Trait research times need to be toned down

OutLaw_Nynx · February 2017

No

No.

I spent my time to research it. It was long and boring but you can do it too. Just because people can't to master writs because they never bothered to do research it shouldn't be reduced.

Sinthrax · February 2017

No

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yes it does.
To those saying not or that you had to do it the long way......
Stop

That's dumb

Why would you want ppl to not have opportunities to participate in buying and selling or progressing

Ideally if they wanted to make the ESO plus benefit worth a dang....it should reduce all to 8 24 hours each

Outside of ESO Plus, it never should exceed 5 days

So now I'm dumb and you don't know me. I would say what I think your way is but the post would just get deleted.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

No

"Need" to be toned down? Not really "needed". It wouldn't hurt my feelings if a month was shaved off, but it's a zero effort endeavor. The timer still ticks while logged out, not a huge deal.

What is ~90 days to an MMO player?

Cpt_Teemo · February 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

"Need" to be toned down? Not really "needed". It wouldn't hurt my feelings if a month was shaved off, but it's a zero effort endeavor. The timer still ticks while logged out, not a huge deal.

What is ~90 days to an MMO player?

45$ if it was still a subbed based game

leepalmer95 · February 2017

No

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

"Need" to be toned down? Not really "needed". It wouldn't hurt my feelings if a month was shaved off, but it's a zero effort endeavor. The timer still ticks while logged out, not a huge deal.

What is ~90 days to an MMO player?

45$ if it was still a subbed based game

Which it isn't.

Tapio75 · February 2017

No

No, they need to stay as they are.

raj72616a · February 2017

No

you use monster helm set for head and shoulder, so you dont have to research these two.

research dagger and ignore the other one handed weapons.
research maul and ignore the other two handed weapons.

there. 50% cut to your total research time.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2017

raj72616a wrote: »

you use monster helm set for head and shoulder, so you dont have to research these two.

research dagger and ignore the other one handed weapons.
research maul and ignore the other two handed weapons.

there. 50% cut to your total research time.

What they should have done was made Traits / Motifs account wide in the first place tbh.

Might as well since everyone knows the Master Writs drop nearly at all the same going rate from 0 achieves to full.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

No

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

"Need" to be toned down? Not really "needed". It wouldn't hurt my feelings if a month was shaved off, but it's a zero effort endeavor. The timer still ticks while logged out, not a huge deal.

What is ~90 days to an MMO player?

45$ if it was still a subbed based game

True, but who's really sitting around waiting for your crafting skills to all be at 9 traits before they start playing the game?

That $45 goes towards everything that comes with the game in a sub-only MMO, not just one aspect.

For ESO, 90 days of sub-fee also equals 4500 crowns and faster progression, including traits research.

STEVIL · February 2017

Yes

Having already done it once i think it should be changed.

1 It is dead time. Delays like this when in a game help to get folks logging in regularly but when it gets to weeks or months it fails that goal.

2 Its alt-hostile.

3 its incinsistent with other timeframes per gain in the game.

4 it goes reverse of any sense (in game you do the powerful triats quickly first then takes forever to get the last and least useful) and irl (does not take longer to learn with more experience at learning)

Imo i week per trait but each item fed in cuts down 1 day each down to one day.

Or something like that.

disintegr8 · February 2017

Based on the benefits that come from being a nine trait crafter, they could allow you to have them all learned inside a month without negatively impacting anyone else.

I am someone who has completed all of the research on one character and would rather see there be improved benefits for the time and effort it takes rather than reduce the research times. As it stands, nobody needs crafted set armour as there are better or 'as good as' dropped sets out there.

Maybe 9 trait crafters can be allowed to improve jewelry, change traits or styles on dropped items, or some other reward.

Linaleah · February 2017

Yes

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

its the whole "walked up hill, in a snow, both ways, barefoot" mentality. I have suffered, now you should suffer as well.

and by the way, when counting the time it takes to research the traits? one should account for human factor. aka, vast majority of people will not have an alarm clock reminding them "log in now, make it quick to the crafting station and queue up your next trait research" not to mention immediate acess to the game. also.. vast majority of people start doing research before they have unlocked all the passives that both speed up research AND allow you to research 3 traits at once. which means that in actuality? it will take even longer than mathematical models assuming best possible case scenario.

at a minimum, IMO - the time to research needs to be halved. I mean.. I have played mobile games that at highest levels - don't take as long to build things (assuming you don't pay to speed them up) as ESO's 8th and 9th traits.

akl77 · February 2017

Yes

Yes, should be halved the current time.

Paraflex · February 2017

No

After homestead the release of master writs people all of a sudden realize the value in master crafters? Sounds like your wanting to short cut the process that not many people have done....9 traits take a long time for a reason keep it the way it is.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Yes

Sinthrax wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yes it does.
To those saying not or that you had to do it the long way......
Stop

That's dumb

Why would you want ppl to not have opportunities to participate in buying and selling or progressing

Ideally if they wanted to make the ESO plus benefit worth a dang....it should reduce all to 8 24 hours each

Outside of ESO Plus, it never should exceed 5 days

So now I'm dumb and you don't know me. I would say what I think your way is but the post would just get deleted.

@Sinthrax

I don't know you but your comment above.....well....let's make sure you read my comment first.

I wrote that those saying everyone needs to do it the long way is dumb. I didn't call anyone dumb.

bebynnag · February 2017

No

no

because if for no other reason the non crafters who 'demand' things from their crafters may now finally realise just how much time/effort/money goes into becoming a master crafter and begin to show their crafting buddies the respect they deserve!

GawdSB · February 2017

Yes

Only people saying no are the ones that been playing forever and have been able to research all the traits. I've been researching since I've started playing. It's ridiculous how long this takes.

FloppyTouch · February 2017

No

Does not take that long to get to 6 trait then u can craft most of the sets you need to pve and farm to pvp or end game pve and while ur doing that stuff you learn the long traits 7-9 it's not a big deal

UrQuan · February 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

its the whole "walked up hill, in a snow, both ways, barefoot" mentality. I have suffered, now you should suffer as well.

No. It's more analogous to someone who spent years getting the certification they needed in order to get gainful employment in their chosen field (which doesn't have a lot of paying jobs to begin with), and they don't want the certification to become a quick rubber stamp that requires no time/effort to get because then there'll be too many people competing for too few jobs.

You need to recognize that allowing traits to be researched quickly would actively be taking away one of the ways dedicated master crafters have of making gold. It's not just a silly "I suffered so other people should suffer" mentality, it's something that is actively bad for the people who already put in the time.

Also, as I've already mentioned, the trait research time is the only thing stopping people like me from getting our armies of alts to do tons of writs and have great chances of getting tons of master writs. I mean I already have 8 characters doing max-level writs per day - if I could easily and quickly research traits to increase my chances of having master writs drop I'd increase that to 28 characters.

That would have 2 effects: first the master writ market would be saturated, and those people who put in a ton of time to get their 1 character to be a master crafter would lose their ability to make a decent amount of gold off the master writs they get. Second, the master writ drop rates would get reduced to make up for everyone with lots of alts getting master writ vouchers far quicker than intended. Do you want those things to happen?

Tabbycat · February 2017

No

Only if they start adding a lot more traits to research. I don't think anyone wants to be researching a single trait for six months.

SaRuZ · February 2017

No

Lynx7386 wrote: »

At the very least, crafted sets need to be worth the effort it takes to do all that research.

Right now only a small handful of crafted sets are any good, and even those are just brief stepping stones to the far superior dropped or pvp sets

^^^ This guys idea and contribution is much better than OP's.

idk · February 2017

No

UrQuan wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

How exactly does research time change depending on the order in which you choose to do them? When you stack every trait, you still get the same overall research time, regardless of order. Or is my brain completely useless today?

It's because the maximum number of traits you can research at a time is 3, but the total number of items that you can research traits on is not divisible by 3 (well, not for blacksmithing or clothing anyway). So if you research all 9 traits on 3 items at a time, and then move on to researching all 9 traits on the next 3 items, and continue that way you'll end up wasting 1 of your 3 research slots when you get to the last 2 items that you haven't yet researched any traits on.

The time required would be the same if a player chose to research 1 trait per item for all items then moved to two traits, etc, vs taking 3 pieces of gear and researching them to conclusion and then moving onto

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yes it does.
To those saying not or that you had to do it the long way......
Stop

That's dumb

Why would you want ppl to not have opportunities to participate in buying and selling or progressing

Ideally if they wanted to make the ESO plus benefit worth a dang....it should reduce all to 8 24 hours each

Outside of ESO Plus, it never should exceed 5 days

@NewBlacksmurf

So those of us that started this game, well, before this year, and researched everything and feel that it should not be changed are dumb?

I can see someone having a desire for it to be shortened when they are just starting out, though that is not a justification. but to take such a hard stance on it as you have is either entitlement or, well I will leave it with a nicer description.

There has been no justification in this thread for changing the design other than it takes longer than I want it to. Three years ago a much more solid justification for faster research times could be made vs today. 3 years ago the only way to craft some gear was having the traits researched. Today, that is no longer the case since anyone on any of the servers can get the gear crafted by someone. If they are not in a guild it would be a great reason to start considering a guild, to find a crafter.

Granted, someone may come up with a justification I have not thought of. Would be interested in hearing a sound reason.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

Yes

SaRuZ wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

At the very least, crafted sets need to be worth the effort it takes to do all that research.

Right now only a small handful of crafted sets are any good, and even those are just brief stepping stones to the far superior dropped or pvp sets

^^^ This guys idea and contribution is much better than OP's.

Yet everyone else seems to be ignoring it, lol

Korah_Eaglecry · February 2017

No

If they were to add more traits I could see it becoming a serious pain. But right now its not that bad.

UrQuan · February 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

How exactly does research time change depending on the order in which you choose to do them? When you stack every trait, you still get the same overall research time, regardless of order. Or is my brain completely useless today?

It's because the maximum number of traits you can research at a time is 3, but the total number of items that you can research traits on is not divisible by 3 (well, not for blacksmithing or clothing anyway). So if you research all 9 traits on 3 items at a time, and then move on to researching all 9 traits on the next 3 items, and continue that way you'll end up wasting 1 of your 3 research slots when you get to the last 2 items that you haven't yet researched any traits on.

The time required would be the same if a player chose to research 1 trait per item for all items then moved to two traits, etc, vs taking 3 pieces of gear and researching them to conclusion and then moving onto

That would only be true if the number of items to research traits on was divisible by 3. So for woodworking it doesn't make any difference. For blacksmithing or clothing it makes a significant difference. Do the math and you'll see.

xeNNNNN · February 2017

Yes

I think people here are thinking in extremes.

Im pretty sure most who voted no are thinking in two ways:

a) "I" had to wait months and months to complete my trait lists why should anyone else have it easier?
My response: Dont be so selfish and arrogant. You sound like people who were born decades ago and if some of you are then frankly, act your age.

b) if they nerf its going to be too easy!
My response: What? just because the words "nerf" and "reduce" are used it does not automatically mean that something will be nerfed to the point where its too easy or useless to use. A little would be better than nothing if they were to do it at all.

Why does it need to be reduced?

Because not everyone has master crafting friends and people can burn out quickly if the progression does not have a reasonable speed especially when its out of the players hands.

Lets have a little what if scenario shall we?:

I was about to quit the game, I had ideas for end game builds I wanted to try and I had and knew nobody who could craft them for me and nobody in zones were willing to doing it without paying stupid amounts of gold that I didnt have, WHAT IF I had not met some people who could and were willing to do it for free? I would of quit.

Ive actually known people who've quit because the games gear progression system is so restrictive that it just widdles down peoples willingness to engage in crafting at all which is a core part of the game and so they quit and they haven't come back.

What justifiable reason is there to take 2 seconds to set up research and then wait a month or longer to use said trait? There is no middle ground for it, no quick payment to increase the speed of researching traits there is nothing to incentive's researching at all. I also think a lot of you want to keep your little flow of income too especially with housing so a lot of you are being massively biased and not objective.

Like it or not, you are not the only ones who play this game "master crafters" and honestly if you take your title as a sign of accomplishment thats great but others having it a little easier or better than you did does not automatically mean what you've done has been erased or is lesser for it and really, if you're of the mind of viewpoint "A" then you're just stupid.

Its like saying this "oh I went too war, I bled and fought for my country how dare these people I have come home to have it easier than I did!" - It makes no sense. Only difference is your war was time nothing more nothing less. There are plenty of "oh i wish i had this in the beginning like they do " scenarios too but its all bull. As another user pointed out, things change so deal with it.

Synfaer · February 2017

No

GawdSB wrote: »

Only people saying no are the ones that been playing forever and have been able to research all the traits. I've been researching since I've started playing. It's ridiculous how long this takes.

There was not much benefit to knowing all 9 traits unless you wanted to craft TBS for yourself, so many people did not bother. Now, knowing lots of traits has some value and those that could be bothered are reaping a small benefit, so good on them.
The Homestead patch contained a lot of new content for those people who enjoy the crafting aspect of the game, these people are also the most likely to have crafting characters who have maxed their craft skills & achievements and as such gained an advantage with master writs being introduced.
It gives crafters an avenue to make money as well for a change (no.. gathering & selling raw mats is not crafting) so it should have some sort of 'firewall' to stop everyone jumping on the bandwagon immediately.Trait research is only a small advantage, let them have it.

Chronicburn · February 2017

Yes

On one hand I'd love to see times reduced for my benefit ... but doesn't that kind of screw over everyone who waited in line and entered the country legally?

UrQuan · February 2017

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I think people here are thinking in extremes.

Im pretty sure most who voted no are thinking in two ways:

I'm pretty sure you should have read the thread to see what people are actually saying, instead of just randomly making assumptions about what they're thinking.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

a) "I" had to wait months and months to complete my trait lists why should anyone else have it easier?
My response: Dont be so selfish and arrogant. You sound like people who were born decades ago and if some of you are then frankly, act your age.

And this is why you really should have read the thread. Because you clearly have no idea what the issue is, otherwise you wouldn't be spouting this nonsense. Come back when you've read the thread and have something to say about the points people are actually making instead of the things people are saying in your imagination.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

b) if they nerf its going to be too easy!
My response: What? just because the words "nerf" and "reduce" are used it does not automatically mean that something will be nerfed to the point where its too easy or useless to use. A little would be better than nothing if they were to do it at all.

Again, you're showing why you really should have read the thread before posting. If you had read the thread you would have seen that the original title of the thread was calling for a major nerf, not just a small correction. When OP was wondering why people were assuming it would be a massive nerf, it was pointed out to him (by me) that the reason was because of the thread title, and subsequently he edited the title to remove that language. But of course, by then there were already a ton of posts written on the assumption the OP was asking for a very large nerf (because he had been asking for that in the thread title, even if his actual post hadn't specified the size of the nerf). I doubt most people would be concerned with a relatively small reduction in research times.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I also think a lot of you want to keep your little flow of income too especially with housing so a lot of you are being massively biased and not objective.

So you think it's OK to take away a revenue stream from people who have put in the time and effort to be able to make gold from crafting? You think it would be fair to destroy what little crafting economy there is (after all, if everyone can easily be a 9-trait crafter then nobody is paying anyone to craft TBS)? You think it would be fair to give altaholics like myself a massive advantage over everyone else when it comes to master writs, and probably force ZOS to nerf the master writ drop rate?

Ourorboros · February 2017

Yes

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

The way you have it laid is not the most efficient way to research all of the traits.

The way you have it listed above, for both blacksmithing and clothing you've got 1 research slot sitting idle for a full 88 days. If you do it properly, it's only when you're down to researching your last two traits for a craft that you'll have a research slot idle.

That means that you don't research every trait for 3 items, then move on to research every trait for the next 3 items. Instead you research the first trait for 3 items, then the first trait for the next 3 items, and so on. You'll end up with staggered research times for some of your research slots, and the only time any slot will be idle is when you're down to researching your last 2 traits.

Also, you're not taking into account ESO plus, which makes a significant difference in the total amount of time. Taking 27 days to research the 9th trait on an item rather than 30 days is a big deal, even without taking into account all of the time savings along the way to getting to the 9th trait.

Plus, let's be honest. You can power-level everything else for crafting. The fact that it takes a long time to become a 9-trait crafter is the only thing stopping someone who's never crafted before from overnight becoming just as good at crafting as someone who's been crafting since launch.

And, the resulting research time is hilariously inflated as a result. As I recall, we were actually seeing the first full nine trait crafters before ESO+ was a thing. Which puts it at under a 10 months. Again, 6 to 7, with an efficient pattern sounds about right.

As one of the very first to complete 9 traits on one crafter, I can say unequivocally ESO+ kicked in only during the last month of research. It took me just shy of 13 months. I imagine with ESO+ it can now be done in about a year, not really less than than (6 to 7 months is a ridiculous suggestion..cannot be done). No matter how diligent with starting research as soon as a slot opens, every crafter will eventually loose time to scheduled/unscheduled maintenance.

I voted yes, as I never want to take that long to research and a modest reduction seemed reasonable. But as long as it takes 6 months to fully train a horse, then a full year to reach 9 traits seems about the right time. Just stop making nirn so rare since it's a bloody worthless trait anyway.