Trait research times need to be toned down

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2017

No

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

has been 2 years still has 6 8 left

Can't open the link but if you haven't researched in that long time it's maybe just laziness because "all it takes is pressing a button".

@SquareSausage

Right, just one button. And since it's that easy there has to be a catch, right?

Remag_Div · February 2017

Yes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Can I please have everything on all of my alts for little to no effort? I don't like leveling my skills, I don't like grinding for xp and loot or searching for skyshards and lorebooks. I also don't want to play pvp for pvp skills. I want free bank and inventar upgrades. I don't want to sub but still get the perks. I want to max my horse on my main and get instant access to it on my other toons. I don't like the effort it takes to decorate my useless houses which I cannot buy because I'm too lazy to gather gold. And I want everything I did on one toon to count towards the achievements of the other 11 characters, so I can put that fancy master thief or stormproof title on chars that never did all this. And I don't want to wait for researching. I don't want to play at all, I just want everything given to me.

I have the feeling that some people just want a CoD with swords and staves. Fast action, no effort, being ready from the get go.

lol.. what a ridiculous post. The hyperbole from some people in here is off the charts.

SquareSausage · February 2017

Yes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

has been 2 years still has 6 8 left

Can't open the link but if you haven't researched in that long time it's maybe just laziness because "all it takes is pressing a button".

@SquareSausage

Right, just one button. And since it's that easy there has to be a catch, right?

It really is as simple as that, glad you've came round.

For the record im 9 traits in most items, I still think its too long and future players shouldnt need to face that.

alexkdd99 · February 2017

Yes

Guambodian wrote: »

No way. Everybody wants things to be easier all the time. Some things are just worth the effort. For the longest time people who took the time and spent the gold to complete research on traits, motifs, etc, were undervalued. If everyone else wants what current master crafters have, everyone needs to put in the same time and work. ZOS, please no shortcuts for impatient newer players.

Except there is no effort, just logging in and clicking a button every few days. That is not work. You spent the gold on the motifs to have them before others. You more than likely knew the price would drop but chose to buy them when you did.

Please explain how what op is suggesting would make ANYTHING easier. Less time consuming? Yes. Easier? No, it would be the same thing.

Btw I have 9 trait everything. Trait research is ridiculous. Adding another level to reduce research time through use of more skill points sounds like a great idea to me.

If zos truly wants to raise the floor and lower the ceiling like they say, then this seems like a logical step for them.

SirSocke · February 2017

No

Definetly No! It's a great feeling when the last trait is analyzed and you can craft everything.

Remag_Div · February 2017

Yes

Also, my original suggestion does not have to be the only thing added. What are some other ideas?

Another poster had a good thought in that 9 trait crafters should be more meaningful and be allowed to do more things. How about a level 50, 9 trait crafter can convert armor to any motif style that he has learned? That could be a great new way for master crafters to make Gold selling their services to change armor to certain styles for a fee and it would give an even greater incentive to acquire more motifs.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2017

No

Remag_Div wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Can I please have everything on all of my alts for little to no effort? I don't like leveling my skills, I don't like grinding for xp and loot or searching for skyshards and lorebooks. I also don't want to play pvp for pvp skills. I want free bank and inventar upgrades. I don't want to sub but still get the perks. I want to max my horse on my main and get instant access to it on my other toons. I don't like the effort it takes to decorate my useless houses which I cannot buy because I'm too lazy to gather gold. And I want everything I did on one toon to count towards the achievements of the other 11 characters, so I can put that fancy master thief or stormproof title on chars that never did all this. And I don't want to wait for researching. I don't want to play at all, I just want everything given to me.

I have the feeling that some people just want a CoD with swords and staves. Fast action, no effort, being ready from the get go.

lol.. what a ridiculous post. The hyperbole from some people in here is off the charts.

Yes, it's exaggerated to no end but it mirrors so many threads in this forum. Everything should be easier. And even if it's easy, it shouldn't take long. People say it themselves. It's no problem to press the research button and it's even cheap to get all the motifs if you are patient. -> it's easy and cheap, it just takes a while. But it should be easy, cheap and also fast?

[Deleted User] · February 2017

No

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2017

No

Remag_Div wrote: »

Also, my original suggestion does not have to be the only thing added. What are some other ideas?

Another poster had a good thought in that 9 trait crafters should be more meaningful and be allowed to do more things. How about a level 50, 9 trait crafter can convert armor to any motif style that he has learned? That could be a great new way for master crafters to make Gold selling their services to change armor to certain styles for a fee and it would give an even greater incentive to acquire more motifs.

How can I make gold if it's so fast to achieve that status yourself?

LadyLavina · February 2017

I don't mind the times at all. Theyre soooo much better than Eve Online, to be a little off topic. I've been training my character in Eve for months to fly a Carrier and it still won't be done to a sufficient degree until July xD

Dragonnord · February 2017

No

No. I had to wait forever to have my 9 traits, so everyone can do the same. I'm tired of unfair things in this game.

Remag_Div · February 2017

Yes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Remag_Div wrote: »

Also, my original suggestion does not have to be the only thing added. What are some other ideas?

Another poster had a good thought in that 9 trait crafters should be more meaningful and be allowed to do more things. How about a level 50, 9 trait crafter can convert armor to any motif style that he has learned? That could be a great new way for master crafters to make Gold selling their services to change armor to certain styles for a fee and it would give an even greater incentive to acquire more motifs.

How can I make gold if it's so fast to achieve that status yourself?

You sure like creating your own arguments.

I never once said it needs to be fast or "instant" like many others have said without even reading the thread. Toning it down, or increasing times from 35% (with ESO+) to something along the lines of 50% by adding more skillpoints in a passive line does not make it fast. It'll knock, what, a month or two off a year long grind?

I can't speak for everyone who voted yes, but people keep acting (or trolling) that I want a 9 trait crafter in a month. I understand there needs to be a grind, I just think it can be toned down a bit at the cost of adding more skillpoints if you so choose.

Morimizo · February 2017

No

However, I would not mind if ALTs got either reduced time, or research was account wide (if this were the case, the research could take even longer).

STEVIL · February 2017

Yes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Can I please have everything on all of my alts for little to no effort? I don't like leveling my skills, I don't like grinding for xp and loot or searching for skyshards and lorebooks. I also don't want to play pvp for pvp skills. I want free bank and inventar upgrades. I don't want to sub but still get the perks. I want to max my horse on my main and get instant access to it on my other toons. I don't like the effort it takes to decorate my useless houses which I cannot buy because I'm too lazy to gather gold. And I want everything I did on one toon to count towards the achievements of the other 11 characters, so I can put that fancy master thief or stormproof title on chars that never did all this. And I don't want to wait for researching. I don't want to play at all, I just want everything given to me.

See out of hand this gets? Not saying OP wants this all, but some suggestions are... odd. Researching is not even as tedious as e.g. horse feeding or running around for shards. There has been some serious suggestions to improve this game, like token systems or that it's demotivating that your pvp rank is character bound. But this? You have to click 2-3 buttons each time a research is done. It's neither difficult nor exhausting. You just have to wait or come back and play a game that depends on a large playing community.

Since reasearched traits improve your chances on master writs, shortening the time to research would probably lead to a decreased chance for a writ. After all, there should be a something in for someone who plays this game loyaly. Somewhere in an other threadI read that every crafted set should be BoP. Both, shorter research and BoP would deminish or eliminate the reward someone gets for taking that long "journey" to become a master crafter. And even if it's just a tiny percentage in getting on RNGs good site or being one of the "few" that can craft and sell 9 trait sets.

I know forum users are a vocal negative minority but sometimes I have the feeling that some people just want a CoD with swords and staves. Fast action, no effort, being ready from the get go. Somehow you have to bind people to the game, to make 'em play this game as often as possible. And feeding a horse everyday for a bonus you can get or having research done in the background are a few options for this.

RE the bold - just to be clear - are you aware that for tens of thousands of years the most successful games every had this "ready immediately start and go"element as a basic function in the game? Are you aware that those most successful games ever got people to play them over and over by being interesting not by holding back the more enjoyable aspects with a clock delay? one might think that in the days of 3d animations, sfx, interactive storylines and such the ability to make it interesting would not be as hard to reach as it did with a game of 19x19 lines and a couple hundred black or white rocks.

i am very glad you mentioned the horse thing since... that was one of the better crown store offerings. its a simple "beat the timer for crowns" option.

As for this:"Both, shorter research and BoP would deminish or eliminate the reward someone gets for taking that long "journey" to become a master crafter. And even if it's just a tiny percentage in getting on RNGs good site or being one of the "few" that can craft and sell 9 trait sets. "

The most massive hit to the value of crafters was the 1T drop set revolution. letting more folks craft - wont be anywhere on that scale.

If crafters want more and better crafting - they want more crafters not fewer.

Tandor · February 2017

No

Be careful what you ask for when seeking the dumbing down of a MMO, because a dumbed down MMO may well be what you end up with - and it's no fun.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2017

No

@Remag_Div
Allright. I threated "faster" and "fast" as equal. I agree on the part that master crafter should be meaningful as you invest a lot of skillpoints and gold for motifs AND the patience to research this. The idea to transmog is nice as it gives them more purpose and a way to make gold as a reward for the input.
But, and that is the but, if players get there fast, or faster (depends on how much faster) the "special position" of said master crafters get deminished as 1/3 of the input get's even easier (again, depends on the coditions there are for e.g. transmog). The long research time is thinnig out the herd, so to say. And yes, I know there will be more people with everything researched as time goes by anyway.
The thing with the benefits for masters is great. But making that status to achieve even easier is counteracting that. The more people are able to do something the harder the competition gets. Mind the horrible prices for new items and the lowering after a few weeks.
But maybe I overvalue that. Don't know how many thousand master crafters are online at any given time.

@STEVIL
Yes, I do know that many succesfull games have this "ready from the start" thingy. But I don't think that having everything researched fastER adds to the re-play value of this game.

EDIT: as for the impact compared to 1T: like I wrote in the paragraph above, I may overestimate the impact of that all.

Evergnar · February 2017

No

Research times are reasonable imo. Faster now then it use to be.

shadowwraith666 · March 2017

Yes

There are f2p games with much lower research times than ESO

Warframe - 3-4 days depending on item
Star trek online - 20hrs max depending on item, even fleet research isn't as long as ESO
neverwinter - 20hrs max depending on item

ESO - 30 days with rank 4 passives and no sub
27 days with sub and passives
64 days with no sub or passives

research times should not take longer than a f2p game

jedtb16_ESO · March 2017

No

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yes it does.
To those saying not or that you had to do it the long way......
Stop

That's dumb

Why would you want ppl to not have opportunities to participate in buying and selling or progressing

Ideally if they wanted to make the ESO plus benefit worth a dang....it should reduce all to 8 24 hours each

Outside of ESO Plus, it never should exceed 5 days

people have exactly the same opportunities to buy, sell and progress....

want the skills?

put the time in.

Remag_Div · July 2017

Yes

I'd like to bump this thread and see how everyone reacted when ZOS released the research time scrolls in the Crown Store.

Everyone freaked out in this thread when I made it so I'm going to assume people were not thrilled when they learned you could pay cash to become a max crafter. Then again, it would take a ton of cash to level everything up from scratch.

Cpt_Teemo · July 2017

They have the 1d papers now, that's enough

Raeph · July 2017

Yes

Just because people endured a bad system before doesn't mean that system should never change. Because, you know, it's bad.

People here sound like grandparents talking about how they had to walk miles and miles to school, and because of that there shouldn't be any school buses, dangnabit!

AlnilamE · July 2017

No

You forget that ESO+ reduces research time by 10%, so the max is 27 days.

Chilly-McFreeze · July 2017

No

Raeph wrote: »

Just because people endured a bad system before doesn't mean that system should never change. Because, you know, it's bad.

People here sound like grandparents talking about how they had to walk miles and miles to school, and because of that there shouldn't be any school buses, dangnabit!

Granpa here. Buy research scrolls with master crafter vouchers instead of demanding handouts. Silly youth.

Chadak · July 2017

Yes

Crabs in a bucket will always drag others down to the bottom with them.

I think the arbitrary timers are worse than excessive -they're boring.

Boring, unengaging, lifeless, dead air. It takes me 10 seconds to figure out what I need to research next, and then I'll be waiting 10-30 days before I can spend another 10 seconds figuring out what I need to research next.

That's fun, is it?

I like crafting my own stuff. It gives me the freedom to gear myself and my alts, and my friends' characters and alts, with a greater degree of determinism.

I hate RNG. I find it dull, unengaging, lifeless and chiefly appealing to those that can neither do math nor see through childishly obvious ruses masking bad designs, or no design at all for anything better.

What I loath even more than RNG, however, is bad systems.

I find trait research to be a bad system because I find it to be the most singularly boring, uninspiring, unengaging thing to do in the entire game. You literally do nothing except set and, ideally, forget.

And then, some great long while later, you malinger on the forum acting like you 'worked' super hard to get nine trait research.

You didn't work hard. You didn't work at all. You did something so indiscernibly close to nothing that I would forgive anyone for being unable to meaningfully identify a difference.

I dunno, maybe its just me that's set aside everything I need to research in the bank and just...research it when a slot's available. There is no further planning involved. There is no anything what so ever involved.

Do I hate it? There's not much to hate. There's not much at all. Its trite to act like this is work and that anyone in the entire game's put forth some sort of slavish effort, struggling and wheezing and toiling for countless thousands of hours to finally, at long last, craft nine trait sets.

You show up for ten seconds every great while and click something. That's it.

That...is...it.

But because you 'worked so hard™', you'll commit to having a puerile tantrum if the system were to ever, I dunno, begin to exist as something other than a placeholder?

Gosh. Your thirty seven seconds of effort stretched out over 6-12 months might be devalued.

Oh wait, wait, I'm sorry - nirnhoned could possibly require some actual gameplay.

Unless you just buy it off a vendor like I did and research it at your leisure like everything else.

I honestly would have liked the system better if it did involve some effort, or some planning, or some anything at all.

As it is...I do it because I like being able to craft good stuff for myself and my friends. The path to being able to do so is indistinguishable to me from doing nothing at all.

Point, click, set, forget. You're done for the month. Off you go.

Someone got paid to come up with that.

Someone else looked at it and went 'Yep, that's good, put it in'.

Yet others went 'Yeah, this'll do. Lets go live with this'.

And here we are, with the most forgettable, boring, unengaging aspect of crafting system I've ever encountered in any game, MMO and otherwise, in my history of gaming.

I'm not a fan, and not because I'm impatient. I'm quite fine with things that require patience.

This? I don't know how anyone could find this fun, engaging or much of anything at all. It isn't even remarkable or existent enough to call it terrible. Its the 'Something should go here' sign that got left in by mistake, except I doubt it was a mistake.

Cheers.

Moonscythe · July 2017

Yes

I would like it faster or in some way more manageable. I have crafting characters I can't delete because they are the only ones who know everything. I don't usually research on all characters and it's a little late to shake your finger at me and say i was foolish. If I learned it once the hard way why can't I impart that wisdom faster to a sister?

Cillion3117 · July 2017

No

What's the hurry? What's with this need for instant gratification? Just relax and enjoy the game, and wait for it the way the rest of us did.

idk · July 2017

No

Raeph wrote: »

Just because people endured a bad system before doesn't mean that system should never change. Because, you know, it's bad.

People here sound like grandparents talking about how they had to walk miles and miles to school, and because of that there shouldn't be any school buses, dangnabit!

I am enduring it for a second, third and fourth character ATM. Did not find it a big deal with my first and neither do I find it an issue now. It is just life and this is just another thread where someone wants microwave gaming.

BTW, I rode a horse to school.

neverwalk · July 2017

No

spent to much time to learn 9 traits for it to change, but it already changed by selling research scrolls to decrease research timers.

Destyran · July 2017

Yes

Voxicity wrote: »

Yeah not gonna happen or all of us who researched them the long way WILL revolt

Ok so the fact that i had to level toons to 50!! Complete main quest. Grind then clear caldwells silver then go to gold and grind more!!! Then cyrodill to grind my to level MY toons when today you can just get to 50 in 6 hours and be 160 cp in a few more??? Ok get off your high horse