n00bs/casuals/fresh folks etc ------ pros, elites/ mega elites choo choos.

kuro-dono · March 2017

please zenimax. not sure why you arent getting the message. cp is not the real problem the problem is when aoe choo choos collide with hundreds of people with their about... 3-5 aoe per person or. aoe choo choo triggers horde of ppl to chase them.

force the raids that do this kind of stuff to another campaign without casuals, and watch the raids try farm each other, the amount of spamming going on is INTENSE.

when we get pugs huge zerg vs another huge zerg fight, there is less abilities being used than in one single "small" aoe choo choo.

that near military level organized activity is wrecking the servers. not them filthy pugs who are actually trying to have fun.

what say you lot who actually might hav esome clue? i expect the usual answers, but maybe possibly we get some good replies too.

and plz. no replies that comment my poor english. stay on discussion.

Crispen_Longbow · March 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

please zenimax. not sure why you arent getting the message. cp is not the real problem the problem is when aoe choo choos collide with hundreds of people with their about... 3-5 aoe per person or. aoe choo choo triggers horde of ppl to chase them.
when we get pugs huge zerg vs another huge zerg fight, there is less abilities being used than in one single "small" aoe choo choo.

that near military level organized activity is wrecking the servers. not them filthy pugs who are actually trying to have fun.

force the raids that do this kind of stuff to another campaign without casuals, and watch the raids try farm each other, the amount of spamming going on is INTENSE.

kuro-dono · March 2017

stop being tryhard, and you might start enjoy life.

silky_soft · March 2017

Pugs will get bg in the next dlc. Even then we'll still dominate them with a premade.

kuro-dono · March 2017

the battle ground was always to be e peen heroes place. not pugs. pugs keeps escaping/leaving cyro as the learning curve is bit steep when you get either aoe choo choos kil al the n00bs or you get some super solo yolo nightblade or sorc to kill them all. you learn *** all with that.

its such an shame that this been going for so long in this game, no any kind of separation system to allow for pugs/n00bs to slowly learn the game.

then when you get some folks who get better, they will end up being so bitter and full of salt that they give the same shite to next generation of n00bs.eternal sircle of doom despair and sadness.

but here. we can 50% blame zenimax for lacking ability to enforce their game and 50% of the players who do their utter best to have advantage over other players.

in someworld ppl also call this competive

lol. elites killing n00bs is somehow competive

so sad.

Crispen_Longbow · March 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

stop being tryhard, and you might start enjoy life.

Tryhard

A face-saving insult used by someone who is feeling inadequate. Basically accuses anyone who is better than them at anything of putting in effort. Doubles as an excuse for sucking by implying lack of effort on the speaker's part.
An insult blatantly misused by 13-year-old kiddies in online gaming who, ironically, try very hard to win themselves and take it too seriously when they lose.
Someone who tries too hard to fit in. Easy to spot online because of their constant use of trendy internet slang such as "fail", "cool story bro", and "tryhard".

Dreyloch · March 2017

And this all came about how OP?
Because you thought double AP week was the time to try PvP without knowing jack about it? Because you thought is was all fun, giggles, rainbows and unicorns pharting lollipops? Because you wanted to earn AP the fast and easy way this week? Nope. Not a single shred of sympathy for you. None. Nada. Zilch.

Sigma957 · March 2017

ZOS wants big ball group fights to see where exactly how it affects the servers and by taking cp out helps in finding the answers.

booksmcread · March 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

please zenimax. not sure why you arent getting the message. cp is not the real problem the problem is when aoe choo choos collide with hundreds of people with their about... 3-5 aoe per person or. aoe choo choo triggers horde of ppl to chase them.

force the raids that do this kind of stuff to another campaign without casuals, and watch the raids try farm each other, the amount of spamming going on is INTENSE.

when we get pugs huge zerg vs another huge zerg fight, there is less abilities being used than in one single "small" aoe choo choo.

that near military level organized activity is wrecking the servers. not them filthy pugs who are actually trying to have fun.

what say you lot who actually might hav esome clue? i expect the usual answers, but maybe possibly we get some good replies too.

and plz. no replies that comment my poor english. stay on discussion.

Actually, the real problem is too many server side calculations.

Publius_Scipio · March 2017

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

stop being tryhard, and you might start enjoy life.

Tryhard
A face-saving insult used by someone who is feeling inadequate. Basically accuses anyone who is better than them at anything of putting in effort. Doubles as an excuse for sucking by implying lack of effort on the speaker's part.

An insult blatantly misused by 13-year-old kiddies in online gaming who, ironically, try very hard to win themselves and take it too seriously when they lose.

Someone who tries too hard to fit in. Easy to spot online because of their constant use of trendy internet slang such as "fail", "cool story bro", and "tryhard".

Isn't that guy in the picture on the right actually a YouTube personality? lol, i can swear I saw a video about him regarding ESO around launch.

IxSTALKERxI · March 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

stop being tryhard, and you might start enjoy life.

Tryhard
A face-saving insult used by someone who is feeling inadequate. Basically accuses anyone who is better than them at anything of putting in effort. Doubles as an excuse for sucking by implying lack of effort on the speaker's part.

An insult blatantly misused by 13-year-old kiddies in online gaming who, ironically, try very hard to win themselves and take it too seriously when they lose.

Someone who tries too hard to fit in. Easy to spot online because of their constant use of trendy internet slang such as "fail", "cool story bro", and "tryhard".

Isn't that guy in the picture on the right actually a YouTube personality? lol, i can swear I saw a video about him regarding ESO around launch.

Boogie2988

AbraXuSeXile · March 2017

Zerg surfing is as bad if not worse for lag and pvp than bomb groups.

Take for instance my group, ill look on the map and pick a place away from allies, once we are there enemies stop zerg surfing to come fight us creating a fight in a new place.

If no bomb groups its lag central because all in one place.Theres at least 4 groups EU who spend majority of there time around their pugs. These are just sad.

Biro123 · March 2017

I think he's could be right.

Looking at TF and Azura - both have massive zerg vs zerg fights - and yeah, one difference is CP - another is the number of tightly-packed ball-groups involved. It could be the amount and intensity of the calculations going on when there's that much AOE going off on that many players in that small a space all at the same time - when added on top of all the other stuff going on. Personally, I think its partly this and partly 3-way battles.. Doubly so when its ball-groups involved in 3-way battles.

Its one of the reasons Zos asked for people to PVP in their usual server the way they normally do.. ofc double-AP screwed that with all the PVEers taking up all the server slots to try to quickly farm their vigour/caltrops..

Another difference could be siege. Its much more effective with no-cp - so it gets used a LOT more... Perhaps simple siege attacks are fairly easy to calculate compared to spells/abilities - so the more there are on siege, the less the load...

Could be AD.. there's usually hardly any AD in EU Azura - load in TF - and TF is more laggy - therefore AD causes lag.

Could be anything, really.

Etaniel · March 2017

It's not like some people have been saying this for 2 years, the lag to person ratio is way higher in ball groups than it is in unorganized zergs.

IxSTALKERxI · March 2017

Etaniel wrote: »

It's not like some people have been saying this for 2 years, the lag to person ratio is way higher in ball groups than it is in unorganized zergs.

Have you seen the people in the unorganized zergs though? I've analyzed the gameplay of the AD players that go from alessia to sej each day, and half of them don't even cast abilities. I'd say about 20% of them are khajiit with bows that spam light attacks at the air in front of them as they hold down the W key. It's no wonder they don't put much strain on the server lol.

kuro-dono · March 2017

would be nice to compare server filled with aoe choo choo:ers and siege lovers to erver with all the folks who dont siege actively and who dont run in aoe choo choo:ing or 1vx with their aoe setups.

last night again so easily proved. huge red horde vs huge covenant horde, no lagg. but guess who arrived to the keep and oh how laggy it suddenly got.

PC EU. as ever. Azura star.

Etaniel · March 2017

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

It's not like some people have been saying this for 2 years, the lag to person ratio is way higher in ball groups than it is in unorganized zergs.

Have you seen the people in the unorganized zergs though? I've analyzed the gameplay of the AD players that go from alessia to sej each day, and half of them don't even cast abilities. I'd say about 20% of them are khajiit with bows that spam light attacks at the air in front of them as they hold down the W key. It's no wonder they don't put much strain on the server lol.

That's exactly my point

DemonDruaga · March 2017

Just too many passive effects, that wont help performance too. Like every class has an ability that gives buff X to every ally, if skill line Y is used, some are spamed and get refreshed every single time, for every player. Sets that behave the same, CP passives that behave the same and all of them just in a certain range, so a position check is in need. Not counting in the effects caused by the skills themselfs so it is just so many things that sums up.
Like i usually have like 10+ debuffs on me at an intense fight, they get cleansed an reaplished like twice a second.. and I am just one of hundreds. I guess that surely is something that is at least a part of our lag issues.
But I have no idea of the technical world behind games so if I am completly wrong correct me here

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2017

I think its a variety of factors. The cP, Calcs, Lag, etc are all part of a bigger underlying problem.

ZOS hasn't publicly defined what play conditions their server game engine and client can truly handle

the solution to fixing lag in the game is changing the game mechanics to FORCE players to play in a manner that gives their game engine, both client and server side, good performance.

For example, If that means nerfing the tar out of premade-groups larger then 8 people, taking their AP gains to zero, changing the way skills they use fundamentally work, or taking them out of the game completely and replacing them with skills that do work within the confines of what they game and server engine can handle, then thats what they need to do.

I don't have access to their raw data, server logs, etc to be able to tell you what they should do. The above is just an example if Ball Groups was confirmed to be the problem, if something is a problem, if you can't fix it, then you have to discourage its use.

However, whatever that is, they need to take a heavy handed approach even if that means changing parameters and player behavior and simply Force their player base into parameters their game engine can handle.

Yes they will take a lot of flack for it, the changes probably won't effect PVE at all since Trials are capped at 12, dungeons at 4, and things seem ok there. I think the large scale PVP thing was a very ambitious endeavor from ZOS, they have tried multiple times reducing pop caps, but it hasn't made the differences they want obviously. PVP fights create conditions they will never see in PVE.

They need to define:

1. What is causing the performance issues
2. What can we do to fix it?
3. If coding isn't an option to fix it(Due to costs, etc)
4. Take steps to influence player behavior to get the desired result.

That's really what this comes down to. Firor seemed very interested in getting PVP up to par suddenly, perhaps he just had so many projects on his plate with timelines they just couldn't do anything before. All we can do now is just sit back, wait, and see what happens.

iseko · March 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

would be nice to compare server filled with aoe choo choo:ers and siege lovers to erver with all the folks who dont siege actively and who dont run in aoe choo choo:ing or 1vx with their aoe setups.

last night again so easily proved. huge red horde vs huge covenant horde, no lagg. but guess who arrived to the keep and oh how laggy it suddenly got.

PC EU. as ever. Azura star.

Yea, was there. Screen started freezing suddenly xD. Was fun while it lasted though

Valencer · March 2017

This just doesnt hold up in reality. Trueflame has been lagging out the past few days during prime time when a whole alliance pug swarm stacks at a single keep.

The current numbers-always-win zerg meta is both very unrewarding and downright bad for performance. Doesnt help that the new objective AP gains totally encourage this stacking even more - the more easily you can roll over a keep's defense, the faster your AP gains will be.

IxSTALKERxI · March 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

the solution to fixing lag in the game is changing the game mechanics to FORCE players to play in a manner that gives their game engine, both client and server side, good performance.

For example, If that means nerfing the tar out of premade-groups larger then 8 people, taking their AP gains to zero, changing the way skills they use fundamentally work, or taking them out of the game completely and replacing them with skills that do work within the confines of what they game and server engine can handle, then thats what they need to do.

Doing this would probably make a lot of people quit ESO and play another game which I suppose would solve the lag haha. Need to find a solution that doesn't drastically limit the game play experience imo.

Satiar · March 2017

At this point i won't shed tears if they change group size just for change of pace. I'll finally be able to try running multiple groups without feeling guilt. Manage 2-3 8mans will be more challenging than a single 16-24 I think.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2017

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

the solution to fixing lag in the game is changing the game mechanics to FORCE players to play in a manner that gives their game engine, both client and server side, good performance.

For example, If that means nerfing the tar out of premade-groups larger then 8 people, taking their AP gains to zero, changing the way skills they use fundamentally work, or taking them out of the game completely and replacing them with skills that do work within the confines of what they game and server engine can handle, then thats what they need to do.

Doing this would probably make a lot of people quit ESO and play another game which I suppose would solve the lag haha. Need to find a solution that doesn't drastically limit the game play experience imo.

Honestly I hope that group size and such isn't the problem. I'd rather people be able to play how they want I was just using that as an extreme example.

I would hope there would be some more reasonable things they could do, hopefully fix it coding wise would be the best case and that's what I hope for.

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

Satiar wrote: »

At this point i won't shed tears if they change group size just for change of pace. I'll finally be able to try running multiple groups without feeling guilt. Manage 2-3 8mans will be more challenging than a single 16-24 I think.

People don't care if you run multiple groups unless the cumulative numbers in your groups outnumbers them.

Derra · March 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

At this point i won't shed tears if they change group size just for change of pace. I'll finally be able to try running multiple groups without feeling guilt. Manage 2-3 8mans will be more challenging than a single 16-24 I think.

People don't care if you run multiple groups unless the cumulative numbers in your groups outnumbers them.

Reducing groupsize only matters if they change healing and buffmechanics to work in groups aswell.

Otherwise it´s entirely pointless - except for maybe extreme cases of grpcap 4.

Sanct16 · March 2017

Reducing group cap won't change anything about lag. Wake up guys.

Satiar · March 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

At this point i won't shed tears if they change group size just for change of pace. I'll finally be able to try running multiple groups without feeling guilt. Manage 2-3 8mans will be more challenging than a single 16-24 I think.

People don't care if you run multiple groups unless the cumulative numbers in your groups outnumbers them.

It's a tradition thing. High level ESO PvP has always been about who has the strongest single group. That's how I've always measured our competition and how I always will as long as group size caps at a number that can play the map effectively. If the cap changes, then everything changes.