Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

lol silence from the devs/community managers now is just sad. What a terrible community site for feedback

They actually talked about it, briefly, on ESO Live today. They basically said what others have already said, that they didn't want to add Cool Downs to abilities and figured that COST would be the mitigating factor, but now with such high CP cap, many high level players have unlimited sustain, which is a major reason for this 'balance'.

They also mentioned how most CPs have a 'counter' in the CP system, but Cost Reduction does not.

Joy_Division wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is plenty of options. As a magics user you could spend your points on Tenacity increasing the amount of Magicka you return to yourself with heavy attacks. You could reduce your stamina usage for sprint which would be a huge benefit to the already low stamina pool you have.

The champion point system isn't just damage, defense, regen, and reduction.

The move as I suggested opens a lot of possibilities and allows you to overcome shortcomings you originally couldnt.

I am sorry. But for someone, whose role is literally damage dealer, it is just damage, defense, regen, and reduction.

Sprinting, roll-dodging and breaking free will not help me or those, who are with me, on Valkyn Skoria. They won't help with atros at ICP. They won't help when Rakkhat will go to the center of the room with his 5% hp and start casting his globe of doom.

I am damage dealer. My job it to make the fight as short as possible, so my teammates won't get tired and overwhelmed and won't start making natural human mistakes because of it. I don't need sprinting or freaking double money from chests I need to do damage.

Apparently you've never played a healer then. Where break free and roll dodge is a life saver for you and your group. You have something called tunnel vision. Not every tree is intended to boost exactly the things you want. That's the problem with it currently. It's too easy to do so and many top end players as well as ZOS want to lower the DPS ceiling and raise the floor (their words exactly). Moving the CP trees around to prevent stacking of 100% sustain and 100% damage is the best way to achieve that.

I didn't say a word about healers in my post, you know I did play one a little bit, but this is completely besides the point, because I'm talking about DDs. It's not "tunnel vision". It's a perspective of someone who takes the role seriously. For now, yet again, I'm talking about DDs.

Simply moving will make the whole thief tree for mag DDs pointless. Nothing in it benefits the role they are supposed to fulfil. 200CPs - into nothing.

Other changes have to be made. Simply cutting the third out (for mag and stam dps) isn't an answer.

I already listed examples proving your assertion wrong. There is options available which can be beneficial to DD's. The problem is that you assume that these benefits must work in the manner you deem fit because you're DPS. As if the title of being a DPS makes you exempt from having to make tough decisions regarding your CP allocation. It doesnt. All it means is that you'll have to be wiser in your CP allocation for the dmg and sustain you want and you'll use CP on nodes you never considered in the past.

Go look at the CP trees again. I see a few which have benefit inherently or situationally. The real problem is that you don't want to see a change at all because you're content with how it is now. My consideration is still better than the approach ZOS appears to be going. Because if they have it their way you'll lose your sustain and your dps. With my suggestion you at least have a choice to balance it out in the manner you deem fit.

You have the attitude of the original Champion Point designer.

But most of those CP stars are inefficient, underwhelming, niche, or just plain bad. Yes, as a DPS, I could put points into tenacity, or sprint cost reduction ... but why would I do that? If I am running Trials and my job is to DPS, my job is to do two things: maximize my DPS and not die. Every point I put into sprint cost reduction is lowering my primary function. And I'm not going to put a point in that anyway because if I die in a Trial, it's not something a 5% sprint cost reduction would have prevented. The stars are nowhere near equivalent to the amount of power it offers a player: a 1% damage boast >>>>>>> 1% less sprinting cost!

I am most certainly not content with the CP system as it is. A big reason for the very problem Zos is trying to fix is that there are only a few good stars that offer any real power that of course we took them all. The preferable reform would be to change the bad stars to offer us more viable and interesting alternatives that would help diversify the game instead of just "moar power." What you and ZoS are proposing is to take away one of the few stars we want, replace it with one that is highly questionable (It only works in PvP, so I am screwed since I PvP and PvE; also a flat removal of resoruce mamanegemnt does not effect all classes the same), and ask us to take the bad stars. That just spells a flat out nerf and do nothing that makes our characters more interesting to play.

The CP system is not designed to entirely aid your primary function. The problem with it currently is that it does that already far too well.

Secondly, ZOS is advocating the removal of the star you desire. I am not. I am advocating it being moved to make the choice between DPS and Sustain more difficult. ZOS is advocating a complete removal of the star making your sustain infinitely more difficult.

My proposed method is a balanced approach and is far less damaging than the approach that ZOS appears to aiming at. I understand that not every tree can be better specialized or have more efficient stars, because then you're just repeating the problem we have now. High Sustain and High DPS ceilings. The current CP trees are far to efficient and needs to be moved around to make that efficiency more difficult. Until then, the problem will persist with the high DPS ceiling also possessing incredible sustain.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Because it is a nerf afterall. But it is one that ZOS wants and it is also one that many of us want. We want the DPS ceiling lowered, or more difficult to sustain at that ceiling. ZOS is going about doing it in a much worst way than I proposed.

I don't want the CP system designed so that every single point is used to pump up damage and the sustain to maintain it. I want to move things around intentionally to make that more difficult with CP allocation.

It would indirectly balance PVP as well by making heavy armor less desirable as it will negatively effect sustain and damage. Without completely removing the ability to achieve one or the other.

Also, I do agree there is really bad stars and that some of them need overhauled or tweaked. But as long as the sustain and damage nodes utilize different color CP pools the sustain and damage ceilings will always be too high.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

lol silence from the devs/community managers now is just sad. What a terrible community site for feedback

They actually talked about it, briefly, on ESO Live today. They basically said what others have already said, that they didn't want to add Cool Downs to abilities and figured that COST would be the mitigating factor, but now with such high CP cap, many high level players have unlimited sustain, which is a major reason for this 'balance'.

They also mentioned how most CPs have a 'counter' in the CP system, but Cost Reduction does not.

ZOS conveniently forgot about cost poisons when they were talking about cost reduction. Awesome.

Sounds like they also conveniently forgot that you don't get unlimited sustain when not wearing heavy armour. Rip light and medium. The cp cap is now 600, we have 3000? more to go. I wonder if there will be any of the champion system left by then lol. They might as well just not increase the cap if they then have to take away afterwards.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sounds like they also conveniently forgot that you don't get unlimited sustain when not wearing heavy armour. Rip light and medium. The cp cap is now 600, we have 3000? more to go. I wonder if there will be any of the champion system left by then lol. They might as well just not increase the cap if they then have to take away afterwards.

It makes no sense, at least to me, to provide more Champion Points over time, only to nerf what those points do. Isn't this similar to stepping down harder on the gas pedal, while simultaneously applying the parking brake? If your problem is with the buffs max level players have, do not institute nerfs that affect all levels of players. Again, makes no sense.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

lol silence from the devs/community managers now is just sad. What a terrible community site for feedback

Not defending them, I'm guessing to avoid further backlash; either way it's not fun to be in their position now.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

Speaking as someone who has killed hard mode Rakkaht, you are drastically exaggerating how bad it will be. Minor magicka steal is OP my friend, use it . TBH I miss raiding in 1.3-1.5 when we actually did have to worry about resource management in raids. With the exception of Rakkaht hard mode, everything is too easy now.

You don't understand it, everything is easy for me also, for you, your guild, ect... But we aren't the majority just the minority, some people can't even get to the first boss in vMsa, some people don't even know how to break free after 3k hours in the game because they still get nervous, most people pay hardcore players to run content for them, it's not easy, it's just that some people are just skilled and clever than others, I dream about a new difficulty for both dungeons and trials, even for vMsa but it's not going to happen because after all the 0.1% is not the majority.

Can you imagine those people with - 15% Reduction Cost?

Everyone saying all the time how they have so much magicka/stamina that they do not have to try at all to manage their resources, ZoS realizes that resource management is an integral part of a game that has resources. Players complain that they will have to actually manage their resources in the future, maybe they do not realize that they are playing a game with resources.

Everyone saying that the change will benefit Heavy Armor because it has a different source of resource generation, maybe they are not realizing that the CPs that are being removed are cost reduction, which heavy armor relies on most of all...

I guess my single biggest gripe is that as is I have resource issues in random 4 man dungeons because, shocker, there's little to no support. I am not particularly fond of the notion that in their efforts to make resource management in trials harder they're making resource management in every other part of the game a living hell-hole.

I'll say it again, if I'm forced to heavy attack as part of my "normal rotation" I'll be finding something else to play. I do NOT enjoy that lame game-play.

Vahrokh wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Well I really do not want to be that guy but eso is not a casual mmorpg, and mmorpgs where never meant to be super casual,

MMOs that were "never meant to be casual" were something when 100k subscribers were considered a big success.
That allowed MMOs with good gameplay, but no real "bell and whistles" that nowadays are almost taken as granted: NPCs with speech, maps that change depending on quest status, multi-gaming platforms support and so on.

In order to allow these modern features, the amount of income has to grow tenfold and this only happens if you get ten times as many subscribers and this only happens if you lower the difficulty curve.

Actually that information is not correct I have watched many mmorpgs fall because they try to appeal to everyone, it never works. There is a reason why everquest 1 and 2 are still around after all these years.

Could we have Cp or time played posted 4 context? These communities are filled w/morons thinking because they blow D the game needs 2 be fixed.

Cp was introduced as a power creep 4 pc. If you dont know what that is please stfu. The devs telling us Azures runs better on ps4 because it has no cp is *** to those of us that know better. Azures had no latency because only 20 ppl went there. They want to test ish fine. Use a test server. Im not paying for the privilege of being a tester again.

Remove cp and ull still have ppl grinding skyreach to max level only to moan about sp. I never post because y bother. Knee jerks and theyre 2 weeks of play time know better. smh. As great as a huge instance like pvp is, its quite ambitious on console. Pc I can only imagine for those just above system requirements it must b unplayable. Despite CP._.

Trihugger wrote: »

I guess my single biggest gripe is that as is I have resource issues in random 4 man dungeons because, shocker, there's little to no support. I am not particularly fond of the notion that in their efforts to make resource management in trials harder they're making resource management in every other part of the game a living hell-hole.

I'll say it again, if I'm forced to heavy attack as part of my "normal rotation" I'll be finding something else to play. I do NOT enjoy that lame game-play.

Every class has options 2 sjstain. If you dont know what they r who's faultt is that? Ele drain or CoP are also non class specific so theres really no excuse in dungeons. For context what is ur 'normal rotation'? Normal rotations are SUSTAINED Dps so im really curious. I test alot of ppl and good players rock 800 regen where others blow thru 2000 recov and do no dmg. Idk if the devs can be expected to bridge that skill gap.

So next time u run and the healer doesnt know they r support slot ele. Its wat experienced players do.

This thread is literal cancer 2 my eyes. If i had 2 guess less resources = less dmg = less animations = less problems.