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Healers from Dungeon Finder sometimes underwhelming?

  • SolarCat02
    SolarCat02
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    Some "healers" just don't know how to even heal. Sometimes it is people who queue as healer for the faster queue time, other times it is people who think they are good because they have the BiS gear from some online build, but they don't know how to actually use what they have. (Which really applies to any role. You can say similar things about my DPS at the moment, but everyone starts somewhere.)

    I typically queue as healer, so I have not run into too many PUG healers, but I have seen enough to know it's a mixed bag. You can't really go into PUGs with too specific expectations, or you will only frustrate yourself. Even among good healers there are tons of variations.

    For example, my main is a Dragonknight healer, while my secondary is a Templar healer. Both have a full load out of Trials gear I can swap out at will, including Master Staves, and have completed all veteran Craglorn Trials. (Well, Templar hasn't done vHRC, but that is more because my usual group rarely runs it currently due to the lagouts and crashing on Xbox since Homestead).

    Templar is full support stereotypical Trials healer. She has very little DPS on her own. Also not a ton of skill points, so her build currently is pretty close to set in stone aside from a select few stereotypical Templar DPS abilities she can slot. She also needs some passives yet.
    Dragonknight is a Swiss Army Knife who typically queues with a healing front bar, DPS back bar, and ability to swap in and out of almost every role. (Still grinding for the last of the tanking gear.)

    Both are very good at healing. The group experience is entirely different though depending on which one I bring. Some people who have run with both have a distinct preference, others don't really care which I bring. Each fulfills a different set of expectations about healing, and someone expecting a role that one fulfills would be sorely disappointed if I ran the other instead.
    Why be normal when you can be better?

    Elissandra Ravenwing, Magicka Dragonknight Healer
    Lady Kalila, Stamina Templar DPS
    Stands-in-Danger, Nightblade Saptank
    Zalarah, Stamina Dragonknight DPS
  • AnnieBeGood
    AnnieBeGood
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    Everyone has to build up their skills. And to learn dungeons you got to go do them. So....... you pug and you get trainee healers. Trainee tanks and not so hot dd's.
    Once my healer or dd is fully trained up..... off they go to Cyrodiil never to do a dungeon again.
    How many monster helms do you need anyway?
    Gulrosa V160 Templar -healer and master crafter
    Annie Spaceshifter V160 magica NB - just a thieving assassin, now retired
    Katerina - 'Daedric Annie' - V160 Stamina DK - now bank alt, wardrobe mistress
    Anni Bee - Vet 160Templar - pvp magica templar - Daedric Lord Slayer
    Lily Malone - stam sorc - pve goddess
    Rey of Jakku Plain - Vet 160 - magica templar dd
    Savanna - magica warden, still learning to play
    and several babies...... learning to ride
    EU server, pc and All for the Pact
    Alith, the best guild in the EU
  • SnubbS
    SnubbS
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    I can't remember the last time I queued and got a healer that used Springs—it must have happened at some point, but it's got to have been months.
    Xbox NA: SnubbS
    GoW eSports player & part time ESO Pug Ball Zerger.
    GB
  • Trihugger
    Trihugger
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    I think the biggest problem is not so much the healers, but the extremely huge, hoooooooooooooooge, pool of terrible DPS that aren't worth supporting. Thanks to combat metrics I can see the group's DPS alongside my own and I consider it a FANTASTIC group when I'm 50% of the damage doing ~30k DPS. The reality is I'm usually in the high 60's to 70's and I leave if I'm 80's lol. With that said, the vast majority of players are casual and do whatever they please consequences be damned or are simply ignorant that there's a better way. To put it another way, if you were a healer and only ran dungeons with the PF, could you possibly learn how to properly play and spec playing with the other goobers using the PF? The answer is no, hell no.

    Hitting the idiots running stoooooooooooooopid every which way with combat prayer is a lost cause in and of itself and lol@orbs with the heavy attack spammers. The game would need significantly less freedom in build choice and options to combat how terrible the vast majority of the populace are. Personally that's a hit to freedom I'd take, but I'm likely very alone in that sentiment as many people play this game FOR that very freedom.
  • mewcatus
    mewcatus
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    A PUG is a dice roll. To put it simply, the perspective and expectations of what you get from a dice roll has to change. If you want to have a better experience, expect only the barest minimum. For me, that means expecting the worst outcome every time. Any else is a bonus.

    What that means is that in a PUG, you expect 3 other players to be basic AI NPCs performing the bare minimum of roles, as meat shields which can die, anything else they can do is just an extra sweetener. With this mentality in mind, every PUG can be fun, because you learn to rely on yourself.

    Placing further expectation just hurts and stresses you for no reason, and is often beyond your control. So what's the point ? After all, you cannot force others to conform to your world view.
    Edited by mewcatus on March 19, 2017 12:43AM
  • VodkaVixen1979
    VodkaVixen1979
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    My husband is an eletist (shhhh, I didn't just say that) and he nit picked my healing setup that I wouldn't dare step into a vet dungeon to heal without full preparation. I am a lowly CP509, but I have a magplar that wears gold mara with Kags. I run war horn, elemental drain, shards, plus some resto skills. I am good, but not great, so I don't pug because I feel like people like my husband would kick me. I did pug a vet dungeon today and had a no death run, so I can't suck as bad elitism makes me feel I am. Does this mean I should heal in more pug runs?
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Healer is the least important dungeon role (unless it's vet DLC dungeons). You can get by with anyone in the role.
  • BRogueNZ
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    I admit i am have a "healer" with 20 points in Blessed and no Spell Power Cure :3

    In my defence all vet dungeons aren't healing intensive, I heal just fine with ... ehhh ... julianos xD

    I do slot proper healing skills tho.


    50-50 Blessed and Elfborn in Julianos is extreme for most normals and plenty for most vet hardmodes.

    Healing in some is just hilarious and depressing all at the same time

    Edited by BRogueNZ on March 19, 2017 2:01AM
  • BRogueNZ
    BRogueNZ
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    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    I admit i am have a "healer" with 20 points in Blessed and no Spell Power Cure :3

    In my defence all vet dungeons aren't healing intensive, I heal just fine with ... ehhh ... julianos xD

    I do slot proper healing skills tho.


    50-50 Blessed and Elfborn in Julianos is extreme for most normals and plenty for most vet hardmodes.

    Healing in some dlc ones is just hilarious and depressing all at the same time


    I've also switched to Thief rather than mage and like it

    If I trusted TBS I would have both but I'm happy enough with that of Jul or Kag's and they are easy to craft.

    Edited by BRogueNZ on March 19, 2017 2:01AM
  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    KaiVox22 wrote: »
    I admit i am have a "healer" with 20 points in Blessed and no Spell Power Cure :3

    In my defence all vet dungeons aren't healing intensive, I heal just fine with ... ehhh ... julianos xD

    I do slot proper healing skills tho.


    The problem isn't usually the healing, it's more the lack of support (drain, orbs, combat prayer)

    Which is why I tend to avoid getting healers through group finder :p

    Of course drain, orbs and combat prayer are my healing skills.
    Edited by hmsdragonfly on March 19, 2017 3:23AM
    Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    My husband is an eletist (shhhh, I didn't just say that) and he nit picked my healing setup that I wouldn't dare step into a vet dungeon to heal without full preparation. I am a lowly CP509, but I have a magplar that wears gold mara with Kags. I run war horn, elemental drain, shards, plus some resto skills. I am good, but not great, so I don't pug because I feel like people like my husband would kick me. I did pug a vet dungeon today and had a no death run, so I can't suck as bad elitism makes me feel I am. Does this mean I should heal in more pug runs?
    Hey, you sound like a self critical person. That is one good aspect and as long as you are working to improve yourself people will respect you. But all that aside, of course you should heal more pugs! Your setup sounds right. Also don't feel bad or guilty if someone dies, often it is their own fault. It is a popular trend to curse at the healer or tank when someone dies. Just ignore it and continue to have fun with the game. The more you do it the more you will improve and find your playstyle.

  • JinMori
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    Pug healers are absolutely terrible. 9 out of 10 times i have to slot elemental drain as a dd because every pug healer seem to think that the healing role is only about healing.

    But not just healers, usually pug groups are just absolute trash.
    Edited by JinMori on March 19, 2017 10:17AM
  • Integral1900
    Integral1900
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    If someone as useless as me can hit 20 to 30 k dps there is no reason anyone else should struggle. I stick to normal and I've gotten used to my dps having to also be the tank and the healer, fortunately I have a good wardrobe add on :D
  • colig
    colig
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    More like 'all players from dungeon finder sometimes underwhelming'. Myself included!
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Isn't the sound of the forum that everyone else in PUGs is bad in general? Just curious ;)
  • modaretto
    modaretto
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    I would say on average the group tool is underwhealming on principle. Healers and tanks and dds so you cant really specifically limit it to healers. Whoever joins a dungeon queue and especially veteran dungeon should be responsible for pulling their own weight there not to waste everyone elses time. That includes basic things like knowing dungeon mechanics. Try WGT and see who has any idea about closing portals...I have seen tanks pulling bosses out of every possible aoe and running with them like chickens on a farm. I have seen dds with no skills slotted and purely light attacking their way through a dungeon. Warhorns are not even something to mention because that's another level of complicated. Long story short : sure play the game the way you want and how you most enjoy it but dont waste other peoples time and ruin their experience if you are not prepared for group content. It really doesnt take much preparation either. Google any simple guide before queuing for a dungeon. Takes 5 minutes and will surely improve the experience for the whole group.
    Watches-the-wind (Templar healer) / PC EU

    Dragon's Crest
  • Artanis
    Artanis
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    Again... today... just right now I just duo qued spindleclutch I for vet pledge with a tank from my guild.

    The other dps and heal cant do what they are supposed to, won't dodge roll out of last boss aoe... I beg them to dodge roll from cc -> aoe combo, still won't dodge roll, keeps saying they did double tap on movement key and dodge roll didnt go off, blames ZOS, healer gets embarrassed and logs off, and I had to heal instead to complete it with 3 ppl...

    They were both 300+ CP and it was Spindleclutch I for love of god.

    Priceless.
    Edited by Artanis on March 19, 2017 11:48AM
    PC NA Megaserver
    Cyrodiil Campaign Trueflame
    <DC> Ar'tanis - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer
  • dantuffley_ESO
    dantuffley_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    Anyone have a link to a truly good healing guide for a templar? I am new enough to the game I simply do not know the right things to be doing, so I avoid even trying anything unless it is my friends. Breath of life, regen, circle of retribution, jabs, I literally just run around spamming keys. Deltias was the only decent looking guide I could find. I want to heal, I just don't want to be a bad one.
  • Bobby_V_Rockit
    Bobby_V_Rockit
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    I probably have to put vigor on my buff bar a quarter of the time due to healer/dps not doing their job. But as usual I assume its my fault as a DPS
    Edited by Bobby_V_Rockit on March 19, 2017 12:05PM
  • Deadfinger6
    Deadfinger6
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    It may help if fellow dungeon explorers would take it upon themselves to stand outside of the red circle of death.
  • SolarCat02
    SolarCat02
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    Anyone have a link to a truly good healing guide for a templar? I am new enough to the game I simply do not know the right things to be doing, so I avoid even trying anything unless it is my friends. Breath of life, regen, circle of retribution, jabs, I literally just run around spamming keys. Deltias was the only decent looking guide I could find. I want to heal, I just don't want to be a bad one.

    @dantuffley_ESO
    First thing to focus on when healing is the actual healing. You want to be sure you can help keep the group alive. (Notice I said HELP - the other players do have a responsibility to avoid damage when possible or mitigate it, as even the best healer can't heal through everything).
    To this end you definitely want a restoration staff with at least the first two skills unlocked - Grand Healing to Healing Springs and Regeneration to whichever morph you prefer (I have learned that one is a personal preference thing). As a Templar yes you also want Cleansing Ritual, Breath of Life although be very careful not to rely on BoL too much. A good Templar healer knows when BoL is an asset and when Heal-over-Time skills are better; a bad one relies on BoL to recover from everything.

    Second order of business is to stay alive! Make sure you are healing yourself rather than simply fixating on everyone else's health bars (we have all forgotten our own bars at some point so don't be embarrassed, it does happen :p), make sure you are also working to avoid AoEs and other damage (but don't be "that guy" hiding too far away to heal anyone!), and if you are targeted by adds walk over towards the action to bring those adds into range of the tank to taunt or the dps' AoEs to kill them faster. Mitigation is also important; as a Templar you have Rune Focus which NEEDS to be on your bar as it offers you protection AND Major Mending to boost your heals.

    Once you feel comfortable with the healing aspect of things, it's time to bring in some of the group buffs and sustain features.
    Shards are great for feeding stamina to the tank and damage dealers. They also add a little dps, so they are perfect for tossing directly onto a boss.
    Combat Prayer (Restoration Staff) is a heal that also boosts damage done by anyone it hits. It is tricky to use in mobile fights, but very easy in stacked ones. You definitely want access to this.
    Elemental Drain (destruction staff) or Radiant Aura (Templar) are great for magicka sustain. You personally only need to run one of them because it's the same magickasteal debuff. Elemental Drain is best if you don't have a tank, as it adds a debuff for magicka attacks (same as tank's Puncture skill) and doesn't pull aggro. Radiant Aura will hit all the adds with the magickasteal but also pulls aggro so only use it if you are comfortable with that!
    Orbs (undaunted) are also great! There is a healing morph and also a morph for providing a burst of magicka. Morph preference depends on the group, so unless you are running with the same group most of the time just pick the morph you personally prefer.
    Siphon (restoration staff) and Blood Fountain (undaunted) do a healthsteal debuff. You don't need both on your bar, although having access to both is good.
    Aggressive Warhorn (PvP) is the most important healer ultimate for Trials. If you intend to run Trials you need this. It's not as commonly seen in dungeons, but if you are running with good damage dealers they will love you for using this.
    Barrier (PvP) is also a useful ultimate. It's a group shield, and I tend to slot this if people are having difficulty avoiding AoEs and one-shot mechanics in Vet dungeons (for example, final bosses of Spindleclutch I, Wayrest I, Ruins of Mazzatun for the execute phase...) It can sometimes be useful in Trials, such as the upstairs boss in Hel Ra Citadel, but it's very situational and generally will not be a staple on your bar once you level it.

    This should get you started! Gear-wise, if you have access to White Gold Tower you will want to get a set of Spell Power Cure once you hit max level, and build your gear setup around that set. Skill wise, there are others that I have not mentioned that may also work well for you, so try stuff out, too!
    Why be normal when you can be better?

    Elissandra Ravenwing, Magicka Dragonknight Healer
    Lady Kalila, Stamina Templar DPS
    Stands-in-Danger, Nightblade Saptank
    Zalarah, Stamina Dragonknight DPS
  • Valykc
    Valykc
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    I am a CP465 DK Tank and I have noticed the same thing when I queue for dungeons, sometimes it's DPS that are running weird builds or sometimes it's healers that spam BoL until they are out of Magicka or their healing isn't strong enough for the dungeon. I ran into this so many times that I now carry Troll King in my Inventory just in case. Troll King plus Echoing Vigor can save lives sometimes haha.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    The bigger problems are DDs queing as Tanks who do not taunt and have not intention to do so. These people usually are DDs who queue as Tank or Healer for quick access without the skills.

    The Dungeon Finder should only allow
    - Tanks with at least one taunt skill equipped
    - Healers with at least two healing skills equipped


    Edited by BalticBlues on March 19, 2017 1:47PM
  • Rawst
    Rawst
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    All PUGs are underwhelming sometimes, not just healers. I main an Altmer Templar healer (with SPC and IA) so I don't really meet other healers.
    I heal vet trials and pledges with guildies but sometimes I want a quick random dungeon when guildies are not around, and often get severely disappointed with pug DDs. (I never queue for random on my DDs because of the atrociously long time it takes them to get into a grp.)

    As a healer it is important to provide not only heals but other beneficial stuff. Throw shards, use repentance mid-fight on trash and on boss if it has adds, use ele drain/siphon spirit on boss. Combat prayer is very useful because of the buffs too. Trials need orbs and warhorn.

    I am tolerant with low level players, actively help newbies, but if I'd like to eat dinner in 30 mins and you're a cp300 who repeatedly ignores the mechanics after repeated explanations, I just leave. Also when random dungeon turns out to be ICP, WGT, RoM or CoS... ugh.
    Beasts in amber! Wake and remember!
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