An idea for a token based system

karma69 · February 2017

Currently as it stands when people want to farm for specific sets most of us blast through dungeons in normal mode and complete them in under 15 minutes. The workflow for this is simple:

Users need to complete vet HM dungeons to get tokens, each dungeon drops 1 token
Each run gives you a token
Place an NPC vendor at the start of the dungeon that offers every set pieces dropped through the dungeon in various traits, including weapons
Tokens dropped in a dungeon can only be used in the dungeon it was dropped from e.g. you shouldn't be able to farm the hell out of vCOA1 HM with 4 DDs and be able to use the tokens gained from there to get gear from other dungeons, like Amber Plasm from Ruins of Mazzaatun
Make it so you need about 20 tokens per weapon and about 10-15 token per body piece from the dungeon

Guys at ZOS team, I think we really need to find a middle ground here. The whole community wants a feature like this, we really hate uncertainty, just like you, as a business, hate not being able to predict your quarterly financial earnings.

I think it was Rich that said he likes RNG because it keeps players playing dungeons and playing the game, and though I agree with his thought process behind it, I think we have to find a middle ground to please both parties. Doing dungeons in vet HM can take some time and for the most part would require a dedicated group to run efficiently, with the amount of tokens needed, and gain the set pieces and weapons people want from dungeons, I think this method pleases the community as it gives us an indication of our progress and what we must further to do get that weapon or set piece we truly want and also gives you (ZOS) some comfort that people aren't abandoning some great piece of content.

As I said earlier, when looking to farm for weapons it becomes extremely boring. Blasting through normal dungeons with 4 DDs is pretty boring and requires no thought. Through this token method, I'm sure you'll have more vet HM participation from the community and a lot more people will do dungeons to this level as they are guaranteed a currency to purchase the items they require.

I don't even care if the token rewards and tokens required for set pieces are ridicilous, the point is that as a community we have clear indication to our progress and actually rewards those people that can do the dungeon and in turn pushes those players that don't know specific dungeons to try them out even more. Oh and not to mention, many people have more than 1 character (I currently have 7 at CP561) so players won't just leave a dungeon and never do it again after they have what they need. I think we'll still be looking to farm the same dungeons to gear out or other toons.

What do you guys think?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

(sorry for any grammatical errors, my final year project is squeezing grammer from me :P)

KerinKor · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

The whole community wants a feature like this

Actually, no they don't.

Every time someone comes up with this idea there are many who say NO WAY and who profess a love for RNG-based drops, they claim it makes it more enjoyable.

karma69 · February 2017

KerinKor wrote: »

karma69 wrote: »

The whole community wants a feature like this

Actually, no they don't.

Every time someone comes up with this idea there are many who say NO WAY and who profess a love for RNG-based drops, they claim it makes it more enjoyable.

I don't know what rock you're living under but every player that either does PvP or end game PvE wants this. There was even a thread post yesterday where someone was complaining about the undaaaunted RNG.

The system would remain the same way? Nothing would change in terms of drop rates. The only difference is that you have the option to go for tokens or for RNG in normal dungeons. Please tell what the negatives to this. This would not impact the many people that you claim to hate this feature.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Who the heck wants to run something a minimum amount of times when if loot was removed it could be one time.

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

karma69 · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Nobody is saying to remove loot. The loot should be left the same, the only change that is made to dungeons is the addition of tokens, loot should remain the same.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

The current way of doing things makes me not want to return to dungeons. Farming COA 1 50 times to get the full body piece makes me dispise that dungeon. And how is it selfish? We all do dungeons because we need something from them. We mostly do things for our benefit and where we can, we help out friends. And as I clearly said in my post if you were to read it fully, I have 7 characters. I would need to gear all those characters out.

White wabbit · February 2017

Love when people speak for others

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Nobody is saying to remove loot. The loot should be left the same, the only change that is made to dungeons is the addition of tokens, loot should remain the same.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

The current way of doing things makes me not want to return to dungeons. Farming COA 1 50 times to get the full body piece makes me dispise that dungeon. And how is it selfish? We all do dungeons because we need something from them. We mostly do things for our benefit and where we can, we help out friends. And as I clearly said in my post if you were to read it fully, I have 7 characters. I would need to gear all those characters out.

@karma69

That's selfish. You and others are suggesting that "you" want a straightforward way to get BIS items and you're suggestion is just for "you" and those who have the same intent.

It's selfish because people do dungeons for the following
1. Undaunted quests
2. First time quests
3. Daily exp and the green and blue repeatable loot
4. Leveling up
5. Finding gear as they level

Tokens by default are a specific means of removing the possibility of many ever coming back. It's a detriment and only benefits you but exponentially hurts others.

Potential causes
1. Less people in queue
2. Less ppl in guilds doing dungeons
3. Less ppl in chat grouping for dungeons
4. Makes it a speed run for tokens and skipping stuff inside.

Didgerion · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Who the heck wants to run something a minimum amount of times when if loot was removed it could be one time.

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

How does this make you selfish exactly?

And what If you get the right gear in the right trait on the first run? - does it make you less selfish? - because you are not gonna return to that dungeon unless you want to try a different trait later on.

ZOS knows exactly what they are doing - they know what gear and what trait is desired and I bet that the drop rate is lowered on those items just to make people run more times for it and keep the areas populated.
And people don't stop unless they get it - that's how people work and ZOS is taking advantage of it.

There will be no tokens in this game until ZOS will be confident on the content they provide.
Maybe battlegrounds will fix it - maybe there will be a constant flow of new players that want to compete in a balanced environment and only then they can drop rng from this game for tokens or other less grindy mechanics.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Didgerion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Who the heck wants to run something a minimum amount of times when if loot was removed it could be one time.

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

How does this make you selfish exactly?

And what If you get the right gear in the right trait on the first run? - does it make you less selfish - because you are not gonna return to that dungeon unless you want to try a different trait later on.

ZOS knows exactly what they are doing - they know what gear and what trait is desired and I bet that the drop rate is lowered on those items just to make people run more times for it and keep the areas populated.
And people don't stop unless they get it - that's how people work and ZOS is taking advantage of it.

There will be no tokens in this game until ZOS will be confident on the content they provide.
Maybe battlegrounds will fix it - maybe there will be a constant flow of new players that want to compete in a balanced environment and only then they can drop rng from this game for tokens or other less grindy mechanics.

@Didgerion

See above it's explained.

If you get your gear in one run.....that's impossible by design. Even if you get BIS on all drops it's not enough boss kills so no that doesn't make you less selfish.

You're selfish if you play in a way that....I got mine and I'm not going back or helping others.

It's the same for ppl who do solo runs to farm set in dungeons. WTH, why not bring others to help the community and increase ppls odds.

Doing 50-100 runs and not getting said items, in a group setting would give others said items.
By design, it's a help me help you model.

I agree that certain traits should be removed but tokens on top of that are a selfish point of view.

Turelus · February 2017

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

karma69 · February 2017

Didgerion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Who the heck wants to run something a minimum amount of times when if loot was removed it could be one time.

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

How does this make you selfish exactly?

And what If you get the right gear in the right trait on the first run? - does it make you less selfish? - because you are not gonna return to that dungeon unless you want to try a different trait later on.

ZOS knows exactly what they are doing - they know what gear and what trait is desired and I bet that the drop rate is lowered on those items just to make people run more times for it and keep the areas populated.
And people don't stop unless they get it - that's how people work and ZOS is taking advantage of it.

There will be no tokens in this game until ZOS will be confident on the content they provide.
Maybe battlegrounds will fix it - maybe there will be a constant flow of new players that want to compete in a balanced environment and only then they can drop rng from this game for tokens or other less grindy mechanics.

Completely agree with you and great points made.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

karma69 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Nobody is saying to remove loot. The loot should be left the same, the only change that is made to dungeons is the addition of tokens, loot should remain the same.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

The current way of doing things makes me not want to return to dungeons. Farming COA 1 50 times to get the full body piece makes me dispise that dungeon. And how is it selfish? We all do dungeons because we need something from them. We mostly do things for our benefit and where we can, we help out friends. And as I clearly said in my post if you were to read it fully, I have 7 characters. I would need to gear all those characters out.

@karma69

That's selfish. You and others are suggesting that "you" want a straightforward way to get BIS items and you're suggestion is just for "you" and those who have the same intent.

It's selfish because people do dungeons for the following
1. Undaunted quests
2. First time quests
3. Daily exp and the green and blue repeatable loot
4. Leveling up
5. Finding gear as they level

Tokens by default are a specific means of removing the possibility of many ever coming back. It's a detriment and only benefits you but exponentially hurts others.

Potential causes
1. Less people in queue
2. Less ppl in guilds doing dungeons
3. Less ppl in chat grouping for dungeons
4. Makes it a speed run for tokens and skipping stuff inside.

Did you read my thread fully? On your 4th point for potential causes, I said that as it stands I continuesly run normal dungeons in less than 15 minutes without thinking and absolutely skipping stuff inside. I go as fast as I can.

It's selfish of me to suggest a feature that helps me and many others? Ok buddy, I tell you what is selfish, its extremely selfish of you trying to dismiss this idea becaause you don't agree with it. Tokens are not a means of removing people from coming back if implemented correctly.

1. People still need to do many achievements with regards to dungeons
2. There are many new players in the game that require gear, they will supplement the lifecycle of dungeons
3. As I said, make it so you need to do vet HM of each dungeon for tokens and require aabout 20 tokens for the reward you want. How on earth does this reduce players doing dungeons? I have 7 characters, I have at leaast 2 toons that need BSW gear

heyjrey · February 2017

While a token-based system would be nice, I kinda think that the "hunt" is what makes everything fun—though it is very frustrating. I'm not saying I have great RNG or that I even love the RNG in this game cause I don't (prosperous and training, best traits—so OP) But a token system for dungeon drops would be too easy and would literally make running dungeons pointless cause all I'd have to do is run any vet dungeon multiple times and gather enough "tokens" for the set piece I've been looking for. Especially since the HM dungeons aren't even difficult (unless we're talking about vRoM, because my group and I are still trying to get past execute phase in HM without wiping)

But yeah. I hate the RNG in this game, but I don't want a token system for dungeon drops. No thank you.

karma69 · February 2017

Turelus wrote: »

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

If you read my full thread thats what I did say, read point 4

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Turelus wrote: »

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

@Turelus

Hahaaa. No not shot.
It's a good measure if something like this were added.

But I'd say this, while I don't like tokens or rep grinds, you'd either have your dungeon or vet specific tokens and no loot drops at all or adjustments to the loot tables with no tokens in my opinions of this topic.

The other side is basing it on how ZOS has added currency, it's going to be some vendor restrictions or very high token counts.

Ppl don't comprehend that they are going to force you into repeatable environments one way or another. As is, random traits aren't bad considering you do get the set items 100%.

t3hdubzy · February 2017

Rng system has made me quit dungeons, dailies, and any drop related pve content unless im leveling a new skill, and even then its only a small portion, most things i can level in pvp.

I occasionally help friends out doing pve.

karma69 · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

@Turelus

Hahaaa. No not shot.
It's a good measure of something like this were added.

But I'd say this, while I don't like tokens or rep grinds, you'd either have your dungeon or vet specific tokens and no loot drops at all or adjustments to the loot tables with no tokens in my opinions of this topic.

If you read my 4th point I clearly said 'Tokens dropped in a dungeon can only be used in the dungeon it was dropped from e.g. you shouldn't be able to farm the hell out of vCOA1 HM with 4 DDs and be able to use the tokens gained from there to get gear from other dungeons, like Amber Plasm from Ruins of Mazzaatun'

Turelus · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

If you read my full thread thats what I did say, read point 4

Sure I was kind of just posting my thoughts not really in agreement or disagreement with you.

They would need to make these some kind of currency though (much like other MMO token systems) rather than physical items and the issue is still just how many different ones we would end up with.
I don't know how viable it would be for them vs just having a "Normal Dungeon Token, V. Dungeon Token, etc." I guess we just have to wait and see how they handle it.

The other option could be to break down set items so you break down Skoria's Helm and you get "A Shard of Skoria's helm" with x number being needed to forge one (with a trait stone) to the trait you want.
This way you have RNG (which ZOS loves) of if you get a helm, but if you get a bad one you break it for a shard (100% chance, BoP). This would also open up Nirnhoned as an option for dungeon gear.

karma69 · February 2017

Turelus wrote: »

karma69 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

If you read my full thread thats what I did say, read point 4

Sure I was kind of just posting my thoughts not really in agreement or disagreement with you.

They would need to make these some kind of currency though (much like other MMO token systems) rather than physical items and the issue is still just how many different ones we would end up with.
I don't know how viable it would be for them vs just having a "Normal Dungeon Token, V. Dungeon Token, etc." I guess we just have to wait and see how they handle it.

The other option could be to break down set items so you break down Skoria's Helm and you get "A Shard of Skoria's helm" with x number being needed to forge one (with a trait stone) to the trait you want.
This way you have RNG (which ZOS loves) of if you get a helm, but if you get a bad one you break it for a shard (100% chance, BoP). This would also open up Nirnhoned as an option for dungeon gear.

My bad, I assumed you didn't read the full thread

Though I do like this suggestion, I'm not sure if I agree with it. Reason being is that it would be way too easy to get what you need, you'd just farm aa dungeon, get the item you need and change the trait. I think with the suggested token system it becomes a long grind but also a predictable one where you have a gold and you can tick off your achievements and weigh out what you need for what you want.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I might be shot for this but...

I don't want a token system where it drops "Veteran Dungeon Token" but rather "Wayrest Sewers Dungeon Token".
As the former version means players will just farm easy dungeons then go and buy items from the harder ones.

I feel the tokens need to be content specific, however that sadly means you're going to end up with stacks of items which isn't really feasible.

@Turelus

Hahaaa. No not shot.
It's a good measure of something like this were added.

But I'd say this, while I don't like tokens or rep grinds, you'd either have your dungeon or vet specific tokens and no loot drops at all or adjustments to the loot tables with no tokens in my opinions of this topic.

If you read my 4th point I clearly said 'Tokens dropped in a dungeon can only be used in the dungeon it was dropped from e.g. you shouldn't be able to farm the hell out of vCOA1 HM with 4 DDs and be able to use the tokens gained from there to get gear from other dungeons, like Amber Plasm from Ruins of Mazzaatun'

@karma69

I did read it. Scroll and read my full comment and the context of it all.

You're already playing in what I would describe as a selfish manner trying to beat the system or work the system.

Perhaps if you'd just run specifics over and over with 4 ppl, your loot drops would improve. ZOS does not have pure RNG, it's contingent upon different things.

I've noticed speeds runs and skipping always drop undesired traits. This weekend I did 3 randoms Vet. Just three.

We cleared everything and I got 7 gear items in divines and 3 sharpened weapons, 2 divine monster helms.

Normally the group just kills the undaunted bosses and skip the rest or just skip the optional bosses. In those many cases I often see training and prosperous.

Maybe it was just a good week on Xbox One NA
But I noticed the frequency of divine drops and sharpened.

Didgerion · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No.
Why are you and others wanting tokens.

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

Who the heck wants to run something a minimum amount of times when if loot was removed it could be one time.

The other side of this.....it's a selfish ask.
So you get your item and never return back, how are others suppose to get their items?

How does this make you selfish exactly?

And what If you get the right gear in the right trait on the first run? - does it make you less selfish - because you are not gonna return to that dungeon unless you want to try a different trait later on.

ZOS knows exactly what they are doing - they know what gear and what trait is desired and I bet that the drop rate is lowered on those items just to make people run more times for it and keep the areas populated.
And people don't stop unless they get it - that's how people work and ZOS is taking advantage of it.

There will be no tokens in this game until ZOS will be confident on the content they provide.
Maybe battlegrounds will fix it - maybe there will be a constant flow of new players that want to compete in a balanced environment and only then they can drop rng from this game for tokens or other less grindy mechanics.

@Didgerion

See above it's explained.

If you get your gear in one run.....that's impossible by design. Even if you get BIS on all drops it's not enough boss kills so no that doesn't make you less selfish.

You're selfish if you play in a way that....I got mine and I'm not going back or helping others.

It's the same for ppl who do solo runs to farm set in dungeons. WTH, why not bring others to help the community and increase ppls odds.

Doing 50-100 runs and not getting said items, in a group setting would give others said items.
By design, it's a help me help you model.

I agree that certain traits should be removed but tokens on top of that are a selfish point of view.

Well I don't see why grouping for getting tokens faster cannot be considered helping.
The point is the people are helping each other as long as it is beneficial for everybody. Once a person gets all he wanted then he is done with that dungeon. Of course if you form a relationship during this grinding then helping can continue without benefits but this is also true for a token driven system.

Anyway the greediness has nothing to do with token system.

And yes it is possible to get your gear in one run - molag kena helm is a good example - once you get the right trait and type then you are done with that dungeon period.

karma69 · February 2017

@NewBlacksmurf I read it all, guess I misinterpreted what you said.

With your thought process, it would take months to get all the gear your build requires. If you play dungeons every day randomly it would take months to get the build you need and comes along next patch where that build may not be BiS.

I want to do more time doing meaningful things with the build I want to play with rather than just farm the hell out of dungeons to get what I need.

I took me 3 days of grinding for 6+ hours per day to get a full body piece of BSW in Divines. This was done in a group with other people that needed the same set. So you know what, if you think I am being selfish for aiming to get the build that I want then I don't know what to say to you.

I think its pretty selfish of you telling me how I should and shouldn't get the gear I want.

You say that tokens would reduce people doing dungeons? Well in my particular case, I want Amber Plasm and Aspect of Mazzatun (both for PvP) but I don't think I will try to get them. RNG is just so bad that I am sick and tired of dedicating my time to doing dungeons. If tokens were a thing, you'd have an aim and a goal to aspire to.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf I read it all, guess I misinterpreted what you said.

With your thought process, it would take months to get all the gear your build requires. If you play dungeons every day randomly it would take months to get the build you need and comes along next patch where that build may not be BiS.

I want to do more time doing meaningful things with the build I want to play with rather than just farm the hell out of dungeons to get what I need.

I took me 3 days of grinding for 6+ hours per day to get a full body piece of BSW in Divines. This was done in a group with other people that needed the same set. So you know what, if you think I am being selfish for aiming to get the build that I want then I don't know what to say to you.

I think its pretty selfish of you telling me how I should and shouldn't get the gear I want.

You say that tokens would reduce people doing dungeons? Well in my particular case, I want Amber Plasm and Aspect of Mazzatun (both for PvP) but I don't think I will try to get them. RNG is just so bad that I am sick and tired of dedicating my time to doing dungeons. If tokens were a thing, you'd have an aim and a goal to aspire to.

@karma69

Mathematically your chances are better with 4 players vs just one. On Xbox one in VET randoms or specifics it's common when we enter to say hey I'm seeking X or Y.

At the end or during, we trade, but 6 hours.....solo

One run with 4 in terms of chance is the equivalent of 4 solo runs however, time is exponentially decreased.

All I'm suggesting is that a token system wouldn't be any less than what you're doing now based on how AP, TV, etc systems were designed by ZOS.

I do hear the intent is to have a goal, but my observation has been that ppl who grind for BIS solo or outside of the dungeon design tend to all be frustrated and refer to over 75-100 runs

According to Xbox and the ingame systems, I've never done any Vet dungeon more than 20 times

For Amberplasm, I have gloves, chest, boots, waist, legs, fire staff, healing staff, lighting staff and 2-hand sword. All but the healing staff and 2-hand are divines.

I also have two rings with varying stats.
Now I didn't get those the first time but I've done them I think 10-15 times total counting 3 runs last week when it was the undaunted daily. I have a magic dps Templar, a Templar healer and a magic sorc.

I just did the specific Vet so I could get the undaunted quests done and that's how it worked out.

So some where other ppls drops and we swapped drops as I wanted divines and they didn't

That's my point of view.
I do think removing certain trait chances completely specific to some items would be good but all in all 4 ppl is the way to go and full clears.

Yeah....everyone likes to skip the fire guys.....we actually didn't clear them but full clear in terms of bosses

jakeedmundson · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

I agree.... Just put useful traits on specific weapons/sets.

99.9% of the population wants sharpened/precise on weapons. Maybe put 1 or two other traits to make most happy... nirnhoned and defending maybe? Cut the loot table in half.

Same with armor. Keep divine, infused, impen on all dps set drops..... sturdy, reinforced, impen, infused on tank set drops?

I dunno exactly... but cut some of the fat off. They know which traits are most used and which are not.

The other option would be to make the other traits useful... but that would probably be very difficult.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

jakeedmundson wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Just have them remove specific trait item combinations from loot tables.

I agree.... Just put useful traits on specific weapons/sets.

99.9% of the population wants sharpened/precise on weapons. Maybe put 1 or two other traits to make most happy... nirnhoned and defending maybe? Cut the loot table in half.

Same with armor. Keep divine, infused, impen on all dps set drops..... sturdy, reinforced, impen, infused on tank set drops?

I dunno exactly... but cut some of the fat off. They know which traits are most used and which are not.

The other option would be to make the other traits useful... but that would probably be very difficult.

Exactly this comment above

karma69 · February 2017

@NewBlacksmurf I guess I didn't mention this but I never done the dungeons solo. I think I'd rather stop playing the game than do a dungon for 6+ hours a day for 3 days just to get what I need. My runs were always with a 4 man team. On times it would be with a pickup group from zone chat and then other times it would be group finder where I'd tell people what I need to give to me if they don't need it. Many times I got gear that I didn't need and gave it to the other group members that needed the gear.

I'm not sure whether this changes your mind about me being selfish but if it doesn't then I don't have anything else to say.

Grinding for a full BSW Divines body piece for 3 days at 6+ hours a day in a full team is really frustrating, I suggest this token system to prevent something as unpleasant as this from happening to others.

Inhuman003 · February 2017

This is a good idea it will make it easier to get the gear that you want instead of farming for that one piece of gear that you have a hard time to get.

Draconerus · February 2017

A token system needs to be in the game. ESO has the worst RNG out of any MMO I have ever played and is one of the only games without a token system to counter it and make our effort farming gear worthwhile and not a pointless grind.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf I guess I didn't mention this but I never done the dungeons solo. I think I'd rather stop playing the game than do a dungon for 6+ hours a day for 3 days just to get what I need. My runs were always with a 4 man team. On times it would be with a pickup group from zone chat and then other times it would be group finder where I'd tell people what I need to give to me if they don't need it. Many times I got gear that I didn't need and gave it to the other group members that needed the gear.

I'm not sure whether this changes your mind about me being selfish but if it doesn't then I don't have anything else to say.

Grinding for a full BSW Divines body piece for 3 days at 6+ hours a day in a full team is really frustrating, I suggest this token system to prevent something as unpleasant as this from happening to others.

@karma69

No it doesn't change my mind that asking for a token system is selfish. It also doesn't change the fact that you and others are going about the game to farm and because you're not getting what you want sooner, you want everyone else to have a different interaction via these new system requests.

The only issue that exists literally is that the chance results are low so the solution is to increase the chance results "in the current system".

It's not just dungeons that experience the chance results. It's the whole game where loot drops.

People overall don't want tokens for Vet, tokens for normal, tokens for world bosses, tokens for Dolemans, tokens for VMSA, tokens for overworld drops. Heck those who PvP only wanted vendors cause they have hundreds of thousands of AP or TV and nothing to use it for and didn't want it to go to waist.

Understand that after you get beat in slot, you're going to end up with tons of tokens.....so then what? It's a poor and selfish suggestion that doesn't get at the root issues.

There's a reality that the loot tables are the issue. Arguably there's also an issue with the % that certain types of items drop in relation to certain traits.

The entire game only needs one adjustment in terms of RNG. Specific weapon types and specific gear types should only drop with X, Y, Z.

OR

The longer way around it all....The weapons and gear types need to replace a large majority of trait features.

Tokens is just adding another item to a loot table. If you don't like farming in a large RNG table, why would you ask for tokens?

If you want tokens for exact choice items, that's going to be similar to the AP and TV vendors.
So you'd move from one complaint to another but none of this is better or good for everyone if you add tokens so that's a selfish request.

What's good for everyone is addressing the loot tables, trait weapon/gear possibilities and even addressing less or non desired traits.

Royaji · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf I guess I didn't mention this but I never done the dungeons solo. I think I'd rather stop playing the game than do a dungon for 6+ hours a day for 3 days just to get what I need. My runs were always with a 4 man team. On times it would be with a pickup group from zone chat and then other times it would be group finder where I'd tell people what I need to give to me if they don't need it. Many times I got gear that I didn't need and gave it to the other group members that needed the gear.

I'm not sure whether this changes your mind about me being selfish but if it doesn't then I don't have anything else to say.

Grinding for a full BSW Divines body piece for 3 days at 6+ hours a day in a full team is really frustrating, I suggest this token system to prevent something as unpleasant as this from happening to others.

You do understand that you contradict your own statement?

3 days 6+ hours... If we assume you are very good and an average run takes 15 minutes (Which is pretty much impossible for vet HM run, but let's put it in your favor) so 20 hours total. This means you will get 80 tokens. The cost of item is 10-15 tokens in your system. So you can get 5-7 pieces from this grind. Isn't that the exact same grind as the original system in place?

And this all with the odds scaled drastically in favor of the token system. And trust me if ZOS ever introduces a token system the prices will be closer to 50-80 tokens per item at least and more likely to go over a 100. Still think token system is such a good idea?

Bakkagami · February 2017

karma69 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

karma69 wrote: »

The whole community wants a feature like this

Actually, no they don't.

Every time someone comes up with this idea there are many who say NO WAY and who profess a love for RNG-based drops, they claim it makes it more enjoyable.

I don't know what rock you're living under but every player that either does PvP or end game PvE wants this. There was even a thread post yesterday where someone was complaining about the undaaaunted RNG.

The system would remain the same way? Nothing would change in terms of drop rates. The only difference is that you have the option to go for tokens or for RNG in normal dungeons. Please tell what the negatives to this. This would not impact the many people that you claim to hate this feature.

I dont.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Royaji wrote: »

karma69 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf I guess I didn't mention this but I never done the dungeons solo. I think I'd rather stop playing the game than do a dungon for 6+ hours a day for 3 days just to get what I need. My runs were always with a 4 man team. On times it would be with a pickup group from zone chat and then other times it would be group finder where I'd tell people what I need to give to me if they don't need it. Many times I got gear that I didn't need and gave it to the other group members that needed the gear.

I'm not sure whether this changes your mind about me being selfish but if it doesn't then I don't have anything else to say.

Grinding for a full BSW Divines body piece for 3 days at 6+ hours a day in a full team is really frustrating, I suggest this token system to prevent something as unpleasant as this from happening to others.

You do understand that you contradict your own statement?

3 days 6+ hours... If we assume you are very good and an average run takes 15 minutes (Which is pretty much impossible for vet HM run, but let's put it in your favor) so 20 hours total. This means you will get 80 tokens. The cost of item is 10-15 tokens in your system. So you can get 5-7 pieces from this grind. Isn't that the exact same grind as the original system in place?

And this all with the odds scaled drastically in favor of the token system. And trust me if ZOS ever introduces a token system the prices will be closer to 50-80 tokens per item at least and more likely to go over a 100. Still think token system is such a good idea?

@Royaji
No contradiction at all perhaps it's just an inaccurate interpretation. Sorry if anything I wrote above is unclear or misleading.

Over 3 days, I did 1 run each on three different characters. So all in, I spent at most 3 hours total IF one run takes an hour (it didn't but sometimes in randoms, we go thru changing or ppl get kicked or leave) it's a random even when selecting a specific dungeon, the group is randomly assembled.

In general.....any token system for ESO.....
ZOS has not to date designed a system that uses currency and allows a specific item and trait for 10-15 tokens so to speak.

It's be more accurate to consider one run gives 100-1,000 of said currency and you'd need 250,000 to 1,000,000 of that currency to buy a specific item but that vendor would be either in the dungeon all the time and require travel or appear once a week.

Or if it's only a few using your example and you're using 10-15 per item.....that removes the logic of having actual items drop. It's one or the other because this is where it becomes selfish.

Either you're asking to address the system entirely and make big changes or you're instead complicating the issue by extending a complaint and building in another system that will receive complaints.