Lokey0024 wrote: »

I say remove stealth mechanic for all classes entirely from the game. NB should be the only one able to stealth without a potion. It is much to powerful of a game mechanic for every class to have access to without class specific abilities or a CD like potions.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

SupremeTravie wrote: »

NB is mostly an offensive class. They have less survivalbility than rest of the classes. Most cases when an NB is caught out of stealth they die rather quickly.I'm assuming you just cannot catch them and they put the jukes on you.Plus it's a class based around stealth. You want to take that away from a key role of the class. What sense does that make? There are many counters to gankers. Plenty of forums to read about it. I suggest read up man.

Ah the other often-paraded bit of nonsense in these threads, that somehow nightblade is a disadvantaged class that lacks defense, and so it must be able to disappear because fighting someone who can actually target you is too difficult for such a weak class. Give me a break.

Ganking is toxic. It leads to everyone rolling tanks because they are sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade. It also promotes zerging because people who don't want to be tanks are moving in packs because it makes them less of a target. It promotes people to mindlessly counter-siege from a keep wall instead of coming out for real fight. There is nothing good at all positive about full-timer gankers with gank builds. They do not contribute anything to the gameplay value, and they are mostly just a nuisance and source for harassment to people who are actually trying to pvp.

I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability. They want their high burst ganking build, and they want it to be even more survivable than a well-rounded or even a tank build. They actually want to be able to do massive burst and then completely disengage and get away without anyone being able to fight them back. There is nothing competitive about that kind of gameplay, and there is certainly no sportsmanship involved.

I have to disagree.
Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.

Nightblade has .... umm, ummm, ummm Mirage. That's it. Mirage. Not sure if there's any stamblade using Mirage instead of Shuffle. There's just no way to build towards survivability for a nightblade, unless you run Troll King. But Troll King itself is cancerous.

Oh, and rolling tanks has nothing to do with "sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade".
People will still zerg no matter what. It has nothing to do with ganking.
People counter-siege from keep wall because if they go down they will get zerged, it has nothing to do with stamblades.
Nothing sportmanship in PvP openworld. Is zerging sportmanship? Nah. People still do it.

There are certain combinations of setups that make ganking toxic. Ganking itself is fine. There are counterplays to ganking if the setup is not toxic: block or dodge their Incap, slot Mageslight, use your situational awareness (explained above).

NB have many sources of mitigation.

For one, nb have the major armor buffs as a passive freeing up a skill slot other classes can't do.

Cloak for one. Even if you don't use it for invisibility to reset a fight, reposition, suppress a dot etc, the morph that gives 8% damage reduction is huge. As a frame of reference, you mitigate 1% of damage with roughly 650-700 from armor resistances. So 8% reduction is equivaliant to about 5600 armor resist. Plus it also procs the major armor mitigation. So just from cloak you can mitigate roughly %15 of damage before factoring in the other perks you get from cloak.

There is also fear which procs the armor buffs and mitigates damage by 15%. When being hit by multiple people it benefits are even better. Combine cloak and fear and you have about 30% mitigation which is perfect to go defensive with.

As you mentioned we have a class dodge chance which other classes don't have. Shuffle is not the best choice for a mag build typically, so having a mag one is great. I use it on my stam blade because I like the mag dump and speed while in stealth. Plus the passives are nice.

There is also shades with 15% mitigation and teleworking out of danger. Healing received for slotting siphoning abilities. Sap essence. Swallow soul. Healing ult. Mitigation ult. Refreshing path. Not to mention the mobility nb have.

The tools are there. You just need to utilize them better. Mitigation does not come as easy as other classes, but that does not mean they are non existent. In fact, I enjoy that nb can be more challenging to play from a mitigation standpoint.

Let's also not forget the other sources of mitigation out there in skill lines to all. Not everything has to be tucked away into a nice little toolkit for each class. What would be the point of weapons then.

lackey was talking about stamblade, so I was also talking about stamblade. A aagblade can be built as a sap tank, I have one myself, so of course survivalbility is good.

Major armor buff NB has is nothing compared to other classes.

Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.

A part from resistance buff that everyone else has, stamblade only has Mirage, while everyone else has Shuffle. For a stamblade, cloak is the only way. And it doesn't work most of the time.

P/S: I also use Mirage on my stamblade but most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

SupremeTravie wrote: »

NB is mostly an offensive class. They have less survivalbility than rest of the classes. Most cases when an NB is caught out of stealth they die rather quickly.I'm assuming you just cannot catch them and they put the jukes on you.Plus it's a class based around stealth. You want to take that away from a key role of the class. What sense does that make? There are many counters to gankers. Plenty of forums to read about it. I suggest read up man.

Ah the other often-paraded bit of nonsense in these threads, that somehow nightblade is a disadvantaged class that lacks defense, and so it must be able to disappear because fighting someone who can actually target you is too difficult for such a weak class. Give me a break.

Ganking is toxic. It leads to everyone rolling tanks because they are sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade. It also promotes zerging because people who don't want to be tanks are moving in packs because it makes them less of a target. It promotes people to mindlessly counter-siege from a keep wall instead of coming out for real fight. There is nothing good at all positive about full-timer gankers with gank builds. They do not contribute anything to the gameplay value, and they are mostly just a nuisance and source for harassment to people who are actually trying to pvp.

I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability. They want their high burst ganking build, and they want it to be even more survivable than a well-rounded or even a tank build. They actually want to be able to do massive burst and then completely disengage and get away without anyone being able to fight them back. There is nothing competitive about that kind of gameplay, and there is certainly no sportsmanship involved.

I have to disagree.
Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.

Nightblade has .... umm, ummm, ummm Mirage. That's it. Mirage. Not sure if there's any stamblade using Mirage instead of Shuffle. There's just no way to build towards survivability for a nightblade, unless you run Troll King. But Troll King itself is cancerous.

Oh, and rolling tanks has nothing to do with "sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade".
People will still zerg no matter what. It has nothing to do with ganking.
People counter-siege from keep wall because if they go down they will get zerged, it has nothing to do with stamblades.
Nothing sportmanship in PvP openworld. Is zerging sportmanship? Nah. People still do it.

There are certain combinations of setups that make ganking toxic. Ganking itself is fine. There are counterplays to ganking if the setup is not toxic: block or dodge their Incap, slot Mageslight, use your situational awareness (explained above).

NB have many sources of mitigation.

For one, nb have the major armor buffs as a passive freeing up a skill slot other classes can't do.

Cloak for one. Even if you don't use it for invisibility to reset a fight, reposition, suppress a dot etc, the morph that gives 8% damage reduction is huge. As a frame of reference, you mitigate 1% of damage with roughly 650-700 from armor resistances. So 8% reduction is equivaliant to about 5600 armor resist. Plus it also procs the major armor mitigation. So just from cloak you can mitigate roughly %15 of damage before factoring in the other perks you get from cloak.

There is also fear which procs the armor buffs and mitigates damage by 15%. When being hit by multiple people it benefits are even better. Combine cloak and fear and you have about 30% mitigation which is perfect to go defensive with.

As you mentioned we have a class dodge chance which other classes don't have. Shuffle is not the best choice for a mag build typically, so having a mag one is great. I use it on my stam blade because I like the mag dump and speed while in stealth. Plus the passives are nice.

There is also shades with 15% mitigation and teleworking out of danger. Healing received for slotting siphoning abilities. Sap essence. Swallow soul. Healing ult. Mitigation ult. Refreshing path. Not to mention the mobility nb have.

The tools are there. You just need to utilize them better. Mitigation does not come as easy as other classes, but that does not mean they are non existent. In fact, I enjoy that nb can be more challenging to play from a mitigation standpoint.

Let's also not forget the other sources of mitigation out there in skill lines to all. Not everything has to be tucked away into a nice little toolkit for each class. What would be the point of weapons then.

lackey was talking about stamblade, so I was also talking about stamblade. A aagblade can be built as a sap tank, I have one myself, so of course survivalbility is good.

Major armor buff NB has is nothing compared to other classes.

Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.

A part from resistance buff that everyone else has, stamblade only has Mirage, while everyone else has Shuffle. For a stamblade, cloak is the only way. And it doesn't work most of the time.

P/S: I also use Mirage on my stamblade but most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.

Major armor buffs are same for all classes. They give same bonus so you can't say others are better. Also, as I stated already, nb don't have to waste a skill slot on getting it like every other class. We get an extra skill slot which is huge.

Are you saying I am not higher skilled cause I don't use shuffle??? If so that is a false assumption.

Also, you don't need to be a sap tank to have aurvivability. Those abilities are available for all builds.

You also seemed to gloss over every other forms of mitigation I mentioned thatany other classes do not have access to. Additionally, you have to realize that a nb has higher burst damage then other classes which is why they have less easy mode survival skills. It is a trade off.

Again, by using cloak with the mitigation you get something from cloak even when people countered your cloak.

Yes it's the same for all classes, yes it saves one skill slot but the point is, a stamblade cannot slot anything else to boost their survivability. Again, it's the point, cloak is the only way to boost stamblade's survivalbility. Lackey said "I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability.", and I disagree with him because of that. As I said, "For a stamblade, cloak is the only way".

Streak + Dark Deal/Igneous Shield (w/Major Mending)/Cleanse (w/ Major Mending) + Restoring Focus > tiny minor mitigation.

No, I said "most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.", I don't say people who use Mirage aren't highly skilled players. The point is that Mirage is not a big deal when most higher skilled stamblades prefer Shuffle.

You owe me a build of a stamblade with survivability without using cloak :P

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

SupremeTravie wrote: »

NB is mostly an offensive class. They have less survivalbility than rest of the classes. Most cases when an NB is caught out of stealth they die rather quickly.I'm assuming you just cannot catch them and they put the jukes on you.Plus it's a class based around stealth. You want to take that away from a key role of the class. What sense does that make? There are many counters to gankers. Plenty of forums to read about it. I suggest read up man.

Ah the other often-paraded bit of nonsense in these threads, that somehow nightblade is a disadvantaged class that lacks defense, and so it must be able to disappear because fighting someone who can actually target you is too difficult for such a weak class. Give me a break.

Ganking is toxic. It leads to everyone rolling tanks because they are sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade. It also promotes zerging because people who don't want to be tanks are moving in packs because it makes them less of a target. It promotes people to mindlessly counter-siege from a keep wall instead of coming out for real fight. There is nothing good at all positive about full-timer gankers with gank builds. They do not contribute anything to the gameplay value, and they are mostly just a nuisance and source for harassment to people who are actually trying to pvp.

I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability. They want their high burst ganking build, and they want it to be even more survivable than a well-rounded or even a tank build. They actually want to be able to do massive burst and then completely disengage and get away without anyone being able to fight them back. There is nothing competitive about that kind of gameplay, and there is certainly no sportsmanship involved.

I have to disagree.
Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.

Nightblade has .... umm, ummm, ummm Mirage. That's it. Mirage. Not sure if there's any stamblade using Mirage instead of Shuffle. There's just no way to build towards survivability for a nightblade, unless you run Troll King. But Troll King itself is cancerous.

Oh, and rolling tanks has nothing to do with "sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade".
People will still zerg no matter what. It has nothing to do with ganking.
People counter-siege from keep wall because if they go down they will get zerged, it has nothing to do with stamblades.
Nothing sportmanship in PvP openworld. Is zerging sportmanship? Nah. People still do it.

There are certain combinations of setups that make ganking toxic. Ganking itself is fine. There are counterplays to ganking if the setup is not toxic: block or dodge their Incap, slot Mageslight, use your situational awareness (explained above).

NB have many sources of mitigation.

For one, nb have the major armor buffs as a passive freeing up a skill slot other classes can't do.

Cloak for one. Even if you don't use it for invisibility to reset a fight, reposition, suppress a dot etc, the morph that gives 8% damage reduction is huge. As a frame of reference, you mitigate 1% of damage with roughly 650-700 from armor resistances. So 8% reduction is equivaliant to about 5600 armor resist. Plus it also procs the major armor mitigation. So just from cloak you can mitigate roughly %15 of damage before factoring in the other perks you get from cloak.

There is also fear which procs the armor buffs and mitigates damage by 15%. When being hit by multiple people it benefits are even better. Combine cloak and fear and you have about 30% mitigation which is perfect to go defensive with.

As you mentioned we have a class dodge chance which other classes don't have. Shuffle is not the best choice for a mag build typically, so having a mag one is great. I use it on my stam blade because I like the mag dump and speed while in stealth. Plus the passives are nice.

There is also shades with 15% mitigation and teleworking out of danger. Healing received for slotting siphoning abilities. Sap essence. Swallow soul. Healing ult. Mitigation ult. Refreshing path. Not to mention the mobility nb have.

The tools are there. You just need to utilize them better. Mitigation does not come as easy as other classes, but that does not mean they are non existent. In fact, I enjoy that nb can be more challenging to play from a mitigation standpoint.

Let's also not forget the other sources of mitigation out there in skill lines to all. Not everything has to be tucked away into a nice little toolkit for each class. What would be the point of weapons then.

lackey was talking about stamblade, so I was also talking about stamblade. A aagblade can be built as a sap tank, I have one myself, so of course survivalbility is good.

Major armor buff NB has is nothing compared to other classes.

Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.

A part from resistance buff that everyone else has, stamblade only has Mirage, while everyone else has Shuffle. For a stamblade, cloak is the only way. And it doesn't work most of the time.

P/S: I also use Mirage on my stamblade but most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.

Major armor buffs are same for all classes. They give same bonus so you can't say others are better. Also, as I stated already, nb don't have to waste a skill slot on getting it like every other class. We get an extra skill slot which is huge.

Are you saying I am not higher skilled cause I don't use shuffle??? If so that is a false assumption.

Also, you don't need to be a sap tank to have aurvivability. Those abilities are available for all builds.

You also seemed to gloss over every other forms of mitigation I mentioned thatany other classes do not have access to. Additionally, you have to realize that a nb has higher burst damage then other classes which is why they have less easy mode survival skills. It is a trade off.

Again, by using cloak with the mitigation you get something from cloak even when people countered your cloak.

Yes it's the same for all classes, yes it saves one skill slot but the point is, a stamblade cannot slot anything else to boost their survivability. Again, it's the point, cloak is the only way to boost stamblade's survivalbility. Lackey said "I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability.", and I disagree with him because of that. As I said, "For a stamblade, cloak is the only way".

Streak + Dark Deal/Igneous Shield (w/Major Mending)/Cleanse (w/ Major Mending) + Restoring Focus > tiny minor mitigation.

No, I said "most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.", I don't say people who use Mirage aren't highly skilled players. The point is that Mirage is not a big deal when most higher skilled stamblades prefer Shuffle.

You owe me a build of a stamblade with survivability without using cloak :P

That's like saying to have a sorc make a survival build without shields or Temps without bol. Doesn't make sense.

JinMori wrote: »

Well 40 k is actually mid high tier, i don't have a video to show you, because my upload speed is absolute trash.
Anyways there are some guys that can do up to 60 k dps sustained.
And usually players who are good in pve are also good in pvp. Why? because a guy who can do 50/60 k dps understands how the game mechanics works, then he just have to apply that to pvp, learn to be a little bit more reactive then in pve and boom you have a good pvper.