Why don't you PvP?

srfrogg23 · March 2017

I used to PvP in MMOs, years ago. It's really just not my cup of tea anymore though.

I think my biggest problem with MMO PvP is that it seems impossible to balance correctly. That's where you always end up with the worst cases of FOTM, just because of the nature of RPGs. I just got frustrated, then bored with MMORPG PvP over the years. Always the same issues no matter which game I was playing.

That's not to say there aren't imbalances and FOTM issues in PvE. There absolutely are, but it's a lot easier to ignore those flip-flopping imbalances in a cooperative environment.

In PvE, it doesn't really matter who's on top at the time, everyone is working toward the same goal, so everyone benefits to some degree.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

After a (irrational) outcry from the upcoming CP adjustments from much of the forum community, I keep seeing "most of us don't PvP... etc. etc."

Why?

Everyone that I've introduced into PvP that was very against it, turned out to not being against it at all. By introduced I mean I helped them to know what to expect and how to respond and what skills are needed to help emerge victorious.

Secondly, I have always been a adamant PvPer, but still enjoy "endgame" type pve. I spend 95% of my time PvPing, yet receive compliments in pve often, and I attribute that to the skills I've used and learned in PvP. Without PvP I don't believe I would be as good as I am in PvE.

Anyway, that's just my take on things. I'm just curious; why don't you PvP?

There isn't really much to learn about PVE from PVP. If you feel that way, that's fine but the play-style is so different, they are like different games entirely. I like PVP fine but I wouldn't compare the skill set you get from that to the one you get from PVE.

As to who likes what, in general trying something new usually end up being more fun than what you anticipate it to be. People should try new things. I liked ESO pvp, but there are so many great PVP focused games out there with rule sets built around PVP that it is hard to find any time for this game right now. In the end all it comes down to is an elaborate form of "Tag" played on the internet, and that's what most pvp games are so you find the one that has the most engaging combat system.

I like to just play a game, I don't want to spend hours crunching numbers and grinding sets, or watch videos from professional players to have 30 minutes of unrewarding PVP where you can't even tell what you or your opponent are doing as you are both canceling out all your animations that follow your instant cast abilities and it all just looks like a blur of light at a disco. At least in a game like BF1 or over-watch you can see what's happening and react, and you can get to the top of the scoreboard every 15 minutes instead of having to make it your life's pursuit. Maybe the new arenas will improve the game play in conjunction with some major rules overhaul, we'll see.

Violynne · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

I used to suck at PvP when I first started. I stuck it out, died enough times to figure out how to not suck, and now I love it.

It usually boils down to people not having enough defensive stuff slotted (self heals, defensive buffs, offensive debuffs). Give up some damage for survivability and watch your survival rate double instantly.

Just some tips if you decide to give it another go!

Thanks for the tips! One of my tasks is to understand gear/weapon/armor attributes and go from there.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Cyrodiil pvp is all zerg, and I don't have much fun when I don't feel like I'm having a significant impact on the battle. With zerg pvp you really don't do much as an individual, and often it's just a hectic race to try and keep up with the swarm.

In smaller scale pvp, my issue tends to be with kill times. Imp city or random cyrodiil encounters usually end up being against someone that appears unexpectedly and kills you in a matter of seconds. My characters don't tend to be very tanky, so it's obviously not fun being on the receiving end of a gank.

I haven't actually tried dueling in this game yet, mostly because my characters are never really built for fighting other players, but in other games dueling tended to be my preferred method of pvp, as it took out all other elements and variables and just pits you against the other guy.

In general, though, I feel that this game has had pvp balanced too much in the direction of fast kill times and not enough towards strategy or tactics.

Luigi_Vampa · March 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

It's no secrect that pvp'ers make the best pve'ers.

The situational awareness, on the fly thinking, and quickly reacting, etc. all directly translates to pve content.

I guess you can say PvE players make the best PvP players.

I took my PvE guild to PvP to level their AW skills. In the beginning I wasn't sure if we should hide from the enemy or fight. I hid, and the group fought. The group destroyed all the PvP players.

PvE players work together and know how to listen. This is where most PvP players fail.

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

Kendaric · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

I'm just curious; why don't you PvP?

In my case it's due to several reasons:

1) I don't like PvP and the type of players it often attracts

2) I suffer from a disability that makes it very hard for me to move/dodge/block and use skills at the same time, so I'd be nothing but free AP for enemy players. This also prevents me from doing group content like dungeons.

3) I'm not a competitive type of player and I don't build for maximum efficiency

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I have no interest in any PvP content in any game. The primary problem with PvP is that it doesn't bring anything constructive to the table. With PvE and Co-Op content you work together with others towards a collective goal - everyone is rewarded and everyone learns to work together. No one complains that someone's build is "OP" or "unfair" because the group's goal is to finish the content and everyone is going to get a reward. Co-Op (PvE) is CONSTRUCTIVE. You BUILD people up in PvE.

However, with PvP nothing is gained by others participating in the content, only one person at most gets anything at all - chiefly a shallow ego boost and for what? Do you have such low self-worth that the only way you can justify yourself to the world is to beat on others? PvP at its core in ANY game is DESTRUCTIVE, content that devolves into animals tearing each other apart over a f*** percentage.
Now, the problem is specifically with Cyrodiil and the terrible attempt to put PvE content in PvP. That's the big issue for most players. We mostly want to quest in peace, complete achievements and hunt skyshards in peace. Some of us even go out of our way to AVOID combat, sneaking halfway across the map just so we can be left alone. No one enjoys that. The best solution is to put a "Pre-War" Cyrodiil with only PvE allowed (not even duels) and then keep the "Alliance War" Cyrodiil with PvP. Next, the changes to abilities in PvP should be governed by the Battle Spirit buff and PvE content should be isolated from these changes.

People who are against separating PvP and PvE are the immature children that need to hurt others to have self-worth. By providing the option to engage in PvP and separating its "balance" changes, no one is harmed by ether side of the table. Isolation is the solution to Cyrodiil.

This is why Julius REKT you at Alesia.

Browiseth · March 2017

it makes me want to die

literally, i can't think of a time i've been more stressed out than the last time i pvp'd

plus the balance is some of the worst i've ever seen in any game, and it just amazes me that people can put up with that

also when you say "most people who have been introduced to pvp end up liking it" or whatever statistic you just made up, you're not including the more than likely larger number of people that checked it out and brushed it aside for being the awful mess that it is

Spacemonkey · March 2017

Honestly, because of stealth/invisibility.

Its (imo) the most awful mechanic to add to a huge 200v200v200 player map - and to add to the grief, people get incentivized to use it for the sneak attack bonus.

If there would be a non-stealth campaign (prefereable no-CP as well), I would play it minimum once a week (I dont have that much time to play to start with)

but w/e - min-maxers is another thing but I can deal with that one (it is a mmo); But for sure its hugely annoying to be 3 shot when you have near 30k res/ar and 25k hp .... abusive builds are abusive; and unlike lvl, or strength ratings that most other mmos have, eso gives you 0 way to assess what a player's strength is until its too late.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

Typhoios wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

It's no secrect that pvp'ers make the best pve'ers.

The situational awareness, on the fly thinking, and quickly reacting, etc. all directly translates to pve content.

I guess you can say PvE players make the best PvP players.

I took my PvE guild to PvP to level their AW skills. In the beginning I wasn't sure if we should hide from the enemy or fight. I hid, and the group fought. The group destroyed all the PvP players.

PvE players work together and know how to listen. This is where most PvP players fail.

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

When you say pugs are you talking about pick up groups or solo players that you think are beneath you?

vamp_emily · March 2017

Typhoios wrote: »

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

I can careless if you are impressed. My point was just to counter someone saying "PvP players make better PvE players" which is a false statement. Some people have a hard time excepting that some players just don't want to PvP. That doesn't make them a bad player, and it doesn't make a PvP player better than them.

The problem with your statement is you weren't even there. I play in PvP most the time, and I know the difference between pugs and skilled groups. I can pretty much say my "Pug" group ( people that don't PvP ) wiped out an EP group that was trying to take their scroll back. We just logged into PvP and I seen warden getting attacked, and I said lets go. I woudn't say there was much organization at all. We were there just trying to have fun and get some AP.

Dao_Jones · March 2017

Note: I play on PC NA, so I'm only speaking from that perspective. I have no idea how PvP on consoles works differently. (If it does.)

Turelus wrote: »

I have been a PvP player since I started MMO games and ESO has so far been the most hostile community for it. Now sure this is my own personal experiences, but it's easy for me to see why players are put of PvP.

Really? ESO?

ESO has been the most hostile community for PvP that you have ever seen?

I'm sorry, but I just... I just absolutely can not reconcile that with my experience playing PvP in ESO.

There are five things right off the bat that make ESO's PvP about ten thousand times better than PvP in almost every other MMO I've played in the last ~12 years:

1. Anyone can resurrect you with a soul gem. That is an enormous thing; it means that anyone can help out a downed player. As a result, I've never been in a battle where someone failed to rez me once there was a break in the fighting. (In fact, I've been in many sieges where people risked their own lives to duck in and rez a player in the middle of a fight.) That alone sparks a sense of camaraderie among people on the same side.

2. Anyone can be a healer. Choosing to heal instead of DPS means you're not focused on individual success, but team success, and that's a huge paradigm shift from other games where a zerg of players was basically just 15-20+ individuals who didn't give a *** about anyone other than themselves. (Yeah, it still rewards good CP, but that doesn't change the value.)

3. Zerging is a good thing. People who think that "good" PvP is solo ganking or small team marauding need to disabuse themselves of that notion. In ESO, one of the most useful (and rewarding) things you can do is ball up with a lot of other people, and join the fight against the enemy faction. The goal of ESO PvP is to own land, and anything you're doing that doesn't work toward that end is essentially useless to your side. That solo Stamblade out ganking randoms? He's in it for himself. That level 10 newb who grabbed a catapult and joined 12 other people to flip Fort Ash to deny an enemy faction their Emperor? That dude is a hero.

4. You can be useful at any level. You don't need to wait to level 50 to contribute in PvP. You can walk in at level 10, and immediately contribute to success by healing, manning siege, rezzing players, or even just getting out there and tossing some heat at the enemy. A lower-level player isn't dragging his or her side down, and can actually do pretty well once they know what they're doing.

5. You don't hear the other side's chatter, and you don't see their names. That is huge. HUGE. Because that means you don't hear their smack talk. You don't hear their insults. Hell - you don't even know who just killed you. (Or you killed.) People who haven't PvP'd in ESO probably imagine their horrible experiences in other MMOs, and damn it by association. But man - your enemy in ESO is just a faceless nobody under a faction-colored shield. They're NPCs with slightly smarter AI pathing.

So, look. Is ESO's PvP the best thing ever? No, definitely not. It's not even the best PvP/RvR I've seen in an MMO. But man - it is absolutely nowhere near "the most hostile community for PvP" that I've ever seen.

Tandor · March 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Because I don't like playing against other players, I've never been a 'competitive' person and don't need to feel better than someone else. I do not like 'fast-paced' combat, I don't like whining and complaining, I don't like tea-baggers and their arrogance, I don't like unpredictability. I also don't like games/content that induces any type of stress.

I only solo PvE and I like the pacing, I like the structure, I like knowing pretty much what to expect from every scenario. I like knowing that even should I die, the enemy won't taunt and act like an a**... and if I beat them, they won't linger on with a grudge or try to report me for 'cheating' simply because they lost.

So yes, I prefer a game that's EASY, that isn't stressful, and that's pretty predictable and routine. Some may find that boring, but it's what I enjoy... I am very much a creature of habit and am loathe to do anything spontaneous.

This.

I have done PvP in the past, both in MUDs and in MMOs, and some of it was a passable distraction from PvE for a short time but mostly it was hugely repetitive and limited with gear and level counting for a lot more than skill. There are only so many times you can e.g. capture a flag and find each experience different, one zerg being much like another.

Nowadays as a veteran gamer I'm at an age when I have no interest in the sort of things that @ADarklore describes very well. I have no problem with other people doing PvP, but I prefer skill balancing to be done separately between PvP and PvE as the requirements are usually very different.

Khenarthi · March 2017

I play to relax, and do not find pvp relaxing at all (except repairing walls after siege... but that is mostly just boring).

Luigi_Vampa · March 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

It's no secrect that pvp'ers make the best pve'ers.

The situational awareness, on the fly thinking, and quickly reacting, etc. all directly translates to pve content.

I guess you can say PvE players make the best PvP players.

I took my PvE guild to PvP to level their AW skills. In the beginning I wasn't sure if we should hide from the enemy or fight. I hid, and the group fought. The group destroyed all the PvP players.

PvE players work together and know how to listen. This is where most PvP players fail.

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

When you say pugs are you talking about pick up groups or solo players that you think are beneath you?

I'm talking about unorginized pick up groups. No cooridination, no TS, no complimentary builds, no in depth knowledge of their own build. I suppose this also covers solo players that are zerg surfing. I don't think they are beneath me. If people want to casually play and have fun, I hold nothing against them.

Dao_Jones · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

People who play MMOs with the intent of never, under any circumstances, combating an enemy player have social anxiety issues.

Where did you study for your armchair psychologist doctorate? University of Phoenix?

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

JKorr wrote: »

I'm not competitive. I have autodecline turned on for duels. I don't care if someone else can kill my character. About the only reason I go to Cyrodiil is to craft set gear for guildmates.

I honestly don't see the point in pvp. Congratulations. You have a build set up for pvp, you're geared up for pvp, and you killed my character that isn't set up for pvp, isn't min/maxed for anything, and wears crafted gear. Not to mention I don't bother to fight back. I don't care if you can kill me or not. I just want to be able to go make armor for someone. I'm interested in playing the game, not competing with other players, who, from the ones I've encountered on the occasions I've gone to Cyrodiil, are just a hair off from rabid psychopaths. I've had people try to tell me that the player who killed me over and over again in IC the last time I went there, just outside the crafting station door was looking for a good fight. Personally, I rather doubt that. The player waited until I survived a fight with the daedra before attacking, you know, when you're low on health/magic/stamina because you've been fighting? Second hint; I put my weapons away and didn't fight back. Even if the player missed the clues the first three times he killed me, he should have figured it out by the 4th time. I wasn't going to fight, period. I guess he finally got bored with blocking the crafting station because the 5th time he didn't bother to attack me. I made the gear, left the station and got killed so I could get out of there.

That might be fun for some types of players, but me? No. Not really. I wholeheartedly agree with Nestor. I would cheerfully support a pvp only server for the people who want to pvp all the time. Especially if that meant a pve only instance of Cyrodiil that I could go and pve/explore/actually have fun in without the pvpers to ruin the fun.

So much wow here.

- Duels and PVP in Cyrodiil are extraordinarily different. A good dueler is like a UFC fighter. A good Cyrodiil PVPer is more like a soldier. Put a UFC fighter in a cage with an unarmed soldier and the UFC guy would destroy the soldier. But put 100 armed soldiers against 100 armed UFC fighters on a battlefield and the soldiers might wipe them out 100 to nothing. It's apples and oranges.
- If someone is in front of me you're getting attacked. Level 23 or CP 600. I don't care. Your just in my way.
- Not fighting back is the worst thing you can do. You're a free sack of Alliance Points. It's not a PVPers fault for wanting to PVP in PVP.
- Camping a blacksmith is low. I agree there. Still ... put up a fight. At least try.
- I've found that people who describe PVPers as rabid psychopaths generally need to look in the mirror.
- You gave one example where one person acted like a jerk, while you "fought back" in the least effective way possible. In my view, people of your kind are way more of the problem with PVP then one jerk ganker.

Luigi_Vampa · March 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

I can careless if you are impressed. My point was just to counter someone saying "PvP players make better PvE players" which is a false statement. Some people have a hard time excepting that some players just don't want to PvP. That doesn't make them a bad player, and it doesn't make a PvP player better than them.

The problem with your statement is you weren't even there. I play in PvP most the time, and I know the difference between pugs and skilled groups. I can pretty much say my "Pug" group ( people that don't PvP ) wiped out an EP group that was trying to take their scroll back. We just logged into PvP and I seen warden getting attacked, and I said lets go. I woudn't say there was much organization at all. We were there just trying to have fun and get some AP.

I wasn't there. I don't particularly care about the PvP vs PvE player debate. Good players are found in both content, and a lot of the best players do both. Unless someone sets up a scientific experiment to somehow test this, all anyone is going to do is trade anecdotes. That isn't very interesting.

Anyway, if this could get back to why PvE players don't PvP, that would be good. Although a lot of it isn't very constructive because a lot of it so far has been PvE players saying they don't PvP because PvPers are toxic and PvPers saying PvEers are also toxic.

Izaki · March 2017

Can't be bothered anymore to be honest. I used to be out there all the time in between trials, but now, I haven't been in there for like a few weeks apart from the occasional Tel Var farm in IC. Its just a waste of potions without any real outcome. Trials are way more fun.

Magdalina · March 2017

There're many reasons why one wouldn't want to PvP, many legit reasons among them too. I do think a lot of the people are just afraid to try something new and different though and perhaps being too serious about it. I hated Cyrodiil for the longest time, the unfair-ness of being ganked literally nearly made me cry, I couldn't phathom how anyone could enjoy killing a defenceless victim like that(mind you I still can't. But now I'm a lot harder to gank

)...was a mixture of me trying to understand what it was that made so many of my friends like it so much and me getting bored in PvE that eventually brought me there. And guess what, it actually starts being really fun - or can start being really fun at least - if you accept that you're gonna die. There's no consequence, no even armor repair cost, maybe just some horse riding to repeat. So you die. So what? It doesn't make you a failure, just means that either you made a mistake or the odds were just not in your favor(either due to the opposing side having more people/higher skill or one of the multitude of bugs). Res and try again.

The "hostility" everyone talks about...Idk, personally I think most of it is competitive-ness(which yes, not everyone wants to be competitive and that's fine) and a lot of it that goes beyond simple competitive-ness, like teabagging or hate tells...makes me giggle, in most cases it kinda feels like they're little kids/teens who're feeling insecure and are trying to compensate by that by being overly rude(likely moreso than they would be irl because online there's little to no consequence). It's kind of funny if you look at it this way. Personally teabagging always makes me feel kind of amused. It's a pixel taking a certain position to another pixel, why should it offend me as a person? Moreover, why do people feel the need to try to make it into offence? Did you ever notice that actual good players don't tend to tbag much, they 1vX and move on, but if 5 people gank you from stealth you can be pretty sure they'll all do it. Or if a lowbie potato manages to land killing blow with jesus beam from the back of his zerg that's steamrolling you 20v1. It's almost like people are trying to make themselves feel important and like they matter - by means other than skills(which they lack). Imo it's funny and a little bit sad perhaps.

Tl;dr - I think the issue why a lot of people can't enjoy PvP is because they're taking it too seriously, really.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

Typhoios wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

It's no secrect that pvp'ers make the best pve'ers.

The situational awareness, on the fly thinking, and quickly reacting, etc. all directly translates to pve content.

I guess you can say PvE players make the best PvP players.

I took my PvE guild to PvP to level their AW skills. In the beginning I wasn't sure if we should hide from the enemy or fight. I hid, and the group fought. The group destroyed all the PvP players.

PvE players work together and know how to listen. This is where most PvP players fail.

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

When you say pugs are you talking about pick up groups or solo players that you think are beneath you?

I'm talking about unorginized pick up groups. No cooridination, no TS, no complimentary builds, no in depth knowledge of their own build. I suppose this also covers solo players that are zerg surfing. I don't think they are beneath me. If people want to casually play and have fun, I hold nothing against them.

It's funny because the whole ulterior argument of this thread is to convince new and inexperienced players to come to Cyrodiil to feed mid to low ranged players that can't, and will never compete with the best groups true-flame offers. The very players who define "PUGS" by your definition. Do you realize the derogatory and contempt laden nomenclature of ESO PVP called "PUG", is working counter to this threads intentions? Any idiot could see this, and you won't sway anyone to join with that point of view.

In almost every other game but this one, "PUG" just means pick up group and often times pick up groups can be very good depending on their player composition, All Stars Basketball is a pick up group. 5 guys from the top 10 rocket arena teams grouping up on a public server is a pick up group. That's what a PUG is; but in ESO culture it's something bad and skilless to be farmed.

parkham · March 2017

A-holes are everywhere. It is only logical to conclude there would also be A-holes in a video game. The only thing that differentiates PVE A-holes from PVP A-holes is the degree of effect they can have on you, as a player.

If you cannot / will not handle this increased degree of effect on you, as a player - then simply do not go there. No need to even comment on it. Just go do your thing and those who are willing to absorb this increased degree of effect on them, as players, will continue to do so.

Chronicburn · March 2017

I don't pvp but will eventually... there's just so much to explore in this game and I usually only get in an hour a day!

Turelus · March 2017

@Dao_Jones let me show you my post again with the bits I think you didn't take on board when reading highlighted.

Turelus wrote: »

I have been a PvP player since I started MMO games and ESO has so far been the most hostile community for it. Now sure this is my own personal experiences, but it's easy for me to see why players are put of PvP.

Now let me show you your reply with relevent parts highlighted.

Dao_Jones wrote: »

Really? ESO?

ESO has been the most hostile community for PvP that you have ever seen?

I'm sorry, but I just... I just absolutely can not reconcile that with my experience playing PvP in ESO.

So, look. Is ESO's PvP the best thing ever? No, definitely not. It's not even the best PvP/RvR I've seen in an MMO. But man - it is absolutely nowhere near "the most hostile community for PvP" that I've ever seen.

Me and you, we're not the same person, we've not had the same experiences. That's why I am very careful to state it when something is subjective to my own experience, like I did.

Dao_Jones wrote: »

There are five things right off the bat that make ESO's PvP about ten thousand times better than PvP in almost every other MMO I've played in the last ~12 years:

These were all good points and do show why ESO has a great PvP system, however it doesn't change the fact that ESO has an element of rude players in PvP that are fast to jump on people and smack talk them any chance they can get.
I read a lot of the PvP threads on the forums even when I am not partaking in them, and it normally takes less than a page before a thread about an issue such as proc set balance derails into name calling, and epeening from players of different factions.

Now I have said in other posts this isn't representative of the entire PvP community, but even if the minority are the vocal ones they're the ones painting the image of the PvP community most forums folks see and the ones leaving the impressions on those who enter Cyrodiil.

FuriousStar · March 2017

I enjoy pvp in most games. Right now though, my current Templar main is not up to par to be in pvp. Nor are my alts. I can do stuff in Imperial city, but that's where I go if I jump in Cyrodiil as of now. Personally what I've seen in pvp is that Cyrodiil is DK and Pact territory, and my Temp just gets* thrashed whenever I run into a mob.

And I'm sure I'll get disagreements for that last statement, but that's fine. EP usually dominates the map from what I see, and 50+ waves of DK just lags out my console. Not worth the headache atm.

AndrewQ84 · March 2017

I have never really been a fan of PvP in general. If I do run it, it usually is with my girlfriend. She runs healer and I run tank. In most other games, it usually takes quite a few players wailing on us to kill us. That part is fun. But the overall stress related in trying to take out other players and capture all these objectives is not my thing. At times it feels more like work and not like a game that I can enjoy. I also am not a fan of those people who use the FOTM. I personally feel that if an individual needs to go that route and change everything about the character their playing just to perform better than others, then there is a problem. If you are really good with your toon, there should be no need to overly change everything. Tweeks here and there are ok, but when someone starts telling me that I need to outright overhaul my toon because the FOTM says too, I don't like it. Now, that being said, I do like spending time in Cyro. It is pretty and there are other activities to do there. All those skyshards and solo dungeons, plus all the lore books and other quests that are involved. It feels more like open world pvp vs the traditional "lets que and hope we get a good pvp map this time."

KingYogi415 · March 2017

Why don't I PVP?

I have to work, sleep, eat and go out drinking with my friends at least once a month.

Other then that tho....

Browiseth · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I couldn't phathom how anyone could enjoy killing a defenceless victim like that

victim? really?

Betheny · March 2017

*edit in next post*

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

Violynne wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I used to suck at PvP when I first started. I stuck it out, died enough times to figure out how to not suck, and now I love it.

It usually boils down to people not having enough defensive stuff slotted (self heals, defensive buffs, offensive debuffs). Give up some damage for survivability and watch your survival rate double instantly.

Just some tips if you decide to give it another go!

Thanks for the tips! One of my tasks is to understand gear/weapon/armor attributes and go from there.

Dao_Jones wrote: »

Note: I play on PC NA, so I'm only speaking from that perspective. I have no idea how PvP on consoles works differently. (If it does.)

Turelus wrote: »

I have been a PvP player since I started MMO games and ESO has so far been the most hostile community for it. Now sure this is my own personal experiences, but it's easy for me to see why players are put of PvP.

Really? ESO?

ESO has been the most hostile community for PvP that you have ever seen?

I'm sorry, but I just... I just absolutely can not reconcile that with my experience playing PvP in ESO.

There are five things right off the bat that make ESO's PvP about ten thousand times better than PvP in almost every other MMO I've played in the last ~12 years:

1. Anyone can resurrect you with a soul gem. That is an enormous thing; it means that anyone can help out a downed player. As a result, I've never been in a battle where someone failed to rez me once there was a break in the fighting. (In fact, I've been in many sieges where people risked their own lives to duck in and rez a player in the middle of a fight.) That alone sparks a sense of camaraderie among people on the same side.

2. Anyone can be a healer. Choosing to heal instead of DPS means you're not focused on individual success, but team success, and that's a huge paradigm shift from other games where a zerg of players was basically just 15-20+ individuals who didn't give a *** about anyone other than themselves. (Yeah, it still rewards good CP, but that doesn't change the value.)

3. Zerging is a good thing. People who think that "good" PvP is solo ganking or small team marauding need to disabuse themselves of that notion. In ESO, one of the most useful (and rewarding) things you can do is ball up with a lot of other people, and join the fight against the enemy faction. The goal of ESO PvP is to own land, and anything you're doing that doesn't work toward that end is essentially useless to your side. That solo Stamblade out ganking randoms? He's in it for himself. That level 10 newb who grabbed a catapult and joined 12 other people to flip Fort Ash to deny an enemy faction their Emperor? That dude is a hero.

4. You can be useful at any level. You don't need to wait to level 50 to contribute in PvP. You can walk in at level 10, and immediately contribute to success by healing, manning siege, rezzing players, or even just getting out there and tossing some heat at the enemy. A lower-level player isn't dragging his or her side down, and can actually do pretty well once they know what they're doing.

5. You don't hear the other side's chatter, and you don't see their names. That is huge. HUGE. Because that means you don't hear their smack talk. You don't hear their insults. Hell - you don't even know who just killed you. (Or you killed.) People who haven't PvP'd in ESO probably imagine their horrible experiences in other MMOs, and damn it by association. But man - your enemy in ESO is just a faceless nobody under a faction-colored shield. They're NPCs with slightly smarter AI pathing.

So, look. Is ESO's PvP the best thing ever? No, definitely not. It's not even the best PvP/RvR I've seen in an MMO. But man - it is absolutely nowhere near "the most hostile community for PvP" that I've ever seen.

Slow clap.

Also, consoles are the exact same way. ESO PVP is hug fest in comparison to almost every other online game. Try playing a FIFA drop in game or two. Within an hour your headset will be filled with racist slurs and 1970's *** music.