Former Subscriber Crafting bag vs. normal Inventory - Inventory NOT drawn from first

rabb1t_ESO · February 2017

PROBLEM: Former subscribers who are crafters will rapidly lose inventory space when crafting.

So I've discovered a huge issue, and skimming around I don't see this brought up since the early discussion on crafting bags.

I am a former subscriber. (As someone unemployed I can only afford this once about every 6-8 months.) I'm fine with not being able to add to my crafting bag. However, stuff in my Inventory is NOT being pulled first for newly crafted items.

Here's the issue (example figures)...

Crafting bag
200 Rubedite Ingot

Inventory
100 Rubedite Ore
100 Rubedite Ingot

Crafting dailies, etc, use 70 Ingots...

Crafting bag
130 Rubedite Ingot

Inventory
100 Rubedite Ore
100 Rubedite Ingot

So here is where the problem comes in; I'm doing daily crafting, as well as a bit of daily farming for that crafting. Since my crafting bag has upwards of more than a thousand of each crafting mat, I'm rapidly losing inventory space because everything I'm gathering is NOT being drained out of my inventory. It's just building up.

This situation is made worse if I'm given materials from someone who wants something crafted, as I'm now losing inventory space, and the items I have for said thing is drawn from the bag.

SOLUTION: Add a toggle option for newly crafted items to be drawn from Inventory first -or- the Crafting Bag first. (With the current default of crafting bag first.)

Yes, I realize this is really no different from not having a crafting bag prior to it's existence. But since it does exist, there should be an option to use those mats first, or use the mats in inventory first, as prior to it's existence inventory would always be cleared. Now it is not being cleared.

Stania · February 2017

I noticed that too, but I think your suggestion is very unlikely to be implemented. They made it this way on purpose so you struggle with your inventory space and be tempted to re-subscribe again soon.

Molydeus · February 2017

Stania wrote: »

I noticed that too, but I think your suggestion is very unlikely to be implemented. They made it this way on purpose so you struggle with your inventory space and be tempted to re-subscribe again soon.

They're in business to make money, and they have no incentive to make life easier for non-subscribers. Sorry to say OP. Your suggestion is pretty good though.

rabb1t_ESO · March 2017

Stania wrote: »

I noticed that too, but I think your suggestion is very unlikely to be implemented. They made it this way on purpose so you struggle with your inventory space and be tempted to re-subscribe again soon.

I'd agree they created the bag to entice people to subscribe, but the current implementation is a vote AGAINST subscribing.

Note the details of before and after.

BEFORE you have subscribed;
20 Ingots in inventory - You craft and use 20 - 0 Ingots in inventory.

Subscribed, now canceled;
50 Ingots in crafting bag, 20 Ingots in inventory - You craft and use 20 - 20 Ingots in inventory AND 30 Ingots in crafting bag.

You've LOST space by subscribing and canceling. Yes, I get they want you to subscribe and keep subscribing, but this is a pretty strong argument for someone to NOT subscribe at all. If you subscribe and cancel you are in a WORSE position for inventory than not subscribing at all.

ELDARTHVADER · March 2017

of course it is that way, they want you to use and or remove craft bag items before anything else.
suck you cant keep eso plus

No you can't toggle back and forth, because again they want you to get the stuff out of craft bag. that simple.

But them are the breaks.

MissBizz · March 2017

It's intentional. Essentially rather than dumping everything back into inventory the second you unsub, they at least let you keep it there until you use it.

They are in the business of making money...

Soella · March 2017

IMHO, it is fair.

Subscribers can use crafting bags normally, none subscribers only have a guarantee that none of their mats disappear when they lost subscription.

Waffennacht · March 2017

Edit: wait, can't you withdraw manually from crafting bag until said item is completely out before you get any more new items?

Jim_Pipp · March 2017

What!! That is a really shady practice.

To everyone saying "they want to make money", sure, but they seem to have made a system that punishes people for unsubscribing and that is a pretty evil business practice.

While it doesn't affect me, and it will only affect a small proportion of players, I think this needs to be fixed as a priority, because it makes zos look very exploitative of their customers. It can't be hard to have a toggle option similar to the one that let's you choose to use crown purchased soul gems instead of in game ones. I am surprised at how angry this has made me.

Jim_Pipp · March 2017

To continue - an ex- subscribers inventory will fill at the normal rate of a non subscribers, but it won't empty in the normal way. There is simply no reason to disadvantage players like that

rabb1t_ESO · March 2017

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

To continue - an ex- subscribers inventory will fill at the normal rate of a non subscribers, but it won't empty in the normal way. There is simply no reason to disadvantage players like that

Exactly. This is the issue some who are replying don't seem to be grasping.

BEFORE subscribing I could gather mats, and the mats would clear from Inventory when used.
AFTER subscribing and canceling this DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Not sure I can make it more clear. Good to see that word is getting out about it.

Again, I'm totally for Zenimax / Bethesda getting money for subs. But I don't think it's fair to punish someone who subed and can't afford to keep subbing. When unsubbed with mats in a bag, used mats should come from inventory FIRST, or at least have a toggle option to choose which bag it comes from.

Even if we consider the fact that I could simply stop harvesting and stuff would not go into my Inventory (though I'd have to destroy what's currently there or move it to an alt), I'd also have to re-spec out of the daily mails where my minions send me mats.

This current implementation is highly undesirable for crafters, and exponentially harmful the more crafting skills one has.

Waffennacht · March 2017

rabb1t_ESO wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

To continue - an ex- subscribers inventory will fill at the normal rate of a non subscribers, but it won't empty in the normal way. There is simply no reason to disadvantage players like that

Exactly. This is the issue some who are replying don't seem to be grasping.

BEFORE subscribing I could gather mats, and the mats would clear from Inventory when used.
AFTER subscribing and canceling this DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Not sure I can make it more clear. Good to see that word is getting out about it.

Again, I'm totally for Zenimax / Bethesda getting money for subs. But I don't think it's fair to punish someone who subed and can't afford to keep subbing. When unsubbed with mats in a bag, used mats should come from inventory FIRST, or at least have a toggle option to choose which bag it comes from.

Even if we consider the fact that I could simply stop harvesting and stuff would not go into my Inventory (though I'd have to destroy what's currently there or move it to an alt), I'd also have to re-spec out of the daily mails where my minions send me mats.

This current implementation is highly undesirable for crafters, and exponentially harmful the more crafting skills one has.

Dude, ok I grasp your issue.

Your solution sucks but here it is:

Before gathering ANY more mats, Manually remove what ever mats you will be collecting OUT of your crafting bag. As you pull them out, you can store them or sell them or whatever,

However once your crafting bag is empty of said mat, you'll then be able to have those used be removed from your inventory.

Yes, it sucks, but it's all I can think of to help.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 2017

rabb1t_ESO wrote: »

Exactly. This is the issue some who are replying don't seem to be grasping.

BEFORE subscribing I could gather mats, and the mats would clear from Inventory when used.
AFTER subscribing and canceling this DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Also ran into this, and it's quite annoying. Zeni needs to realize that players do not live in a box where they control every input; we have options and obligations outside that. While re-subbing might 'fix' the inventory problem temporarily, playing something else does the same thing and costs less. And right now there's no incentive to stick around to over come that--and won't be, for several months.

Decon98b16_ESO · March 2017

code65536 · March 2017

You wouldn't have this problem if you took everything out of your craft bag after you unsub.

Is it annoying? Yes, it is.

But it's fair because all you need to do is to empty out your craft bag, and it'll be as if you had never subbed. You're not being punished because post-unsub is still strictly equal or better than pre-sub, because you have the option of keeping rarely-used mats in perpetual storage. Your post makes it sound like you're worse off than pre-subbing. That's impossible. You're left with a conditional means of storage that you can choose to either keep and use with those conditions, or you can choose to stop using it (by taking everything out) and return everything to exactly the way it was before you had subbed.

If they drew items from inventory before the craft bag, it'll just make people sub for a month, dump everything in, and never sub again until their bags ran empty.

rabb1t_ESO · March 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dude, ok I grasp your issue.
Your solution sucks but here it is:
Before gathering ANY more mats, Manually remove what ever mats you will be collecting OUT of your crafting bag.

That would be a great solution, if it weren't 2-4 spaces of inventory to remove said crafting items. (Yes, I have thousands of some mats.)

code65536 wrote: »

You wouldn't have this problem if you took everything out of your craft bag after you unsub.

Again, no, that doesn't work. I have more than 2000 wood, of that since the un-sub, I've put 2 new stacks in the bank, and have 1.5 new stacks in inventory. If I removed the wood stacks in the crafting bag I'd LOSE an ADDITIONAL 6-7 spaces of inventory.

I also have a ton of ore, several types of enchanting mats that are multi-stack, etc.

If they drew items from inventory before the craft bag, it'll just make people sub for a month, dump everything in, and never sub again until their bags ran empty.

I see your point, but I disagree. As per my original post, I still feel punished for unsubscribing since prior to subscribing my inventory would be cleared as I crafted. Now it is not.

- - -

The 'empty your bag first' solution ONLY would work if the emptied thing was LESS than one stack. Which I can guarantee you if you haven't had a serious crafting character, would not be the case for most components.

Nerouyn · March 2017

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

What!! That is a really shady practice.

Just one of many.

There's someone seriously diabolical in charge of this show.

code65536 · March 2017

rabb1t_ESO wrote: »

Again, no, that doesn't work. I have more than 2000 wood, of that since the un-sub, I've put 2 new stacks in the bank, and have 1.5 new stacks in inventory. If I removed the wood stacks in the crafting bag I'd LOSE an ADDITIONAL 6-7 spaces of inventory.

That's irrelevant. Before the sub, you had nothing in the craft bag. During the sub, you accumulated multiple stacks that, during the sub, you were able to store in the craft bag for convenience. Now that the sub has ended, the continued storage in the craft bag is now conditional.

You're not "losing" any "additional" space. If you emptied your bag, you would be consuming space that you would've consumed if you never had the craft bag to begin with. For the duration of the sub, you had extra storage. After the sub ends, you can either keep that extra storage, with the conditions that you do not like, or you can choose to empty your craft bag and return everything to the way it was before. That's not a "loss". That's a return to the status-quo-ante-craft-bag.

TheStealthDude · March 2017

Look at it this way: do real life storage services let you keep items in their storage units after you stop paying them? No, they do not. You either take them, or they get rid of them one way or another.

ZOS is nicer than them, they let you keep items stored in your craft bag "rent-free". Using those items first is really the only system that makes sense, as you have stopped paying for the privilege of storing your craft materials.

Slurg · March 2017

Well of course, that's the point, no more subscription = no more crafting bag.

At least they let you draw down the mats already in it gradually instead of dumping it all back in your inventory right away, which they would have every right to do if you are no longer subscribing. As has already been pointed out.

It's most unfortunate for ex-subscribers but I do not doubt it is fully intended to get you to renew to avoid losing the space.

davey1107 · March 2017

they seem to have made a system that punishes people for unsubscribing and that is a pretty evil business practice.

Uh...no they haven't. They've given subscribers unlimited space, under the explicit agreement that if you stop subscribing you can keep those items in the bag, but you have to use them first. Don't like it? Don't subscribe. Don't use the bag.

What's the alternative? When your subscription lapses all the items are emailed back to you? They could have done it this way...like how guild stores work. That would have been perfectly fair. But they didn't...they allowed unlimited long-term storage, which honestly is an amazing feature.

What you guys want is the ability to pay $15 and stuff everything into a bag, then go months playing for free until you subscribe again and get to refill the bag. That's understandable, but it really stinks for the rest of us who maintain monthly subscriptions. We do so in order to support the game and encourage new content. We get a few perks for being patrons. I don't mind people playing for free...it's great that someone can buy the disc then play this for thousands of hours with no additional costs. But it's stinky when people want to play for free AND get all the benefits that we subscribers get.

Meryyl · March 2017

I usually pay service providers for service. I expect the service to be discontinued once I stop paying them.

But that's just me.....

Violynne · March 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

They've given subscribers unlimited space, under the explicit agreement that if you stop subscribing you can keep those items in the bag, but you have to use them first.

If you don't mind, allow me to explain how the space system works.

Everyone has access to the craft bag. It's not a separate storage system. Rather, it's just a bank of "slots" which are given attributes and limitations, based on the game settings.

Let's assume a player has 10 inv and 10 bank or 20 slots total. Keeps things simple.

When a player picks up a mat, it's going to be given the attribute "1" or "Player Inventory". If the player stores this into the bank, it's given an attribute of "2". Items carried/stored will be limited to the slots available per attribute.

The item count is then restricted based on the attribute's total, in this case, both can only hold 10 items.

When you hit a crafting station, the game then uses the mats in order of attribute, from lowest to highest. This is why your inventory is taken first, when you're a non-sub.

But things change once you sub. All your items are given a new attribute, let's call it "3", and you now have "unlimited" slots (there's no such thing as unlimited).

Now, when you hit the crafting station, the game simply states "distribute attribute 3 first". The game clears out your inv and bank of mats, more to keep it simpler when programming than for player bonus.

Unfortunately, you're now experiencing the issue where drawing from the "craft bag" (attributes 3) is affecting your limited inventory.

What the game is doing, is it's converting those "3" attributes to "1" or "2" attributes, depending where you store them. Any mats sharing the same ID will be "removed" from the "craft bag" first.

If you expend those mats, you'll see the system goes back to doing what it always has.

You can even test this yourself. Collect mats you do *not* have in the "craft bag": everything works as normal.

Until you deplete mats in the craft bag, it will always draw first. This isn't a punishment. It's designed this way because, programmatically, it makes sense.

"But wouldn't the flag option work?" Not without having to rewrite a great many things within the game, such as Banker dialog boxes, crafting stations, and even the user UI. As difficult as it may be to accept, programmatically, this *is* the best way to do it.

I do believe ZoS should notify people how their inventory will be affected if a subscription is lost.

I know none of this helps you, but unfortunately, you'll have to adapt. If your making things for people, you'll need to do so at no mat cost to them. This will deplete your "craft bag" inventory.

For inventory management, the solution is simple: no longer pick up mats you already have in the "craft bag".

It may take a bit to adjust to, but if you really have 1000s of stuff in your craft bag, then you'll have to manage inventory and make changes.

There is one final option, though this is strictly a mechanic to "reset" your game: grab your mats and sell them. Flush out your craft bag. This carries the understanding you will need to replenish it all over again if you decide to sub after you get back on your feet.

I hope this helps clear things up. I'm sorry you have to learn this the hard way, but I've a feeling a great warrior like yourself will quickly adapt.

BenevolentBowd · March 2017

I have noticed this issue a while ago.

As an ESO+ subscriber, I would prefer that materials be used from my inventory first before my crafting bag because it would make it easier to manage my crafting orders from other players.

I had hoped that if I placed the material from my clients into my character inventory that I wouldn't have to worry about if they gave me enough stuff or not because materials would come from my inventory first. However, this is not the case.

Stuff comes from the crafting bag first. So I still have do all the math to ensure the client has provided enough mats in advance.

My suggestion is to expand the crafting bag settings to include an option to also have auto withdraw option as well.

Katahdin · March 2017

Working as intended.

If you unsub, the game will empty your crafting bag first because you are no longer paying for access to it.

If I rent a storage unit, I get to keep storing stuff in there as long as I pay for it. When I stop paying for it, I need to get my stuff out of there or the storage company will lock it and sell my stuff.

stitchesofdooom · August 2018

I've noticed this same underhanded *** take too. NOBODY would purposely pull from their craft bag first. NOBODY. They're doing this to make yohr inventory fill up faster. Items should be tsken from personal inv FIRST, bank second, CRAFT BAG LAST.

The fact it doesn'g work this way just shows Zenimax's greed.

VaranisArano · August 2018

This impacts everyone who used the the ESO+ trial to stock up on mats. I don't subscribe, I just stock up during the free trials.

I actually really like this, since I can stock up on tons of mats and have the mats for writs pulled straight from the crafting bag. Anything I gather in the interim I can save in storage or sell easily,

So contrary to some of you, I like it the way it is. Moreover, it makes perfect sense as an incentive to resubscribe.

JKorr · August 2018

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

I've noticed this same underhanded *** take too. NOBODY would purposely pull from their craft bag first. NOBODY. They're doing this to make yohr inventory fill up faster. Items should be tsken from personal inv FIRST, bank second, CRAFT BAG LAST.

The fact it doesn'g work this way just shows Zenimax's greed.

"They" are doing this? Someone from ZOS is logging into your account and picking up tons of mats you know you don't have space for?

You got the free trial and large amounts of stuff got moved to the temporarily free storage space. KNOWING that the TEMPORARY TRIAL free storage space would go away when the temporary free trial was over, why on Nirn would you cram more stuff into your personal normal storage, knowing that when the trial time was over, you wouldn't have enough space to get all your stuff back out of the TEMPORARY storage?

I really hope for your sake you never rent a storage locker in the real world. You stop paying for it, the company you rented it from will make all your stored stuff go away [probably by auctioning it off or pitching it in a dumpster] so they can rent the space to someone who pays for it. ZOS doesn't make your stored in the TEMPORARY TRIAL space mats go "poof" when the trial period is over.

Feric51 · August 2018

As much as I detest the Worm Cult and its forum counterparts who revive long dead posts, I will still go ahead and give my opinion on this necro'd thread.

Those who think it's "shady" that inventory is pulled out of your craft bag rather than your inventory when you are not currently subscribed to ESO are looking at ZOS's stance as one of greed, when it actually one of generosity. If they wanted to be greedy, they would either dump all contents of the craft bag into your inventory upon ESO+ cancellation, with any mats unable to be banked or stored on a character lost to Oblivion, or simply cut off access to all the mats in the craft bag (not destroyed, just unavailable to access) until you resubscribed.

Like @VaranisArano stated. Use the craft bag to accumulate a massive stockpile of mats, then don't harvest any more until you burn through that cached supply. If you are forcibly compelled to harvest every node you walk past, then that it your own mental hurdle you'll have to deal with if inventory management becomes an issue. Don't put it on ZOS.

Hokiewa · August 2018

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

I've noticed this same underhanded *** take too. NOBODY would purposely pull from their craft bag first. NOBODY. They're doing this to make yohr inventory fill up faster. Items should be tsken from personal inv FIRST, bank second, CRAFT BAG LAST.

The fact it doesn'g work this way just shows Zenimax's greed.

It's always somebody else's greed when somebody doesn't want to pay for something.....funny how that works....You want the benefit of an item that costs money for you to access, then pay for it, otherwise you literally have no argument.

Sparr0w · August 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

As much as I detest the Worm Cult and it's forum counterparts who revive long dead posts, I will still go ahead and give my opinion on this necro'd thread.

Those who think it's "shady" that inventory is pulled out of your craft bag rather than your inventory when you are not currently subscribed to ESO are looking at ZOS's stance as one of greed, when it actually one of generosity. If they wanted to be greedy, they would either dump all contents of the craft bag into your inventory upon ESO+ cancellation, with any mats unable to be banked or stored on a character lost to Oblivion, or simply cut off access to all the mats in the craft bag (not destroyed, just unavailable to access) until you resubscribed.

Like @VaranisArano stated. Use the craft bag to accumulate a massive stockpile of mats, then don't harvest any more until you burn through that cached supply. If you are forcibly compelled to harvest every node you walk past, then that it your own mental hurdle you'll have to deal with if inventory management becomes an issue. Don't put it on ZOS.

Pretty much ^