on stolen credit cards. they cost ZoS money as they get no money just work.

zaria

Runs wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Do you actually see the nameplate of the character under ground? If not, be aware that sometimes nodes are not there, but your client apparently missed the message. I have seen chests vanish as I approach them, and reappear when I back off.

That seems to be due to being in a different phase as the chest. Once you enter it's phase and have already done the quest/not done the quest involved it will disappear. Some of those can actually still be grabbed if you get stuck on a rock for instance and don't walk closer to the chest when going to open it.

Lately I have been seeing some regular nodes that disappear mid pickup. I'm still not sure there is someone underground harvesting them. I have been wondering if all "channels" from one zone share nodes though... so they seem to disappear even though there is a player harvesting them that we can't see.

Don't think materials and chests should not be shared over channels, however this might well be bugged.
Underground bot sounds implausible also easy to trap with software. Invisible should be easier actually.

JKorr

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Evergnar wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Have been 12 running in bankori for 2 weeks 24/7 and nothing has been done. There is also some under the map collecting nodes in the thieves guild dlc area.

I've notice the underground bots quite a bit. Brings back old memories but not good ones.

Underground bots?

Yes, underground bots. Nodes would disappear with no other player in the area. Botters found a way to get under the map. It was incredibly annoying and frustrating. Unfortunately the underground bots aren't just in the Thieves' area. I've reported disappearing nodes elsewhere.

The long lines of bot trains that turned in a quest, got the gold, then suicided were equally bad in the early days. I reported long lines of characters with names like "sjdhfapohr", still dressed in coldharbor jammies, turning in a quest in Windhelm, then they moved away, and "died" to be replaced by another. People who were playing then will never be quick to complain about the "Delete" character timer.

SirAndy

zaria wrote: »

Its two types of bots, one is the player run ones, you hardly see them outside of the rubberbanders at dolmens.
They are hesitating to perma ban them unless repeated or to gross.

These aren't rubber banders. They are clearly scripted using 3rd party software.
All running the exact same route, turning at the exact same moment, attacking at the exact same instant.

And if you kill the mob they are running towards before they get there, they still stop and run their attack animation (because bots don't know that you already killed the mob).

SmalltalkJava

Hope they ban them. I've reported the bangkorai bots since Feb 15 thoough and they are still there

Cadbury

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

grumlins wrote: »

Yet another reason console is superior. You never see those.

You're joking right? Must be nice to be naive...

Pretty sure he's being sarcastic. Or he's never been to a dolmen or random example, inside Camlorn.

Elsonso

Runs wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Do you actually see the nameplate of the character under ground? If not, be aware that sometimes nodes are not there, but your client apparently missed the message. I have seen chests vanish as I approach them, and reappear when I back off.

That seems to be due to being in a different phase as the chest. Once you enter it's phase and have already done the quest/not done the quest involved it will disappear. Some of those can actually still be grabbed if you get stuck on a rock for instance and don't walk closer to the chest when going to open it.

Lately I have been seeing some regular nodes that disappear mid pickup. I'm still not sure there is someone underground harvesting them. I have been wondering if all "channels" from one zone share nodes though... so they seem to disappear even though there is a player harvesting them that we can't see.

As far as I know, channels do not share resources. Bleed through has always been a suspicion of mine, though. Bleed through would be a bug.

The disappearing/reappearing chests were not quest related and so not phase related. These were naturally occuring chests in the wild. Next time I passed by, it was gone. It reappeared after time, and I looted it. I have looted it since then, too. I think it was a display error due to miscommunication of some sort. Once I got close enough for the server to offer an interaction, there was no interaction because it was not there and the chest was not displayed. Out of that range, the client still thought it was there and displayed it.

I think that the disappearing node that you describe is the same error, but "fixed". My theory is that the game client knows about all of the resources, chests, etc, and gets status of them when it enters an area, and whenever the status changes. It thinks that it is there, but it has missed the memo that it is not. The client displays the node, and you can see it and walk up to it. When you get close enough to interact, the client is "corrected" by the server, who is in charge of the interaction, and the node vanishes. My theory on the "fix" is that the client did not always take the correction, so as I backed away, the node would reappear.

zaria wrote: »

Underground bot sounds implausible also easy to trap with software. Invisible should be easier actually.

I guess that certain cheat programs can do this, easily. Invisible is a problem since it is the server that would have to make the character invisible. Underground, the server can say the character is there, but LOS prevents it from being seen. The catch is that the underground character is still there, it can have a nameplate that can be seen, and can be targeted, if they get sloppy.

Don't be quick to assume that the server can detect underground characters. The server is responsible for all of the interactions between the characters, NPCs, and mobs in the area, and that includes LOS checks. Calculating LOS between all of those is a lot to do, and figuring out whether a character is above, or below, the ground, will take extra time. Given that sometimes NPCs and mobs are in rocks, or hidden somewhere, my guess is that they don't check this too closely.

JKorr wrote: »

Yes, underground bots. Nodes would disappear with no other player in the area. Botters found a way to get under the map. It was incredibly annoying and frustrating. Unfortunately the underground bots aren't just in the Thieves' area. I've reported disappearing nodes elsewhere.

The thing with blaming vanishing nodes on underground bots is that ZOS bugs can do the same thing. I have to think that ZOS bugs are much more common than underground characters. Unless I actually see the character, and they are in, or under, the ground, I tend to go with ZOS bug first.

I mean, how many times have you seen someone running on top of a mount, or sliding across the ground as if they were on a mount? They had to add black silhouettes to the characters because they were invisible until they could be rendered. I still have a problem with invisible spawning NPCs and Mobs that block my passage, but I cannot see them until they have fully rendered in my client. How about invisible characters in Cyrodiil, recently? The game can lie to you. ZOS bugs.

SirAndy wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Its two types of bots, one is the player run ones, you hardly see them outside of the rubberbanders at dolmens.
They are hesitating to perma ban them unless repeated or to gross.

These aren't rubber banders. They are clearly scripted using 3rd party software.
All running the exact same route, turning at the exact same moment, attacking at the exact same instant.

And if you kill the mob they are running towards before they get there, they still stop and run their attack animation (because bots don't know that you already killed the mob).

Low tech bots, too. The modern bots only attack when they draw aggro, so they will run up to the mob spawn, stop briefly (<1 sec, the bot equivalent of waving his arms to attract the mob's attention), then run on when nothing happens.

Stormshaper

This train, is/was it stopping only at dolmen stations?

SirAndy

Stormshaper wrote: »

This train, is/was it stopping only at dolmen stations?

No, just running a circular route to farm mobs.

I'll go and check tonight and see if they're still there and if so, how many levels they have gain since i posted this ...

WldKarde

I spent the day yesterday fishing in Shadowfen and I saw quite a bit of chatter in zone chat about the bots.

Never saw them myself though, guess bots don't like to fish


Will take a closer look tonight as I've still got 1 blue foul water fish that is mocking me

Gorilla

It's not as bad on console but it's still there. One thing I have noticed is the price of gold has doubled over the past few months. This is from observing the occasional ad in zone chat. Iirc it was US70 for a million some month back; now it's USD120 for 800k.

Inflation? Supply/demand? Curious...

baratron

SirAndy wrote: »

There's a bot train with 5 players running a circular route in Shadowfen, around the Hissmir Wayshrine (PC/NA).
We need y'all to dust off that good old ban hammer!

SirAndy wrote: »

I'll go and check tonight and see if they're still there and if so, how many levels they have gain since i posted this ...

Let's see... on 2nd March there were 2 x CP 95, 2 x CP 88, 1 x level 31 and 1 x level 29. What are they up to now?

runagate

I was just going to say I just saw them in their usual place, reported them with the extra info PC/NA and the time (which obviously is captured when you submit a ticket, regardless of the recent post that says to send that info).

Course, we all saw the pic of the mod on console who just watched the bots and did nothing, so they've proven yet again they don't care, regardless of what the public position is.

zaria

Gorilla wrote: »

It's not as bad on console but it's still there. One thing I have noticed is the price of gold has doubled over the past few months. This is from observing the occasional ad in zone chat. Iirc it was US70 for a million some month back; now it's USD120 for 800k.

Inflation? Supply/demand? Curious...

Google is so nice to give adds to gold sellers everywhere as I have googles eso stuff.
Guess its Influx of new/ returning players, housing increase trading a lot.

An interesting thing is that an campaign against bots will increase the gold price more, making it very interesting for ZoS as gold sellers compete with the crown store for expensive housing items.

Fudly_budly

runagate wrote: »

I was just going to say I just saw them in their usual place, reported them with the extra info PC/NA and the time (which obviously is captured when you submit a ticket, regardless of the recent post that says to send that info).

Course, we all saw the pic of the mod on console who just watched the bots and did nothing, so they've proven yet again they don't care, regardless of what the public position is.

^^
Yet ZOS staff say, "We play the game." Yeah, right. If they actually ever cared enough to see for themselves by taking a five minute dolmen tour in Auridon, Alik'r, etc. then these threads wouldn't be a thing. There are 20-30 bots operating at the Vulkhel Guard dolmen right now. The SE dolmen is Alik'r is horrendous. Hell, players are laughing at ZOS in zone chat. Hey, on the plus side, Fighter's Guild dailies for Draugr motif are brainless easy. Yay!