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Nightblade ridiculous damage from stealth needs to be removed
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Korinth✭✭✭
Well 40 k is actually mid high tier, i don't have a video to show you, because my upload speed is absolute trash.
Anyways there are some guys that can do up to 60 k dps sustained.
And usually players who are good in pve are also good in pvp. Why? because a guy who can do 50/60 k dps understands how the game mechanics works, then he just have to apply that to pvp, learn to be a little bit more reactive then in pve and boom you have a good pvper.
Holy COW..... I guess I just play enough or have the time to tweak all my gear just so. Heck Im lucky to get 2 Undaunted dailies in a week.
If 40k is Mid high tier.... then what is considered decent DPS? 30k dps???? I have a lot of work to do. The only time I see 30k-40k dps sustained is on mob pulls with lots of AoE.
20 k is considered decent dps 30 k is good, 40 k is very good, 50 k + is excellent.
Ok so Im not too far off then.... at least from decent dps. I do still run some 150 gear as Im upgrading to 160 legendary... and don't run any monster sets (still working on those too...dam ZoS for making the shoulders drop with RNG at the chests...RNG is NOT my friend).
So by the time I get fully geared I should be in that 20k -30k range...at least respectable. I also don't min/max with weapons. I use dual wield daggers and Bow as that is how I like to run...min/max dps be damned. Back a year or so ago a guildie tried to get me to run with dual resto staves...I was like...Im a Nightbalde Assassin... why would I run with Resto staves??? That just ruins the immersion for me.
Edited by Korinth on March 6, 2017 1:10AM -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Well 40 k is actually mid high tier, i don't have a video to show you, because my upload speed is absolute trash.
Anyways there are some guys that can do up to 60 k dps sustained.
And usually players who are good in pve are also good in pvp. Why? because a guy who can do 50/60 k dps understands how the game mechanics works, then he just have to apply that to pvp, learn to be a little bit more reactive then in pve and boom you have a good pvper.
Holy COW..... I guess I just play enough or have the time to tweak all my gear just so. Heck Im lucky to get 2 Undaunted dailies in a week.
If 40k is Mid high tier.... then what is considered decent DPS? 30k dps???? I have a lot of work to do. The only time I see 30k-40k dps sustained is on mob pulls with lots of AoE.
20 k is considered decent dps 30 k is good, 40 k is very good, 50 k + is excellent.
Ok so Im not too far off then.... at least from decent dps. I do still run some 150 gear as Im upgrading to 160 legendary... and don't run any monster sets (still working on those too...dam ZoS for making the shoulders drop with RNG at the chests...RNG is NOT my friend).
So by the time I get fully geared I should be in that 20k -30k range...at least respectable. I also don't min/max with weapons. I use dual wield daggers and Bow as that is how I like to run...min/max dps be damned. Back a year or so ago a guildie tried to get me to run with dual resto staves...I was like...Im a Nightbalde Assassin... why would I run with Resto staves??? That just ruins the immersion for me.
I learned almost all i know about this game from these youtubers, if you wanna check them out: Alcast, deltia, sypher, fengrush and gilliam the rogue. -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unsent.Soul wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »If Nightblades shouldn't gank, then what should they do? That's kinda the class's thing at the moment, especially on the Stamina side. Take that away, and you're left with pretty much nothing but Eternal Hunt builds, which I think is the kind of thing we need to see more often, but not at the expense of making it the only viable build path for Stamblades. As for Magblades, if they can't gank and/or zergbomb, then they're kinda left in the dust as an inferior version of the Sorcerer.
As much as I agree that gankers shouldn't be able to instantly kill everyone, I also think that gutting the primary function of the class in PvP is a really bad move.
I also disagree about where the problem lies. It's not in the Nightblade passives, it's in the Champion system. The Champion system gives them 25% bonus damage straight-up, an extra heap of crit damage, good resistances and resource sustain so they can survive open fights, and a ton more base stats across the board. This gives them preposterous burst damage, while also giving them everything else they need to make their playstyle extremely forgiving; if their ridiculous burst doesn't instagib everything on the business end of their attacks, then they still have the resource sustain and the resistances to either engage their target openly or effortlessly escape to try again later.
The solution for ridiculous builds isn't removing their ability to specialize in their role, it's dealing with the Champion system that's allowing them to remove most of the drawbacks of specializing.
But i never mentioned the nb passive, i think that's ok, the problem is the 250% crouch damage bonus.
1st I have question, from where you have info this is 250% bonus damage from crouch?
2nd, this bonus damage from crouch/stealth is only to 1st hit, so after 1st hit land on you then every next attack without goping again into stealth wont be buffed by this crouch/stealth
1st: gilliam the rogue, medium armor video, around the 20 th minute
2nd: i don't really know about this one, i think it's only the first hit, but you can guess what happens if you charge a 20+ k heavy attack and then simultaneously use surprise attack and a set procs.
Op showing how little they really know on the matter.
Sneak attack, works only behind the target, deals 250 % more damage on the first hit. Of course must be stealthed.
Sounds like you are talking about the stealth crit damage modifier, which triggers when you hit with certain skills from stealth while flanking the target from behind. 250% sounds high but maybe you're right, I don't know the exact percentage.
This kind of attack doesn't really have anything to do with nightblade class, as it's available for every class with certain class and weapon abilities. In fact if NB uses the cloak ability I believe it becomes just regular crit, not the stealth flanking crit.
The damage from this stealth attack is immediately cut in half if you slot radiant magelight, which also prevents the stun.
Another way to counter this is sacrificing your own dps by wearing impen gear or sturdy instead of divines. -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Unsent.Soul wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »If Nightblades shouldn't gank, then what should they do? That's kinda the class's thing at the moment, especially on the Stamina side. Take that away, and you're left with pretty much nothing but Eternal Hunt builds, which I think is the kind of thing we need to see more often, but not at the expense of making it the only viable build path for Stamblades. As for Magblades, if they can't gank and/or zergbomb, then they're kinda left in the dust as an inferior version of the Sorcerer.
As much as I agree that gankers shouldn't be able to instantly kill everyone, I also think that gutting the primary function of the class in PvP is a really bad move.
I also disagree about where the problem lies. It's not in the Nightblade passives, it's in the Champion system. The Champion system gives them 25% bonus damage straight-up, an extra heap of crit damage, good resistances and resource sustain so they can survive open fights, and a ton more base stats across the board. This gives them preposterous burst damage, while also giving them everything else they need to make their playstyle extremely forgiving; if their ridiculous burst doesn't instagib everything on the business end of their attacks, then they still have the resource sustain and the resistances to either engage their target openly or effortlessly escape to try again later.
The solution for ridiculous builds isn't removing their ability to specialize in their role, it's dealing with the Champion system that's allowing them to remove most of the drawbacks of specializing.
But i never mentioned the nb passive, i think that's ok, the problem is the 250% crouch damage bonus.
1st I have question, from where you have info this is 250% bonus damage from crouch?
2nd, this bonus damage from crouch/stealth is only to 1st hit, so after 1st hit land on you then every next attack without goping again into stealth wont be buffed by this crouch/stealth
1st: gilliam the rogue, medium armor video, around the 20 th minute
2nd: i don't really know about this one, i think it's only the first hit, but you can guess what happens if you charge a 20+ k heavy attack and then simultaneously use surprise attack and a set procs.
Op showing how little they really know on the matter.
Sneak attack, works only behind the target, deals 250 % more damage on the first hit. Of course must be stealthed.
Sounds like you are talking about the stealth crit damage modifier, which triggers when you hit with certain skills from stealth while flanking the target from behind. 250% sounds high but maybe you're right, I don't know the exact percentage.
This kind of attack doesn't really have anything to do with nightblade class, as it's available for every class with certain class and weapon abilities. In fact if NB uses the cloak ability I believe it becomes just regular crit, not the stealth flanking crit.
The damage from this stealth attack is immediately cut in half if you slot radiant magelight, which also prevents the stun.
Another way to counter this is sacrificing your own dps by wearing impen gear or sturdy instead of divines.
Yes that's the buff that i think should be removed from the game, in the original post i said nightblade, because they are the class who can use this ability in pvp to one shot people with a single heavy attack, and for me that's not a good skill.
I think that most people probably confused this with the passive master assassin which i don't have a problem with, and that's mostly my fault because i didn't explain it well enough in my original post, now i edited it to be more clear.
This skill is so awful for only one reason, it synergizes too well with cloak, allowing people to make one shot builds.
I would be satisfied if this buff was reduced to 100 % instead of 250 % but i personally think it should just be removed, with all these proc sets, it has become even worse. -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here's an example of this buff in action.
Surely you can react to that right?....
Skip to 1 min if you just wanna see the gank.
It didn't even proc a set, so you can imagine what would happen if it did.
Notice that he was in fully heavy armor, with sword and board
As a magicka build you might be able to survive that, but as stamina? No, unless you decide to waste a slot to put radiant magelight.Edited by JinMori on March 6, 2017 1:41AM -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Unsent.Soul wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »If Nightblades shouldn't gank, then what should they do? That's kinda the class's thing at the moment, especially on the Stamina side. Take that away, and you're left with pretty much nothing but Eternal Hunt builds, which I think is the kind of thing we need to see more often, but not at the expense of making it the only viable build path for Stamblades. As for Magblades, if they can't gank and/or zergbomb, then they're kinda left in the dust as an inferior version of the Sorcerer.
As much as I agree that gankers shouldn't be able to instantly kill everyone, I also think that gutting the primary function of the class in PvP is a really bad move.
I also disagree about where the problem lies. It's not in the Nightblade passives, it's in the Champion system. The Champion system gives them 25% bonus damage straight-up, an extra heap of crit damage, good resistances and resource sustain so they can survive open fights, and a ton more base stats across the board. This gives them preposterous burst damage, while also giving them everything else they need to make their playstyle extremely forgiving; if their ridiculous burst doesn't instagib everything on the business end of their attacks, then they still have the resource sustain and the resistances to either engage their target openly or effortlessly escape to try again later.
The solution for ridiculous builds isn't removing their ability to specialize in their role, it's dealing with the Champion system that's allowing them to remove most of the drawbacks of specializing.
But i never mentioned the nb passive, i think that's ok, the problem is the 250% crouch damage bonus.
1st I have question, from where you have info this is 250% bonus damage from crouch?
2nd, this bonus damage from crouch/stealth is only to 1st hit, so after 1st hit land on you then every next attack without goping again into stealth wont be buffed by this crouch/stealth
1st: gilliam the rogue, medium armor video, around the 20 th minute
2nd: i don't really know about this one, i think it's only the first hit, but you can guess what happens if you charge a 20+ k heavy attack and then simultaneously use surprise attack and a set procs.
Op showing how little they really know on the matter.
Sneak attack, works only behind the target, deals 250 % more damage on the first hit. Of course must be stealthed.
Sounds like you are talking about the stealth crit damage modifier, which triggers when you hit with certain skills from stealth while flanking the target from behind. 250% sounds high but maybe you're right, I don't know the exact percentage.
This kind of attack doesn't really have anything to do with nightblade class, as it's available for every class with certain class and weapon abilities. In fact if NB uses the cloak ability I believe it becomes just regular crit, not the stealth flanking crit.
The damage from this stealth attack is immediately cut in half if you slot radiant magelight, which also prevents the stun.
Another way to counter this is sacrificing your own dps by wearing impen gear or sturdy instead of divines.
Yes that's the buff that i think should be removed from the game, in the original post i said nightblade, because they are the class who can use this ability in pvp to one shot people with a single heavy attack, and for me that's not a good skill.
I think that most people probably confused this with the passive master assassin which i don't have a problem with, and that's mostly my fault because i didn't explain it well enough in my original post, now i edited it to be more clear.
This skill is so awful for only one reason, it synergizes too well with cloak, allowing people to make one shot builds.
I would be satisfied if this buff was reduced to 100 % instead of 250 % but i personally think it should just be removed, with all these proc sets, it has become even worse.
I think this buff is fine, it's good to have some tradeoffs to the game if you want to do a lot of damage or if you want to avoid getting ganked. There are a lot of players who are extremely tanky and do high damage.
If someone wants to cut the stealth damage in half, they should sacrifice an ability slot for radiant magelight. It's insanely difficult to gank someone with radiant magelight and 7/7 impen.
This is not related to NB class at all and if you are talking specifically about heavy attacks, DKs can do much higher heavy attack damage than nightblades.
It only works in specific flanking situation, vast majority of the time you are just getting regular crits, not this flank crit.
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Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭Here's an example of this buff in action.
Surely you can react to that right?....
Skip to 1 min if you just wanna see the gank.
It didn't even proc a set, so you can imagine what would happen if it did.
Notice that he was in fully heavy armor, with sword and board
As a magicka build you might be able to survive that, but as stamina? No, unless you decide to waste a slot to put radiant magelight.[/quote
Exposing yourself like that is inviting to be ganked (more so flanked) reguardless
It's a battlefield peopleps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
So what do they accomplish killing you in the middle of nowhere? Theres not much of a penalty to dieing in this game. If its in a battle that matters, you will get rezed or your side is defeated anyway. How is it any different than being zerged down?
The reason I will run as a ganker is I do not want to zerg up or don't have people I am grouping with little small scale fights being few and far between.
You never had the experience of getting ganked while you are fighting against multiple players, then suddenly a nb from stealth shows up and you get one shotted from a heavy attack, i tell you it's pretty annoying.
Have u ever been fighting someone and someone not from stealth shows up and kills u? -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
So what do they accomplish killing you in the middle of nowhere? Theres not much of a penalty to dieing in this game. If its in a battle that matters, you will get rezed or your side is defeated anyway. How is it any different than being zerged down?
The reason I will run as a ganker is I do not want to zerg up or don't have people I am grouping with little small scale fights being few and far between.
You never had the experience of getting ganked while you are fighting against multiple players, then suddenly a nb from stealth shows up and you get one shotted from a heavy attack, i tell you it's pretty annoying.
Have u ever been fighting someone and someone not from stealth shows up and kills u?
Well yes, if they are better players then me, or if i'm outnumbered by many. -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
So what do they accomplish killing you in the middle of nowhere? Theres not much of a penalty to dieing in this game. If its in a battle that matters, you will get rezed or your side is defeated anyway. How is it any different than being zerged down?
The reason I will run as a ganker is I do not want to zerg up or don't have people I am grouping with little small scale fights being few and far between.
You never had the experience of getting ganked while you are fighting against multiple players, then suddenly a nb from stealth shows up and you get one shotted from a heavy attack, i tell you it's pretty annoying.
Have u ever been fighting someone and someone not from stealth shows up and kills u?
Well yes, if they are better players then me, or if i'm outnumbered by many.
So whats the difference if u see them coming or not ur still outnumbered -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
So what do they accomplish killing you in the middle of nowhere? Theres not much of a penalty to dieing in this game. If its in a battle that matters, you will get rezed or your side is defeated anyway. How is it any different than being zerged down?
The reason I will run as a ganker is I do not want to zerg up or don't have people I am grouping with little small scale fights being few and far between.
You never had the experience of getting ganked while you are fighting against multiple players, then suddenly a nb from stealth shows up and you get one shotted from a heavy attack, i tell you it's pretty annoying.
Have u ever been fighting someone and someone not from stealth shows up and kills u?
Well yes, if they are better players then me, or if i'm outnumbered by many.
So whats the difference if u see them coming or not ur still outnumbered
You can hold your ground if you have a good build against multiple players, but if someone ganks you from stealth while outnumbered then you are most probably done for.And that for me is one of the worst thing there is in pvp. One shots are just not fun. -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
So what do they accomplish killing you in the middle of nowhere? Theres not much of a penalty to dieing in this game. If its in a battle that matters, you will get rezed or your side is defeated anyway. How is it any different than being zerged down?
The reason I will run as a ganker is I do not want to zerg up or don't have people I am grouping with little small scale fights being few and far between.
You never had the experience of getting ganked while you are fighting against multiple players, then suddenly a nb from stealth shows up and you get one shotted from a heavy attack, i tell you it's pretty annoying.
Have u ever been fighting someone and someone not from stealth shows up and kills u?
Well yes, if they are better players then me, or if i'm outnumbered by many.
So whats the difference if u see them coming or not ur still outnumbered
You can hold your ground if you have a good build against multiple players, but if someone ganks you from stealth while outnumbered then you are most probably done for.And that for me is one of the worst thing there is in pvp. One shots are just not fun.
I dunno i just dont see it i play a semi squishy dps and i dont have a problem turning the table on a ganker. If i do lose i usually run back, find em, and hold them upside down to shake their money out of theit pockets. I just run 5 pieces inpen and usually does the trick -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭What a stupid rant. People who claim that stealthers play "without skill" are just those who don't have the skill themselves to deal with it. Here's an idea -- use radiant magelight to cut damage from stealth in half. Be alert. Use damage shields and/or elude and/or immovable to increase resists. Etc. etc. etc.
Validating it by saying that you have 2 NBs is pointless. I have 3 NB (1 stamina, 1 magicka, 1 tank) and 6 other max-level characters. So yeah, I see it from both sides. Anybody who thinks that a gank from stealth is a sure thing is just plain simple-minded and wrong.
Crouch, cloak u, charge a heavy attack, surprise attack, maybe proc set, dead, now tell me where is the skill in this.
How is the other player supposed to react if you don;t see him, the only way to avoid a gank is if you saw the dude before he went into stealth, that's it, you can't counter something if you can't even see it coming.
The skill is surviving the buddies of the guy you just killed. Oh, you were running around by yourself? That's your problem then.
I don't think that most gankers have the guts to attack an entire group, they usually just pick a random guy when no one else is around. If you manage to take down a group by ganking you have my respect, because that actually takes skills, but killing a single guy with the insane burst you get from crouch? no
1 nightblade with vicious death can take out entire zerg in split second...a zerg containing even 45k hp tanks.I've seen it happen so many times. Instant death of 30+ people who we're too close to each other.
You can have all the mage light you want and good nb will still stealth attack you. It's not hard at all.
it's a situational awareness thing, like reacting to the destro ult.
keep moving.
don't bunch up and relax when you take a resource, throw down caltrops, mines, and get the hell off the pin, put up your shield(s) and move while the flag is flipping, don't sit there admiring yourself on your mount. if you have magelight, activate it. be aware.
be wary of chokepoints like the passages on alessia bridge, breaches, door that are down, etc.
anytime you're mounted, you're subject to being attacked from stealth. nearly every door you pass through in cyrodil is a potential ambush.
try to develop the mindset of 'what if?' and set up your skill bars accordingly.
you'll get ganked, simple fact. try and learn from it and adapt.
jmo.
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Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I said it many times and i will say it again, the damage that nb get from stealth is cancerous to the game, it needs to be removed, or at least toned down. It's useless in pve, and it's cancerous in pvp, this "skill" literally adds nothing good to the game, it only icentivize unskillfull playing, and cancerous builds.
I wonder what would happen if all the nb gankers got they're precious buff removed, and would be forced to actually play with skills.
And this comes from a guy that has 2 nb, one magicka and one stamina.
Edit: i think that some may have misunderstood which buff i'm talking about i apologize for that.
The buff that i'm talking about is not the passive from the assassination skilline Master assassin, i think that's perfectly fine, the buff that i'm talking about is the 250 % damage bonus that you get from crouch.
When you say you want their buff removed so they have to play with skill. Lets be honest, what youre really saying is "I dont have enough skill to counter these players that have put time and energy into excelling in this very niche playstyle. And instead of actually learning to counter them, and learning to play better as a PvPer. I just want to punish these players for being better than me."
There are so many easy counters to NBs and their ability to strike from stealth/cloak that its drawdropping how terrible you are at this game that you cant pick up a single one of them and implement it into your build. Especially since Stealth is a mechanic that is often employed by everyone in PvP regardless of class or build. And since these gankers heavily rely on their ability to strike from the shadows and do so with a lot of burst. Theyre absolute glass cannons. Which means all you have to do is break their stealth/cloak to absolutely ruin their day.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax -
KingDuncanVII✭✭✭RADIANT MAGELIGHT reduces damage from stealth dramatically AND prevents stuns from stealth just by having it slotted. Adjust, don't nerf.Playstation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
• Magicka Regaurd Templar | - Champion
• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Unsent.Soul wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »If Nightblades shouldn't gank, then what should they do? That's kinda the class's thing at the moment, especially on the Stamina side. Take that away, and you're left with pretty much nothing but Eternal Hunt builds, which I think is the kind of thing we need to see more often, but not at the expense of making it the only viable build path for Stamblades. As for Magblades, if they can't gank and/or zergbomb, then they're kinda left in the dust as an inferior version of the Sorcerer.
As much as I agree that gankers shouldn't be able to instantly kill everyone, I also think that gutting the primary function of the class in PvP is a really bad move.
I also disagree about where the problem lies. It's not in the Nightblade passives, it's in the Champion system. The Champion system gives them 25% bonus damage straight-up, an extra heap of crit damage, good resistances and resource sustain so they can survive open fights, and a ton more base stats across the board. This gives them preposterous burst damage, while also giving them everything else they need to make their playstyle extremely forgiving; if their ridiculous burst doesn't instagib everything on the business end of their attacks, then they still have the resource sustain and the resistances to either engage their target openly or effortlessly escape to try again later.
The solution for ridiculous builds isn't removing their ability to specialize in their role, it's dealing with the Champion system that's allowing them to remove most of the drawbacks of specializing.
But i never mentioned the nb passive, i think that's ok, the problem is the 250% crouch damage bonus.
1st I have question, from where you have info this is 250% bonus damage from crouch?
2nd, this bonus damage from crouch/stealth is only to 1st hit, so after 1st hit land on you then every next attack without goping again into stealth wont be buffed by this crouch/stealth
1st: gilliam the rogue, medium armor video, around the 20 th minute
2nd: i don't really know about this one, i think it's only the first hit, but you can guess what happens if you charge a 20+ k heavy attack and then simultaneously use surprise attack and a set procs.
Op showing how little they really know on the matter.
Sneak attack, works only behind the target, deals 250 % more damage on the first hit. Of course must be stealthed.
Sounds like you are talking about the stealth crit damage modifier, which triggers when you hit with certain skills from stealth while flanking the target from behind. 250% sounds high but maybe you're right, I don't know the exact percentage.
This kind of attack doesn't really have anything to do with nightblade class, as it's available for every class with certain class and weapon abilities. In fact if NB uses the cloak ability I believe it becomes just regular crit, not the stealth flanking crit.
The damage from this stealth attack is immediately cut in half if you slot radiant magelight, which also prevents the stun.
Another way to counter this is sacrificing your own dps by wearing impen gear or sturdy instead of divines.
I agree. Seems like OP is mixing some things up something that affects everyone's DPS in specific situations vs a NB thing. Maybe he has merely been attacked by NB gankers. Since he has 2 NBs he should be aware of their skills.
And, yes, like most things in the game, there is a counter. One can setup their build to reduce the damage.Edited by idk on March 6, 2017 3:40AMReally, idk -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »SupremeTravie wrote: »NB is mostly an offensive class. They have less survivalbility than rest of the classes. Most cases when an NB is caught out of stealth they die rather quickly.I'm assuming you just cannot catch them and they put the jukes on you.Plus it's a class based around stealth. You want to take that away from a key role of the class. What sense does that make? There are many counters to gankers. Plenty of forums to read about it. I suggest read up man.
Ah the other often-paraded bit of nonsense in these threads, that somehow nightblade is a disadvantaged class that lacks defense, and so it must be able to disappear because fighting someone who can actually target you is too difficult for such a weak class. Give me a break.
Ganking is toxic. It leads to everyone rolling tanks because they are sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade. It also promotes zerging because people who don't want to be tanks are moving in packs because it makes them less of a target. It promotes people to mindlessly counter-siege from a keep wall instead of coming out for real fight. There is nothing good at all positive about full-timer gankers with gank builds. They do not contribute anything to the gameplay value, and they are mostly just a nuisance and source for harassment to people who are actually trying to pvp.
I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability. They want their high burst ganking build, and they want it to be even more survivable than a well-rounded or even a tank build. They actually want to be able to do massive burst and then completely disengage and get away without anyone being able to fight them back. There is nothing competitive about that kind of gameplay, and there is certainly no sportsmanship involved.
I have to disagree.
Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Nightblade has .... umm, ummm, ummm Mirage. That's it. Mirage. Not sure if there's any stamblade using Mirage instead of Shuffle. There's just no way to build towards survivability for a nightblade, unless you run Troll King. But Troll King itself is cancerous.
Oh, and rolling tanks has nothing to do with "sick of being one-shout out of the blue from a stamblade".
People will still zerg no matter what. It has nothing to do with ganking.
People counter-siege from keep wall because if they go down they will get zerged, it has nothing to do with stamblades.
Nothing sportmanship in PvP openworld. Is zerging sportmanship? Nah. People still do it.
There are certain combinations of setups that make ganking toxic. Ganking itself is fine. There are counterplays to ganking if the setup is not toxic: block or dodge their Incap, slot Mageslight, use your situational awareness (explained above).
NB have many sources of mitigation.
For one, nb have the major armor buffs as a passive freeing up a skill slot other classes can't do.
Cloak for one. Even if you don't use it for invisibility to reset a fight, reposition, suppress a dot etc, the morph that gives 8% damage reduction is huge. As a frame of reference, you mitigate 1% of damage with roughly 650-700 from armor resistances. So 8% reduction is equivaliant to about 5600 armor resist. Plus it also procs the major armor mitigation. So just from cloak you can mitigate roughly %15 of damage before factoring in the other perks you get from cloak.
There is also fear which procs the armor buffs and mitigates damage by 15%. When being hit by multiple people it benefits are even better. Combine cloak and fear and you have about 30% mitigation which is perfect to go defensive with.
As you mentioned we have a class dodge chance which other classes don't have. Shuffle is not the best choice for a mag build typically, so having a mag one is great. I use it on my stam blade because I like the mag dump and speed while in stealth. Plus the passives are nice.
There is also shades with 15% mitigation and teleworking out of danger. Healing received for slotting siphoning abilities. Sap essence. Swallow soul. Healing ult. Mitigation ult. Refreshing path. Not to mention the mobility nb have.
The tools are there. You just need to utilize them better. Mitigation does not come as easy as other classes, but that does not mean they are non existent. In fact, I enjoy that nb can be more challenging to play from a mitigation standpoint.
Let's also not forget the other sources of mitigation out there in skill lines to all. Not everything has to be tucked away into a nice little toolkit for each class. What would be the point of weapons then.
lackey was talking about stamblade, so I was also talking about stamblade. A aagblade can be built as a sap tank, I have one myself, so of course survivalbility is good.
Major armor buff NB has is nothing compared to other classes.
Sorc has streak and dark deal - which is over the top OP, and hurricane/boundless storm that buffs resistance, good AOE
DK has igneous shield (which gives back stam and provides a damage shield), a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
Templar can cleanse, have a buff to resistance, and Major Mending.
A part from resistance buff that everyone else has, stamblade only has Mirage, while everyone else has Shuffle. For a stamblade, cloak is the only way. And it doesn't work most of the time.
P/S: I also use Mirage on my stamblade but most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.
Major armor buffs are same for all classes. They give same bonus so you can't say others are better. Also, as I stated already, nb don't have to waste a skill slot on getting it like every other class. We get an extra skill slot which is huge.
Are you saying I am not higher skilled cause I don't use shuffle??? If so that is a false assumption.
Also, you don't need to be a sap tank to have aurvivability. Those abilities are available for all builds.
You also seemed to gloss over every other forms of mitigation I mentioned thatany other classes do not have access to. Additionally, you have to realize that a nb has higher burst damage then other classes which is why they have less easy mode survival skills. It is a trade off.
Again, by using cloak with the mitigation you get something from cloak even when people countered your cloak.
Yes it's the same for all classes, yes it saves one skill slot but the point is, a stamblade cannot slot anything else to boost their survivability. Again, it's the point, cloak is the only way to boost stamblade's survivalbility. Lackey said "I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability.", and I disagree with him because of that. As I said, "For a stamblade, cloak is the only way".
Streak + Dark Deal/Igneous Shield (w/Major Mending)/Cleanse (w/ Major Mending) + Restoring Focus > tiny minor mitigation.
No, I said "most higher skilled players choose shuffle because it removes snares. Break free, then cast Shuffle right away to remove snares.", I don't say people who use Mirage aren't highly skilled players. The point is that Mirage is not a big deal when most higher skilled stamblades prefer Shuffle.
You owe me a build of a stamblade with survivability without using cloak :P
That's like saying to have a sorc make a survival build without shields or Temps without bol. Doesn't make sense. Yes others have easy mode ways to mitigate damage, but lack in other areas. Nb lack more in easy mode survivability but are better in other areas.
Nb have cloak, fear, shadow image, Mirage and armor buff passive. They also have survival skills that rely on kills such as killers blade and mark.
That's correct. That's why I disagreed with lackey in the first place.josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
I think so many people cry about nightblade having no survivability -- except for cloak -- because they don't want to run a build made for survivability.
As I said, "For a stamblade, cloak is the only way". Why do you always avoid the point? You agree with me or nah?Edited by hmsdragonfly on March 6, 2017 4:24AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen! -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's an example of this buff in action.
Surely you can react to that right?....
Skip to 1 min if you just wanna see the gank.
It didn't even proc a set, so you can imagine what would happen if it did.
Notice that he was in fully heavy armor, with sword and board
As a magicka build you might be able to survive that, but as stamina? No, unless you decide to waste a slot to put radiant magelight.
Fengrush was standing still to talk to the stream, he wasn't actually playing. If he was actually playing, I doubt the ganker would pull off that gank.Edited by hmsdragonfly on March 6, 2017 4:28AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen! -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
U descirbed a couple of things incorrectly. Tons of people have 100 percent up time of potions. Sneaking behind players is a lot of peoples funnest aspect of the game. Theres a whole DLC for it.
You are just like the last 5 post for stealth is OP posts. Unwilling to change your gameplay to counter this playstyle. Face it you arent the best and you have a thing or 2 to learn. If you arent willing to change playstyle, thats on you.
Aside from that theres not a lot of great nightblade players out there, for all we know you met an elite and no matter what u did u would of died.
Personally i love stealth mode, and ganking but i also enjoy duels and 1 v xing. Even tho most of my attacks go well theres many opponents ive facex that counter wreck my ganks. And they are of all classes.
No i'm not the best, there are many players who are much better then me, i don't have a probelm with saying that.
And you can't have 100 % uptime on detect potions since the duration is 15.7 seconds with a 45 sec cooldown.
You seem to always ignore the important point. Very few gankers run blob's 2H ult's one shot build. In fact i haven't seen anyone using it, and it's the only build that can oneshot a person. Most average gankers can be countered, just block their Incap after the ambush. If the ganker knows how to fear + animation cancel right before the Incap, he is good, he deserves the kill, just slot radiant mageslight after that. If the ganker runs clever alchemist + spriggan, use your situational awareness, slot radiant before riding through locations that usually have gankers around.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen! -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone is assuming that i'm a bad player because i don't like this skill, but there are a lot of good players who don't like it, some who are much better then me, you, or anyone that you know, the fact is that you are trying to shut me down by saying that i suck, but i won't fall for that, i stand for what i believe, and i believe that this damage buff is atrocious. I won't take back a single word i said.
Edited by Stovahkiin on March 6, 2017 5:18AMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle! -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Everyone here is saying slot magelight, use detect potions etc, but all of that don't take in account one thing, what happens when you have a guy that you didn't see because he was sneaking up your ass from behind, then use crouch and cloak, then heavy attack and Gn you are dead. Those counters only works if you know that there is someone around, who is gonna use radiant or waste a potion if he doesn't know that there is someone around, ill tell you who. No one. I just wish that there was a better way to use a nb in pvp other then ganking, for me sneaking behind players isn't fun.
Yea nb should have some kind of mechanic that increases damage from stealth, but this is way too much.
U descirbed a couple of things incorrectly. Tons of people have 100 percent up time of potions. Sneaking behind players is a lot of peoples funnest aspect of the game. Theres a whole DLC for it.
You are just like the last 5 post for stealth is OP posts. Unwilling to change your gameplay to counter this playstyle. Face it you arent the best and you have a thing or 2 to learn. If you arent willing to change playstyle, thats on you.
Aside from that theres not a lot of great nightblade players out there, for all we know you met an elite and no matter what u did u would of died.
Personally i love stealth mode, and ganking but i also enjoy duels and 1 v xing. Even tho most of my attacks go well theres many opponents ive facex that counter wreck my ganks. And they are of all classes.
No i'm not the best, there are many players who are much better then me, i don't have a probelm with saying that.
And you can't have 100 % uptime on detect potions since the duration is 15.7 seconds with a 45 sec cooldown.
You seem to always ignore the important point. Very few gankers run blob's 2H ult's one shot build. In fact i haven't seen anyone using it, and it's the only build that can oneshot a person. Most average gankers can be countered, just block their Incap after the ambush. If the ganker knows how to fear + animation cancel right before the Incap, he is good, he deserves the kill, just slot radiant mageslight after that. If the ganker runs clever alchemist + spriggan, use your situational awareness, slot radiant before riding through locations that usually have gankers around.
No! I died! That can't be it! Nerf it! Protect me from myself! -
Unsent.Soul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's an example of this buff in action.
Surely you can react to that right?....
Skip to 1 min if you just wanna see the gank.
It didn't even proc a set, so you can imagine what would happen if it did.
Notice that he was in fully heavy armor, with sword and board
As a magicka build you might be able to survive that, but as stamina? No, unless you decide to waste a slot to put radiant magelight.
This is a HORRIBLE clip. He's standing there drinking a beer for *** sake... he's open season to anyone. Dude had all the time in the world to ensure his ducks were in a row before he executed.
Fengrush was the test dummy... -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »"Nightblade ridiculous damage from stealth needs to be removed"
So remove all ridiculous sorcerer and templar dmg too ?
NB can hit hard ONE target. Sorcerer can hit hard AOE, multiple targets... is that fair ? ?
NB is the class that heavy relay on stealth. In pvp there are too many ways to counter stealth, reducing NB efficiency to like 50 % or less. And it is funny how there is now way to "un - summon" sorcerer's pets or de-buff templar & dragonknight buffs.
And if you played a NB in PvP you know that if you make a 1 - 2 shot stealth kill build - it not always work. If you failed to kill the target - then you are dead. And even if you kill the target - chances are you are dead soon... Furthermore - if you use this ganker build, you are basically glass canon. You sacrifice literally everything in order to have high single - target dmg.
So.. I will dare to that stealth kill NB is probably the most difficult to play type of role in PvP. Very high risk - and high reward.
btw. If you have troubles with NB gankers then you always can have 7 pieces impenetrable heavy armour...
EhEhm bomblade. This is actually one of the very few types on ganking i can respect, because you kill while outnumbered. Stealth kill ganking most difficult playstyle give me a break. What's so difficult about going stealth, using innerlight, heavy attack and surprise attack? Or better snipe from 40 meters away? It's not. Anyway my problem is not with the passive master assassin, it's with the damage bonus from crouch, that needs to be at least toned down.What a stupid rant. People who claim that stealthers play "without skill" are just those who don't have the skill themselves to deal with it. Here's an idea -- use radiant magelight to cut damage from stealth in half. Be alert. Use damage shields and/or elude and/or immovable to increase resists. Etc. etc. etc.
Validating it by saying that you have 2 NBs is pointless. I have 3 NB (1 stamina, 1 magicka, 1 tank) and 6 other max-level characters. So yeah, I see it from both sides. Anybody who thinks that a gank from stealth is a sure thing is just plain simple-minded and wrong.
Crouch, cloak u, charge a heavy attack, surprise attack, maybe proc set, dead, now tell me where is the skill in this.
How is the other player supposed to react if you don;t see him, the only way to avoid a gank is if you saw the dude before he went into stealth, that's it, you can't counter something if you can't even see it coming.
The skill is surviving the buddies of the guy you just killed. Oh, you were running around by yourself? That's your problem then.
I don't think that most gankers have the guts to attack an entire group, they usually just pick a random guy when no one else is around. If you manage to take down a group by ganking you have my respect, because that actually takes skills, but killing a single guy with the insane burst you get from crouch? no
1 nightblade with vicious death can take out entire zerg in split second...a zerg containing even 45k hp tanks.I've seen it happen so many times. Instant death of 30+ people who we're too close to each other.
Yep exactly, but i can respect that, if you manage to kill so many in so little time, that actually takes some skill.
And teaches player's not to stay in a ball group.
@JinMori
This disgusting bit of hypocrisy set me over the edge, and it reveals how your concerns have nothing to do with balance.
You cannot stand one person dying from a gank, but wiping a whole group from stealth is respectable because it kills so many people? A one man gank is a problem, but that isn't?
"that actually takes some skill".... Wiping people caught off guard with the destro ult takes skill?! Are you ****ing kidding me?!
Let there be know doubt, from your brags about 40k dps to this statement right here: All you care about is what kills most effectively, except when it kills you.
You probably run the destro ult and rofl every time you help wipe some group because it makes you feel so OP, but gosh do you hate it when some NB risks it all to pop your fantasy bubble.
Go back to Sanctum Ophidia. Your VO gear doesn't help you much in Cyrodiil.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook." -
ZombieZig✭✭✭@JinMori please stop already. Many have countered your argument. Sorry you were ganked but your gonna have to learn to adapt like everyone else fighting sheild stacking sorcs and reflect spamming dks. Every class has an over powered aspect. Its what makes the class unique and allows players to find a playstyle. You on the other hand are DETERMINED to water down the game to suit YOUR needs and complaints. Just not gonna happen man. -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Night Blade are gankers, stealth assassins to deliver damage..
So Big No for Nerf! -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭Ok.... so let Khajiit get this straight:
Walkers are requesting for a stealth damage nerf to the stealthy assassin class, in order so that they don't get assassinated???
Are we going to nerf the self-sustaining dragonknights?? Or the powerful mages? *thinks back to the old days*.... never mind.
Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers! -
jbjondeaueb17_ESO✭✭✭✭My biggest issue with gankers is that most of the time, at least on TF EU, they're not alone, ganking at 2 or 3 is very cowardly playstyle.Pain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
Guild : Ghosts and Goblins Target Dummies
Players know me as Jeban
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