Still really missing auction house.

Cherryblossom · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

As I've shown above I do make constructive ideas for improving the current system, but too many people who are against the idea of an AH, will blindly defend the current broken system.
Personally I'm happy to keep the current system if its improved and made totally inclusive. But as I said, currently it is totally broken, to claim otherwise is a lie.

So would you be happy with the current system if the following changes then.
A global search feature that lists how many of said item are for sale in each zone. The list being an expandable field which shows the name of each zone trader and how many they stock each (note this wouldn't show prices).

Completely revised UI to help buyers refine searches in a meaningful way.

Fixing the search do it doesn't take years or crash every other search.

The argument on inclusion is a little more complex and one I don't think we would find any agreement on.
The current system allows for everyone to try, but to succeed and own a high traffic trade place required effort from a guild master (and officers) to run a guild and members to make sure they're selling items which will actually sell.

Much of the complaining is that players don't want to have to join a guild in order to sell wares. This I feel is where we need to convince people that trade guilds are not some exploiting evil devil. There is far too much false propaganda thrown around which gets repeated yet doesn't hold true.
There are casual trade guilds out there which do not have fees and still hold traders, they just don't hold the premier traders.
Getting into a trade guild is as simple as asking in zone or on the forums.
You don't require a trader to sell your item, people were able to sell in house well enough before traders were a thing, if you're not selling things then check what you're listing is priced well or something people actually want to buy.

There is a finite number of traders in the game but many of these are not fully utilised yet and more are added every year, once the system is at breaking point for competition of these traders it could be argued there need something new.
Otherwise look at ways to open up access to trade stalls without simply gutting the current system.

@Turelus
I like some of the suggestions, I don't think anyone would disagree that the UI is useless (no idea how console players cope). I don't agree with it not being inclusive, we need some way where everyone can sell. If the game ever grew, then a significant majority would not have access. It's already been noted that the fixed total is around the 75k people if they aren't in multiple guilds and they are all full! So if the population ever reached 1 million, this would mean 925k not able to sell or take part, this is frankly ridiculous.

adhoc selling is not for all, many worry they are going to get scammed. Being able to only to sell to the people you are in guilds with is also nearly pointless.
I don't think the main complaining is that they have to join a guild, although I can see why people are not happy about joining an impersonal Trade Guild, rather than a guild that organises Trials, Dungeons, RP or PVP.

Trade Guilds do exploit the market though, I belong to a few, so I know there are occasions that certain items are bought up and sold at a higher price.

I do believe the current system need gutting.

How about this for an idea, every zone has one trader, each guild bases itself in a particular zone, there guild store is then available in that zone through the trader. There will still be healthy competition through guilds, there will also be zone hopping to get a bargain for those who enjoy that.

Turelus · March 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I like some of the suggestions, I don't think anyone would disagree that the UI is useless (no idea how console players cope). I don't agree with it not being inclusive, we need some way where everyone can sell. If the game ever grew, then a significant majority would not have access. It's already been noted that the fixed total is around the 75k people if they aren't in multiple guilds and they are all full! So if the population ever reached 1 million, this would mean 925k not able to sell or take part, this is frankly ridiculous.

Agreed but again this is a specific that could be addressed rather than a "gut it all" reason.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Trade Guilds do exploit the market though, I belong to a few, so I know there are occasions that certain items are bought up and sold at a higher price.

This will happen regardless of any system when someone or a collection of people have enough money.
EVE Online is a perfect example of how this happens and it's tracked in game to see it. A recent event saw someone buy up 200 SKINs for 20mil each and relist them all at 400mil.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

How about this for an idea, every zone has one trader, each guild bases itself in a particular zone, there guild store is then available in that zone through the trader. There will still be healthy competition through guilds, there will also be zone hopping to get a bargain for those who enjoy that.

I'm not against a change like this but there needs to be a locking mechanism on how many guilds/players can us one zone. Otherwise you will just see everyone use Craglorn only and have a standard AH system because it's more beneficial to stock on location (see Jita in EVE Online)

Thalmar · March 2017

I just wanted to jump in and put my opinion about the subject. No one really needs to answer, defend or support, this is my opinion and it only regards to developers.

I played the game when it first launched. Then left and come back a couple times. The biggest reason that I find my self leving the game, I can not keep up with the aims that I want for myself without selling my items in a place (no need to be AH). I am an ordinary person, over 40 and plays the games to have fun. I dont like to spam chat to sell, my teenage yelling days well passed. I dont like the mentality being in a guild to sell or buy items. Change the name already, a "guild" in my mind where I play with my friends, not where hundreds of strangers spamming in chat to sell their items. If I ever join a guild it will be a friendly environment with nice people relatively my liking.

For this reason I never felt belong to this game, never invested in it, or supported with real money as selling and buying is a big deal for me in mmorpgs. I am so sure there are lots of other people who feel the same way as I do. Just the sake of supporting bigger guilds developers already made grave harm to this game. For every type of players there should be an option for buying and selling, even in these cheap f2p games have an option. And please dont say join a guild, I mean for every type of players there should be an option to sell and buy regardless you are in a guild or not.

As the last words, game or developers are not missing anything at the absense of myself. This is just my humble opinion for the developers to consider an option for the lonely, solo players who do not want to take part in a guild. One day I will be back and check in if there is a place in the game for me to sell and buy, till then happy gaming people.

mikeabboudb14_ESO · March 2017

i am not fits the game perfectly. every other game ever made that way

> please

Turelus · March 2017

@Thalmar there are many guilds which don't allow WTS/WTB in chat so it's not spammed (as well as keeping sales to taxable means).

There are relaxed and casual trade guild which require you to take no part at all bar listing some items to sell, these can be sold in house or via a merchant if the guild owns one.
There is also an option to disable the chat from specific guilds, meaning if you really want to visible sign you're in one other than having a place to sell that can be achieved.

There is an option to buy outside of a guild, many in fact and the option to sell is there as well via zone (which you've chosen not to use), trade forums (3rd party) or asking friends in social/gameplay guilds to list things for you.

Asking for a system to be stripped from the game because you don't want to use it is very unfair on those who do like it (and I understand that's a two edge blade with me asking/forcing you to use it).

I would rather some kind of compromise which isn't a one size fits all copy of every other MMO's AH but does allow more inclusion. On of my biggest joys for this game is the ability to have regional trading like EVE Online where people can make money by being a trader, that's a whole gameplay style for those who enjoy it.

Elsonso · March 2017

Tandor wrote: »

The present system sucks for everyone except those few who profit enormously from it, and there are an awful lot of players who will have nothing to do with it (quite apart from those who would like to participate but are constantly priced out).

Almost everything you are saying has been countered, but I do want to add that the demographic for which the system really sucks is those who don't want anything to do with it. Thousands that are participating in the system are not Trade Barons, at the guild or the player level. Most of the players, and guilds, that are participating are no where even close to that. Most of the seller participating in the system, are not profiting enormously.

Anyone who thinks that the system is being controlled by Trade Baron conglomerates, with our without add-ons, simply fails to understand the bigger picture of what is going on and how the system works. In that, they fail to understand why ZOS has done this system, and why they have said, in no uncertain terms, that this is the system that they want. The core design is very deliberate, decided after looking at what other games have done, and they were right to do it this way. Very right.

I have been on-board with this from the very start. I have been in other MMO games. I know how global commerce systems work and have seen them. I immediately recognized that this was the proper direction to take this game. Now, they just need to finish the thing.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

It's already been noted that the fixed total is around the 75k people if they aren't in multiple guilds and they are all full! So if the population ever reached 1 million, this would mean 925k not able to sell or take part, this is frankly ridiculous.

Right now, I don't think that this is an issue. It would be cool if it was an issue, but there are two ways to address this. One is with more guild kiosks, another is with larger guilds.

Frankly, I am sure that there are far more buyers than sellers. Yeah, there might be people who, on occasion, would like to sell something, but most of the time, for most of the players, I don't think that access to a guild trader is anything they really think about.

Morrowind will most certainly add to the number of guild trader kiosks in the game. Yes, this will be available only to players who have purchased the Chapter, but I think that market penetration for this will be pretty close to absolute, as time progresses.

Selling only to people in a guild is limited, but it is not pointless. There are guilds out there that have a guild store, and no guild kiosk, for many reasons. There is commerce in these guilds. This is actually how the system started, and the reasoning for it is for guild mates to provide for each other. This might not dominate what is going on, but a large percentage of my sales at a guild trader actually come from my own guild.

No, the system does not need to be gutted.

ereboz · March 2017

I would love a global auction house. Sucks needing to be in multiple trading guilds, pay to stay in the guild, then sometimes lose trader for a week and have *** sales. Not to mention running around 10 different zones (load screens) to find good prices

Kodrac · March 2017

Here's my idea: It's very similar to SWG system if you played it. In SWG, before they added housing and player cities they basically had a global AH. At every major city there was a vendor that you could list your things and shop other people's things and buy from there - global AH. When they added player cities, if you were a trader you could create your own vendor and place them within buildings you owned and visitors to your city could browse and buy from them. They changed the global AH to where it would list all the items from the player vendors. You could browse from that vendor in the main cities, but you couldn't buy from it. Instead it gave you a waypoint to the player vendor it was on, It would put a waypoint on your map so you could travel to that city and buy from the vendor (and hey, while you're here, browse all these others hint hint wink wink).

I'd like to see something like that. Where each major city has a trader NPC, or the banker since everything else is tied to them already, lists all the items from the traders in the zone and lets you browse from there. If you want to buy it tells you where to go to get it (and hey, while you're here, browse all these others hint hint wink wink). That way it would limit the impact of the major hubs like they currently do, the out of the way traders will have their things seen too, one stop for shoppers (at least per zone), promotes better market stability, and still gets people out and about in an Elder Scrolls merchant environment (there's no internet in Tamriel). It might even go a little way to do something about the bidding wars for traders too. A better interface would inherently be necessary also.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

ereboz wrote: »

I would love a global auction house. Sucks needing to be in multiple trading guilds, pay to stay in the guild, then sometimes lose trader for a week and have *** sales. Not to mention running around 10 different zones (load screens) to find good prices

The global "search" function could be useful (so you could just press a button, type idk lets say "apples" - and it will show you where you can buy them, at what zone, name of trading guild, price etc. )

The other good thing could be a some way to have limited numbers of sales & purchase through that system - whatever it will be through a HUD UI or just a special NPC vendor - (lets say 3 item you can sell and 3 items you can buy per week). That way current trading guild Would not lost its position and remained significant.

btw. keep in mind that "auction house" (the one in which you put a starting price and the one who pays more wins) could be easily exploited. There was this issue (in WoW I think) were all items were bought by rich guild owners and then sold again with rigged, ridiculous high prices. So that is why it should not be an "auction house" - but rather a sale with fixed, unchanged price.

Turelus · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ereboz wrote: »

I would love a global auction house. Sucks needing to be in multiple trading guilds, pay to stay in the guild, then sometimes lose trader for a week and have *** sales. Not to mention running around 10 different zones (load screens) to find good prices

The global "search" function could be useful (so you could just press a button, type idk lets say "apples" - and it will show you where you can buy them, at what zone, name of trading guild, price etc. )

I would argue against price being listed, as this eliminates a lot of the leg room and reward for checking things out yourself to get good deals/trades.

If the game had a slower travel system like EVE Online I would be fine with price listing as then it's cost vs time of travel but with this it would be everyone simply having far too broad access to the information.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Why would MM be boned, it will just be the same exact prices as it would now if they had a centralized market, just means you can buy stuff faster without having to waste 95% of your in game time.

Doubt it, if Swtor can do it anyone can

because your time is more valuable than that of those who like the "commerce" aspect of this game? SWTOR is not the first MMO with an auction house btw...and not a good game to use as an example. In fact, its a pretty bad game.

Some people enjoy this game because of its unique, non cookie cutter features

They say they like it for the novelty. Then they use a bunch of third party software and websites like Tamriel Trade Center as a proxy for a global auction house system.

"The guild trader system is awesome if you download [insert laundry list of addons], and go to Tamriel Trade Center [and turn guild traders into a clunky cumbersome global auction house]!"

Imagine if Zenimax incorporated the addons and TTC functionality into ESO.

But...let's just ignore the fact that people defend this crappy guild trader system because using unofficial third party software isn't at all defeating the purpose of the guild trader system to begin with.

Honestly, the ONLY reason all of these websites and addons exist is BECAUSE the guild trader system is a crappy system. If the people that defended it didn't have access to the third party software, 9 out of 10 of them would be begging for a global auction house.

Turelus · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Why would MM be boned, it will just be the same exact prices as it would now if they had a centralized market, just means you can buy stuff faster without having to waste 95% of your in game time.

Doubt it, if Swtor can do it anyone can

because your time is more valuable than that of those who like the "commerce" aspect of this game? SWTOR is not the first MMO with an auction house btw...and not a good game to use as an example. In fact, its a pretty bad game.

Some people enjoy this game because of its unique, non cookie cutter features

They say they like it for the novelty. Then they use a bunch of third party software and websites like Tamriel Trade Center as a proxy for a global auction house system.

"The guild trader system is awesome if you download [insert laundry list of addons], and go to Tamriel Trade Center [and turn guild traders into a clunky cumbersome global auction house]!"

Imagine if Zenimax incorporated the addons and TTC functionality into ESO.

But...let's just ignore the fact that people defend this crappy guild trader system because using unofficial third party software isn't at all defeating the purpose of the guild trader system to begin with.

Honestly, the ONLY reason all of these websites and addons exist is BECAUSE the guild trader system is a crappy system. If the people that defended it didn't have access to the third party software, 9 out of 10 of them would be begging for a global auction house.

I agree with you somewhat.

The add-ons address major pain points in the system. ZOS didn't design the UI to be horrible to try and keep pricing fair, they just outright design awful UI for a trade system.

I wish ZOS would have internal market value tracking and search tools like the add-ons allow. I want to see a more competitive market because it benefits everyone.

However I don't think taking all the traders out and having a system like a normal AH (with ESO UI) really benefits the game. Not as much as a new revision and update on the current system to address its main points would.

Elsonso · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

They say they like it for the novelty. Then they use a bunch of third party software and websites like Tamriel Trade Center as a proxy for a global auction house system.

"The guild trader system is awesome if you download [insert laundry list of addons], and go to Tamriel Trade Center [and turn guild traders into a clunky cumbersome global auction house]!"

The only addon that really improves how the guild trader system works for buyers are ones like Awesome Guild Store that allow more detailed search, including text search, and allow players to save that information. These are hacks and would work much better if these advanced searches went to the server, rather than just filtering what we see.

For sellers, Master Merchant, which provides an easy way of collecting the sales log information so that it is easier to find out what stuff is actually selling for. People think that this is "market control" but what it really provides a tool that tells what average prices are, and can tell whether things are trending up or down. This is critical for finding a price that will sell without leaving too much gold on the table.

Add-ons that scan the guild stores for inventory and current prices are a waste of time, and doubly so if this information is uploaded to some central website. The first function is simply better done with a proper search, the second function is just a waste of time for reasons that are obvious.

Users, particularly on console, could benefit immediately from ZOS including two search features into the guild store interface. The first would be more granular searches, including text search, the actually goes to the server to perform the search and does not just filter the data. Right now, this filter results in unnecessary data transfer between the server and client.

The second would be a search feature that could be used to find information about sale prices for an item from the guild store logs so that people don't have to list the log in reverse chronological order. This would help people set prices when they sell stuff. For a new trader, it is quite a deal trying to figure out what something is worth (what it is selling for), and this can help.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

Also even if people decide to inflate server wide markets which they do in every mmo, most still do it here as well its no different. Everyone now a days is just used to a centralized market / auction house because they don't want to spend 95% of there game time every night looking for something they want and hoping it's still on that vendor.

You can also deflate the inflated prices as well I've seen it done in WoW, Swtor, FF14 in almost every major MMO.

IE: Someone bought up all gems in WoW once and relisted for 300% markup price but his never sold at all so you see tons more listing at 50% normal price again.

It is indeed possible to get rid of inflation by doing that.

AlnilamE · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Why would MM be boned, it will just be the same exact prices as it would now if they had a centralized market, just means you can buy stuff faster without having to waste 95% of your in game time.

Doubt it, if Swtor can do it anyone can

because your time is more valuable than that of those who like the "commerce" aspect of this game? SWTOR is not the first MMO with an auction house btw...and not a good game to use as an example. In fact, its a pretty bad game.

Some people enjoy this game because of its unique, non cookie cutter features

They say they like it for the novelty. Then they use a bunch of third party software and websites like Tamriel Trade Center as a proxy for a global auction house system.

"The guild trader system is awesome if you download [insert laundry list of addons], and go to Tamriel Trade Center [and turn guild traders into a clunky cumbersome global auction house]!"

Imagine if Zenimax incorporated the addons and TTC functionality into ESO.

But...let's just ignore the fact that people defend this crappy guild trader system because using unofficial third party software isn't at all defeating the purpose of the guild trader system to begin with.

Honestly, the ONLY reason all of these websites and addons exist is BECAUSE the guild trader system is a crappy system. If the people that defended it didn't have access to the third party software, 9 out of 10 of them would be begging for a global auction house.

I like the system for the novelty. If I want to buy something, I set myself a price range and go shopping.

I have a general idea of what's easy to find and what I'll have to search many zones for, and I decide if my time is worth more than my gold accordingly.

I do use AwesomeGuildStore, and I think ZOS should definitely incorporate its function into the Trader UI. The vanilla version is very aggravating, for sure. I also use Master Merchant, but mostly because I love watching the price curves on stuff when something in the game changes. I don't think that its use is mandatory unless you are a power seller (which I'm not), though I guess console players should probably have that option, so I wouldn't object to it being incorporated as an optional feature.

I was not aware of the third party site until you mentioned it in another thread (I think it was you, at least), and I really don't think it adds anything for me personally.

And no, even if these things were not available, I still wouldn't care for a global AH. I have one in Black Desert and it's both annoying and boring.

In a game like ESO, where you can easily find whatever you want yourself, I don't think a global AH would be good for the game, unless they really nerfed drop rates into the ground. And I really wouldn't want that.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

They say they like it for the novelty. Then they use a bunch of third party software and websites like Tamriel Trade Center as a proxy for a global auction house system.

"The guild trader system is awesome if you download [insert laundry list of addons], and go to Tamriel Trade Center [and turn guild traders into a clunky cumbersome global auction house]!"

The only addon that really improves how the guild trader system works for buyers are ones like Awesome Guild Store that allow more detailed search, including text search, and allow players to save that information. These are hacks and would work much better if these advanced searches went to the server, rather than just filtering what we see.

For sellers, Master Merchant, which provides an easy way of collecting the sales log information so that it is easier to find out what stuff is actually selling for. People think that this is "market control" but what it really provides a tool that tells what average prices are, and can tell whether things are trending up or down. This is critical for finding a price that will sell without leaving too much gold on the table.

Add-ons that scan the guild stores for inventory and current prices are a waste of time, and doubly so if this information is uploaded to some central website. The first function is simply better done with a proper search, the second function is just a waste of time for reasons that are obvious.

Users, particularly on console, could benefit immediately from ZOS including two search features into the guild store interface. The first would be more granular searches, including text search, the actually goes to the server to perform the search and does not just filter the data. Right now, this filter results in unnecessary data transfer between the server and client.

The second would be a search feature that could be used to find information about sale prices for an item from the guild store logs so that people don't have to list the log in reverse chronological order. This would help people set prices when they sell stuff. For a new trader, it is quite a deal trying to figure out what something is worth (what it is selling for), and this can help.

You are really downplaying the role that addons and TTC have in this equation. These things broke the guild trader system by creating a limited access global auction house.

The guild trader system is, by design, a massive time-sink. It is also "supposed" to create intrigue amongst trading guilds so they will have trade-wars with each other through market research, spying, and undercutting.

The guild trader system was setup to promote a meta-game of guild vs guild economic warfare. Instead, what has happened, is people use these addons to track stock, prices, and sales numbers then put ALL the information out there for everyone to see. That completely defeats the purpose of having a system that is supposed to be a cutthroat economic competition where only the most studious traders maintain control of their kiosks because they make the most money.

We now have equalized sale prices across the board, but only players who are willing to pour time into a guild will have the ability to sell on the auction house, and only certain guilds will have access to the most lucrative kiosk locations, drastically reducing the likelihood that they will be dislodged from their locations because they're the only ones that can afford to win the bid on a weekly basis.

TL;DR: the entire economy of the game is now being controlled by a very small number of people who took advantage of game breaking third party software.

The guild trader system could have had the potential to be interesting, but as usual, a bunch of a-holes decided to be "smart" by creating tools that completely destroyed the potential gameplay elements.

Is that really the fault of the players, though? No.

It's the fault of the developers because the guild trader system system is vulnerable to that kind of manipulation and they refuse to understand human nature.

CapnPhoton · March 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

CapnPhoton wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

CapnPhoton wrote: »

Having played 2 other games with just one worldwide auction system, this is better. In the worldwide system, items all in 1 place are so saturated that you make pennies for things and it's hardly worth the trouble. It is quite easy to join a trading guild. I am in 3.

There is a certain realism to the current system. Do you see any computers, or department stores around? It is all representative of a market economy that is not technology based. I'm not sure what the real issue is, having to travel around places like one would in a time period like this, or the fact that they can't have instant gratification spoon feeding.

For casual players there could be an auction house with limited selling space and more expensive to use. That would probably fit into the current economic model.

Price isnt important or even relavent in this arguement, convenience is the only commodity "we" care about.

Wal-mart sells tvs for 400$ best buy sells them 4 300$ but if best buy isnt around you and theirs ten wal marts in your city where are you going?

Convenience beats price 9-10 times unless your on a strict budget.

Lots of Console players dont have the time 2 log on go to 20 different guild traders to find springgians ring then try to run a dungeon all in a hour or 2 before they half 2 sleep. Let alone join a top trading guild with 5k weekly fees and pray their stuff sales and they make their money back

I think the emphasis of the OP was on casual players just wanting to sell a few things once in a while. I am in this situation as well where I don't want to pay a trading guild lots of money just to sell the 5-10 things at a time I want to list. The 3 trading guilds I am in have no fees. One had a trader either in Rawl'Kha or Daggerfall, depending on the week and sales are good. They are out there even for the casual. You just have to find them.

The current system is just an all out designed mess tbh, guild monopolies everywhere especially in the demanding zones that require you to make tons of coin per week. I guess the ones defending the current system do indeed play 24/7 tbh.

As I mentioned, I am casual, but I am in 3 trading guilds without fees. One is a prime location. They are out there. I play usually less than 10 hours per week, some weeks far less, not 24/7.

Elsonso · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TL;DR: the entire economy of the game is now being controlled by a very small number of people who took advantage of game breaking third party software.

Nope.

Kay1 · March 2017

Hahaha there's people actually trying to make everyone believe that AH can manipulate the economy hahahhaa.

Big guilds, very big ones tend to make a reunion every time a patch is about to come, they go and buy every single Wax, Rosin, Temper, Reagents, Kutas, ect.. from the others traders that are not in their Alliance of Guilds, they gather more than 1k of each.

Then they take the best traders in the game and with their secondary guilds they take the others traders in the same zone, they put 1-3 of those items at per example 15k the Temper while the main guild put them at 10k and they have on sell more than 50 of those so basically all the best trading zones such as capitals from every Alliance, Craglorn and Rawlkha have indeed 1 real trader that are the from the big guils while the others traders are secondary guilds with few people inside from the big guild, so what happens there? No one can change the economy of those zones because they have their trader there and the rest of traders are just to prevent others guild to change the price by purchasing that trading spot.

I'm surprised everyone here is trying to act lile they know everything and no one has pointed this out, I'm pretty sure experts trading players already knows about this but no one talks about it because who cares right?

srfrogg23 · March 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TL;DR: the entire economy of the game is now being controlled by a very small number of people who took advantage of game breaking third party software.

Nope.

Yup.

Turelus · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TL;DR: the entire economy of the game is now being controlled by a very small number of people who took advantage of game breaking third party software.

Nope.

Yup.

Would you care to give some evidence?

I hear this every thread "the rich few control the game", "the whole system is rigged to keep the little guy down", "only massive guilds make sales" and no one ever seems to be able to provide any evidence.

Where's I can point you to an example right now of how the system is still working for new players.

This is a guild I joined last week at 24 members, they now have 74 members and plenty of room for invites.
Their donations/tax is optional, you won't be kicked for not contributing.
They have a vendor in an outline area.
They have made 142k of sales since the last reset of my MM (Sunday).

Images as evidence

So please before people continue these arguments give some evidence of the fact, I can do so to show you it's working right now for new guilds and players.

If you just hate the system say you hate the system, but stop making up myths legends and false statements to back up your displeasure of the system.

KochDerDamonen · March 2017

Kodrac wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

The selling side fails on player apathy and I don't think we should throw away a system because players can't be bothered to learn it. We would be gutting a lot of ESO if that was the case.

Part of that problem is the the try hards and the sheep that follow them are only selling endgame meta and nothing else. You really do have to go out of your away - away from the hubs - to find someone selling anything other than cp160 mats or gear that's not Spriggan's.

@Kodrac I've bought plenty of gear sets from Hub vendors, that are not very good sets. Endgame? Yeah, it's quite hard to cobble together a set of items of a certain level without doing literally only that and possibly across multiple characters. middling vet ranks and low levels just... don't sell well enough to make up for the effort in putting them together. Alternatively, lower level armors crafted is much much easier to produce but the price point they would actually sell at isn't worth the vendor slot for most people that have slots in these major sale guilds.

O-oh sorry I mean, you're right shepard, those sheep over there are so dum haha *baaa*

Kodrac · March 2017

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

O-oh sorry I mean, you're right shepard, those sheep over there are so dum haha *baaa*

@KochDerDamonen Cute.

It's a problem within the game atm. Look at the pve zergs and the dolmen farmers. They're not farming for themselves to use, they're farming to get something to sell. Nothing else sells. There's too much of a narrow focus to builds. There's not enough of build variety for there to be any use of the gears out there. There's plenty of gear variety but because of the narrow focus on builds they don't sell. So it's not just the trade system it's multiple factors. The whole narrow focus they're going for is showing cracks and its compounding trading, among other things.

EDIT: damn HTML

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TL;DR: the entire economy of the game is now being controlled by a very small number of people who took advantage of game breaking third party software.

Nope.

Yup.

Would you care to give some evidence?

I hear this every thread "the rich few control the game", "the whole system is rigged to keep the little guy down", "only massive guilds make sales" and no one ever seems to be able to provide any evidence.

Where's I can point you to an example right now of how the system is still working for new players.
This is a guild I joined last week at 24 members, they now have 74 members and plenty of room for invites.

Their donations/tax is optional, you won't be kicked for not contributing.

They have a vendor in an outline area.

They have made 142k of sales since the last reset of my MM (Sunday).

Images as evidence

So please before people continue these arguments give some evidence of the fact, I can do so to show you it's working right now for new guilds and players.

If you just hate the system say you hate the system, but stop making up myths legends and false statements to back up your displeasure of the system.

Is this picture supposed to prove that this applies to everyone? Your evidence isn't any better than mine.

That is just one guild. That has had a kiosk. For a week.

It also doesn't address the fact that people use things like TTC ad nauseum to establish baseline prices across the board; turning the whole thing into a global auction house where access to selling is limited by guild membership.

I may not have a quick picture to flash in front of your face as evidence, but you're not proving that I am wrong with this either.

The ingame economy is controlled by people who have the lowest prices. Everyone uses those prices because things like TTC make those prices known to everyone. Guilds with a kiosk in the most high traffic areas stay there due to sales volume.

The ONLY difference between the guild trader system and a global auction house is the fact that you have to be in a guild to sell stuff thanks to the overuse of third party software.

Besides, I never at any point tried to claim that the players were responsible for this problem, let alone "trying to keep the little guy down". That's silly.

It's Zenimax' game and they're ultimately responsible for the vulnerabilities and loopholes found in the guild trader system. The system is susceptible to this kind of manipulation. Players are just being players.

Churga_Hral · March 2017

There's no internet in Tamriel, so it doesn't make sense to have a global auction-house.

Plus they only have ships and carts for shipping. They don't even have a railroad system (unless the Dwemer built an underground system that I don't know about yet).

srfrogg23 · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TL;DR: the entire economy of the game is now being controlled by a very small number of people who took advantage of game breaking third party software.

Nope.

Yup.

Would you care to give some evidence?

I hear this every thread "the rich few control the game", "the whole system is rigged to keep the little guy down", "only massive guilds make sales" and no one ever seems to be able to provide any evidence.

Where's I can point you to an example right now of how the system is still working for new players.
This is a guild I joined last week at 24 members, they now have 74 members and plenty of room for invites.

Their donations/tax is optional, you won't be kicked for not contributing.

They have a vendor in an outline area.

They have made 142k of sales since the last reset of my MM (Sunday).

Images as evidence

So please before people continue these arguments give some evidence of the fact, I can do so to show you it's working right now for new guilds and players.

If you just hate the system say you hate the system, but stop making up myths legends and false statements to back up your displeasure of the system.

Is this picture supposed to prove that this applies to everyone? Your evidence isn't any better than mine.

That is just one guild. That has had a kiosk. For a week.

It also doesn't address the fact that people use things like TTC ad nauseum to establish baseline prices across the board; turning the whole thing into a global auction house where access to selling is limited by guild membership.

I may not have a quick picture to flash in front of your face as evidence, but you're not proving that I am wrong with this either.

The ingame economy is controlled by people who have the lowest prices. Everyone uses those prices because things like TTC make those prices known to everyone. Guilds with a kiosk in the most high traffic areas stay there due to sales volume.

The ONLY difference between the guild trader system and a global auction house is the fact that you have to be in a guild to sell stuff thanks to the overuse of third party software.

Besides, I never at any point tried to claim that the players were responsible for this problem, let alone "trying to keep the little guy down". That's silly.

It's Zenimax' game and they're ultimately responsible for the vulnerabilities and loopholes found in the guild trader system. The system is susceptible to this kind of manipulation. Players are just being players.

And all of this brings me to another point:

Since the third party software has basically ruined the whole point to guild traders by making it possible to establish baseline prices throughout the entire game -

Having to be a part of a trading guild just to sell stuff on what is essentially a global auction house now, is just a stupid requirement.

It's dumb. I can't think of a nicer way to put it.

Why should I have to ask if I can be a part of someone else's guild, or run a guild, just so I can put stuff in the auction house?

This is the only MMO I have ever played that has this stupid requirement for using the auction house.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Churga_Hral wrote: »

There's no internet in Tamriel, so it doesn't make sense to have a global auction-house.

Plus they only have ships and carts for shipping. They don't even have a railroad system (unless the Dwemer built an underground system that I don't know about yet).

Heh, they might not have the internet and railroads, but they have plenty of invincible city guards and Wayshrines that allow for instant travel from one side of the continent to the other.

They also have email somehow, and player to player teleportation O_o

srfrogg23 · March 2017

AlnilamE wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Why would MM be boned, it will just be the same exact prices as it would now if they had a centralized market, just means you can buy stuff faster without having to waste 95% of your in game time.

Doubt it, if Swtor can do it anyone can

because your time is more valuable than that of those who like the "commerce" aspect of this game? SWTOR is not the first MMO with an auction house btw...and not a good game to use as an example. In fact, its a pretty bad game.

Some people enjoy this game because of its unique, non cookie cutter features

They say they like it for the novelty. Then they use a bunch of third party software and websites like Tamriel Trade Center as a proxy for a global auction house system.

"The guild trader system is awesome if you download [insert laundry list of addons], and go to Tamriel Trade Center [and turn guild traders into a clunky cumbersome global auction house]!"

Imagine if Zenimax incorporated the addons and TTC functionality into ESO.

But...let's just ignore the fact that people defend this crappy guild trader system because using unofficial third party software isn't at all defeating the purpose of the guild trader system to begin with.

Honestly, the ONLY reason all of these websites and addons exist is BECAUSE the guild trader system is a crappy system. If the people that defended it didn't have access to the third party software, 9 out of 10 of them would be begging for a global auction house.

I like the system for the novelty. If I want to buy something, I set myself a price range and go shopping.

I have a general idea of what's easy to find and what I'll have to search many zones for, and I decide if my time is worth more than my gold accordingly.

I do use AwesomeGuildStore, and I think ZOS should definitely incorporate its function into the Trader UI. The vanilla version is very aggravating, for sure. I also use Master Merchant, but mostly because I love watching the price curves on stuff when something in the game changes. I don't think that its use is mandatory unless you are a power seller (which I'm not), though I guess console players should probably have that option, so I wouldn't object to it being incorporated as an optional feature.

I was not aware of the third party site until you mentioned it in another thread (I think it was you, at least), and I really don't think it adds anything for me personally.

And no, even if these things were not available, I still wouldn't care for a global AH. I have one in Black Desert and it's both annoying and boring.

In a game like ESO, where you can easily find whatever you want yourself, I don't think a global AH would be good for the game, unless they really nerfed drop rates into the ground. And I really wouldn't want that.

You and my wife would get along well when it comes to shopping.

I freaking HATE shopping. Even when I'm buying something for myself, I go into the store, get my stuff, and go home.

So, this activity you find enjoyable, going from vendor to vendor just to see what they have, is precisely the reason for why I want a global auction house.

So I can do a quick search, get what I want, and go back to doing the things I actually find entertaining.

I think shopping is boring.

It's also dumb that I have to be in a guild to just to sell stuff on an auction house.

Guilds are great for real endgame activities like running Trials, but just to sell things on an auction house? No, that's just a dumb arbitrary requirement.

Ozstryker · March 2017

BigBragg wrote: »

The problem with central Auction house systems, is it will make it even easier for those who have millions upon millions of gold to manipulate the market on whatever item they want. This would exacerbate wealth disparity in the game, not diminish it.

Agreed, manipulation like this is prevalent in all other mmo's, i.e someone posts a stack of let's say 100 crafting items @ 1000g.... someone snaps this up, breaks the stack up and sells as individual items for 100g each... this then becomes the norm (or escalates further) as there is no competition keeping prices realistic

Kay1 wrote: »

Rich trading guilds have been running the economy for years they decide everything from the price to which of their guilds will use that trader for this week and they feel very powerful doing it so trust me they will never let this happen and if one day Zenimax decide to finally implement it you will see hundreds and hundreds of threads asking for a removal of auction houses.

When (for example) potatoes cost 10k each the backlash from regular players will be deafening... although "rich guilds" and gold sellers will be laughing all the way to the virtual bank.

Turelus · March 2017

Ozstryker wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Rich trading guilds have been running the economy for years they decide everything from the price to which of their guilds will use that trader for this week and they feel very powerful doing it so trust me they will never let this happen and if one day Zenimax decide to finally implement it you will see hundreds and hundreds of threads asking for a removal of auction houses.

When (for example) potatoes cost 10k each the backlash from regular players will be deafening... although "rich guilds" and gold sellers will be laughing all the way to the virtual bank.

The reason rich guilds are rich is because they know what to actually sell and what the average prices are. They're in competition with each other as well, sure there are some plots and alliances but there is no one person who could control the entire market of the game no matter how much they wished it.

Not that many people can agree for a long time.