RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

So you´re suggesting a system with 1CP campaign and all others have CP disabled?

What happens when all campaigns are empty and the CP one has 200+ queues?

I don't think that will be the case. My main Guild, who used to do reg PVP events quit PVP completely a few months after 1.6 because they hated how everyone became a god due to CP.

This no-cp event has revived their interest in PVP, and we have now confirmed this guild will now be homing Azura Star after this event is over bringing help and positive thinking to the Daggerfall Covenent and to compliment the already good guilds there like LODG who is an excellent presence there.

I think there will be far more on Trueflame that leave after this event then many think. I have talked to over 100 people on voice comms this week alone at various times that all say the same thing:

"Finally PVP is fun again, this is how it used to be when i used to have so much fun playing"

Azura Star is going to leech a significant portion of players from all 3 factions on TF because people are sick and tired of the ridiculous setups CP allows you to have.....

Any good CP allows you to you have is out weighed by the flatout broken set ups it allows. The power creep associated with it is bad for the game, and leads to a toxic environment,m and pigeon holes people into min-max setups with no trade offs, its really the illusion of peoples choice, and is in pointed fact anti-TES all the way and has for all intents and purposes killed hybrid setups for endgame PVE or PVP.

This^.

The lag is just a tin foil hat issue we hope they can confirm/deny.

The biggest problem the current pvp setup has is that there has been a significant population drop because this area of the game was not fun prior to this week for a large portion of players. One-shot mechanics, everyone becoming "raid bosses", and one-stop heals and buffs for everyone around you are primarily caused by inflating stats through the CP system. And the stars that cause this are heavily used by pve, so simply changing these stars might never happen.

Regardless, a large portion of players had a taste for nCP and alot of them had expressed additional interest in joining AZ where none was there. In fact, many players I've heard from didn't even know AZ had nCP to begin with, because they don't bother to give pvp the time of day and I don't blame them. Imagine hearing from friends that they got killed by a proc set before they can react, or couldn't wail on a reactive-malubeth Templar despite having 24 people hitting him. Now think how much of that is actually fun game mechanics; none.

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

So you´re suggesting a system with 1CP campaign and all others have CP disabled?

What happens when all campaigns are empty and the CP one has 200+ queues?

I don't think that will be the case. My main Guild, who used to do reg PVP events quit PVP completely a few months after 1.6 because they hated how everyone became a god due to CP.

This no-cp event has revived their interest in PVP, and we have now confirmed this guild will now be homing Azura Star after this event is over bringing help and positive thinking to the Daggerfall Covenent and to compliment the already good guilds there like LODG who is an excellent presence there.

I think there will be far more on Trueflame that leave after this event then many think. I have talked to over 100 people on voice comms this week alone at various times that all say the same thing:

"Finally PVP is fun again, this is how it used to be when i used to have so much fun playing"

Azura Star is going to leech a significant portion of players from all 3 factions on TF because people are sick and tired of the ridiculous setups CP allows you to have.....

Any good CP allows you to you have is out weighed by the flatout broken set ups it allows. The power creep associated with it is bad for the game, and leads to a toxic environment,m and pigeon holes people into min-max setups with no trade offs, its really the illusion of peoples choice, and is in pointed fact anti-TES all the way and has for all intents and purposes killed hybrid setups for endgame PVE or PVP.

This^.

The lag is just a tin foil hat issue we hope they can confirm/deny.

The biggest problem the current pvp setup has is that there has been a significant population drop because this area of the game was not fun prior to this week for a large portion of players. One-shot mechanics, everyone becoming "raid bosses", and one-stop heals and buffs for everyone around you are primarily caused by inflating stats through the CP system. And the stars that cause this are heavily used by pve, so simply changing these stars might never happen.

Regardless, a large portion of players had a taste for nCP and alot of them had expressed additional interest in joining AZ where none was there. In fact, many players I've heard from didn't even know AZ had nCP to begin with, because they don't bother to give pvp the time of day and I don't blame them. Imagine hearing from friends that they got killed by a proc set before they can react, or couldn't wail on a reactive-malubeth Templar despite having 24 people hitting him. Now think how much of that is actually fun game mechanics; none.

Or maybe people simply did not bother to pvp because there has been no new actual pvp content since the games release?

Maybe the game is more fun because the event character actually populated campaigns during off hours and there´s always action?

Edit: Update: 17:34 german time 360 ping game lagging/abilities not firing tf eu.

Derra wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

So you´re suggesting a system with 1CP campaign and all others have CP disabled?

What happens when all campaigns are empty and the CP one has 200+ queues?

I don't think that will be the case. My main Guild, who used to do reg PVP events quit PVP completely a few months after 1.6 because they hated how everyone became a god due to CP.

This no-cp event has revived their interest in PVP, and we have now confirmed this guild will now be homing Azura Star after this event is over bringing help and positive thinking to the Daggerfall Covenent and to compliment the already good guilds there like LODG who is an excellent presence there.

I think there will be far more on Trueflame that leave after this event then many think. I have talked to over 100 people on voice comms this week alone at various times that all say the same thing:

"Finally PVP is fun again, this is how it used to be when i used to have so much fun playing"

Azura Star is going to leech a significant portion of players from all 3 factions on TF because people are sick and tired of the ridiculous setups CP allows you to have.....

Any good CP allows you to you have is out weighed by the flatout broken set ups it allows. The power creep associated with it is bad for the game, and leads to a toxic environment,m and pigeon holes people into min-max setups with no trade offs, its really the illusion of peoples choice, and is in pointed fact anti-TES all the way and has for all intents and purposes killed hybrid setups for endgame PVE or PVP.

This^.

The lag is just a tin foil hat issue we hope they can confirm/deny.

The biggest problem the current pvp setup has is that there has been a significant population drop because this area of the game was not fun prior to this week for a large portion of players. One-shot mechanics, everyone becoming "raid bosses", and one-stop heals and buffs for everyone around you are primarily caused by inflating stats through the CP system. And the stars that cause this are heavily used by pve, so simply changing these stars might never happen.

Regardless, a large portion of players had a taste for nCP and alot of them had expressed additional interest in joining AZ where none was there. In fact, many players I've heard from didn't even know AZ had nCP to begin with, because they don't bother to give pvp the time of day and I don't blame them. Imagine hearing from friends that they got killed by a proc set before they can react, or couldn't wail on a reactive-malubeth Templar despite having 24 people hitting him. Now think how much of that is actually fun game mechanics; none.

Or maybe people simply did not bother to pvp because there has been no new actual pvp content since the games release?

Maybe the game is more fun because the event character actually populated campaigns during off hours and there´s always action?

There's no reason to pvp at all, if we are being honest. Prior to this event, most of the pvp forums were populated with "I'm just here to kill" comments. Combine this with no fun mechanics in open cyro except "stack and pray".

At least in nCP you are not forcing players to hit brick walls in the form of unkillable tanks, or builds that can heal in one shot without sustain penalties and you can have more meaningful 1v1 encounters (if you can pry them from the large fronts). Sure there are issues, but those are arguably easier to fix than to deal with trying to balance CP/classes/abilities without impacting PvE.

Talcyndl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

ofc all this "No Lag" *** comes from players who just pursue their No-CP PvP agenda.

You mean the same way "lag is still the same" comes from players who dont like No-CP PVP?

^

Yet - the CP people just want to go back to "normal".

Some vocal nonCP people want CP to be permanently disabled for everyone because they like it better.

One side of this argument seems to have a lot more to "gain" from twisting their perceived truth no? - Shamed be he who thinks evil of it.

The no-CP folks will have Azuras regardless. So it seems like the keep some CP campaigns are the ones with the most to gain.

But really it's beside the point. At the end of the day, ZOS will make their determination based on their internal monitoring - not on who is the loudest on the forums.

No - people who like CP campaigns have something to loose.

People who like noCP have something to gain from removing choice (if they play on a medium where nonCP isn´t populated).

It´s a difference.

Derra wrote: »

It´s a [distinction without a] difference.

FYP

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

So you´re suggesting a system with 1CP campaign and all others have CP disabled?

What happens when all campaigns are empty and the CP one has 200+ queues?

I don't think that will be the case. My main Guild, who used to do reg PVP events quit PVP completely a few months after 1.6 because they hated how everyone became a god due to CP.

This no-cp event has revived their interest in PVP, and we have now confirmed this guild will now be homing Azura Star after this event is over bringing help and positive thinking to the Daggerfall Covenent and to compliment the already good guilds there like LODG who is an excellent presence there.

I think there will be far more on Trueflame that leave after this event then many think. I have talked to over 100 people on voice comms this week alone at various times that all say the same thing:

"Finally PVP is fun again, this is how it used to be when i used to have so much fun playing"

Azura Star is going to leech a significant portion of players from all 3 factions on TF because people are sick and tired of the ridiculous setups CP allows you to have.....

Any good CP allows you to you have is out weighed by the flatout broken set ups it allows. The power creep associated with it is bad for the game, and leads to a toxic environment,m and pigeon holes people into min-max setups with no trade offs, its really the illusion of peoples choice, and is in pointed fact anti-TES all the way and has for all intents and purposes killed hybrid setups for endgame PVE or PVP.

Oh good, more DC on PC Azura lol

Derra wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

So you´re suggesting a system with 1CP campaign and all others have CP disabled?

What happens when all campaigns are empty and the CP one has 200+ queues?

I don't think that will be the case. My main Guild, who used to do reg PVP events quit PVP completely a few months after 1.6 because they hated how everyone became a god due to CP.

This no-cp event has revived their interest in PVP, and we have now confirmed this guild will now be homing Azura Star after this event is over bringing help and positive thinking to the Daggerfall Covenent and to compliment the already good guilds there like LODG who is an excellent presence there.

I think there will be far more on Trueflame that leave after this event then many think. I have talked to over 100 people on voice comms this week alone at various times that all say the same thing:

"Finally PVP is fun again, this is how it used to be when i used to have so much fun playing"

Azura Star is going to leech a significant portion of players from all 3 factions on TF because people are sick and tired of the ridiculous setups CP allows you to have.....

Any good CP allows you to you have is out weighed by the flatout broken set ups it allows. The power creep associated with it is bad for the game, and leads to a toxic environment,m and pigeon holes people into min-max setups with no trade offs, its really the illusion of peoples choice, and is in pointed fact anti-TES all the way and has for all intents and purposes killed hybrid setups for endgame PVE or PVP.

This^.

The lag is just a tin foil hat issue we hope they can confirm/deny.

The biggest problem the current pvp setup has is that there has been a significant population drop because this area of the game was not fun prior to this week for a large portion of players. One-shot mechanics, everyone becoming "raid bosses", and one-stop heals and buffs for everyone around you are primarily caused by inflating stats through the CP system. And the stars that cause this are heavily used by pve, so simply changing these stars might never happen.

Regardless, a large portion of players had a taste for nCP and alot of them had expressed additional interest in joining AZ where none was there. In fact, many players I've heard from didn't even know AZ had nCP to begin with, because they don't bother to give pvp the time of day and I don't blame them. Imagine hearing from friends that they got killed by a proc set before they can react, or couldn't wail on a reactive-malubeth Templar despite having 24 people hitting him. Now think how much of that is actually fun game mechanics; none.

Or maybe people simply did not bother to pvp because there has been no new actual pvp content since the games release?

Maybe the game is more fun because the event character actually populated campaigns during off hours and there´s always action?

There's no reason to pvp at all, if we are being honest. Prior to this event, most of the pvp forums were populated with "I'm just here to kill" comments. Combine this with no fun mechanics in open cyro except "stack and pray".

At least in nCP you are not forcing players to hit brick walls in the form of unkillable tanks, or builds that can heal in one shot without sustain penalties and you can have more meaningful 1v1 encounters (if you can pry them from the large fronts). Sure there are issues, but those are arguably easier to fix than to deal with trying to balance CP/classes/abilities without impacting PvE.

Well all those people can go play noCP if they prefer it - or can´t they?

Also fixing issues nonCP is actually much harder - as you have to adress abilities themselves instead of fixing underlying issues with the general CP system.
This means every pvp ability change could backfire into CP pve environment.

It leaves the devs with two intertwined combat system that have to be balanced seperately instead of focusing on one. I personally don´t think thats a desireable situation. But i could be wrong

Also you did not answer to my questions at all. How do you determine if your or my statement is closer to the truth?

This is going to be long, sorry lol.


They can keep the separate servers, sure.
If they do 1CP, you will have 200+ ques. But most of this is a function of excessive advertisement of 30 day TF being the "competitive server" and "CP being the endgame" which therefore force players to home on those campaigns. Even when AZ was CP no one went there, because of the above reasons. We want to challenge this and say nCP is the ultimate end game for pvp, since you lack the extra dmg/defensive you get for "participating" via CP. When the populations flip to AZ, then we can say CP is a flop and turn it into

I think balance should be a direct look at the skills themselves and how they relate to the way players play.
Most of the skills currently are working fine in nCP. And even with lich sets, you still can't achieve the free 16% cost reduction . So this puts pressure on the issue of "spamming". This means players now have to be conscious on what they are doing, even in zergs.

The argument that they have to address the skills themselves is pointless since they have to address how they perform anyway.
This is why supporters of nCP are so adamant for nCP across all servers; the continuing changes to how CP works doesn't solve the underlying issues that relate to game play or the classes/skills themselves. It masks these issues and promotes an unhealthy progression mechanic.

The truth is in the overall feedback you'll see on the forums and the overall playing experience of the players. The truth is also there if you compare the changes they have made after CP system was added and to the statements they are making looking into nCP for the test and why resource management is more true in nCP versus CP.

Saint_Bud wrote: »

Would be nice to have a test week with the absolut max cp, not just 600, to see how broken this systhem is. I play on both, cp and non cp and the lag was the last months not a real problem in no cp, not just this week. I think its not the cps self, but this alows build that can stay to long and have nearly unlimit ressurce and this ends much more lag.

They did this in the PTS of the CP introduction patch. Basically you become a literal god.

Derra wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

ofc all this "No Lag" *** comes from players who just pursue their No-CP PvP agenda.

You mean the same way "lag is still the same" comes from players who dont like No-CP PVP?

^

Yet - the CP people just want to go back to "normal".

Some vocal nonCP people want CP to be permanently disabled for everyone because they like it better.

One side of this argument seems to have a lot more to "gain" from twisting their perceived truth no? - Shamed be he who thinks evil of it.

The no-CP folks will have Azuras regardless. So it seems like the keep some CP campaigns are the ones with the most to gain.

But really it's beside the point. At the end of the day, ZOS will make their determination based on their internal monitoring - not on who is the loudest on the forums.

No - people who like CP campaigns have something to loose.

People who like noCP have something to gain from removing choice (if they play on a medium where nonCP isn´t populated).

It´s a difference.

People who like CP will lose a part of the game they enjoy. They just want things to be the way they were.

People who dislike CP will want to force their ideal playing environment on other players who don't enjoy that, when they already have a campaign that provides them with that.

I don't think this is hard to understand.

All I know is that pvp is fun again, the lag has been much improved there will never be lag free pvp, I was at roe when the huge DC zerg showed up and last week it would have not been playable, when I say huge I mean close to 100 of just one faction, and that is being conservative. We were able to have a huge battle and some red showed up there was a little lag but nothing like it used to be. I remember the days when we could have 3 factions fighting at the same location and the lag would be next to nothing or nothing, sure would like to see those days return.

I think after the event and things return to poop on TF, I am going to home on Azura, I just hope there is enough population to have some good action during my play time in the afternoons and early evening, eastern time.

This has rejuvenated my interest a bit and I really hope the dev's got a lot of good data and they can make some changes for all of us to have a good time in pvp, and not have to worry about performance, power gaps, cheaters exploiters, infinite resource builds, crazy tanks that dish out massive damage, just things that are not right in mmo combat.

I really wish they would bring back soft caps and hard caps to me that was some of the best times in the game and the most build diversity I have seen so far.

Satiar wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Honestly the only ones i see saying pvp is great now are the ones who want no cp in pvp .. Its noticeable right away everyday that there is no real difference. It lags just as much with cp as it does without. In my opinion what ever they did to take the CP out of the non AZ camps made input lag even worse.

I dunno man, it feels better. But that's not quantifiable so the debate kinda ends there.

I don´t know.

It feels the same for me. I get hit by invisible spells. My streak is delayed by 1 to 2s in large fights.

The gameplay changed fundamentally (which makes determining actual changes all that much harder).

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

ofc all this "No Lag" *** comes from players who just pursue their No-CP PvP agenda.

You mean the same way "lag is still the same" comes from players who dont like No-CP PVP?

And you get another lol. I guess if i post a random picture with 100 ping it means that its not lagging right?

No it doesn't. If you want to look at the timestamp on my hardrive and ask the 100 or so people who witnessed me on TF at that point to confirm I was there just to prove to yourself I'm not a liar with an agenda, by all means feel free.

I am not claiming that this week has always had terrible ping. I am saying those people who claim there is "no lag" or it has been "lag free" are engaging in selective memory.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are saying "lag is fixed" because they want a progression-free PVP.

Takllin wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

ofc all this "No Lag" *** comes from players who just pursue their No-CP PvP agenda.

You mean the same way "lag is still the same" comes from players who dont like No-CP PVP?

And you get another lol. I guess if i post a random picture with 100 ping it means that its not lagging right?

No it doesn't. If you want to look at the timestamp on my hardrive and ask the 100 or so people who witnessed me on TF at that point to confirm I was there just to prove to yourself I'm not a liar with an agenda, by all means feel free.

I am not claiming that this week has always had terrible ping. I am saying those people who claim there is "no lag" or it has been "lag free" are engaging in selective memory.

Who says i called you a liar? The thing is that you are not the only one playing this game. Even if that is the ping that you play all day and its not just a spike it doesnt prove anything. I could also post a picture of very low ping when the servers are pop locked. Its not gonna prove anything either. Just because you lag it doesnt mean its the same for everyone. And also its not about seeing if it just lags or not. Its about seeing if its better than before. Feel free to believe that "no lag" comes from players who just want to see CP removed tho. Same applies for those who believe "its worse than before" comes from people who just dont want CP removed. In any case, i just dont like conspiracy theories.

The thing is posting a picture of low ping doesn't matter because that's how it should be. Posting a picture of the server shitting itself is pointing out a problem and letting people know that lag is actually still a thing without CP. Is it better? I can't say. I experienced yesterday something I haven't experienced since the lighting patch though, and that was a complete slideshow while I was running/farming a scroll. The only difference would be that it wasn't player frames that went down, but server frames. Does that count as latency? IDK, but it wasn't a client side issue and that's a problem.

The only thing in this game that causes lag is too many players being in the same area. Of course through some logical thinking cp = calculations = increased server stress. However, the solution of "remove CP" isn't any more of a solution than removing skills and just letting us light attack. Because obviously using skills and abilities adds to server lag as well.

I agree with Sneaky in that removing the CP is just causing people to move as one massive zerg. This is compounded by the double AP event which ensures a successful stress test, but also encourages moving as one blob so that everyone shares the new 16k keep ticks and 4k resource ticks. This kind of gameplay leads to 4 players taking a resource and getting swarmed by 20-30+. It leads to a couple of players trying to fight on the fringes ending up with the entire zerg turning 90 degrees towards you and following to the end of the map because your mere presence has insulted them and they can't allow you to have fun in a video game. This really isn't the type of thing that needs to be promoted.

One problem is that siege makes pushing alone almost unmanageable. Protracted keep fights are.... brutal. Watching replays of us dive bombing 80+ EP at Aleswell farm, most of our deaths are due to siege. Cleansing doesn't really help when you're getting hit with more inc damage than your HP from siege alone -- not to mention the 80 or so EP you're also fighting. I found my plays mostly confined to pushing the frontier and flanking maneuvers.