Getting kicked from Veteran Dungeons

mewcatus · February 2017

derpmander wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?

Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.

Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.

IronCrystal · February 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

derpmander wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?

Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.

Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.

Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?

No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?

What do you even do?

Volrion · February 2017

jakeyura wrote: »

For the people asking about my build I'm DPS Stamina NB with 5 piece Spriggans, 5 piece Hundings rage. Medium 5-1-1 setup, run max Stam/health food and tristat potions.

Dual wield Sharpened Spriggans swords (gold)
Use flurry, steel tornado, surprise attack, ambush,

2h on back bar for buffs/vigor/Rally

And like I said, it really doesn't matter what my build is/does because I get kicked before I get the chance to attack something

That's over 1m gold spent on gear! How did you farm all that gold/gear and only have 180cp?

If you have enough gold to buy gear like that, why not buy an infused helm from the vendor in Cyrodiil when it rotates through?

Seems a bit fishy to me... But let's say you're telling the truth, if you have the commitment to grind all that gold/gear then surely you'd know it'll only take a couple of weeks to hit 300+cp and your problem will be solved.

Xp pots + training gear and go hit a grind spot while it's quiet.

Or do what I did when I was low CP; Queue for random normals while you're enlightened and you'll catch up in no time.

As a few others have said, once you're 300+ you will probably be fine with all vet pugs.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??

Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.

I think we need to understand, most people doing random dungeons or queuing for specific dungeons probably wont be fully geared and looking for their set items or exp so is a far cry from trials healing.

TBh i think people should expect the worst and go into a dungeon prepared to self sustain, heavy attack when low, drink a pot, whatever, fights are over so quick anyway unless as what post was talking about players like OP who are prob not ready for Vet DLC dungeons.

I que as a healer on my stamplar. with only major brutality/major mending my vigor gives 9k/sec. you'd have to get 1 shot to die. Been doing it for months without a single complaint, aside from 1 tsnk saying at first he panicked when he saw my bow.

I guess my point is, is that expecting someone to join your team and only cast healing springs just reinforces the mentality that it's ok to play like *** and not try. You don't need a healer to stay alive in any vet dungeon.

derpmander · February 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

derpmander wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?

Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.

Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.

Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?

No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?

What do you even do?

Lol he probs only healed in baby nMoL and vet pledges where u can snore past everything.

soll · February 2017

Titansteele wrote: »

Join a nice guild, it is better to play with friends than with yourself ........

this. Dungeoning can be so nice with friends/guildies and so stupid with pugs. make your life easier!

most of casual guilds would help you without any problems. We are usually taking new low cp players with us through vet dailies.

Tonnopesce · February 2017

Because power creep that's why.
Now that we are at 600cp you can get 2 full bonus per tree and is a lot more damage than someone with just 60 per tree.

Join a guild.

Vaoh · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

If I'm using group finder amd things turn out this bad, I run a setup much more suited for solo dungeons. In other words:

(Im a Mag Sorc)
- Replace 1-2 IA/Moondancer Spell Damage enchanted rings with IA/Moondancer Magicka Recovery enchanted rings
- Replace Velocious Curse (now Haunting Curse) with Elemental Drain
- Replace a double-barred Inner Light or Mages Wrath execute with Power Surge
- Replace backbarred Fiery Rage with Overload

This way I can deal lots of damage, sustain myself, and never need the healer to worry about me which in turn makes their job easier.

MakoFore · February 2017

it sucks, i feel for you mate. the culture is unfortunate - my first experiences were terrible- for similar circumstances as yours- learn to play messages and so on, low dps in the chat. i didn't do a single dungeon from level 1 to cp 250 after that, until i met some friends to run with .

as others have said- best thing is to join a guild- run with people that are wiling and patient - and its more fun. I'm always sceptical of people that have reached a certain cp- say cp450 and above- and DONT have any guild mates to run with. that to me is indicative of the kind of people that they are- that they've played for a year or so and havent made any friends to do dungeons with.

so dont take it personal- and as a slight against you- its them. people are insecure and afraid of being exposed and vulnerable. we prefer to be on the team with thats guaranteed to win- rather than be the actual underdog and test ourselves- more often than not.

MakoFore · February 2017

my only other comment is- remember what it was like to be a lower level- and when u get to be high level- help out those and be patient as you wanted the vets to be when u were new. I've seen it too often where once people become elite- the become elitist. which is a shame.

failkiwib16_ESO · February 2017

The helmet in Fungal Grotto 1 is also good for stamina builds, it's extremely easy to farm, so people don't kick low cp players for it that much.

To be honest the best advice people have given you here is to join a guild, and farm the dungeons with friends & guildies. Friends & Guildies are more willing to share loot, more patient, take their time to explain bosses and don't rush like maniacs.

kargen27 · February 2017

"It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me."
______________________________

You should easily be able to work some resource management into your rotation and still have plenty of magicka to keep up buffs and heals.

DPS is based in part on the amount of resources you have so if it helps you can look at helping sustain resources as just another buff to DPS. When I am geared fully for healing it makes more sense to help the DPS to sustain than it does for me to try and contribute some DPS of my own. Of course it is all situation based and if it is obvious the group isn't going to need constant upkeep with healing I can put on a DPS skill and help.

Bottom line if you have the magicka to spare, don't. Sure keep enough in reserve that you can emergency heal those oh $#!+ moments other than that you are wasting group potential if you aren't taking full advantage of everything a healer can do.

t3hdubzy · February 2017

Ive given tons of lower level players chances most who dont admit ita their first time, and usually 2 hrs later i end up giving up, or falling asleep.

Just saying when its a pug, u prefer max level players because u already have the pug going against you.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

"It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me."
______________________________

You should easily be able to work some resource management into your rotation and still have plenty of magicka to keep up buffs and heals.

DPS is based in part on the amount of resources you have so if it helps you can look at helping sustain resources as just another buff to DPS. When I am geared fully for healing it makes more sense to help the DPS to sustain than it does for me to try and contribute some DPS of my own. Of course it is all situation based and if it is obvious the group isn't going to need constant upkeep with healing I can put on a DPS skill and help.

Bottom line if you have the magicka to spare, don't. Sure keep enough in reserve that you can emergency heal those oh $#!+ moments other than that you are wasting group potential if you aren't taking full advantage of everything a healer can do.

Problem with your setups is when I form a group I have to consider a couple things. Would the group benefit more from a healer buffing the group dps with things like combat prayer, spc, IA, warhorn, and probably shard for the tank, or maybe some bosses.

Or would I be better off taking in a 3rd dps.

Most healers have your attitude and are generally useless group members. Option 2 often gives is the most predictable and consistent positive outcome. Healers are not vital, suffer from extreme undeserved self importance, contribute little to nothing to the group, typically have bad attitudes, and from what I've seen on ps4 na, most people only make healers so thy'll get accepted into groups instead of having to l2p.

I already don't like this guy. -.-

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lost boss of Selenes is 100% tank dependent. If you have a tank that knows how to follow basic mechanics, its not hard. Problem is that this is one of the few bosses in group dungeons that can one shot a well geared tank while they are blocking.

Actually, that's a good point. I said earlier that there should be no problem with doing that dungeon on vet with low CP people, but if I was in a group where the tank was low CP I might be concerned (while I wouldn't be with low CP DPS). Not because a low CP tank wouldn't have the stats or abilities to do the dungeon, but because they're likely to be inexperienced and have trouble in that fight. Heck, even experienced tanks can get one-shotted there if they slip up just a little.

@UrQuan
It's honestly the only fight in all of the 4 man dungeons where, as a tank, I have to psych myself up. You got this, pay attention, doge roll, crap... Haha

It's particularly demoralizing because I think I personally should not take damage from Bears, but that's probably my own issue.

Artis · February 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

False. It is the healer's job to do that. Your mindset is a mindset of a bad healer. The whole point of encounters is to kill enemies. The faster you kill, the faster you can proceed and the more you can do. Moreover, you can outdps some mechanics and thus maximize the chance of success/minimize the chance of failure.

The idea is that a group must balance sustain, survivability and DPS in order to maximize DPS and have enough of the other two. IF you wanna just heal staying with full magicka because people don't take that much dmg - you're a waste of slot. If you don't give sustain and don't want your DPS to maximize their DPS and kill stuff faster- you are a burden for your group.

If you aren't buffing - then what are you doing? Overhealing?

Most dungeons can be completed with 4 DPS. A healer who is just healing and a tank who is just surviving are bad healer and tank.

parkham · February 2017

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

[..]Friends & Guildies are more willing to share loot, more patient, take their time to explain bosses and don't rush like maniacs.

I just started doing dungeons and encountered this during a pick up group (pug) veteran Level City of Ash. It was the best I could just to keep up and I had no idea what was next..buff, tank, run!

No one talked, and no one stood still for less than a minute - for anything. I guess I did OK tanking (I'm new), no one died or said anything!

My guess is they probably could have done it without me anyway. They were all > 555 and I was 150.

parkham · February 2017

Artis wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

[..]

Most dungeons can be completed with 4 DPS. A healer who is just healing and a tank who is just surviving are bad healer and tank.

I just started an am trying to take that to heart regarding tanking. Try to provide as much synergies and debuffs as possible.

Danksta · February 2017

Artis wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

False. It is the healer's job to do that. Your mindset is a mindset of a bad healer. The whole point of encounters is to kill enemies. The faster you kill, the faster you can proceed and the more you can do. Moreover, you can outdps some mechanics and thus maximize the chance of success/minimize the chance of failure.

The idea is that a group must balance sustain, survivability and DPS in order to maximize DPS and have enough of the other two. IF you wanna just heal staying with full magicka because people don't take that much dmg - you're a waste of slot. If you don't give sustain and don't want your DPS to maximize their DPS and kill stuff faster- you are a burden for your group.

If you aren't buffing - then what are you doing? Overhealing?

Most dungeons can be completed with 4 DPS. A healer who is just healing and a tank who is just surviving are bad healer and tank.

I'm picturing him throwing up some HoTs and then busting out a deck of cards for a relaxing game of solitaire.

kargen27 · February 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me."
______________________________

You should easily be able to work some resource management into your rotation and still have plenty of magicka to keep up buffs and heals.

DPS is based in part on the amount of resources you have so if it helps you can look at helping sustain resources as just another buff to DPS. When I am geared fully for healing it makes more sense to help the DPS to sustain than it does for me to try and contribute some DPS of my own. Of course it is all situation based and if it is obvious the group isn't going to need constant upkeep with healing I can put on a DPS skill and help.

Bottom line if you have the magicka to spare, don't. Sure keep enough in reserve that you can emergency heal those oh $#!+ moments other than that you are wasting group potential if you aren't taking full advantage of everything a healer can do.

Problem with your setups is when I form a group I have to consider a couple things. Would the group benefit more from a healer buffing the group dps with things like combat prayer, spc, IA, warhorn, and probably shard for the tank, or maybe some bosses.

Or would I be better off taking in a 3rd dps.

Most healers have your attitude and are generally useless group members. Option 2 often gives is the most predictable and consistent positive outcome. Healers are not vital, suffer from extreme undeserved self importance, contribute little to nothing to the group, typically have bad attitudes, and from what I've seen on ps4 na, most people only make healers so thy'll get accepted into groups instead of having to l2p.

I already don't like this guy. -.-

Swing and a miss. I said the healer should do whatever helps the group most. I just used a few more words to do it. I messed up when I tried to post a quote so I copied and pasted what I wanted to reply to (above the line) and responded (below the line). I thought the quotations and separation using the line would make that clear. Jump into vDSA or vet trials and let me know how useless those healers are. I know there is a difference in dungeons and trials but the dungeons are where you go to as you put it "l2p".

scorpiodog · February 2017

jakeyura wrote: »

Been trying to get a monster helm but every time I queue I get kicked instantly. I'm cp 180 and have most of my items gold with good base stats. Do other players think I'm trash at the game because I'm not cp 600?

Also I think it's rediculous that I'm getting kicked and am being punished with a 15 minute probation for something that is out of my control.

Players that kick other players often should receive the punishment.

I'm not an elitist - I'm under 400 CP
But I did notice a huge difference when I tried to do Trials at 180 and when I tried again at about 250. I know neither COS nor Selenes are trials, but COS is pretty difficult and the final boss might compare to a trial boss.

Atherol · February 2017

Hi,

It happened to me many times when I was at 160-430. It has also happened to me
now when at the end on main boss. My only explanation is that there are groups of
people that bring their friends in to get the monster helms. ZOZ has been advised
informed many times of it and is not doing much. My solution is that groups should
not be able to kick people, but to only dissolve groups, that will make people think
twice about doing it and force them to play together 'till the end.

The lame excuse for kicking people is that dungeons are harder with lower
cp's...In their minds people will have to play only normal dungeons till well into
the 400 or 500's...before they even attempt to play a veteran dungeon!

Best,

Atherol

I

jakeyura wrote: »

Been trying to get a monster helm but every time I queue I get kicked instantly. I'm cp 180 and have most of my items gold with good base stats. Do other players think I'm trash at the game because I'm not cp 600?

Also I think it's rediculous that I'm getting kicked and am being punished with a 15 minute probation for something that is out of my control.

Players that kick other players often should receive the punishment.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me."
______________________________

You should easily be able to work some resource management into your rotation and still have plenty of magicka to keep up buffs and heals.

DPS is based in part on the amount of resources you have so if it helps you can look at helping sustain resources as just another buff to DPS. When I am geared fully for healing it makes more sense to help the DPS to sustain than it does for me to try and contribute some DPS of my own. Of course it is all situation based and if it is obvious the group isn't going to need constant upkeep with healing I can put on a DPS skill and help.

Bottom line if you have the magicka to spare, don't. Sure keep enough in reserve that you can emergency heal those oh $#!+ moments other than that you are wasting group potential if you aren't taking full advantage of everything a healer can do.

Problem with your setups is when I form a group I have to consider a couple things. Would the group benefit more from a healer buffing the group dps with things like combat prayer, spc, IA, warhorn, and probably shard for the tank, or maybe some bosses.

Or would I be better off taking in a 3rd dps.

Most healers have your attitude and are generally useless group members. Option 2 often gives is the most predictable and consistent positive outcome. Healers are not vital, suffer from extreme undeserved self importance, contribute little to nothing to the group, typically have bad attitudes, and from what I've seen on ps4 na, most people only make healers so thy'll get accepted into groups instead of having to l2p.

I already don't like this guy. -.-

Swing and a miss. I said the healer should do whatever helps the group most. I just used a few more words to do it. I messed up when I tried to post a quote so I copied and pasted what I wanted to reply to (above the line) and responded (below the line). I thought the quotations and separation using the line would make that clear. Jump into vDSA or vet trials and let me know how useless those healers are. I know there is a difference in dungeons and trials but the dungeons are where you go to as you put it "l2p".

I already did my l2p aeons ago. We do vdsa 3dps/1tank. Trials healers are also all about buffs/group sustain. If they sat in a corner amd only healed they'd probably be traded out for one that works. Am I missing something?

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · February 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??

Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.

I think we need to understand, most people doing random dungeons or queuing for specific dungeons probably wont be fully geared and looking for their set items or exp so is a far cry from trials healing.

TBh i think people should expect the worst and go into a dungeon prepared to self sustain, heavy attack when low, drink a pot, whatever, fights are over so quick anyway unless as what post was talking about players like OP who are prob not ready for Vet DLC dungeons.

I que as a healer on my stamplar. with only major brutality/major mending my vigor gives 9k/sec. you'd have to get 1 shot to die. Been doing it for months without a single complaint, aside from 1 tsnk saying at first he panicked when he saw my bow.

I guess my point is, is that expecting someone to join your team and only cast healing springs just reinforces the mentality that it's ok to play like *** and not try. You don't need a healer to stay alive in any vet dungeon.

@Ep1kMalware
Ok I'm calling you out on this 9k vigour tick. Please prove it or something.
With just rally, major mending you get 9k tick? That's hard to believe.

My tank in heavy armour - passives healing received, 5% into blessed and 5% into quick recovery (so 10% extra), major mending 25%, hardened armour 12% healing received from skill line. I think my vigour crit for almost 5k. Granted my WD will be lower as a tank but I really struggle to believe that you just in DPS gear with major, rally can get 9k ticks on a regular basis with no problem.

Unless do you have 25% into blessed, 25% quick recovery and some other stuff? Because 9k tick is pretty nuts especially if you do it on a regular basis like you claim, i.e. Not a one off with, alchemist, spc, kena, warhorn and other buffs etc as a one off tick.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??

Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.

I think we need to understand, most people doing random dungeons or queuing for specific dungeons probably wont be fully geared and looking for their set items or exp so is a far cry from trials healing.

TBh i think people should expect the worst and go into a dungeon prepared to self sustain, heavy attack when low, drink a pot, whatever, fights are over so quick anyway unless as what post was talking about players like OP who are prob not ready for Vet DLC dungeons.

I que as a healer on my stamplar. with only major brutality/major mending my vigor gives 9k/sec. you'd have to get 1 shot to die. Been doing it for months without a single complaint, aside from 1 tsnk saying at first he panicked when he saw my bow.

I guess my point is, is that expecting someone to join your team and only cast healing springs just reinforces the mentality that it's ok to play like *** and not try. You don't need a healer to stay alive in any vet dungeon.

@Ep1kMalware
Ok I'm calling you out on this 9k vigour tick. Please prove it or something.
With just rally, major mending you get 9k tick? That's hard to believe.

My tank in heavy armour - passives healing received, 5% into blessed and 5% into quick recovery (so 10% extra), major mending 25%, hardened armour 12% healing received from skill line. I think my vigour crit for almost 5k. Granted my WD will be lower as a tank but I really struggle to believe that you just in DPS gear with major, rally can get 9k ticks on a regular basis with no problem.

Unless do you have 25% into blessed, 25% quick recovery and some other stuff? Because 9k tick is pretty nuts especially if you do it on a regular basis like you claim, i.e. Not a one off with, alchemist, spc, kena, warhorn and other buffs etc as a one off tick.

I just use a weapon power pot (no room on my bar for hidden blade), 35 quick recovery, 65% crit, restoring focus (gives an additional 8% healing recieved, 8% damage reduction, 5200 magic/phys resistence)

Also 100 into might, 48 thaumaturge, 2 precise strikes, and the rest into the other one that gives additional crit damage for damage/heals. Also templar passively recieves 10% critical damage as well.

With major brutality I think I'm at 3900 (havent actually looked since homestead patch) weapon dmg, and 40.1k max stamina.

If I pop my rune and cast vigor I get a heal for 5200 and a simultaneous heal for 3800. Giving 9k. I also get heals from empowered bloodcraze, and empowered rend. Can also proc kena for even moar heals. This isn't rocket science >.<

On the topic, I find I get more dot mitigation by putting more into quick recovery and less into thickskinned. Got 20 in there.

Edit: I see you mentioned something about rally too. I don't use it. My typical setup for dungeons is 5automaton, 3vicious jewelry (gold), 2 kena, maelstrom axe, dagger, master bow. All gear gold divines. when I use rally it always brings me to full hp. I *can* use it to outheal planar imhibitor blue phase tho. Save rend for that final oh *** moment at the end. But if you miss a bladecloak or a restoring focus it's gf. And a dps loss. Use carve to build ulti to 205, proc kena, use flury to empower rend. Master bow will empower it firther so you're adding like 3.3k wd just to rend on top of vicious buff.

Remember rune+cloak reduces aoe damage 28%

Recovering life is easy. Just don't eat 1 shots.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · February 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??

Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.

I think we need to understand, most people doing random dungeons or queuing for specific dungeons probably wont be fully geared and looking for their set items or exp so is a far cry from trials healing.

TBh i think people should expect the worst and go into a dungeon prepared to self sustain, heavy attack when low, drink a pot, whatever, fights are over so quick anyway unless as what post was talking about players like OP who are prob not ready for Vet DLC dungeons.

I que as a healer on my stamplar. with only major brutality/major mending my vigor gives 9k/sec. you'd have to get 1 shot to die. Been doing it for months without a single complaint, aside from 1 tsnk saying at first he panicked when he saw my bow.

I guess my point is, is that expecting someone to join your team and only cast healing springs just reinforces the mentality that it's ok to play like *** and not try. You don't need a healer to stay alive in any vet dungeon.

@Ep1kMalware
Ok I'm calling you out on this 9k vigour tick. Please prove it or something.
With just rally, major mending you get 9k tick? That's hard to believe.

My tank in heavy armour - passives healing received, 5% into blessed and 5% into quick recovery (so 10% extra), major mending 25%, hardened armour 12% healing received from skill line. I think my vigour crit for almost 5k. Granted my WD will be lower as a tank but I really struggle to believe that you just in DPS gear with major, rally can get 9k ticks on a regular basis with no problem.

Unless do you have 25% into blessed, 25% quick recovery and some other stuff? Because 9k tick is pretty nuts especially if you do it on a regular basis like you claim, i.e. Not a one off with, alchemist, spc, kena, warhorn and other buffs etc as a one off tick.

I just use a weapon power pot (no room on my bar for hidden blade), 35 quick recovery, 65% crit, restoring focus (gives an additional 8% healing recieved, 8% damage reduction, 5200 magic/phys resistence)

Also 100 into might, 48 thaumaturge, 2 precise strikes, and the rest into the other one that gives additional crit damage for damage/heals. Also templar passively recieves 10% critical damage as well.

With major brutality I think I'm at 3900 (havent actually looked since homestead patch) weapon dmg, and 40.1k max stamina.

If I pop my rune and cast vigor I get a heal for 5200 and a simultaneous heal for 3800. Giving 9k. I also get heals from empowered bloodcraze, and empowered rend. Can also proc kena for even moar heals. This isn't rocket science >.<

On the topic, I find I get more dot mitigation by putting more into quick recovery and less into thickskinned. Got 20 in there.

Edit: I see you mentioned something about rally too. I don't use it. My typical setup for dungeons is 5automaton, 3vicious jewelry (gold), 2 kena, maelstrom axe, dagger, master bow. All gear gold divines. when I use rally it always brings me to full hp. I *can* use it to outheal planar imhibitor blue phase tho. Save rend for that final oh *** moment at the end. But if you miss a bladecloak or a restoring focus it's gf. And a dps loss. Use carve to build ulti to 205, proc kena, use flury to empower rend. Master bow will empower it firther so you're adding like 3.3k wd just to rend on top of vicious buff.

Remember rune+cloak reduces aoe damage 28%

Recovering life is easy. Just don't eat 1 shots.

The part I bolded, so two ticks? I thought vigour ticked once per second (might be wrong on that) 5 ticks total or maybe I got that part wrong then 9k heal is definitely doable per second.
I know I've seen ticks on myself over 5k but from the way you worded it, it sounded like you was saying you got/gave out a 9k tick.

Nonetheless on topic I agree with you, I'd rather have a healer like you and just shred the dungeon with DPS instead of the majority of healers (not really needed in most 4 man dungeons).

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · February 2017

Also I know your a skilled player based on some of your previous posts so I'm not doubting any of that side, just the 9k ticks is all. But if it ticks twice per second then I understand that.

DragonBound · February 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

If you are CP160 as DPS role for Vet Cradle of Shadows, it's pretty much going to be a 100% guaranteed insta-kick. That dungeon is difficult even for max CP characters, and your meager DPS will just cause group wipes repeatedly due to overwhelming boss mechanics.

Selene's is much, much easier. You should be able to do it. The only problem will be the second form of the last boss, as this can be very hard for a low DPS group. However, if you have a solid 600 CP DPS in the group, they can carry you through it.

You know what would solve this issue is if we can get some recommended vet levels for each dungeon, and maybe some kind of restriction, it is not fair to players who have been carried and did not realize they where in the first place, it is also wasting their time.

DragonBound · February 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

If you are CP160 as DPS role for Vet Cradle of Shadows, it's pretty much going to be a 100% guaranteed insta-kick. That dungeon is difficult even for max CP characters, and your meager DPS will just cause group wipes repeatedly due to overwhelming boss mechanics.

Selene's is much, much easier. You should be able to do it. The only problem will be the second form of the last boss, as this can be very hard for a low DPS group. However, if you have a solid 600 CP DPS in the group, they can carry you through it.

You know what would solve this issue is if we can get some recommended vet levels for each dungeon, and maybe some kind of restriction, it is not fair to players who have been carried and did not realize they where in the first place, it is also wasting their time.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

Just Elite's thinking they can kick people as they please. Personally I think these players should get soft-banned for this kind of behaviour. CP discrimination should be a reportable offense.

If you make your own group then you have full-right to kick someone based on their CP, but if you're using the dungeon finder tool, you have no right whatsoever to kick anybody based on their CP. If they suck, sure, but let them show you what they can do before you kick them.

Lmao cp discrimination should be reportable? Lol. Obviously you have every right to kick someone, since the feature is in the game. It takes a majority vote so if you get kicked then the rest of your group didn't want you there. I wouldn't want to be in a group with people who didn't want me there. Of course I wouldn't keep queueing for something if I was repeatedly getting kicked. Funny how I have never been kicked from a dungeon, wonder why.

It is so easy to get cp in this game, stop being lazy and go grind some cp out.

Nope, allot of people just abuse the vote system this includes the people in the group lol. And it is time consuming not lazy, the only people who say this do not work many hours of the day and likely a self entitled brat living with their parents.

DragonBound · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

We kicked a 55cp DPS out of vCoS and he was pissed. I didn't feel bad about it at all. Told him to come back at the appropriate level.

It takes very little time to go to the first boss and see how they do. If after first boss it is obvious they are not going to do what needs done then just let them know hey we aren't going to get through this. That way if you do end up kicking them at least they got to try and won't have quite so long to wait to try another group if they want.

Havent people realized you should be polite and help people be aware before you kick them? This why you get no drama it has worked for me 99 percent of the time, it is not that hard to be civilized about it, do not just randomly kick them.